I'm not arguing at all, Joe, and not upset in the least. I was just trying to get to the root of what's going on. I even toyed with the bus idea myself, for a while. So I can't see why you're calling Siegfrieds idea (and my endorsement) "crotchety and anti-social". What gives? Please accept my personal apology if I offended you. SLAS spends quite a bit of money on it's members. SPOC is a prime example, and during the observing season, anyone can train and use it who has the time. Club outings are a great idea. A vote sounds like the perfect way to settle it, framed constitutionally. Just remember that the more diverse a club is, the less likely it will be to come up with an idea that will garner a majority vote. And a negative response doesn't mean it's a bad idea, it just means that it's not practical in light of the membership-at-large.