Daniel, Thank you for your response, I can certainly understand where you're coming from and appreciate the fact that it would be undesirable to allow the mission and image of SLAS to stray into the realm of myth. After all, SLAS (and organizations like it), is a group whose members are often trusted by the media and visiting public to comment on and dispel popular, but utterly pseudoscientific, theories like all the 2012 nonsense. Though I love a good story, I tend to favor a skeptical view--"extraordinary claims do require extraordinary evidence." Mike, I also appreciated your reply. I think it's healthy (and often intellectually illuminating), to acknowledge, discuss, and investigate experiences that are out of the ordinary, and I personally enjoy the dimension and human perspective that all kinds of stories can give to the experience of participating in a scientific endeavor. As frequently happens with me, I am persuaded by aspects of both viewpoints. Anyway, I hope my original comment (and, in fact, the first comment I've ever posted on Utah Astronomy), didn't stir up any hard feelings. Since I've relocated to Ohio, I am no longer even a member of SLAS (though I miss it terribly), so my input shouldn't figure in to any decisions. Thanks again Ann for the historical work. And thanks to all for sharing your interesting perspectives. ~Kelly On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 1:21 PM, <utah-astronomy-request@mailman.xmission.com
wrote:
Send Utah-Astronomy mailing list submissions to utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to utah-astronomy-request@mailman.xmission.com
You can reach the person managing the list at utah-astronomy-owner@mailman.xmission.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Utah-Astronomy digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Lot of stuff up there. (Hutchings, Mat) 2. Re: SLAS history document (daniel turner) 3. Re: SLAS history document (Michael Wells)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 11:13:03 -0500 From: "Hutchings, Mat" <mat.hutchings@siemens.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Lot of stuff up there. Message-ID: < B78508FE0D7AB04FB3770D1E9283445B685FDB86C4@USMLVA0E945MSX.ww017.siemens.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Commonwealth of Independent States. Mainly countries that made up the former Soviet Republic.
Mat
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of erikhansen@thebluezone.net Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 11:01 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Lot of stuff up there.
Who is CIS?
Like the subject line says, there's a lot of stuff up there.
patrick
Objects being tracked on Earth orbit as of 3 October 2012.
Country Payloads Debris Total CHINA. 131. 3595. 3726 CIS. 1421. 4774. 6195 ESA. 41. 45. 86 FRANCE. 55. 437. 492 INDIA. 48. 127. 175 JAPAN. 121. 78. 199 USA. 1123. 3823. 4946 OTHER. 597. 114. 711 TOTAL. 3537. 12993. 16530
Source: Orbital Debris Quarterly Newsletter, Volume 16, Issue 4, October 2012. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy
club.
To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club.
To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
This message and any attachments are solely for the use of intended recipients. The information contained herein may include trade secrets, protected health or personal information, privileged or otherwise confidential information. Unauthorized review, forwarding, printing, copying, distributing, or using such information is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not an intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you received this email in error, and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email and any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender and delete the message and any attachment from your system. Thank you for your cooperation
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 09:43:44 -0800 (PST) From: daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document Message-ID: <1352223824.21436.YahooMailNeo@web163805.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Ann and Kelly: ? Whether anyone likes it or not, Astronomy is a science and not one of the humanities.? It's about discovering the truth about the world we live in and dispelling myths, no matter how popular they are.? I don't see the UFO stories as quaint or charming.? They come from the world of conspiracy theories and just plain goofball ideas.? We open the door on UFO's and we have to also hear long monologues about how "Bush brought down the towers",? "Einstein is all wrong about space travel",? "Evolution is a atheist conspiracy" and "Cigarettes don't cause cancer".? I've endured this drivel at SLAS events because there is a core of people there who really are interested in the science.? I've also seen dozens of people wander away from SLAS because they don't want to listen to this constant rain of tripe.? These people we are losing tend to be the most intelligent, educated, and our club is greatly diminished by their departure.?? It's not just good clean fun.? It's a big problem. ? ? Daniel Turner ?
________________________________ From: Ann Blanchard <a.blanchard@ugs.utah.edu> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2012 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document
I'm open to the stories.? The hard part is prying them out of people.? Dave Berenson is a font of information and has been promising to write up some of his adventures for years, but . . . So anything folks want to e-mail me, tell me about, whatever, I'm happy to work on including more.? The personal anecdotes are my favorite too.?
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Ricks Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 7:48 AM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document
Wow! This must have taken loads of time. I loved reading through this...especially the personal anecdotes...many of them made me laugh out loud! If anything I'd enjoy seeing more of these added.
I'm wondering if it might be possible to include a couple of the club member's infamous UFO stories...or is this too controversial to be included? While I was a member of SLAS, I remember these curious stories incidents referred to from time to time, and I always felt that their presence created a mysterious sort of undertone to many SLAS gatherings. If club romances can be accounted for, why not UFOs? Just an idea.
~Kelly Ricks _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club.
To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club.
To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 11:20:13 -0700 From: Michael Wells <eyeonyouproductions@gmail.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document Message-ID: < CADxGsn5qqPxU9TPrxSd9_cyGK3Dmj_w05eusxYAEX0gPWABh+Q@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Sorry, I have to disagree here, for a couple of reasons.
First, since UFO means 'Unidentified Flying Object', if it's flying, and people can't figure out what it is, it's a UFO. Since people are into studying the sky here, it would seem natural to include stories where they saw something while out stargazing, and can't figure out what it is.
Second, since nobody has ever disproven the existence of things like alien visitors(The common explanation for a UFO, as defined above), it is not "non-scientific" to ask questions about what they are.
Third, anecdotes are just as important as a dry recitation of facts. Stories about your skywatching experience outside of journals about the exact time you saw Jupiter, how log it was visible, etc. are fine, but a working history that people are going to want to read needs to include their experiences outside of the log-keeping. these might include run-ins with Park Rangers, encounters with bears or moose, getting out on a clear night, setting everything up, and immediately having a storm roll in. They might also include UFO stories, sure, but that is the experience of the person telling the story, all inclusive, and it's still a part of the skywatching experience.
This is just my own opinion, and I'm not a trained scientist, but as I remember, investigating something that has not been disproven is a part of science. Besides, history should be fun, as well as informative.
Mike Wells
On Tue, Nov 6, 2012 at 10:43 AM, daniel turner <outwest112@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ann and Kelly:
Whether anyone likes it or not, Astronomy is a science and not one of the humanities. It's about discovering the truth about the world we live in and dispelling myths, no matter how popular they are. I don't see the UFO stories as quaint or charming. They come from the world of conspiracy theories and just plain goofball ideas. We open the door on UFO's and we have to also hear long monologues about how "Bush brought down the towers", "Einstein is all wrong about space travel", "Evolution is a atheist conspiracy" and "Cigarettes don't cause cancer". I've endured this drivel at SLAS events because there is a core of people there who really are interested in the science. I've also seen dozens of people wander away from SLAS because they don't want to listen to this constant rain of tripe. These people we are losing tend to be the most intelligent, educated, and our club is greatly diminished by their departure. It's not just good clean fun. It's a big problem.
Daniel Turner
________________________________ From: Ann Blanchard <a.blanchard@ugs.utah.edu> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2012 8:24 AM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document
I'm open to the stories. The hard part is prying them out of people. Dave Berenson is a font of information and has been promising to write up some of his adventures for years, but . . . So anything folks want to e-mail me, tell me about, whatever, I'm happy to work on including more. The personal anecdotes are my favorite too.
-----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto: utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Ricks Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2012 7:48 AM To: utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS history document
Wow! This must have taken loads of time. I loved reading through this...especially the personal anecdotes...many of them made me laugh out loud! If anything I'd enjoy seeing more of these added.
I'm wondering if it might be possible to include a couple of the club member's infamous UFO stories...or is this too controversial to be included? While I was a member of SLAS, I remember these curious stories incidents referred to from time to time, and I always felt that their presence created a mysterious sort of undertone to many SLAS gatherings. If club romances can be accounted for, why not UFOs? Just an idea.
~Kelly Ricks _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club.
To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club.
To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club.
To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php
End of Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 117, Issue 11 ***********************************************