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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 118, Issue 19 RE: Americanized System
by Joe Bauman 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

Well, I said I wouldn't comment again but cannot keep my mouth shut. I am aware of two -liter soft drink bottles and altimeters with metric units. But do you really think we will ever make the change where it's most important for most Americans, distance measurmunts? I just doubt it. ------------------------------ On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 8:06 AM MST John R. Peterson wrote: >Thanks you, Michael, for the concise summary. I'd like to add to that by saying, the process of conversion is already well in in place here in the World's biggest economy (the real recent that it's taking so long). The last time I looked, almost EVERY item in the grocery store has its label showing its weight or volume in both English (lbs or oz, pts. or fl. oz., for example) and metric (grams, although g and kg are each actually mass and not weight) and mL or cc. By the way, most people can get a handle on grams and kilograms being mass and newtons being weight, but we tend to use only pounds, a unit of weight in the English system. The English unit of mass is the slug, which someone did mention without explanation a few messages back. >John R. Peterson > > >> >>Message: 2 >>Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2012 00:33:57 -0700 >>From: Michael Wells <eyeonyouproductions(a)gmail.com> >>To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> >>Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT, metrics -- was Re: Patrick scores >> again! >>Message-ID: >> <CADxGsn7N6hUYSZOrY676wfJ5ygSZXCAfUROE8khigCxCM6VV+g(a)mail.gmail.com> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >>Yes I can, because there was a plan in place to do it gradually, not like >>there was a switch that they were going to throw overnight. People were >>just being stubborn. I heard as a child adults all over the place talking >>exactly like you are now. They weren't going to change not because it was >>hard, or that we already had a system in place, but because they were not >>going to let anyone "tell" them what to do. This wasn't a foreign >>government or the UN forcing us, this was our government trying to drag us >>closer to the 21st century, and we held our threatened to hold our breath >>until we turned blue. >> >>The SAE system is obsolete, exactly like the 8-Track, the cassette tape, >>the wax cylinder, the Victrola, the floppy disk and the VHS tape(Won't say >>video tape because it is still a valid storage format). >> >>As for an example of how it is beneficial, I will once again go back to >>cooking as an example, because it's an easy one. It shows up all of the >>time, and everyone encounters it. Recipes constantly call for 1/2 cup of >>one ingredient, 2 ounces of another, a pint of something else, maybe a >>gallon of another. You end up all over the place, trying to figure out what >>is what. Also, when a recipe calls for 2 cups of something, 90% of the >>people don't know that that is a pint, 2 pints in a quart, and 4 quarts in >>a gallon. If they've only got measuring cups, that gallon gets pretty >>tedious and requires a trip to the internet, and a bunch of math. Put it in >>the metric system, and you have a liter as your standard for liquid >>measure. 1 deciliter is a tenth of that, a centiliter one hundredth of it. >>10 liters is a decaliter, and 1000 liters is a kiloliter. >> >>Here's the wonderful SAE system for length: >>The base unit is the inch >>12 inches in a foot(Anything smaller has to be fractions of an inch) >>3 feet in a yard >>5,280 feet in a mile >>How many inches in a mile, without using a calculator, writing it down, or >>doing the math in your head? >> >>Now the metric system, a nice beautiful base-10 system with all of the same >>prefixes whether you are measuring volume, distance or weight. >>The base unit is the meter. >>1/100th of that is a centimeter >>1,000 meters in a kilometer >>So, same rules, how many centimeters in a kilometer? >>100,000, it's that easy. >> >>SAE for volume: >>Base unit is an ounce(Anything smaller is fractions of an ounce) >>4 ounces is a cup >>4 cups in a pint >>2 pints in a quart >>4 quarts in a gallon >>Same rules, how many ounces in a gallon? >> >>Metric: >>Base unit is the liter >>1/100th of that is the centiliter >>1000 liters is a kiloliter >>How many centiliters in a kiloliter? >>100,000 >> >>To sum this up, there is no rhyme nor reason to the SAE system. The metric >>system is base 10, uses the same prefix, no matter the medium being >>measured, and can go infinitesimally small or extremely large, and all >>anyone has to know is where the particular latin prefix falls on the scale. >> >>Yes, it's people being stubborn, and it should have happend years ago. It's >>ludicrous to still use the SAE system when it actually makes no sense >>whatsoever. Teaching would be streamlined, and work would be improved. >>Hell, even when I worked graphic design, we had to print up conversion >>charts between fractions and decimal equivalents, because 1/64th gets >>pretty hard to figure out in your head. Doing t all decimally would >>eliminate that. >> >> >>On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 11:37 PM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> wrote: >> >> Michael, you can't say people not wanting to change miles to kilometers, >> feet to meters, inches to centimeters, etc., is equivalent to your stepsons >> refusing to do something just to be contrary. And are you saying we should >> get in trouble when we stick to our native measurements? Peer pressure from >> people who don't know what they're takig about -- I don't understand that >> comment. Please give me a specific example. So here's a challenge: show how >> the life of an ordinary person -- not a doctor working in nuclear medicine >> -- would improve if he were forced to switch to a metric system. Would the >> difficulty be worth any advantage to him? I can easily see the trouble of >> trying to learn new units, but I certainly don't see any advantage for an >> ordinary person forced to change. Who's being contrary -- the people who >> prefer the system they grew up with, or the people who are trying to force >> difficult, non-beneficial changes on them? Thanks, Joe >> >> >> >> > >_______________________________________________ >Utah-Astronomy mailing list >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > >Send messages to the list to >Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > >The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. > >To unsubscribe go to: >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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Comics
by D P Pierce 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

http://www.gocomics.com/brewsterrockit Deloy

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Patrick scores again!
by Joe Bauman 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

Oh Patrick, I don't think we're being very awful with this one .... ------------------------------ On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 4:24 PM MST Kim Hyatt wrote: >When the Intelligent Designer created the universe 6,000 years ago, He (not >She or It) did so using English units and made sure that the climate would >remain unchangeable until the world ends - in 12 days. > >You lose, Patrick. > >Kim > >Patrick wrote [clipped]: > >At any rate, I guess there are now three things we need to shy away from on >Utah-Astronomy. > >1: Climate change >2: Creationism >3) Units of measure > > > >_______________________________________________ >Utah-Astronomy mailing list >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > >Send messages to the list to >Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > >The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. > >To unsubscribe go to: >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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galaxies in the mist
by Gary Vardon 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

Try looking at astronomy photographs for galaxies that can be seen in background. The famous Hubble photograph of deep space is an example of doing this. Doing this makes one appreciate the infinite size of the universe. Sincerely, Gary Vardon The book DO It Right will help you understand vital ideas leading to your greater success. GO to PublishAmerica.com Consulting For Profit is also available. Learn how to make money as a consultant. Jokes? is a wild and witty look at the world and the mbook Marketing can show you how to make good money selling goods and services. All books are available at PublishAmerica.com

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galaxies in the mist
by Gary Vardon 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

Try looking at astronomy photographs for galaxies that can be seen in background. The famous Hubble photograph of deep space is an example of doing this. Doing this makes one appreciate the infinite size of the universe. Sincerely, Gary Vardon The book DO It Right will help you understand vital ideas leading to your greater success. GO to PublishAmerica.com Consulting For Profit is also available. Learn how to make money as a consultant. Jokes? is a wild and witty look at the world and the mbook Marketing can show you how to make good money selling goods and services. All books are available at PublishAmerica.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Weights and Measures
by Michael Wells 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

Jeeps are a lot of fun. I've owned 3, and my biggest repairs were a transmission on one and a clutch on the other. Lots of small things like water pumps, alternators, and a ton of u-joints on my CJ, but my current Cherokee is the cheapest maintenance car in the household right now, and when I get my new(new to me, anyway) CJ in the next year, the pile of possible add ons available could fill my entire house. I love them... -------- Original message -------- From: Kim Hyatt <kimharch(a)cut.net> Date: To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Weights and Measures I feel your pain. And my Snapon boxes are twice as heavy as they need to be, with twice the tools. I've owned two Jeeps but by then I gave up on trying myself to repair much more than replacing broken lamps and wiper blades. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Michael Wells Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 10:38 AM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Weights and Measures Try having a Jeep. I'm used to the star-patterned Torx bits, and actually prefer them, but on my '92 Cherokee I have both SAE AND metric connectors on it. My '77 was at least consistent. Really makes it fun. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Weights and Measures
by Michael Wells 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

Try having a Jeep. I'm used to the star-patterned Torx bits, and actually prefer them, but on my '92 Cherokee I have both SAE AND metric connectors on it. My '77 was at least consistent. Really makes it fun. -------- Original message -------- From: Kim Hyatt <kimharch(a)cut.net> Date: To: 'Utah Astronomy' <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Weights and Measures Mind if I chip in? I've worked extensively in both the automotive industry and in the construction industry, arguably the two largest drivers of our economy. As far back as 1976 when I began working in automotive shops there was much confusion in units used. Some bolts were metric sizes and some were SAE, and still are. Every mechanic has to have two sets of wrenches of every type. In construction, only the Corps of Engineers tried (I believe unsuccessfully) to convert to metric. In the automotive industry the change wouldn't be as much an issue, inasmuch as many cars and parts are manufactured overseas using metric units anyway. And once you've tooled-up a plant for metric sizes it isn't a big deal. But in the construction industry the problem is enormous. Imagine the millions of products, specifications and drawing standards that must change. The inertia is staggering. The only progress that I have seen is that standard specifications and manufacturers' data now usually give dimensions, quantities, etc. in both metric and English units. I simply ignore the metric units - NO one I've ever met uses them. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dave Gary Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:03 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Weights and Measures My last comment on the subject. It has been enjoyable reading everyone's take on this topic. It reminds me of the quandary (at least for them) that Great Britain faced in not converting to the Gregorian calendar. Finally, convenience trumped tradition.hard to do with the Brits. Hey, maybe in another 100 years or so we Americans will see the light in terms of the benefits of the metric system. I'm not holding my breath, however. Dave _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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Weights and Measures
by Dave Gary 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

My last comment on the subject. It has been enjoyable reading everyone’s take on this topic. It reminds me of the quandary (at least for them) that Great Britain faced in not converting to the Gregorian calendar. Finally, convenience trumped tradition…hard to do with the Brits. Hey, maybe in another 100 years or so we Americans will see the light in terms of the benefits of the metric system. I’m not holding my breath, however. Dave

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT, metrics -- was Re: Patrick scores again!
by Michael Wells 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

I think it would be a cheap and successful changeover if it was done 180 degrees from now. Right now we have the numbers listed as SAE first, with metric hidden below like the embarrassing stepchild. Also, everyone defaults to listing things in SAE, rather than metric. Changed the labeling to have the metric measurement first, and part of your job is done. All that is left is to get the companies to start using metrics in their commercials, catalogs and documentation. People will learn it through necessity, and still have a fall-back. -------- Original message -------- From: Scott Catron <zaui(a)yahoo.com> Date: To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] OT, metrics -- was Re: Patrick scores again! I wouldn't mind going metric, but then I've been through 7 years of post-secondary chemistry classes, and that's all we work with. But I need to know the "normal" units also in my work at a chemical company, because stuff is packaged and sold in containers measured in gallons. Of course, we buy stuff from overseas in 25 kg bags, which we record as 55.115 pounds our inventory system. A couple problems I've noticed with the SAE system is also with cooking - when a recipe calls for ounces of something and you're not sure if it's weight or volume. I've also noticed unit confusion with nutritional information on food labels. Sometime the serving size on the label is stated in different units then what the package is sold as, so it's not clear how many servings are in a package. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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Where can I get End of the World Insurance?
by jcarman6＠q.com 09 Dec '12

09 Dec '12

LMAO. If I can take the million with me to the other side, I'm taking MY Brandt refractor with me too. But I can't fault ya for trying :) I hear tell Pearly Gate Road doesn't have any street lights. In fact, heaven has no light pollution of any kind. Now that will be some viewing. There's also a rumor that Carl Sagan and a few other astronomical illuminaries have formed their own astronomical society, you can be sure I will join and attend all meetings :)

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