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Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS meeting?
by RStmarie＠aol.com 26 Mar '03

26 Mar '03

I've really been enjoying the spirited, yet well behaved, verbal duel between Kim and Chuck! It is great, back and forth. Now I have to chime in. Don't you think that for most of human history men, women, and children ended each day by sitting around a fire, eating dinner, talking, and watching the stars come out? Don't you think there is ample evidence that early man noticed the stars change position a bit each night, and noticed that some (the planets) seemed to move quite a bit, and that they all seemed to move in concert with the seasons? In trying to reconcile what they saw with the rest of their lives they (we) probably discovered (invented) time keeping, science, and religion. Don't you think that process is worth investigation? I know the speaker the other night was headed off into "Art Bell" territory, but don't you think it warrants investigation? Maybe? Chuck, I don't think Einstein ever said, "Its all relative." He did say, "> The important thing is not to stop questioning." and > >> "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the >> source of all true art and science." and last but not least, Joe Theisman said, "> Nobody in the game of football > should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein." Joe > was so right.

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS meeting?
by RStmarie＠aol.com 26 Mar '03

26 Mar '03

Hey, my ancestors came from the stars....;-)

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS meeting?
by Kim Hyatt 26 Mar '03

26 Mar '03

Yeah, it's been fun. To each his/her own. One problem with archaeoastronomy is the unknowable. There's an awful lot of it. Too many people who do study the field do not acknowledge that fact. We can speculate about our ancestors, but maybe most never paid attention to the stars - who knows? One of my favorite quotes: "You have flies in your eyes." -Yossarian

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS meeting?
by Kim Hyatt 26 Mar '03

26 Mar '03

Chuck, it seems to me that to be consistent, one would have to take the same kind of position on any study of the past. I don't know if that is your view - if so, forgive me but it seems more than a little narrow-minded. I feel about sports the way you do about archaeoastronomy. I find NO merit in sports, "professional" or otherwise. Yet I have to acknowledge that they are a fact of life. Just not my life. I hope I didn't offend anyone in my last message - didn't mean to. I really would like to have many more SLAS members share their talents, especially if they feel that club presentations aren't of much value. We always hear from the same few folks (including myself). Since I don't want to be the object of so much brutal criticism, maybe I won't make anymore presentations at SLAS meetings. (kidding...maybe)

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS meeting?
by Kim Hyatt 26 Mar '03

26 Mar '03

Unfortunately, while we may have evidence that ancient peoples made specific observations of the sky, much of it gets passed on to us in the form of fortune-telling, messages from deity, ritual, rock art, myth, legend, etc. I personally find it very interesting - a sort of detective story - to sort out the science and fact from such things. And, I know that in some cases it is possible. However, I acknowledge that in many more cases it is not possible to do so. We all have ancient roots - why not try to understand them a little better? I do not think that this is inappropriate for an astronomy club, any more than I think it would be inappropriate to listen to a lecture on other (modern) dead astronomers. I, too would like to see others, especially anyone who has ever criticized the Board or its members for the selection of speakers and/or topics, either make a presentation on a topic they think is appropriate or to find a speaker to do the same. IT AIN'T EASY FOLKS. (Yes, that was shouting.) -----Original Message----- Kim, I would argue that ancient astronomy, in the form of fortune-telling, messages from deity, ritual, etc., has no relation to modern astronomy and is better suited to a sociology, history, or anthropology group.

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS meeting?
by Warner, Kathleen M. 26 Mar '03

26 Mar '03

I have to agree with Kim personally. I'm sorry I had to miss the meeting last night, it sounds like it was really interesting. I have this thing about not taking my new babies out in public before they are 6 weeks old though - better safe than sorry when it comes to germs. -----Original Message----- From: Hyatt, Kim Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 14:36 To: 'Astronomy in Utah' Subject: RE: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS meeting? Unfortunately, while we may have evidence that ancient peoples made specific observations of the sky, much of it gets passed on to us in the form of fortune-telling, messages from deity, ritual, rock art, myth, legend, etc. I personally find it very interesting - a sort of detective story - to sort out the science and fact from such things. And, I know that in some cases it is possible. However, I acknowledge that in many more cases it is not possible to do so. We all have ancient roots - why not try to understand them a little better? I do not think that this is inappropriate for an astronomy club, any more than I think it would be inappropriate to listen to a lecture on other (modern) dead astronomers. I, too would like to see others, especially anyone who has ever criticized the Board or its members for the selection of speakers and/or topics, either make a presentation on a topic they think is appropriate or to find a speaker to do the same. IT AIN'T EASY FOLKS. (Yes, that was shouting.) -----Original Message----- Kim, I would argue that ancient astronomy, in the form of fortune-telling, messages from deity, ritual, etc., has no relation to modern astronomy and is better suited to a sociology, history, or anthropology group. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS meeting?
by Kim Hyatt 26 Mar '03

26 Mar '03

I might have missed something. Why is it "inappropriate" and "off topic" for amateur astronomers (or professionals, for that matter) to discuss ancient origins of astronomy? As for the assertion that such things have nothing to do with modern astronomy, I offer two observations: (1) Most of our constellations and star names have roots in prehistory - we don't even know anymore how to pronounce many names they are so old. Those who star-hop their way to observe objects in the night sky are quite literally treading ancient (and to some, sacred) ground (or space). (2) Ancient "astronomers" created calendrical systems far more sophisticated than those in modern use. Our own Gregorian calendar has roots in astronomy. "It's only a club..." -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Hards [mailto:chuckhards@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 1:34 PM To: Astronomy in Utah Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS meeting? Oh, there most certainly IS a God, and He works within the laws of physics, chemistry, and biology that He Himself designed and set in motion. "Whatever gets you through the night" -John Lennon WAY, WAY off-topic. C. --- Jim Gibson <xajax99(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > I rather enjoyed Dr. Pratt's presentation. I heard > more mythology than theology which didn't bother me. > I have been interested in Mesoamerica and I have > studied the Mayan calendar before as many have. > Those who have had an interest in the Mayan culture > know that 13 Rabbit was one of the last great Kings > of Copan. I found it interesting about the names and > birthdays thing. I have also really enjoyed the > book 1Enoch of which I own a copy. It deals with a > good deal of cosmology in the middle chapters and is > one of the books Dr. Pratt mentioned. Having done > that then I feel help me to wade thru the mythology > and more fully enjoy things like the cycle of Venus > that Dr. Pratt explained. That is something I am > going to pay more attention to. > Just as a personal feeling, I enjoyed the idea of > the stars being God's clock. If you don't believe in > God then you let the comment roll off. For me I find > it very stimulating to think that God placed stars > in a certain order just for us to see the patterns > and to set time by. When you view the cosmos and > begin to get an inkling of what it may take to > create a star and to consider such thoughts that God > is mindful of us beyond what you may have ever > imagined, that excites my mind. If you don't believe > in God then you see the natural laws at work in a > very interesting and wonderful way and we are both > edified in our own way. > Jim > > Richard Tenney <retenney(a)yahoo.com> wrote:First let > me say that I appreciate club efforts to > bring in guest speakers, and Dr. Pratt was kind > enough > to spend time with us. > > That said however, I felt like the presentation was > way off topic and inappropriate for an Astronomy > club. > It came across (to me anyway) as a lecture on highly > speculative numerology. I felt like it was not only > bad science (the little that there was), but bad > theology (and I'm also active LDS). While it is > tempting for some to draw conclusions that make us > feel good about our religious beliefs, it's > irresponsible science to ignore the great deal of > evidence that commonly associates the Aztec diety > Quetzalcoatl with brutal human sacrifice, hardly the > kind of thing anyone would equate with Jesus Christ. > > > So while this kind of lecture MIGHT be speculative > fun > for an LDS study group, I felt it was way out of > place > last night. > > My 2 cents, > Rich > > PS, I'm still hoping Dave Bernson does another one > of > his terrific "Deep Sky Wonders" presentations soon. > :-) > > --- RStmarie(a)aol.com wrote: > > I'm just curious what anyone else might have > thought > > of last nights > > presentation? I was interested in the material the > > speaker wanted to present > > but disappointed in the delivery (or lack there > of). > > Bob St. Marie > > > _______________________________________________ > > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, > live on your desktop! > http://platinum.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, > live on your desktop!> _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS suggestion
by Warner, Kathleen M. 26 Mar '03

26 Mar '03

Yes Rich that can be easily done. The board members have the ability to add, delete and edit events on the web calendar, so any of them can go in and update the meeting details. I think its just a matter of getting the new board members into the habit at this point. I generally bug the prez about those meeting topic details monthly if necessary, as Siegfried and Dave can attest to, I just didn't do it for March. -----Original Message----- From: Richard Tenney [mailto:retenney@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 14:05o To: Utah-Astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS suggestionn I recognize that you can't please everyone with any given topic that might be chosen for a SLAS meeting, though some topics are certainly more appropriate and relevant than others. My suggestion/request to the current board is this: If at all possible, could an agenda be published to the SLAS website at least a few days before the next SLAS meeting to allow those of us like myself who travel a fair distance to get downtown to decide ahead of time whether or not the meeting plan is of sufficient interest to warrant the trip? In the case of Dr. Platt, I recognize that for some this was interesting and seemed relevant; for me it was neither; my evening last night could have been better spent elsewhere. Also, can someone tell me who (if anyone) has been tasked to explore the acquisition of a laptop computer for the club (to drive the club's digital projector)? I would be willing to do some looking into this if the board is interested in my help. Thanks, Rich

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS meeting?
by Chuck Hards 26 Mar '03

26 Mar '03

Oh, there most certainly IS a God, and He works within the laws of physics, chemistry, and biology that He Himself designed and set in motion. "Whatever gets you through the night" -John Lennon WAY, WAY off-topic. C. --- Jim Gibson <xajax99(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > I rather enjoyed Dr. Pratts presentation. I heard > more mythology than theology which didnt bother me. > I have been interested in Mesoamerica and I have > studied the Mayan calendar before as many have. > Those who have had an interest in the Mayan culture > know that 13 Rabbit was one of the last great Kings > of Copan. I found it interesting about the names and > birthdays thing. I have also really enjoyed the > book 1Enoch of which I own a copy. It deals with a > good deal of cosmology in the middle chapters and is > one of the books Dr. Pratt mentioned. Having done > that then I feel help me to wade thru the mythology > and more fully enjoy things like the cycle of Venus > that Dr. Pratt explained. That is something I am > going to pay more attention to. > Just as a personal feeling, I enjoyed the idea of > the stars being Gods clock. If you dont believe in > God then you let the comment roll off. For me I find > it very stimulating to think that God placed stars > in a certain order just for us to see the patterns > and to set time by. When you view the cosmos and > begin to get an inkling of what it may take to > create a star and to consider such thoughts that God > is mindful of us beyond what you may have ever > imagined, that excites my mind. If you dont believe > in God then you see the natural laws at work in a > very interesting and wonderful way and we are both > edified in our own way. > Jim > > Richard Tenney <retenney(a)yahoo.com> wrote:First let > me say that I appreciate club efforts to > bring in guest speakers, and Dr. Pratt was kind > enough > to spend time with us. > > That said however, I felt like the presentation was > way off topic and inappropriate for an Astronomy > club. > It came across (to me anyway) as a lecture on highly > speculative numerology. I felt like it was not only > bad science (the little that there was), but bad > theology (and I'm also active LDS). While it is > tempting for some to draw conclusions that make us > feel good about our religious beliefs, it's > irresponsible science to ignore the great deal of > evidence that commonly associates the Aztec diety > Quetzalcoatl with brutal human sacrifice, hardly the > kind of thing anyone would equate with Jesus Christ. > > > So while this kind of lecture MIGHT be speculative > fun > for an LDS study group, I felt it was way out of > place > last night. > > My 2 cents, > Rich > > PS, I'm still hoping Dave Bernson does another one > of > his terrific "Deep Sky Wonders" presentations soon. > :-) > > --- RStmarie(a)aol.com wrote: > > I'm just curious what anyone else might have > thought > > of last nights > > presentation? I was interested in the material the > > speaker wanted to present > > but disappointed in the delivery (or lack there > of). > > Bob St. Marie > > > _______________________________________________ > > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, > live on your desktop! > http://platinum.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, > live on your desktop!> _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com

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SLAS suggestion
by Richard Tenney 26 Mar '03

26 Mar '03

I recognize that you can't please everyone with any given topic that might be chosen for a SLAS meeting, though some topics are certainly more appropriate and relevant than others. My suggestion/request to the current board is this: If at all possible, could an agenda be published to the SLAS website at least a few days before the next SLAS meeting to allow those of us like myself who travel a fair distance to get downtown to decide ahead of time whether or not the meeting plan is of sufficient interest to warrant the trip? In the case of Dr. Platt, I recognize that for some this was interesting and seemed relevant; for me it was neither; my evening last night could have been better spent elsewhere. Also, can someone tell me who (if anyone) has been tasked to explore the acquisition of a laptop computer for the club (to drive the club's digital projector)? I would be willing to do some looking into this if the board is interested in my help. Thanks, Rich __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com

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