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Re: Re: A Cassini editorial
by Chuck Hards 20 Jan '05

20 Jan '05

Bill, I doubt it, the images were available at other sites long before they popped-up on the ESA pages; all the images had to have come through ESA mission controllers originally. UofA had all the raw images posted over the weekend, they are partners in the project to be sure, but if they had them, ESA could easily have posted them too. Could be that ESA Webmasters just don't work weekends...I think Kim was correct; PR just wasn't a top priority for them. Bill wrote: > Was part of the delay and slow release a technical > issue. The probe had > to transmit to the orbiter which relayed the data to > earth. And the > orbiter was on the other side of the planet? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo

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Re: Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 23, Issue 40
by Chuck Hards 20 Jan '05

20 Jan '05

--- utah-astronomy-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > Send Utah-Astronomy mailing list submissions to > utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > utah-astronomy-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > utah-astronomy-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Utah-Astronomy digest..." > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Motion on Titan (Joe Bauman) > 2. Re: A Cassini editorial (Greg Taylor) > 3. Re: Motion on Titan (Jim Stitley) > 4. Re: Lumicon Easy-Guider (Chuck Hards) > 5. ISS Moon transit tomorrow (Friday) (Patrick > Wiggins) > 6. Aurora watch (William Biesele) > 7. Re: Aurora watch (William Biesele) > 8. Re: A Cassini editorial (Chuck Hards) > 9. Re: Re: A Cassini editorial (William Biesele) > > ATTACHMENT part 3.1 message/rfc822 > From: Joe Bauman <bau(a)desnews.com> > To: Utah Astronomy > <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:40:12 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Motion on Titan > > Answer to my own question: On second thought, I bet > they are doubling > photos, showing us two of each image so that the > movie lasts longer. > I saw in another odd blip that it was there for two > frames. So there > is noise on a frame, the frame is shown twice, and > the noise seems to > persist. -- Joe > > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.2 message/rfc822 > From: Greg Taylor <astronomus_maximus(a)yahoo.com> > To: Utah Astronomy > <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:57:08 -0800 (PST) > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] A Cassini editorial > > This editorial was indeed very poorly written, so > much so that I couldn't stand to finish it. I will > however say that I think that the landing on Titan > is a tremendous acheavement and worth every penny. > Also I believe that society should pay for such > endeavors as the mere aquisition of knowledge > bennifits all of human kind. So what if most people > don't appreciate such things? If human kind had > always followed what the masses would have us do (in > terms of scientific learning) we'd still be in the > dark ages. > > Greg Taylor > > > \Comments? > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-05i.html > > Patrick > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: > http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' > > ATTACHMENT part 3.3 message/rfc822 > From: Jim Stitley <sitf2000(a)yahoo.com> > To: Utah Astronomy > <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:58:22 -0800 (PST) > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Motion on Titan > > Joe, > > Hhhhmmmmmmm, what if it were a frog and just jumped > off between frames. Could have!? > Jim > > Joe Bauman <bau(a)desnews.com> wrote: > Could well be. But I'm a little puzzled why some > electronic noise > would persist for more than one frame. In frames 126 > and 127 we see a > little light "frog" show up on a rock, then > disappear. It's an angled > rock about halfway up the frame and about a quarter > of the way in > from the left. There are other examples, but that's > an interesting > one. -- Thanks, Joe > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: > http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > the Perfect You "inside and out" > Insightful Seminars, Workshops & Coaching > Increase SelfAwareness - Know Who You Are...REALLY! > Discover the NEW "Inner You" > http://www.theperfectyou.us > > > > > > > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.4 message/rfc822 > From: Chuck Hards <chuckhards(a)yahoo.com> > To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 14:18:27 -0800 (PST) > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Lumicon Easy-Guider > > > Debbie, if he was using it with a telescope that > would > fit on a Losmandy mount, it was probably too-small, > or > marginal. That parallels my experience. It's a > great > product, but not really suitable for small > apertures. > Even 10" is pushing the small side for the > Easy-Guider. Many (most, it seems) objects just > don't > have a bright enough guide star at the right radial > distance from the center of the field, this can be > frustrating and you can't always compose the shot > just > the way you want it as a result. No competent > reflecting telescope maker would design for 100% > illumination 1" off-axis unless it was a dedicated > imaging system like a Schmidt camera or similar, and > not many amateurs can afford a 12" refractor (except > for Al George, who has a 15"!) > > One a large scope, it would work much better. > > That said, the principle of the off-axis guider is > excellent: Guide with the same optical train as the > one you're imaging with, and you eliminate > differential flexure as a possible source of > trouble. > The bigger the image scale, the greater this problem > can be. > > I use a separate guidescope on my small set-up. > > Debbie wrote: > > > I guy e-mailed me from the Losmandy yahoo group > the > > other day and he had trouble using it and sent it > > back. I'm not considering that option anymore. I'm > > now looking into a guidescope on a dual scope > > platform right now. Thanks for the feedback. > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. > Learn more. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.5 message/rfc822 > From: Patrick Wiggins <paw(a)trilobyte.net> > To: utah astronomy listserve > <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 15:45:19 -0700 > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] ISS Moon transit tomorrow > (Friday) > > Place yourself along the path indicated below > tomorrow between 2041 and > 2042 MST and you've got a pretty good chance of > seeing ISS pass in front > of the Moon. > > Looks like Flying J out by SPOC will be a good place > to observe from. > > Patrick > > > > A - travel distance (kilometers) and direction > B - date > C - time > D - elevation angle of the ISS > E - azimuth angle of the ISS ( + is East from North; > - is W from N) > F - range (kilometers) > G - latitude for observing the transit > H - longitude > I - elevation above Mean Sea Level (meters) > J - how far (kilometers) can I be from the > centerline? > > For other than solar transits: > K - lunar transits: is space station sunlit? > planetary encounters: 1=Mercury; 2=Venus; > 4=Mars; 5=Jupiter; 6=Saturn > L - sun elevation angle > M - sun/moon or sun/planet separation angle > > A------- B----- C----- D--- E----- F--- G------- > H-------- I--- J---- K > L---- M---- > 26.2 NW 21 Jan 204130 67.6 119.3 393 40.8243 > -112.4896 1506 1.8 > n -35.2 144.1 > 19.3 NW 21 Jan 204131 67.7 119.4 393 40.7846 > -112.4193 1280 1.8 > n -35.2 144.1 > 12.7 N 21 Jan 204132 67.7 119.4 391 40.7445 > -112.3481 1265 1.8 > n -35.3 144.1 > 7.9 N 21 Jan 204133 67.8 119.4 391 40.7044 > -112.2770 1283 1.8 > n -35.4 144.1 > 7.4 NE 33.35 40.6894 > -112.2501 1.8 > 9.0 E 21 Jan 204134 67.9 119.5 391 40.6618 > -112.2005 2581 1.8 > n -35.4 144.1 > 14.3 E 21 Jan 204135 67.9 119.5 391 40.6228 > -112.1325 1890 1.8 > n -35.5 144.1 > 21.1 E 21 Jan 204136 68.0 119.5 391 40.5831 > -112.0630 1568 1.8 > n -35.5 144.1 > > > > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.6 message/rfc822 > From: William Biesele <bill(a)biesele.net> > To: Utah Astronomy > <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:15:03 -0700 > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Aurora watch > > > The shock from another X-class solar flare on the > 19th will arrive at > > Earth early on the 21st GMT. > > Reference: > http://www.gi.alaska.edu/cgi-bin/predict.cgi > > And I just started a new job so we can't head out to > Idaho. > > Bill B > > > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.7 message/rfc822 > From: William Biesele <bill(a)biesele.net> > To: Utah Astronomy > <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 20:20:21 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Aurora watch > > And the web cam at Poker flats has the following > message: > "Server Maintenance Information. > Scheduled Server Maintenance. You cannot access > to This Page. > > From: Jan. 21, 2004 18:00 (JST) > To : Jan. 24, 2004 10:00 (JST) > Reason: The rolling blackouts in our facility." > > On Jan 20, 2005, at 8:15 PM, William Biesele wrote: > > >> The shock from another X-class solar flare on > the 19th will arrive > >> at Earth early on the 21st GMT. > > > > Reference: > > http://www.gi.alaska.edu/cgi-bin/predict.cgi > > > > And I just started a new job so we can't head out > to Idaho. > > > > Bill B > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > Visit the Photo Gallery: > http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > > > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.8 message/rfc822 > From: Chuck Hards <chuckhards(a)yahoo.com> > To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 19:53:13 -0800 (PST) > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Re: A Cassini editorial > > Kim, like you I was annoyed and puzzled at the slow > rate that information was being made available at > the > time of the landing. But ESA is a tiny organization > compared to NASA, with a proportionally smaller > budget, and is subservient to more than one > governement which I'm sure is a bureaucratic > nightmare. With a comparatively smaller staff, > "first > things first" was probably the order of the day at > ESA. It's a shame that any dollars going to > research > have to be spent on any PR at all, it's just a drain > on the real work of the institution. > If just the burning desire to know the truth isn't > enough, if we as a species are dependant on "wow" > factors and effective marketing in order to fund > scientific research, then we don't deserve to learn > of > faraway new worlds in the first place. We're just > delaying the inevitable end. "Rome" will fall > again, > for pretty much the same reasons. > > > Kim wrote: > > > I was enormously disappointed at the trickle of > both > > real information and images that came from ESA. > > Despite NASA's many shortcomings, ESA could learn > a > > lot from NASA's public relations team. > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > ATTACHMENT part 3.9 message/rfc822 > From: William Biesele <bill(a)biesele.net> > To: Utah Astronomy > <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Thu, 20 Jan 2005 21:00:59 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Re: A Cassini > editorial > > Was part of the delay and slow release a technical > issue. The probe had > to transmit to the orbiter which relayed the data to > earth. And the > orbiter was on the other side of the planet? > > Just curious > Bill B > On Jan 20, 2005, at 8:53 PM, Chuck Hards wrote: > > > Kim, like you I was annoyed and puzzled at the > slow > > rate that information was being made available at > the > > time of the landing. But ESA is a tiny > organization > > compared to NASA, with a proportionally smaller > > budget, and is subservient to more than one > > governement which I'm sure is a bureaucratic > > nightmare. With a comparatively smaller staff, > "first > > things first" was probably the order of the day at > > ESA. It's a shame that any dollars going to > research > > have to be spent on any PR at all, it's just a > drain > > on the real work of the institution. > > If just the burning desire to know the truth isn't > > enough, if we as a species are dependant on "wow" > > factors and effective marketing in order to fund > > scientific research, then we don't deserve to > learn of > > faraway new worlds in the first place. We're just > > delaying the inevitable end. "Rome" will fall > again, > > for pretty much the same reasons. > > > > > > Kim wrote: > > > >> I was enormously disappointed at the trickle of > both > >> real information and images that came from ESA. > >> Despite NASA's many shortcomings, ESA could learn > a > >> lot from NASA's public relations team. > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________ > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty > viruses. > > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > Visit the Photo Gallery: > http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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Re: A Cassini editorial
by Chuck Hards 20 Jan '05

20 Jan '05

Kim, like you I was annoyed and puzzled at the slow rate that information was being made available at the time of the landing. But ESA is a tiny organization compared to NASA, with a proportionally smaller budget, and is subservient to more than one governement which I'm sure is a bureaucratic nightmare. With a comparatively smaller staff, "first things first" was probably the order of the day at ESA. It's a shame that any dollars going to research have to be spent on any PR at all, it's just a drain on the real work of the institution. If just the burning desire to know the truth isn't enough, if we as a species are dependant on "wow" factors and effective marketing in order to fund scientific research, then we don't deserve to learn of faraway new worlds in the first place. We're just delaying the inevitable end. "Rome" will fall again, for pretty much the same reasons. Kim wrote: > I was enormously disappointed at the trickle of both > real information and images that came from ESA. > Despite NASA's many shortcomings, ESA could learn a > lot from NASA's public relations team. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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Re: Lumicon Easy-Guider
by Chuck Hards 20 Jan '05

20 Jan '05

Debbie, if he was using it with a telescope that would fit on a Losmandy mount, it was probably too-small, or marginal. That parallels my experience. It's a great product, but not really suitable for small apertures. Even 10" is pushing the small side for the Easy-Guider. Many (most, it seems) objects just don't have a bright enough guide star at the right radial distance from the center of the field, this can be frustrating and you can't always compose the shot just the way you want it as a result. No competent reflecting telescope maker would design for 100% illumination 1" off-axis unless it was a dedicated imaging system like a Schmidt camera or similar, and not many amateurs can afford a 12" refractor (except for Al George, who has a 15"!) One a large scope, it would work much better. That said, the principle of the off-axis guider is excellent: Guide with the same optical train as the one you're imaging with, and you eliminate differential flexure as a possible source of trouble. The bigger the image scale, the greater this problem can be. I use a separate guidescope on my small set-up. Debbie wrote: > I guy e-mailed me from the Losmandy yahoo group the > other day and he had trouble using it and sent it > back. I'm not considering that option anymore. I'm > now looking into a guidescope on a dual scope > platform right now. Thanks for the feedback. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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Re: A Cassini editorial
by Chuck Hards 20 Jan '05

20 Jan '05

Originally there wasn't going to be a camera on Huygens; the on-board imager is actually just part of another instrument. Any images at all are just icing on the cake IMO. The public rarely gets anything 100% right, and there are flaws in the way many worthwhile enterprises are funded. Life-saving drugs only get developed if stockholders think they'll get a dividend...planetariums get built only if they generate revenue. At the same time, we spend millions on political ceremonies while children starve. It should come as no surprise that most people, some science writers included, just don't get it, and probably never will. What makes humanity great has nothing at all to do with clever marketing or generating profits, but that's what occupies the minds of the masses. I was initially harsh on the mission, based on "press releases" and editorials, but then I tried to educate myself. Luckily as long as a person is alive there is still room for personal growth. Life is too short to worry about what an ignoramus thinks. Huygens is a remarkable engineering accomplishment and only a fool would try and marginalize any part of it in retrospect; the deed is done and it was magnificent. Looking at the images, just as they are, I am proud to be human being. My 2 cents. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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A Cassini editorial
by Patrick Wiggins 20 Jan '05

20 Jan '05

Comments? http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-05i.html Patrick

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Lumicon Easy-Guider
by astrodeb＠charter.net 20 Jan '05

20 Jan '05

Chuck, I guy e-mailed me from the Losmandy yahoo group the other day and he had trouble using it and sent it back. I'm not considering that option anymore. I'm now looking into a guidescope on a dual scope platform right now. Thanks for the feedback. Debbie > > From: Chuck Hards <chuckhards(a)yahoo.com> > Date: 2005/01/20 Thu AM 11:30:23 MST > To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Lumicon Easy-Guider > > Debbie, I've had the 2" model for decades, used with > my Pentax 35mm SLR. > > The pick-off prism is tiny, and is at the very edge of > the field, best positioned at the top or bottom of a > 35mm frame, not much room on the sides and you may get > a shadow if positioned there. Also in fast systems > the stars are usually comatic out at the very edge of > the field and it can be difficult to guide on a tiny > Vee shape instead of a point. I used the Lumicon > coma-corrector whenever I used the Easy-Guider, but my > autoguider (non-digital type) still had big problems > with the non-round edge-of-field stars. By the time > you add a 2x or 3x Barlow to the pick-off path, the > guide star can be really, really dim. I don't use one > anymore unless I have at least ten or twelve inches of > aperture, and use a separate guide scope most of the > time now. But I'm saving it for that "big scope" in > my backyard observatory when I retire! ;) > > Any help? > > Debbie wrote: > > > Does anybody have any experience with the Lumicon > > Easy Guiders? It seems like an elegant way to do > > guiding without worrying about rings, guidescopes, > > or flexure from guidescopes. Plus, I could add an > > autoguider later on. > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > All your favorites on one personal page ? Try My Yahoo! > http://my.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com >

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Re: Lumicon Easy-Guider
by Chuck Hards 20 Jan '05

20 Jan '05

Debbie, I've had the 2" model for decades, used with my Pentax 35mm SLR. The pick-off prism is tiny, and is at the very edge of the field, best positioned at the top or bottom of a 35mm frame, not much room on the sides and you may get a shadow if positioned there. Also in fast systems the stars are usually comatic out at the very edge of the field and it can be difficult to guide on a tiny Vee shape instead of a point. I used the Lumicon coma-corrector whenever I used the Easy-Guider, but my autoguider (non-digital type) still had big problems with the non-round edge-of-field stars. By the time you add a 2x or 3x Barlow to the pick-off path, the guide star can be really, really dim. I don't use one anymore unless I have at least ten or twelve inches of aperture, and use a separate guide scope most of the time now. But I'm saving it for that "big scope" in my backyard observatory when I retire! ;) Any help? Debbie wrote: > Does anybody have any experience with the Lumicon > Easy Guiders? It seems like an elegant way to do > guiding without worrying about rings, guidescopes, > or flexure from guidescopes. Plus, I could add an > autoguider later on. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com

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Re: Swap meet
by Chuck Hards 20 Jan '05

20 Jan '05

Some post-swap meet sales; the rifle/optics case has been sold, the small equatorial mount has been sold, and the 9x63mm roofs have been sold. The 5" f/9 refractor OTA is still available, I may be able to drop the price a bit, yes the hinged rings/cradle is included. Contact me off-list if interested. Thanks! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - What will yours do? http://my.yahoo.com

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Top-notch Swap Meet
by Chuck Hards 20 Jan '05

20 Jan '05

Many thanks to Jo Grahn and the good people of the Lutheran church. And I felt no compunctions to nail a Thesis to any doors at all! ;) Beautiful building. It's in the part of town I grew up in, yet I've never seen the inside until today. It was a first-class swap meet with first-class people. Good to put faces to names and see old friends again. Glad we could find new homes for all that jun..ah, fine astronomical hardware! Seriously, the wares ranged from the inexpensive to the princely and everything in-between. I wish I could attend weeknight functions regularly and see all of you more often! BTW, the 9x63mm roof binos are still available (Joe, where were you?) along with the 5" f/9 refractor and the earthrise mural. When I got home I saw the little equatorial mount sitting there, as if asking me "why did you forget me?" Someone make me an offer (Charlie, would go great with that little refractor, hint-hint...) Thanks again! Let's do it again this summer, maybe with some barbeque and viewing afterwards. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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