February 2015 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Last night's lecture
by Joe Bauman 11 Dec '18

11 Dec '18

Brent, speaking of the ISS, I have wondered if it could be put into an orbit that continuously cruised between Earth and Mars. When it swung by Mars it could drop off and retrieved crews. I don't see how the radiation would be any worse than the ISS crews are already exposed to. ------------------------------ On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 8:18 AM MST Brent Watson via Utah-Astronomy wrote: >I attended the lecture last night on trajectories. It was really a good, stimulating talk. Thanks for passing the word along. >There were some interesting side comments made about our launch capabilities and the Mars One effort. Mr. Adamo was not at all enthusiastic about the Mars One effort. His opinion is that the effort is doomed because there is not really a way to assure that folks going there would be safe - primarily from radiation. He has done some work with a former flight surgeon on designing a spacecraft to go to Mars. Their result is that in order to get sufficient shielding (using a water jacket), the spacecraft's mass would be around 380 metric tons. That is for a small crew, probably only about 5 members. For a point of comparison, the ISS mass is 400 metric tons. He made the comment that an astronaut who made this trip could only go to space once in this craft, and then he would be at the limit of radiation exposure for his life. The NASA limit is an increased risk of developing cancer of 5%. >That brings us to our current launch capability. Our latest heavy lift rocket - the one we are currently developing - will have the capability to lift 130 metric tons to a very low earth orbit. So low, in fact, that it would burn up at perigee. The Apollo 17 Saturn 5 rocket lifted 140 metric tons into earth orbit -- higher than the new rocket will go. (I am sorry, but my mind will not allow me to recall the name of our currently being designed rocket.) Recall that it took several dozen shuttle launches to assemble the ISS. The Mars One vehicle would require either a hugely more massive launch rocket or a similar effort to build the craft. >As I mentioned, it was a very intellectually stimulating lecture and did involve several ordinary differential equations. They were nicely explained in English by Mr. Adamo. This was the first time I have seen some real math put to Kepler's laws. There were many charts showing what it takes to leave the earth and go to the moon or Mars. It was a very well done lecture. >The above is my recollection of the lecture, and may not actually represent the opinions of Mr. Adamo. It is only my interpretation of what he said. He knows his stuff, that is apparent. Thanks Patrick and Dr. Sohl for passing the word along. >_______________________________________________ >Utah-Astronomy mailing list >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > >Send messages to the list to >Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > >The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. > >To unsubscribe go to: >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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"The Daguerreotypist" -- OT
by Joe Bauman 28 Feb '15

28 Feb '15

Dear Friends, My new novel is now available on Kindle. At the URL I'm enclosing you can see the book, read about the first 10 percent for free on-line, read the review, and download it if you wish. The Kindle site also includes an emulator that you can download free, allowing your PC, iPad or other kind of machine to read Kindle books. Please take a look and spread the word if it's interesting to you. Warning: this is not for Puritanical or highly religious people. Thanks, Joe http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00U20LGTM

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Mr. Spock died this morning. Feeling surprisingly emotional.
by Richard Tenney 27 Feb '15

27 Feb '15

Planning to binge watch Trek this weekend and eat lots of chocolate.

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New Moderator
by CJ Cottrill 26 Feb '15

26 Feb '15

It is my pleasure to announce that Chuck Hards has been selected as the new listmod for the group. Among the candidates, Chuck's resume included previous experience relevant to the position. Even though he incorrectly selected "Star Trek" in the "Star Wars or Star Trek" panel, he was aware of the narwhal's bacon habits, which gave him the clear lead over Leon Schneeburger of West Massillon, Ohio. To be serious though, I am delighted to have Chuck taking the reigns here, as he is well-known to all of you, and is able to walk the talk of the group. I look forward to announcing my new location in Florida later this spring. Thanks to all for your support of the group, and for the good times out at Lakeside and the various remote locations we've met up over the time I've been involved with Utah Astronomy. Best Regards, Chris Cottrill (formerly aka 'Chrismo')

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Moon, Mars and Venus 02/20/2015 ~ 19:30
by Dave Gary 26 Feb '15

26 Feb '15

I need a tripod. Guess that’s the next astronomic purchase. Too old and shaky for the hand-held stuff any longer. > https://www.flickr.com/photos/78046474@N06/sets/72157650930886872/ <https://www.flickr.com/photos/78046474@N06/sets/72157650930886872/>

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Telescope Building
by Brent Watson 25 Feb '15

25 Feb '15

Does the group that home builds telescopes still exist? I was talking to a fellow this morning and he indicated an interest in possibly building a telesscope. Matt?

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] To Call or not to call, that is the question
by Wayne Sumner 25 Feb '15

25 Feb '15

Though it's not entirely a scientific opinion, I believe we still have much to learn about natural law. I read recently about a book published in German in 1931 titled "A Hundred Authors Against Einstein". My point is that consensus is not what determines scientific theory. Scientists must always consider evidence first and be willing to change their theories and opinions as new evidence comes along. We've seen this happen even in our own lifetimes (at least some of us more senior humans) with, for example, the idea that Black Holes can actually exist in nature. Einstein himself did not think they could actually exist in nature despite their being predicted by his theories. Will we someday discover evidence of scientific principles that supersede Relativity just as Relativity superseded Newtonian mechanics? We'll just have to wait and see. Scientists at the Large Hadron Collider are still searching for particles beyond the Higgs Boson. I love living in the golden age of astronomy and physics. -----Original Message----- From: Utah-Astronomy [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of utah-astronomy-request(a)mailman.xmission.com Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2015 8:44 AM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 144, Issue 21 Send Utah-Astronomy mailing list submissions to utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to utah-astronomy-request(a)mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at utah-astronomy-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Utah-Astronomy digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: To call or not to call. That is the question. (Joan Carman) 2. Re: To call or not to call. That is the question. (Wiggins Patrick) 3. Re: To call or not to call. That is the question. (Dave Gary) 4. Re: To call or not to call. That is the question. (M Wilson) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 02:34:13 -0500 (EST) From: Joan Carman <jcarman6(a)q.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] To call or not to call. That is the question. Message-ID: <1280152685.1398624.1424504053062.JavaMail.root(a)md30.quartz.synacor.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I'm with Hawking on this one, and not just as a yes (wo)man. I've wondered along those lines since the made for television "V" movies made way back in the (cough cough) 70s. I swear "Independence Day" stole their alien ships from the V movies. Besides the dangers go back to "pod people." Gah, just remembered the name of the movie "Invasion of the Body Snatchers." We may not be sentient enough for some alien races. Didn't Chuck post about a scifi story where earthlings were "meat" a while ago? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wiggins Patrick" <paw(a)getbeehive.net> To: "Astronomy Utah" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 10:11:26 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] To call or not to call. That is the question. Should We Call the Cosmos Seeking ET? Or Is That Risky? http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/call-cosmos-seeking-risky-2895084 2 Opinions? patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 00:43:12 -0700 From: Wiggins Patrick <paw(a)getbeehive.net> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] To call or not to call. That is the question. Message-ID: <A19A227D-6738-47F7-88CA-B40D94F54D5F(a)getbeehive.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 21 Feb 2015, at 00:34, Joan Carman <jcarman6(a)q.com> wrote: > Didn't Chuck post about a scifi story where earthlings were "meat" a while ago? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIufLRpJYnI Though I prefer "giant bags of mostly water" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAlqp0_a0tE Grins, patrick ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 07:03:58 -0700 From: Dave Gary <davegary(a)me.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] To call or not to call. That is the question. Message-ID: <D012D54E-2BCE-4DFE-B3DB-C69AD5FBD168(a)me.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 With what we know about galactic distances I think it?s a moot point discussing the scenario. It?s akin to asking, ?If I stand on a ladder am I closer to Moon?? Technically, yes, practically, not a chance. Who cares what we beam out into the void. We?ll never get a chance to see these aliens. Likely, our generation would never get a chance to respond to them. People, even the smart ones, fail to remember the enormous distances involved. We?ve had probes out since the late ?70s and they?re just now passing heliopause. I don?t care what intelligence these aliens possess, they will bump up against physical reality just like everyone else. Within space-time nothing travels faster than light. Getting a massive object to that limiting velocity is not possible. Going any slower doesn?t get one very far in this universe. This is assuming we are dealing with the lifetime of a biologic organism, a pretty safe assumption. Let?s see, what multicellular organism on Earth could make an extended voyage (say two to three thousand years with no technical difficulties (highly unlikely), which, by the way, won?t get one very far even at the speed of light). Oh, yeah, a bristlecone pine. The last time I checked bristlecone pines aren?t great conversationalists nor are they concerned about planetary conquest. As a species we?ve never been visited by aliens nor are we likely to. Throw those signals out into space, put the return address. No one will deliver a reply for a very long time, if ever. They, certainly, will not come in person. This is purely an anthropocentric view, but what?s the point of conquering if one can?t be there in person to reap the reward? This would be a real bummer for a ?galactic Viking?. I love science fiction as much as anyone. However, one must always remember, at least as concerns intergalactic or intragalactic space travel, that it is just fiction. Dave > On Feb 21, 2015, at 00:43, Wiggins Patrick <paw(a)getbeehive.net> wrote: > > On 21 Feb 2015, at 00:34, Joan Carman <jcarman6(a)q.com> wrote: > >> Didn't Chuck post about a scifi story where earthlings were "meat" a while ago? > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIufLRpJYnI > > Though I prefer "giant bags of mostly water" > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAlqp0_a0tE > > Grins, > > patrick > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > Send messages to the list to > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > > The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. > > To unsubscribe go to: > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2015 15:43:31 +0000 (UTC) From: M Wilson <astro_outwest(a)yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] To call or not to call. That is the question. Message-ID: <1209568393.5989346.1424533411225.JavaMail.yahoo(a)mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Judging from history amongst us humans here on Earth, it would depend on which had the most advanced civilization. ?If ours was superior, no problem, we would most likely be the ones doing the dominating. ?If their's is the superior one, watch out!! From: Wiggins Patrick <paw(a)getbeehive.net> To: Astronomy Utah <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2015 10:11 PM Subject: [Utah-astronomy] To call or not to call. That is the question. Should We Call the Cosmos Seeking ET? Or Is That Risky? http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/call-cosmos-seeking-risky-2895084 2 Opinions? patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php ------------------------------ End of Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 144, Issue 21 ***********************************************

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Last night's lecture
by Brent Watson 25 Feb '15

25 Feb '15

I attended the lecture last night on trajectories. It was really a good, stimulating talk. Thanks for passing the word along. There were some interesting side comments made about our launch capabilities and the Mars One effort. Mr. Adamo was not at all enthusiastic about the Mars One effort. His opinion is that the effort is doomed because there is not really a way to assure that folks going there would be safe - primarily from radiation. He has done some work with a former flight surgeon on designing a spacecraft to go to Mars. Their result is that in order to get sufficient shielding (using a water jacket), the spacecraft's mass would be around 380 metric tons. That is for a small crew, probably only about 5 members. For a point of comparison, the ISS mass is 400 metric tons. He made the comment that an astronaut who made this trip could only go to space once in this craft, and then he would be at the limit of radiation exposure for his life. The NASA limit is an increased risk of developing cancer of 5%. That brings us to our current launch capability. Our latest heavy lift rocket - the one we are currently developing - will have the capability to lift 130 metric tons to a very low earth orbit. So low, in fact, that it would burn up at perigee. The Apollo 17 Saturn 5 rocket lifted 140 metric tons into earth orbit -- higher than the new rocket will go. (I am sorry, but my mind will not allow me to recall the name of our currently being designed rocket.) Recall that it took several dozen shuttle launches to assemble the ISS. The Mars One vehicle would require either a hugely more massive launch rocket or a similar effort to build the craft. As I mentioned, it was a very intellectually stimulating lecture and did involve several ordinary differential equations. They were nicely explained in English by Mr. Adamo. This was the first time I have seen some real math put to Kepler's laws. There were many charts showing what it takes to leave the earth and go to the moon or Mars. It was a very well done lecture. The above is my recollection of the lecture, and may not actually represent the opinions of Mr. Adamo. It is only my interpretation of what he said. He knows his stuff, that is apparent. Thanks Patrick and Dr. Sohl for passing the word along.

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St George report
by Dunn, David 24 Feb '15

24 Feb '15

OAS had a great time at in St. George last weekend. On Friday night, we hooked up with the St. George club and went to the Virgin site and observed. It was a little windy at first but then became calm and nice. We saw Comet Lovejoy, watched the conjunction of Venus, Mars and the Moon. This was the first time I have been out since my accident and I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed hooking up with Mark and Don and hope we get to do it again next year. Thanks, David Dunn

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Rocket reentry
by Bruce Hugo 24 Feb '15

24 Feb '15

Cool! I'm bummed I missed it! Bruce

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