August 2013 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Galaxy NGC 6946 through smoke and meteriors
by Joe Bauman 17 Aug '13

17 Aug '13

Right, but celectial objects do rotate relative to that line. -- Joe ------------------------------ On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 10:15 AM MDT Chuck Hards wrote: >Brent, I think Joe is just having trouble with polar coordinates. >Joe, a straight line on the sky will always project as a curve on a >2-dimensional computer screen, unless extremely short. > On Aug 17, 2013 9:23 AM, "Brent Watson" <brentjwatson(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > >> Joe, >> >> I think we have to agree to disagree. A perseid can never come from the >> North Star. Likewise, north in your photo will always be north, and the >> direction the galaxy is facing relative to celestial north will not change. >> Your exercise of putting a piece of paper on your screen is not valid >> either. I am at a loss to be able to explain this unless we sit down >> together and use some visual aids, so lets agree to disagree. >> >> Brent >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> >> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 11:38 PM >> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Galaxy NGC 6946 through smoke and meteriors >> >> >> That's just not entirely true, Brent. The galaxy itself appears to rotate >> as the night progresses, even minute by minute, just as the moon ends >> upside down at sunrise from what it was at sunset. Let's remember first >> that the Perseids aren't really coming from Perseus but from a stream of >> dust through which Earth passes. The dust doesn't rotate as Earth does. >> Then do this thought experiment: pretend you're a meteor that's going to >> flash into our atmosphere from the direction of the North Star and cross >> the whole sky. If you do that in the middle of the night you cross a >> certain number of constellations that are up at that time. But if you >> decide to zoom in 12 hours later, during the day, you will cross an >> entirely different set of (unseen to Earthlings) constellations. The entry >> point was the same place and the angle of entry was the same but the >> trajectory crossed entirely different locations. If you vary that by an >> hour instead of half a day you still >> get a different track. A galaxy rotates as it crosses the sky just the way >> the moon does. I got my planetarium program going and I put the edge of a >> piece of paper from NGC6946 to Perseus. Then I advanced the time by half an >> hour. The galaxy rotated considerably in that time while I kept the paper >> pointed at Perseus. In half an hour the direction that the Perseid meteors >> streak across the galaxy changes. -- Joe >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Brent Watson <brentjwatson(a)yahoo.com> >> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 9:31 PM >> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Galaxy NGC 6946 through smoke and meteriors >> >> >> Joe, >> >> The whole sky rotates at the same rate. It rotates very close to 1 hour >> of right ascension per hour of mean solar time, as measured by your watch. >> The angle between the radiant and the galaxy will not change, neglecting >> the movement of the radiant itself. (That movement happens over days, not >> minutes.) Both of those traces cannot be due to Perseid meteors because of >> the angle formed by the two traces. One of them MAY be, but the other is >> certainly not. How does the the line from the radiant intersect NGC 6946 >> as seen on your digital planetarium? Does it pass through at the same >> angle as one of the traces? If not, then both are either sporadic or not >> meteors at all. >> >> Brent >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> >> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 6:09 PM >> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Galaxy NGC 6946 through smoke and meteriors >> >> >> Looking at my computerized planetarium, it's certainly possible to draw a >> radiant from Perseus to NGC 6946 at the time I took the views, about 3:14 >> and 3:44 a.m., respectively, on Wednesday morning. I haven't had time to >> figure it out formally yet, but by running my planetarium program from the >> first to the second time it looks like NGC 6946 revolves about the same >> amount as the difference in the lines in the two subs. Because they are in >> different sections of the sky, the galaxy and the constellation revolve at >> different rates. So unless someone wants to be a lot more scientific about >> calculating >> these things and proves me wrong, I will continue to believe they are both >> Perseids. -- Joe >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards(a)gmail.com> >> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Friday, August 16, 2013 4:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Galaxy NGC 6946 through smoke and meteriors >> >> >> For the meteors to be considered Perseids, they must have radiated from the >> Perseid radiant. They can appear anywhere in the sky, and at any angle >> relative to the observer, but in order to be a member of a given shower, if >> you extend their path backwards across the sky, it must intersect the >> radiant. If it doesn't, it's a sporadic, or a member of a different >> shower. Some showers do overlap their times of activity. >> >> All members of a given shower hit the earth's atmosphere at the same >> angle. They are traveling parallel in space. It just looks different to a >> ground-based observer. >> >> Imagine the radiant as a sort of "vanishing point" in the sky. >> >> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 2:25 PM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> >> wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > >> > I did consult a star atlas ant I think they could be perseids -- >> > meteorites seem to show up at various parts of the sky, not necessarily >> > heading from Perseus directly. It is a wide stream of cometary dust that >> > yge Earth passes through and I reckon that the atmosphere may hit the >> dust >> > grains at various angles. Also saying the tracks look too uniform isn't a >> > good way to judge them when you consider the field of view is tiny -- in >> a >> > larger field they may have been less regular over s lmgrt stretch of >> their >> > entry path. Well, that's my story and I'm stickin' with if! -- Thanks, >> Joe >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 9:48 AM MDT Brent Watson wrote: >> > >> > >Joe, >> > > >> > >They can't both be Perseids. They are coming from different directions. >> > I am not sure where the Perseid radiant is with respect to your >> > photograph, but in fact neither may be a Perseid. Please check the >> > direction of travel. The tracks also look pretty uniform. In fact, >> almost >> > too uniform to be meteors. Are they instead, satellites? >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Utah-Astronomy mailing list >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> >> Send messages to the list to >> Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >> >> The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. >> >> To unsubscribe go to: >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on >> "Unsubscribe or edit options". >> _______________________________________________ >> Utah-Astronomy mailing list >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> >> Send messages to the list to >> Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >> >> The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. >> >> To unsubscribe go to: >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on >> "Unsubscribe or edit options". >> _______________________________________________ >> Utah-Astronomy mailing list >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> >> Send messages to the list to >> Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >> >> The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. >> >> To unsubscribe go to: >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on >> "Unsubscribe or edit options". >> _______________________________________________ >> Utah-Astronomy mailing list >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> >> Send messages to the list to >> Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >> >> The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. >> >> To unsubscribe go to: >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on >> "Unsubscribe or edit options". >> _______________________________________________ >> Utah-Astronomy mailing list >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> >> Send messages to the list to >> Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >> >> The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. >> >> To unsubscribe go to: >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on >> "Unsubscribe or edit options". >> >_______________________________________________ >Utah-Astronomy mailing list >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > >Send messages to the list to >Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > >The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. > >To unsubscribe go to: >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Patch Springs fire updated image
by Kelly Ricks 17 Aug '13

17 Aug '13

Nice shots Patrick! Just a heads up: the second one seems to load upside down. I was wondering if after setting your speed record (wow! and congrats), you were hyped up enough to try loop de loops in your plane...while simultaneously taking photos no less! ~Kelly ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2013 01:22:21 -0600 > From: Patrick Wiggins <paw(a)wirelessbeehive.com> > To: utah astronomy listserve utah astronomy > <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Patch Springs fire updated image > Message-ID: <C740A57D-8DF5-41D0-8548-104655A69D3F(a)wirelessbeehive.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Skies in the Tooele Valley still smokey but improving. > > Suspecting the fire was getting smaller I flew out west yesterday and saw > that it is considerably smaller and less smokey than when I saw it > Wednesday. > > Here's how it looked from the south looking north on Wednesday: > http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/patchsprings20130814.jpg > > And here it is yesterday from the north looking south: > http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/patchsprings20130816.jpg > > The top of the smoke is still way up there. Before taking the picture I'd > made a jump at the Tooele airport where we got out at 13,000 feet above the > ground and we were still in it (on a side note, on that jump I set my > personal vertical speed record of 183 mph <before losing it and flying all > out of control> ) > > So, maybe if the rain holds off the skies will be ok for this evening's > Stansbury Days star party at SPOC. > > patrick > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > > End of Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 126, Issue 76 > *********************************************** >

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Galaxy NGC 6946 through smoke and meteriors
by Joe Bauman 17 Aug '13

17 Aug '13

I did consult a star atlas ant I think they could be perseids -- meteorites seem to show up at various parts of the sky, not necessarily heading from Perseus directly. It is a wide stream of cometary dust that yge Earth passes through and I reckon that the atmosphere may hit the dust grains at various angles. Also saying the tracks look too uniform isn't a good way to judge them when you consider the field of view is tiny -- in a larger field they may have been less regular over s lmgrt stretch of their entry path. Well, that's my story and I'm stickin' with if! -- Thanks, Joe ------------------------------ On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 9:48 AM MDT Brent Watson wrote: >Joe, > >They can't both be Perseids. They are coming from different directions. I am not sure where the Perseid radiant is with respect to your photograph, but in fact neither may be a Perseid. Please check the direction of travel. The tracks also look pretty uniform. In fact, almost too uniform to be meteors. Are they instead, satellites? > >Brent > > >________________________________ > From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> >To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> >Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 10:25 PM >Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Galaxy NGC 6946 through smoke and meteriors > > >Hi Gang, Here are shots I took at Lakeside early Wednesday morning; the captions explain them. > > >http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=5713&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 > >http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=5716&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 > >http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=5719&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 > >Almost nothing but a few bright stars showed up in the blue exposures, thanks to the Patch Springs air filter. > >-- Thanks for looking, Joe >_______________________________________________ >Utah-Astronomy mailing list >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > >Send messages to the list to >Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > >The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. > >To unsubscribe go to: >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options". >_______________________________________________ >Utah-Astronomy mailing list >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > >Send messages to the list to >Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > >The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. > >To unsubscribe go to: >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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Watch a 10 story building maneuver, hover and land
by Patrick Wiggins 17 Aug '13

17 Aug '13

In the latest from SpaceX, they've got their "Grasshopper" maneuvering as well as the previously demonstrated hovering. http://www.spacex.com/news/2013/08/14/grasshopper-100m-lateral-divert-test My question is how long until they start flying people in their "cargo carrying" Falcon 9? Look close at the the payload section and see that it's got windows. Cargo don't need no stinkin' windows... :) patrick

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Patch Springs fire updated image
by Patrick Wiggins 17 Aug '13

17 Aug '13

Skies in the Tooele Valley still smokey but improving. Suspecting the fire was getting smaller I flew out west yesterday and saw that it is considerably smaller and less smokey than when I saw it Wednesday. Here's how it looked from the south looking north on Wednesday: http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/patchsprings20130814.jpg And here it is yesterday from the north looking south: http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/patchsprings20130816.jpg The top of the smoke is still way up there. Before taking the picture I'd made a jump at the Tooele airport where we got out at 13,000 feet above the ground and we were still in it (on a side note, on that jump I set my personal vertical speed record of 183 mph <before losing it and flying all out of control> ) So, maybe if the rain holds off the skies will be ok for this evening's Stansbury Days star party at SPOC. patrick

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Galaxy NGC 6946 through smoke and meteors
by Joe Bauman 16 Aug '13

16 Aug '13

Hi Dave, I just follow the handbox instructions. First I use a compass to get it aligned generally north. Then I level the base of the tripod. Them I turn it on and the system takes a GPS reading and tells me to put the scope in "home" position. It then does a turn and tells me to center the Pole Star without using the handbox. After that it spews to a bright star and tells me to crnter it by using the habfbox. When I do that and press enter, it's aligned -- Joe ------------------------------ On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 4:02 AM MDT Dave Gary wrote: >Nice images, Joe. What technique do you use to polar align your scope. The drift method or iterative alignment? > >Dave >_______________________________________________ >Utah-Astronomy mailing list >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > >Send messages to the list to >Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > >The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. > >To unsubscribe go to: >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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Fire sun
by jcarman6＠q.com 16 Aug '13

16 Aug '13

Hope this link works. Tried photobucket again and had no problem uploading the pictures. Had issues before, about a year ago. This is the wide field view of the sun last night. http://s1245.photobucket.com/user/joancarman/media/IMG_6245.jpg.html#/user/… Have thoroughly read Andrew Young's article about Galileo and viewing the sun. Could not find a fault with it. He explained what happened to me so many years ago on page 4. He does not say you can look at the sun through a telescope safely. He is really arguing against "Never look at the sun - ever." Its possible when the sun is low on the horizon - like watching sunsets. He claims he is an astronomer.

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Watch a 10 story building maneuver, hover and land
by John M. Craig 16 Aug '13

16 Aug '13

Ha! 60+ years on we finally see an early 20th century style sci-fi landing. Neat! John

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Nova/Supernova at Mag. 6.8
by Bruce Hugo 16 Aug '13

16 Aug '13

Mag 4.4?! Excellent! I will look for it this weekend... if the clouds or smoke doesn't blot out the evening sky. Bruce Hugo Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure Science. - Edwin Powell Hubble

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Fire Sun
by Joe Bauman 16 Aug '13

16 Aug '13

100 percent agree about nor worth the risk. I also couldn't see the pictured and I am on FB. Why not post them on the SLAS gallery? -- Joe ------------------------------ On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 12:31 PM MDT jcarman6(a)q.com wrote: > > >Here are a couple of very wide field pictures taken last night. It looks like the chip is still being overloaded. The sun wasn't as red as the night before, but still red enough. By the time the moon moved (okay, the earth moved) to get in a position to take a picture, the smoke cloud was sufficiently thin to not redden it overmuch. > > >https://www.facebook.com/joan.carman/media_set?set=a.10200437626405260.1073… > > > >I'm duly impressed with Chuck's photo and command of mother nature. To think he ordered those birds, in proper flying formation, at just the right moment is awe inspiring. I hope to some day attain his level of command of the birds. :) > > > >As to the the sun viewing article - humph. Printed it off, all 15 pages, to read at my leisure. Many years ago I was making some final adjustments to the position of my scope in regards to the sun, sans filter. Looking through a low power eyepiece, i t was only a second or so before turning away. I saw the sun for five minutes afterward. Fortunately, temporarily, burned the retina with the solar image. Absolutely not worth the risk. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Utah-Astronomy mailing list >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > >Send messages to the list to >Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > >The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. > >To unsubscribe go to: >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".

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