September 2009 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

LCROSS: new LCROSS team info page
by Canopus56 10 Sep '09

10 Sep '09

There is a new LCROSS site page to provide the general public with info. It was put up on 9-10 and may be a draft under construction. It recites the following: "Ref: Moon = 3476 km (dia.) = approximately 0.5 deg viewable from earth = 30 arc min. = 1800 arc seconds (scale ~1.93 km/arcsec., or 5.2 arc sec. for a 10km event size). Or, using trig, at 385k Km away from earth the 10Km impact event will be approximately 0.001488 deg. or, 5.36 arc sec. So, these two estimate techniques give close results. 10km will be about ¼ percent of the moon's dia. (for reference, pretty small, but if you slice the moons diameter up into 100 strips, you can get the idea). The brightness or magnitude of the event is of course dependant of what part you are talking about, but we estimate magnitude 6-9 for the best visible part and time." http://lcross.arc.nasa.gov/observation/amateur.htm Clear skies - Kurt

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South pole observing report 9-10-2009 12_19UT
by Canopus56 10 Sep '09

10 Sep '09

Here's the image in the form of an info panel from this morning's observing session: South Pole misc topo study 2009-9-10 12:19UT http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090910_1… http://tinyurl.com/lzoggo This morning, the east flank of Leibnitz beta was much brighter. Only the "back" or pole side rim of Shoemaker was illuminated as a silver. At this high negative libration in latitude, Caebus finally makes sense to me as being hidden from view behind M1. The main lesson learned from observing and imaging the south pole the last three mornings is that efficient orienting to features involves clearly identifying the main Earth-side massifs at the south pole. Once you locate the massifs, identifying craters is easy regardless of the current libration. The relevant south polar lunar massifs from lunar east to lunar west are: Leibnitz Beta Malapert alpha a.k.a. M8 M1 M3 and in the far background at higher negative librations - M5. This outstanding 2007-12-19 LPOD image by Tom Bash highlights these massifs. http://www.lpod.org/?m=20071219 This massifs are all fragments of a rim arc left by the South Polar Atkin basin impact. See LPODs 10-21-2006 and 12-19-2007. http://www.lpod.org/?m=20061021 and http://www.lpod.org/?m=20060920 Clear Skies - Kurt

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Need help IDing a scope
by Patrick Wiggins 10 Sep '09

10 Sep '09

Any ideas as to make and model this 12" scope? http://users.wirelessbeehive.com/~paw/temp/IDME.JPG Thanks, patrick

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32" video experiements
by Chuck Hards 10 Sep '09

10 Sep '09

I was joined by Bruce Grim and Roger Butz on the SPOC 32" scope Thursday night for the first trials with the high-def camcorder connected to the scope. The Orion bracket proved adequate. I may augment it a bit if time permits, but it will work as-is. The seeing was terrible and we were forced to use the scope at it's lowest power, about 180x, with the camera in afocal mode and using my UO 55mm Limited-Editon Plossl, but at that power the views were at least aesthetically satisfying. This is much too low for the LCROSS event; successfully imaging the debris cloud is very much dependant on good seeing at the time of impact. Even a visual sighting would be difficult in seeing such as we had Thursday night. A higher moon will help, as will an early-morning impact time. Panning the scope and fine-adjusting the FOV was simple and intuitive using the hand paddle while watching a 7" flat panel monitor set-up next to the keyboard and computer monitor at the operators station. The 3" monitor on the camcorder itself can also be used. I recorded several test-pans, touring the terminator and other interesting features on the lunar surface. It was noted that if we play station WWV while imaging, we can have precise timings for all recorded events since the camcorder records a stereo audio track as well. Comments by observers will also be recorded. I have a remote mic that plugs-into the camcorder if needed, for better placement than the internal mic on the camcorder. The telescope drive failed before we could image Jupiter or any DSO's, so further tests on fainter and smaller objects must await the repaired drive. Bruce has sent the buggy components in for factory repair. Contact him for detailed info on the problem. There was nothing noted during these tests that preclude imaging the LCROSS debris cloud, but further tests on fainter objects are needed, as well as tests when the atmosphere is steadier. The camcorder sequences are much sharper than the Meade Electronic Eyepiece can provide, plus it is a color chip. The Meade E.E. is monochrome. I will post some stills captured from the video sequences as well as a test video clip in coming days, when I get the time. Many thanks to Bruce and Roger for helping me with this test! I may bring the video equipment to the star party Saturday night the 29th. Bill Kennedy and I will be operating the 32" in star-hopping mode, using the synchronous motor RA drive backup designed and installed by Bruce for just such an occassion. Dec adjustment will be by hand.

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New Hubble Shots
by Jay Eads 09 Sep '09

09 Sep '09

Found them very interesting and the clarity I really enjoyed on these. http://www.hubblesite.org/newscenter/archive/releases/2009/25/image/a/

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] LCROSS: South pole obs rep 9-9-2009 11_30UT
by Canopus56 09 Sep '09

09 Sep '09

Here's a south polar west image in a topo study panel from my 11:54UT 2009-09-09 imaging session this morning. - Clear Skies - Kurt http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090909_1… http://tinyurl.com/nlf58f

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Apollo 11 flag apparently not standing
by erikhansen＠TheBlueZone.net 09 Sep '09

09 Sep '09

> Some more thoughts, We are not talking about it touching the ground but rather lying on the moon dust and rocks for months and years. It is a beach towel now. Perhaps the 5 second rule does not apply here, I have a funny story about that. If we could wash it, it might finally justify women astronauts (just kidding Ann). Perhaps a graduate student could do a thesis on getting moon stains out. I also remember something about if you don't take it down at night you are supposed to light it up. Perhaps we should rethink placing flags if we are not going to maintain them, touching the ground is discouraged and it should be lit at night. Spending a billions to replace flag seems a little frivolous, although I realize it was suggested in jest. The hardware left behind does display the American Flag. Right? Don't get me wrong, I did find the whole photo-op very inspiring, perhaps they should have brought the flags back and displayed them in a museum, rather than leave them behind. Maybe the presence moon dust on them would have silenced the conspiracy theorist. Even though I think/hope the thread about destroying the flag is in > jest. If the flag touches the ground or becomes dirty, we don't need to > destroy it. All we need to do is take it to the Laundromat and wash it. > This link references parts of the US code for dealing with the flag > > http://www.snopes.com/holidays/flagday/burnflag.asp > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Daniel > Holmes > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:25 AM > To: Utah-astronomy > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Apollo 11 flag apparently not standing > > Maybe its the secondary goal of the LCROSS mission? To destroy it? > > Dan > Sent from my BlackBerry. Please excuse any mispelings or typos. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> > > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 09:22:01 > To: Utah Astronomy<utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Apollo 11 flag apparently not standing > > > This isn't ground -- it's lunar soil. There's a special exception for > that in the Flag Destroy If Hit Ground Act. > > --- On Tue, 9/8/09, erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net > <erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net> wrote: > > From: erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net <erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Apollo 11 flag apparently not standing > To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 10:11 AM > >> If it hit the ground doesn't it need to be destroyed? > > > Right! >> >> --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Daniel Holmes <danielh(a)holmesonics.com> wrote: >> >> From: Daniel Holmes <danielh(a)holmesonics.com> >> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Apollo 11 flag apparently not standing >> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 8:43 PM >> >> This is a perfect reason to go back! To set it back up again! >> >> Dan >> >> On Sep 7, 2009, at 4:12 PM, Joe Bauman wrote: >> >>> Hi Friends, my blog today studies a photo by LCROSS and concludes the >>> flag planted by Armstrong and Aldrin may no longer be standing on the >>> moon. Pls take a look and leave a comment -- Thanks, Joe >>> >>> http://www.deseretnews.com/blogs/1,5322,10000034,00.html?bD=20090907 >> >> -- >> Daniel Holmes, danielh(a)holmesonics.com >> "Laugh while you can, monkey boy!" -- Lord John Whorfin >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Utah-Astronomy mailing list >> Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php >> Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Utah-Astronomy mailing list >> Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php >> Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com >

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LCROSS: South pole obs rep 9-9-2009 11_30UT
by Canopus56 09 Sep '09

09 Sep '09

I took some photometry images this morning (2009-9-9 11:30UT to 12:30UT) through Johnson V filter, exposuring to lunar south pole to a normal tone. Then the Alcyone multiple was imaged to get a rough calibration baseline. If I can get some reduction done, I'll have some firmer numbers for you. The short quick preliminary conclusion based on profile histograms of pixel values in a raw image of the south pole and the Alcyone multiple is that an integrated mag 5 star will just be visible in the Malapert "dark hole" - the shadowed area created by the Malapert alpha rampart and Liebnitz between, when a normal tone image is taken through a Johnson V-filter at an 0.0635 secs exposure at about f/30 and an efl of about 4500mm. Mag 8 is out of the question; mag 6.5 is "iffy". In reductions, I'll try to convert these into mpsas values. This will be a rough low precision, first-order analysis. For example, Alcyone itself is variable star, but with a low range of change. Shoemaker was absolutely stunning this morning. It was one of those rare observing sessions that makes this hobby worth all the effort. The light hit just a sliver of the whole rim of Shoemaker while it was sitting in the Malapert dark hole. The sliver rim had a beaded appearance to it and generated a perfect tilted ellipse shape. At the "back" or south side of Shoemaker, there is a small 6km crater on its rim, shown in high resolution radar topographic maps. That 6km crater was also crisply outlined when viewed with a 4mm TMB planetary e.p. with a 1550mm focal length and 125mm of aperature. Two small 6km and 4km craters just "below" or north of Malapert E were crisply seen - as was shadow terminator detail within 17km Malapert E itself. Part of the Faustini rim was also visible. Howarth in combination with the shadow of the Malapert alpha rampart makes a good dark hole, although there is bright sunlit terrain between Howarth and the south limb. Seeing held at Antatoldi III or better bewteen 11:30UT to 12:30UT (5:30 MDT-6:30 MDT) and into near nautical twilight. Just after 12:30UT, the morning atmospheric boil started. I feel there is an adequate margin of safety against bad seeing on impact day for my o.p. at 111W. The Moon will be in an analogous illumination and altitude for the LCROSS impact tomorrow morning at 5:30 MDT. I suspect the Shoemaker "beaded ring" effect is transitory, will fade as the terminator moves and will not be present tomorrow morning. More later. Clear Skies - Kurt

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Apollo 11 flag apparently not standing
by erikhansen＠TheBlueZone.net 09 Sep '09

09 Sep '09

>Well while on the subject, check out common violations of that code. http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/wallofshame.html Anybody have a Flag on a Credit Card? Even though I think/hope the thread about destroying the flag is in > jest. If the flag touches the ground or becomes dirty, we don't need to > destroy it. All we need to do is take it to the Laundromat and wash it. > This link references parts of the US code for dealing with the flag > > http://www.snopes.com/holidays/flagday/burnflag.asp > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Daniel > Holmes > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:25 AM > To: Utah-astronomy > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Apollo 11 flag apparently not standing > > Maybe its the secondary goal of the LCROSS mission? To destroy it? > > Dan > Sent from my BlackBerry. Please excuse any mispelings or typos. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> > > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 09:22:01 > To: Utah Astronomy<utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Apollo 11 flag apparently not standing > > > This isn't ground -- it's lunar soil. There's a special exception for > that in the Flag Destroy If Hit Ground Act. > > --- On Tue, 9/8/09, erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net > <erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net> wrote: > > From: erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net <erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Apollo 11 flag apparently not standing > To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 10:11 AM > >> If it hit the ground doesn't it need to be destroyed? > > > Right! >> >> --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Daniel Holmes <danielh(a)holmesonics.com> wrote: >> >> From: Daniel Holmes <danielh(a)holmesonics.com> >> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Apollo 11 flag apparently not standing >> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 8:43 PM >> >> This is a perfect reason to go back! To set it back up again! >> >> Dan >> >> On Sep 7, 2009, at 4:12 PM, Joe Bauman wrote: >> >>> Hi Friends, my blog today studies a photo by LCROSS and concludes the >>> flag planted by Armstrong and Aldrin may no longer be standing on the >>> moon. Pls take a look and leave a comment -- Thanks, Joe >>> >>> http://www.deseretnews.com/blogs/1,5322,10000034,00.html?bD=20090907 >> >> -- >> Daniel Holmes, danielh(a)holmesonics.com >> "Laugh while you can, monkey boy!" -- Lord John Whorfin >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Utah-Astronomy mailing list >> Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php >> Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Utah-Astronomy mailing list >> Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php >> Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com >

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Apollo 11 flag apparently not standing
by erikhansen＠TheBlueZone.net 09 Sep '09

09 Sep '09

> We just need to get a washing machine up there then. Even though I think/hope the thread about destroying the flag is in > jest. If the flag touches the ground or becomes dirty, we don't need to > destroy it. All we need to do is take it to the Laundromat and wash it. > This link references parts of the US code for dealing with the flag > > http://www.snopes.com/holidays/flagday/burnflag.asp > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com > [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Daniel > Holmes > Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 10:25 AM > To: Utah-astronomy > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Apollo 11 flag apparently not standing > > Maybe its the secondary goal of the LCROSS mission? To destroy it? > > Dan > Sent from my BlackBerry. Please excuse any mispelings or typos. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> > > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 09:22:01 > To: Utah Astronomy<utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Apollo 11 flag apparently not standing > > > This isn't ground -- it's lunar soil. There's a special exception for > that in the Flag Destroy If Hit Ground Act. > > --- On Tue, 9/8/09, erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net > <erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net> wrote: > > From: erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net <erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Apollo 11 flag apparently not standing > To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Tuesday, September 8, 2009, 10:11 AM > >> If it hit the ground doesn't it need to be destroyed? > > > Right! >> >> --- On Mon, 9/7/09, Daniel Holmes <danielh(a)holmesonics.com> wrote: >> >> From: Daniel Holmes <danielh(a)holmesonics.com> >> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Apollo 11 flag apparently not standing >> To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Date: Monday, September 7, 2009, 8:43 PM >> >> This is a perfect reason to go back! To set it back up again! >> >> Dan >> >> On Sep 7, 2009, at 4:12 PM, Joe Bauman wrote: >> >>> Hi Friends, my blog today studies a photo by LCROSS and concludes the >>> flag planted by Armstrong and Aldrin may no longer be standing on the >>> moon. Pls take a look and leave a comment -- Thanks, Joe >>> >>> http://www.deseretnews.com/blogs/1,5322,10000034,00.html?bD=20090907 >> >> -- >> Daniel Holmes, danielh(a)holmesonics.com >> "Laugh while you can, monkey boy!" -- Lord John Whorfin >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Utah-Astronomy mailing list >> Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php >> Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Utah-Astronomy mailing list >> Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >> Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php >> Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com >

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