August 2009 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: [Utah-astronomy] LRO info
by Gary Vardon 21 Aug '09

21 Aug '09

Fellow SLASers, I took my first electronics course using vacuum tubes. Circuits using vacuum tubes are easier to understand than circuits using transistors for me. The downsides are obvious. Vacuum tubes burn out, generate heat and are bigger than transistors. Sincerely, Gary Vardon The book DO It Right will help you understand vital ideas leading to your geater success. GO to PublishAmerica. -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Peterson Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:13 PM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: [Utah-astronomy] LRO info Here is a link that LRO fans might find interesting. I always thought the world made a turn for the worse when vacuum tubes went out of favor. http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/news/LRO_twta.html Vacuum tubes are not yet dead! Steve _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Gear
by Craig Smith 21 Aug '09

21 Aug '09

I am looking for a really cheap 12-14mm eyepiece for a friend; if anyone has one they want to get rid of let me know. I plan on going to Wolf Creek Saturday. I also have some things I need to get rid of if anyone's interested: Baader Hyperion Zoom OPT 2" dielectric SCT diagonal 1.25" Baader Constrast Booster filter Lumicon filters: 2" ND25 (Neutral Density 25%) 1.25" #15 Yellow-Orange 1.25" #29 Dark Red 1.25" #38A Dark Blue 1.25" #58 Dark Green And one of these: http://telescopes.net/doc/2500/item/CFW Craig

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LRO info
by Stephen Peterson 20 Aug '09

20 Aug '09

Here is a link that LRO fans might find interesting. I always thought the world made a turn for the worse when vacuum tubes went out of favor. http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LRO/news/LRO_twta.html Vacuum tubes are not yet dead! Steve

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Telescope and Eyepiece Help
by Jay Eads 20 Aug '09

20 Aug '09

Troy, I have several dobs (main ones are an 8inch, 10 inch and a 15inch). I have the 21mm Stratus that I use in the 8 and 10 inch as a finder EP, a 17mm Stratus that was a gift. A 13mm Stratus that is my workhorse (92x is just wonderful!) and a 5mm Hyperion. I also have a collection of plossls I use in my school program and one is a 17mm. I also have a nice 13mm that I really like but I use that mainly with the 15 inch dob. If you want to hook up at a star party or link up at Pit n Pole one night and try them out in your dob let me know. If your a member of SLAS just go to the member directory and get my email and email or give me a call there. I completed the Messier list using an 8 inch dob and will say if you stick with it, and record your observations, over a year you'll see growth in the details you find. Your eye will improve and your attention to detail improves. Anyway, the offer stands. If you want to hook up at a Star Party or Pit n Pole let me know and you can try out the EP's. I'm planning on going up to Wolf Creek on either Friday or Saturday also so if your up there you could try them out. Jay On 2009-08-19 19:45, Chuck Hards wrote: > Some people like zoom eyepieces. Personally, I don't, mostly due to the > fact that the field of view is very small at low powers. > > If you bring your telescope to a star party, many people there can help you > check your collimation. > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Troy Davidson <clandaith@???> wrote: > > > Is there a good website out there that will show me how to properly > > align my mirrors? > > > > Also, what's the opinion about zoomable eyepieces? > > > > ++++++++++++++++++ > > Troy Davidson > > Am I working - http://www.istroyworking.com > > > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Chuck Hards<chuck.hards@???> > > wrote: > > > Hi Troy: > > > > > > For most Messier objects, you will be using low powers. The 32mm is > > > probably too low for most, the 9mm is too high for most. > > > > > > I would recommend that you get some eypieces yielding magnifications > > > in-between. 50X-100X is the range where you will be doing most of your > > > deep-sky observing. > > > > > > To determine what magnification any particular eyepiece will yield with > > your > > > telescope, divide the telescope's focal length (in millimeters) by the > > > eyepiece focal length (also in millimeters). This will give you the > > > magnification of the combination. > > > > > > Example: 2000mm telescope focal length, 20mm eyepiece focal length. > > > 2000/20=100X. > > > > > > Also make sure your telescope is collimated (optically aligned) properly. > > > > > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Troy Davidson <clandaith@???> > > wrote: > > > > > >> Hello all, > > >> > > >> I'm a relatively new person to the group. I recently (Feburary) > > >> bought an 8" dobsonian. I have a 9mm and a 32mm eyepiece. > > >> > > >> When I take my telescope out to Skull Valley (pretty dark there) and > > >> look at Messier objects that are around 8 mag, I can hardly see them. > > >> All they look like are feint smudges. I have a hard time making out > > >> crisper objects. Also, all objects are just gray. There is no color > > >> to them. When I look at planets, I do see some color. I know that I > > >> won't get color like astro images, but I would expect some hints of > > >> color in these objects. > > >> > > >> Could it be that the mirrors in my telescope need adjusting? Could I > > >> need better eyepieces? Is it just me being unrealistic? > > >> > > >> My telescope is a Zhumell, and according to their site, > > >> http://www.zhumell.com/specialty/zhumell-telescopes-dobsonian.html , I > > >> should have a useful magnification up to 479X. I assume this is with > > >> a barlow or other magnifier added. > > >> > > >> Any help would be great. Thanks. > > >> > > >> ++++++++++++++++++ > > >> Troy Davidson > > >> Am I working - http://www.istroyworking.com > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Utah-Astronomy mailing list > > >> Utah-Astronomy@??? > > >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > >> Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > > >> Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > > > Utah-Astronomy@??? > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > > > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > > Utah-Astronomy@??? > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > >

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] LCROSS: South Pole LCROSS target zone imaging 2009-08-09 11_23UT
by Canopus56 19 Aug '09

19 Aug '09

> Kurt, can you confirm that the impact itself will not be visible, > and only the ejecta cloud can possibly be imaged? I do not believe the impact flash will be visible. The experiment design and list of remaining candidates are such that the impact should occur below the rim of a crater and will be obscured from Earth view. Only the rising ejecta curtain that reflects sunlight will be visible. However, the final selected target crater will not be announced until around September 9 - 30 days before impact. At the same time, the Moon will be aligned and illuminated in a manner similar to that which will be seen on the date of impact. There is a theoretical possibility that NASA will announce a previously unlisted final target and that that crater's bottom is both permanetly shadowed and is visible from Earth. However, the likelihood of that is extremely small. About that same date, the LCROSS team will launch it's impact image website to collect images generated by amateurs on the morning of the event. > I would value your opinion as to whether I should continue with > my plan to image this with the 32" and my hard-drive camcorder. Yes, the Grimm scope will be an ideal place to be, assuming that the SPOC committee also has the internet connection up and running and has an internet connected PC hooked to SPOC big screen TV. Although the LCROSS team has not stated so in writing, in two public webcasts they have stated that they will stream images live from the visual camera of the shepherding satellite as it does its final experiment-kamikaze run. So, even if it clouds over at the last second or even if NASA slips the impact moment forward such that the impact ejecta cloud is lost in the advancing astronomical twilight, you'll still have something interesting to look at. E.g. a la Ranger 9 TV broadcast. Conversely, the LCROSS team's webcast of the gravity assist lunar flyby in June had a pretty underwhelming production quality. I am presently working on the lunar glare problem (whether glare from the bright side of the Moon will wash out the impact ejecta curtain) and hope to have a final answer on that by September 12. Kurt P.S. - I recommend polling the club is see if someone bought one of the new DMK21AF04 firewire cameras. That would be the camera "axe" of choice. http://www.astronomycamerasblog.com/wp-content/uploads-extra/200709_sky_and…

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Fun night at SPOC
by Canopus56 19 Aug '09

19 Aug '09

Patrick, Thanks for the obs rep. I wasn't feeling well enough to attend but am glad to hear it worked out so well. Any images? - Kurt P.S. - How did the NPR thing go at the club meeting? When will the light pollution piece be broadcast?

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LCROSS: South Pole LCROSS target zone imaging 2009-08-09 11_23UT
by Canopus56 19 Aug '09

19 Aug '09

A unseasonably cold night dropped nighttime-low temperatures from 26deg C to 15C and stabilized the air. The following two images are of the south pole region encompassing the current 7-2009 LCROSS potential target list. This is intended to be the first in a planned series (weather permitting) through August 11 (73.8% illuminated fraction) and August 12 (64.2% illuminated fraction). The intent of this series is to gather images of analogous lighting and libration to that that will be seen on the Oct. 9 11:30UT LCROSS impact as a finding aid to general public and amateur viewers. Image info: Date-UTime, OP and target are encoded in the file names. Local circumstances: Lunar Age: 18.4 days Illuminated fraction: 89.2% Altitude +45.25d Meade DSIProI Meade ETX125 2x barlow extender estimated at approx. f/30, unguided Seeing: Poor. 2-3 out of 5 secs stable Images can be found in directory: http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090809_1… Direct urls are: A. - South Pole Region - Unlabeled - emphasizing "Malapert shadow hole" http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090809_1… http://tinyurl.com/mart6v B. - Same as A - LTVT aligned http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090809_1… http://tinyurl.com/lwf74e C. - Same as A - LTVT aligned with LCROSS target craters labeled http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090809_1… http://tinyurl.com/lbv6ae D. - Same as A - Fits version http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090809_1… 11d52mN40d46mKAF0_SP.fit E. - Experimental utlra-overexposure - brings out hidden Shoemaker in "Malapert shadow hole" http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090809_1… http://tinyurl.com/ncjgcb F. - Same as E - LTVT aligned http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090809_1… http://tinyurl.com/lrhf2b G. - Same as E - LTVT aligned with LCROSS target craters labeled http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090809_1… http://tinyurl.com/lc7a74 H. - Same as E - Fits version http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090809_1… Items E through H are an experimental ultra-overexposure designed to see how faint my camera setup can penetrate into the "Malapert shadow hole." The ultra-overexposure brings out Shoemaker hidden in the Malapert shadow. I do not own Photoshop. It would appreciated if someone would experiment with the images in Photoshop to cut, paste and blend the ultra-contast view of Shoemaker in the interior of the "Malapert shadow hole" into the normal contrast image, item "A" above. I plan to try this again, but using two parallel aligned polarizes to reduce glare from the Moon's surface reflection. Another possible processing option might be to apply the Photomatix High Dynamic Range software featured in the June issue of Sky & Telescope inorder to generate an image that combines a normally exposed bright surface with an over-exposed image of shadowed areas. In this lunar age 18.4 day image, the usual finder crater suspects are visible: Moretus, Simpelius crater asterism (which looks like a snowangle that you made as a child), Malapert E on Leibnitz Beta, Schomberger C and Malapert K. Faustini is slightly over Leibnitz Beta. Although I have not attempted autoguiding, potential lunar bright spots that hold during bad seeing moments include Casatus C (left-side middle of Item A), and further away - Rutherfurd in Calvius. At first, Simpelius J and the central peak of Moretus appeared like good guide target candidates, but in poor seeing they smeared and became invisible. On the morning of 20090807, I also looked at the near full Moon in order to consider how to direct general public inquiries to find the lunar south pole. At times, the parallactic angle of the Moon can fool beginners (and intermediates) as to the location of the south pole. I found the following low-power rules of thumb useful: 1) (For beginners), on the Moon the east west directions are reversed. The eastern Moon corresponds to your geographic western horizon. The western Moon corresponds to your eastern geographic horizon. 2) Mentally draw a line between Tycho through Rutherfurd. (Rutherfurd is young bright ray crater in the southeast corner of Clavius.) At the southern limb, the line intersects with Cabeus. See diagram: http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090809_1… http://tinyurl.com/ldrj49 Mentally drawing a line between the central peaks of Tycho, along the eastern edge of Clavius and the central peak of Moretus, extends to Malapert and the south pole on the southern limb. 3) Mentally draw a line between bright crater Kundt, through the central peak of Tycho. It intersects the southern limb at Cabeus. Malapert is one or two Tycho crater diameters to the lunar east along the southern limb. http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090809_1… http://tinyurl.com/krz4ae Clear Skies - Kurt References: NASA LCROSS Team, 7-14-2009, Short List of LCROSS Candidate Impact Craters http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/LCROSS/main/candidate_craters_story.html Rick Baldridge, LCROSS Google Groups Moderator, Call for images, 7-12-2009 "I urge everyone with high-resolution planetary imaging capability to attempt a detailed image that can be posted on the NASA website to guide would-be imagers/videographers to the impact location." http://groups.google.com/group/lcross_observation/msg/30a27eb02b531a48

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Fun night at SPOC
by Patrick Wiggins 19 Aug '09

19 Aug '09

After the SLAS meeting last night several of us headed to SPOC to watch a few events involving three of Jupiter's Galilean satellites. In addition to all three of the observatory telescopes being open, Siegfried set up his 160mm refractor. We started off watching Io move out and away from Jupiter and it's shadow move across the planet. We then watched as Europa and Ganymede grew closer and closer. At closest approach they reminded me of a tiny snowman with one ball of "snow" on the bottom and a much smaller one on top. While I knew Ganymede is larger than Europa I'd never actually seen the difference. Having them so close together really made the difference apparent. Another thing that caught my eye was the difference in color. Europa was a brilliant white with maybe the slightest hint of blue and Ganymede a distinct shade of orange. Then came the event that generated the most excitement. Ganymede's shadow first touched Europa making the world look squashed sideways. Then, within minutes the 99% eclipse had Europa so deeply in shadow that it was invisible in all but the Grim scope and a minute or two later it was even invisible in the Grim. A few minutes later the rapidly moving shadow started to egress Europa and then, just as quickly as it had disappeared it regained it's previous brilliance. Quite a show! And, of course, being a SLAS event, ATS followed so we headed for Denny's in Tooele where we all got to exclaim about what we had seen. Many thanks to Bruce Grim for suggesting the event and to Siegfried Jachmann for setting it up. patrick

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] LCROSS: South Pole LCROSS target zone imaging 2009-08-09 11_23UT
by Canopus56 18 Aug '09

18 Aug '09

To correct my prior post, the faint background features seen in the image are not illuminated by backlighting; they are illuminated by various low angle (0.3 degrees) direct sunlight. The feature in the background most probably is a highland between Shoemaker and Shackleton and not Shackleton, as previously stated. Further analysis of the pixel values between faint indicates a differential magnitude between the foreground bright spot next to Malapert E and the faint background features of about 1.6 mags. A background info panel is available at: http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090809_1… http://tinyurl.com/mlmseo I have done a little experimentation with co-imaging reference stars and the Moon's disk to establish the differential magnitudes of faintly illuminated features and background sky brightness washed out from lunar glare. In the next lunation, I'll be trying to refine that test to determine glare magnitudes of the background sky above Malapert E. The results of those tests should help in finding some imaging magnitude boundaries for the faintest eject cloud that can be imaged with amateur class scopes and cameras. Clear Skies, Kurt ----- Original Message ---- From: Canopus56 <canopus56(a)yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy List Serv <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:17:44 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] LCROSS: South Pole LCROSS target zone imaging 2009-08-09 11_23UT I had a few moments to image last night and made a technically poor image (20090811 at 0937UT) using a Meade ETX 125 at about f/30 and an older DSI-ProI. The image captures lunar south pole shadowing analogous to what will appear on the morning of the LCROSS impact. For illumination and sun-angle comparision, I also took a prior image on August 9 at 11:37UT: Lunar libration data for images and impact Source: LTVT ephemeris data, topocentric W111.8 N41.8 Date-TimeUT libr_lat lib_long colong illumfrac sunalt_MalpertE 20090811 0937 -6.1 -6.5 157.1 74.4 -0.5 20091009 1130 -3.5 2.8 158.2 70.9 1.6 20090809 1123 -5.2 -6.0 133.7 89.4 2.9 Date-TimeUT Lunar age (days) 20090811 0937 20.3 20091009 1130 20.6 20090809 1123 18.4 Item I. - South pole image 20090811 at 9:37UT http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090811_0… http://tinyurl.com/p3bdlk This image is a single frame - no stacking or deconvolution - and has been unsharp masked and gamma processed. While technically below the prevailing acceptable quality for amateur lunar imaging standards, it does record illumination and shadow conditions analogous to the LCROSS impact set for Oct. 9, 2009. Item J. - Same as item I but LTVT labeled with craters http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090811_0… http://tinyurl.com/pnmgta Item K. - Same as item I but hyperexposed to see if more detail could be extracted from the "Malapert dark hole". http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090811_0… http://tinyurl.com/qty3q8 (The Item K image is a single frame - no stacking or deconvolution. A stacked set of images also failed to bring out any more detail than that seen in the single frame image.) In the hyperexposed version, a snipet of the Faustini crater rim can be seen to the right of and below Malapert E. (Compare Item K to the best of the March 2009 south pole images.) Visually, this Faustini crater rim snipet was quite easily seen with 125mm of aperture. All images are in directory http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090811_0… Unlike my August 9 image, hyperexposing the Malapert "dark hole" did not bring out any additional detail. Compare Item K above with my Aug. 9 hyperexposed image: E. - Aug. 9 experimental hyperexposure - brings out hidden detail in the "Malapert dark hole". http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090809_1… http://tinyurl.com/ncjgcb I attributed the difference in the effectiveness of pulling detail out of a shadowed region to sun angle. On Aug. 9 the Sun angle at Malapert E was 2.9 degs. I believe at this angle, the Sun was also hitting the hidden backside of Leibnitz B and created a backscatter of light that faintly illuminated the interior of the Malapert "dark hole". On Aug. 11, the sun angle at Malapert E was -0.5 degrees, and there is no backscatter off the backside of Leibnitz Beta into the Malapert "dark hole". I was unable to image on the morning of the 12th, but observed visually at 2009-08-12 14:00UT during daylight. By then, a characteristic "dark canyon" for this colongitude (172 degs) leading from Moretus to Malapert had formed. The "hole" consists of Short and series of depressions lunar east of Newton B, M, G, A and ending with Newton B. This extended dark canyon trails lunar south down to the Malapert dark hole. It can be seen in Westfall's Atlas in plates 174-S and 179-S. The imaging lesson learned comparing the Aug. 9 and 12 images are that faint features can be extracted by hyperexposure notwithstanding lunar glare emitted from features on the bright side of the terminator. This result relates to two hypothesized impact ejecta curtain scenarios for the October 9 LCROSS impact. The first ejecta cloud scenario is the conservative LCROSS team planning assumption - a 10km wide by 5km high lampshade figure with a 2.5 km line rising above the rim of a permanently shadowed crater rim and being visible from Earth. The second ejecta cloud scenario is a more liberal hypothetical assumption of a 20km by 20km curtain capable of reflecting light that can be seen by a 254mm (10 inch) aperture amateur class telescope from Earth. For scale, the diameter of Malapert E is 17km. Using my Aug. 11 image, I added scaled ejecta cloud curtains for these two hypotheticals. Using 17km diameter Malapert E as the image scalar, the Aug. 11 image works out to an image scale of about 600 meters per pixel. Here's the Aug. 11 image with scaled figures for the two ejecta cloud hypotheticals: Item L. - Sames as Item I with scaled ejecta cloud hypotheticals - brightness of the cloud is abitrary http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090811_0… http://tinyurl.com/prdaku The luminance of the two scaled ejecta curtains is arbitary and is not intended to represent the actual, but presently unknown, brightness of the LCROSS impact ejecta curtain. The implication of these hypothetical cloud scales for the hyper-exposure imaging method is that the bright-border effect seen in the Aug. 9 image indicates that a 10km by 2.5km high ejecta curtain would be overwhelmed by the hyper-exposure border glare. See the following images showing the hyperexposure border glare where the southern lunar limb outline meets the dark sky - E. - Aug. 9 Experimental hyperexposure - brings out hidden Shoemaker in "Malapert shadow hole" http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090809_1… http://tinyurl.com/ncjgcb Item K. - Aug. 11 Experimental hyperexposure. Same as item I but hyperexposed to see if more detail could be extracted http://members.csolutions.net/fisherka/astronote/observed/LCROSS/20090811_0… http://tinyurl.com/qty3q8 Conversely, a 20x high ejecta curtain would rise high enough above the hyperexposure border glare to be captured by imaging - assuming the ejecta curtain reflects enough sunlight to be detected from Earth. The above discussion is not intended to say anything about the likelihood of visually observing the ejecta curtain. As noted above with respect to the August 11 image, the Faustini crater rim snipet was quite easily seen visually with 125mm of aperture. In the hyperexposure Aug. 11 image, the Faustini rim snipet is barely visible. Clear Skies - Kurt References: Malapert E diameter http://planetarynames.wr.usgs.gov/jsp/FeatureNameDetail.jsp?feature=71175

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4 more (from David Rankin)
by Patrick Wiggins 17 Aug '09

17 Aug '09

For some reason the list filtered David's post so I'm trying to post it for him. patrick Begin forwarded message: > From: David Rankin <David(a)rankinstudio.com> > Date: 17 August 2009 18:18:24 MDT > To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: 4 more o.0 - Last Night > > > I have been on a bit of a binge with my astro lately because I am > leaving back to school for the winter in Salt Lake City. Want to get > a bunch of imaging done before I go back to the traffic and LP. Hope > you all enjoy! > > Eagle > > http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2193&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 > > Triangulum > > http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2190&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 > > Lagoon > > http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2187&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 > > Sculptor > > http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2184&g2_imageViewsIndex=1 > >

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