May 2009 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Galactic Center
by stormcrow60＠xmission.com 20 May '09

20 May '09

Hi All, I am not saying I believe in the 2012 doomsday theories. I adhere very strictly to the scientific norms of determination of facts by experiments and tested theory. However, the Hopi tribe also predicts the end of the world, or the end of this age (I believe we are currently in the age of Pisces) on this same date. There are other ancient civilizations that predict this same fate in 2012. Again, I am not one to believe in this kind of speculation, but I do believe the ancients may have known more about our physical world, astronomy and science then we give them credit for. Some ancient civilizations may have known aspects of science that have long been forgotten. Jon

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A new and useful computational tool
by Richard Tenney 20 May '09

20 May '09

In case you haven't seen this yet (it was featured on NPR's science Friday last), this is a fabulous concept and a very useful web-based tool: http://www.wolframalpha.com/ Try typing in "beta centauri" for starters... Enjoy, /R

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Unusual shadow?
by Joe Bauman 19 May '09

19 May '09

It's really peculiar -- I'm puzzling over it. Best wishes, Joe --- On Tue, 5/19/09, Corr, Tom <TCorr(a)co.linn.or.us> wrote: From: Corr, Tom <TCorr(a)co.linn.or.us> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Unusual shadow? To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, May 19, 2009, 1:08 PM Thanks, everyone, for your comments. A bit more ... Unlike the images on Les Cowley's "Atmospheric Optics" site, the shadow I saw appeared to "arise" out of the ground and "ascend" to the contrail. The time was between noon or 1300 with clear air and unlimited visibility. My wife was driving south. I had only five to ten seconds to view the shadow before it was gone. It appeared to be almost perpendicular to the contrail, instead of parallel to it. I have seen, on many occasions, contail shadows that paralleled the contrail and ones that seemed to show the aircraft chasing its own contrail. This, however, was distinctly different ... hence, my puzzlement. The shadow, contrail, and Sun were almost directly in front of me. The aircraft was no longer in sight. As I remember, I think the alignment is similar to my rough attempt to designate it below. 0 = Sun, / = contrail, | = shadow, ____h_ = horizon, ___ g_ = ground, and > = my eyes. It was the relative angle and the medium against which the shadow was able to be cast that got me wondering. I understand a shadow being cast on a cirrus cloud system, on top of a layer of clouds, but I was driving in almost absolutely CAVU. (Now that I look at the "sketch" below, perhaps you have reasonable grounds to think that I am really "out to lunch," especially if the sketch arrives in your inbox after being completely distorted by the Cyber Monster.) So far, the response that it was the 'Smoke Monster from Lost' appears the most logical explanation. \ <-----------------------------------closest part of contrail extending overhead and behind me \ \ 0 \ | \ | \ | \ | \ | \<-------------------------------farthest part of contrail in the distance in front of me | | _______|__h____ south | /\ _______|__g____ > | ________________________________ From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:31 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Unusual shadow? Sender ALLOWED [ Remove <https://vq.co.linn.or.us/pk/banner?op=remove_from_allow&From=utah%2Dast ronomy%2Dbounces(a)mailman.xmission.com&VU=aV47PNhFIWR67juHByvmTQ> ] [ Block <https://vq.co.linn.or.us/pk/banner?op=block_sender&From=utah%2Dastronom y%2Dbounces(a)mailman.xmission.com&VU=aV47PNhFIWR67juHByvmTQ> ] details <https://vq.co.linn.or.us/userguide/details_allow.html> Vanquish Anti-Spam Control Panel <https://vq.co.linn.or.us/pk/heldemail> Kim, please forgive me but I don't understand this statement at all. Between the contrail and the sun? That's some low-flying jet, or else you were that guy in the lawnchair & weather balloons. On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Kim <kimharch(a)cut.net> wrote: > You almost need to be directly between the contrail > and the sun to see such a shadow on the ground cast in the atomosphere > itself, _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Unusual shadow?
by Corr, Tom 19 May '09

19 May '09

Yesterday, as I was driving, I noticed out my front windscreen what appeared to be a column of smoke rising from the ground well into the sky about 10 degrees to the left of my forward vision. The thing that initially struck me was it was very vague and hard to see. I first had to ensure that I was really seeing it. Secondly, the two sides of the column (of smoke) were perfectly square and the two sides remained for its entire distance parallel. I noticed in the blue sky overhead a jet contrail. The Sun was directly above the contrail. I have never seen a contrail shadowed in the atmosphere near the ground. While I was flying a plane above a cloud layer, I have seen contrail shadows cast onto the tops of the clouds. But this one did not appear to be cast onto any "surface." It appeared to be vertically suspended in the noontime air. Any help? Perhaps it was an illusion. Hopefully the answer is easier that the questions raised about Albireo. ;-) Thomas N. Corr Linn County Legal Counsel PO Box 100, Albany OR 97321 541.967.3840 Fax 541.928.5424 tcorr(a)co.linn.or.us <mailto:tcorr@co.linn.or.us> The information contained in this e-mail message is information protected by attorney-client and/or the attorney/work product privilege. It is intended only for use of the individual named above and the privileges are not waived by virtue of this having been sent by electronic mail transmission. If the person actually receiving this e-mail or any other reader of this message is not the named recipient or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the named recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please please advise me immediately by reply e-mail, keep the contents confidential, and immediately delete the message and any attachments from your system.

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Albireo: a double star?
by daniel turner 19 May '09

19 May '09

--- On Mon, 5/18/09, erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net <erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net> wrote: > From: erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net <erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Albireo: a double star? > To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 3:24 PM > >I searched the web for Hipparcos > info no luck, good luck to somebody > else, I am sure they don't refer to it as Alberio. > > Chuck, I suggest we see if it gets down to liberal vs > conservative POV. As > a liberal I say it is a physical pair. > Erik: The Wiki data references the Hipparcos data in the footnotes. Hipparcos did extend our knowledge greatly over what we could gleen from the ground, but it left the Albireo question unresolved. A newer more powerful Astrometry satellite named Gaia is supposed to greatly extend our reach for this type of question. In the mean time we need to remember that male support group on the Red Green show where men try to learn the three little words that are so hard for them to say....."I don't know". DT

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Need a good map?
by Scott Catron 19 May '09

19 May '09

My wife and I have been discussing where to go this summer for a camping trip. We don't want to go south, thinking it would be too hot, we could go north, but we've done that before and want somewhere new to go. Of course, a problem with going somewhere new is to find a good map of where you're going, in case you want to try some back roads or tucked-away campsite. Anyway, I think I've found a good map for our next trip at this website: http://www.ntis.gov/products/invclear.aspx 1*N7218820*1**SS - Atlas and Gazetteer of the North Side of the Moon - $55.50 I've enjoyed using the Atlas and Gazetteer's put out by DeLorme, I hope this one is as good. --- Scott Catron - zaui(a)yahoo.com ---

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Unusual shadow?
by Canopus56 18 May '09

18 May '09

Contrail shadows - See Les Cowley's "Atmospheric Optics" site on contrail shadows: http://www.atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/contr1.htm http://www.atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/contr2.htm Figure-diagram: "[T]he [contrail cloud's] shadow falls on a thin lower layer of cirrus cloud." http://www.atoptics.co.uk/atoptics/images1/shim18.gif - Clear Skies, Kurt

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Glob cluster omega Cen observing reports
by Canopus56 18 May '09

18 May '09

Daniel wrote: > We don't know enough to draw boundry lines through the group. Robert wrote: > As humans we like black and white explanations and > prefer to find neat categories to put things in > while nature prefers the infinite possibilities > and variations. . . . I think it makes a lot more sense > that objects like Omega Centari are reminding > us that our desire to pigeon hole everything into > nice neat categories and types is futile and > self defeating. For those of you who are driving down to the Bryce Astronomy Festival at night, you might want to carry some binoculars and pull of Highway 89 to see if you can add cluster omega Cent to your "bagged" targets list. Robert, I view this tendency to label and categorize as the march of scientific knowledge flowing from the interplay of theory and observation. The current generally accepted majority scientific paradrigm is only that - a temporary mental construct of reality that we agree to, full well knowing that over time advances in observation and or theories will supercede our present worldview - and properly should do so if science progressing. In that sense, I do not seek to categorize all objects using labels, but naming a thing is part of communicating that you understand its true known properties or one's best estimate of its suspected qualities. I often refer to my paternal grandmother - born in 1904 and who passed in 1985. At her birth in 1904, the size and shape of the Milky Way was not known and that galaxies were objects outside the solar system was unconfirmed, the Hubble constant had not been discovered and the main stellar spectral sequence was unknown, Mars was still seriously considered in some circles to have canals, the Moon's craters were thought to principally be of volcanic origin and no human had viewed the backside of the Moon, radio astronomy had not been invented and gamma raw bursts were unknown, the Bohr model of the atom did not exist and had not be superceded by quantum mechanics, Newtonian time mechanics had not been superceded by relativistic time, the Standard Model did not exist, that fusion was the primary power source for Sun and stars was unknown, the Kupier Belt, the Oort Cloud and Trans-Neptunian Objects were unknown, Pluto was undiscovered, DNA and RNA were yet to be discovered much less manipulated by the PCR process coupled with gene sequence insertion, viruses had yet to be discovered. The list goes on. One thing that I enjoy about following professional astronomy is that it is a live science with a steady stream of new advances in the best tradition of the interplay of theory and observation. The incorporation of Ceres and Pluto into a spectrum of trans-neptunian objects is a recent example based on new discoveries of outer solar system TNOs. IMHO, that there are legions of scientists out there, lazily sitting around on there backsides, sucking on the tax dole while observing, categorizing, theorizing and testing their models about the physical world gives me hope for humanity. Their activities are the furthest from "futile and self defeating" conduct that a member of homo sapiens can get. If I do reach 81 years old like grandmutter Helen, without stroking out or having a heart attack or cancer, I hope that everything I could have known as an infant in 1956 is just as hopelessly outdated and nostolagicly quaint as everything that grandmother Helen could have known in 1904. The "futile and self-defeating" part of the western scientific outlook occurs when we mistake the ability of the scientific method to model reality as permanent, unfailing truth itself as opposed to a temporary best-predictive model. One antidote to this is to sit, Zen like, in front of the eyepiece of my 10 inch Newt, staring into M24 or M13. - Clear Skies - Kurt

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Unusual shadow?
by Joe Bauman 18 May '09

18 May '09

There must have been enough dust particles in the air to catch the shadow -- my guess, Joe --- On Mon, 5/18/09, Corr, Tom <TCorr(a)co.linn.or.us> wrote: From: Corr, Tom <TCorr(a)co.linn.or.us> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Unusual shadow? To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 4:16 PM Yesterday, as I was driving, I noticed out my front windscreen what appeared to be a column of smoke rising from the ground well into the sky about 10 degrees to the left of my forward vision. The thing that initially struck me was it was very vague and hard to see. I first had to ensure that I was really seeing it. Secondly, the two sides of the column (of smoke) were perfectly square and the two sides remained for its entire distance parallel. I noticed in the blue sky overhead a jet contrail. The Sun was directly above the contrail. I have never seen a contrail shadowed in the atmosphere near the ground. While I was flying a plane above a cloud layer, I have seen contrail shadows cast onto the tops of the clouds. But this one did not appear to be cast onto any "surface." It appeared to be vertically suspended in the noontime air. Any help? Perhaps it was an illusion. Hopefully the answer is easier that the questions raised about Albireo. ;-) Thomas N. Corr Linn County Legal Counsel PO Box 100, Albany OR 97321 541.967.3840 Fax 541.928.5424 tcorr(a)co.linn.or.us <mailto:tcorr@co.linn.or.us> The information contained in this e-mail message is information protected by attorney-client and/or the attorney/work product privilege. It is intended only for use of the individual named above and the privileges are not waived by virtue of this having been sent by electronic mail transmission. If the person actually receiving this e-mail or any other reader of this message is not the named recipient or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the named recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution, or copying of the communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please please advise me immediately by reply e-mail, keep the contents confidential, and immediately delete the message and any attachments from your system. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tropical Telescopic Tour
by Joe Bauman 18 May '09

18 May '09

Ah, to be there too -- wish we were rich! Have a great time, Rob, and all the other SLASers -- Yokwe, Joe --- On Mon, 5/18/09, Rob Ratkowski Photography <ratkwski(a)hawaii.rr.com> wrote: From: Rob Ratkowski Photography <ratkwski(a)hawaii.rr.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Tropical Telescopic Tour To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 4:17 PM Howzit Joe?? well wouldn't you know it BUT we have Kona vog in but it ought to clear out mid-week. we were up top on Saturday in windy-ish conditions but had an absolute good time. the southern sky is ablaze, and those objects the guys want to see are right there. I know Rodger is looking to see Eta Carina and that's no problem at all, it's just to the right of the Crux. I'm going to bring an extension tube this time so I can put the Burgess on w/ a w40mm Swan and get a real nice wide field view, last look was w/ a 30mm and as much as it was a good view, w/ a long FL wide EP, the sight is just delightful. I'm looking forward to meeting more of the SLAS'ers tomorrow and having a good time for the nights to come. A hui ho Rob _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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