September 2008 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night
by zaurak＠digis.net 05 Sep '08

05 Sep '08

I agree with some of Dans points, we do need to be more diverse than SPOC, which we are. Bruce has said that he feels that SPOC Star Parties do not need to be more frequent, those folks have other interests (Tooele folks). The majority of SLAS is in the SL Valley and we need to keep activities alive in SLC as well. I support SPOC as much as anyone (well not more than the Tooele residents), but I am reluctant to drive out there more than 3-4 times a month, for me fuel cost is an issue. Harmons and SPOC Star parties are not going away, but we have had a third site before (little mountain) and they were popular Star Parties, for the club and the public. The Board has relaxed donations for Star Parties practices, we should not have highest bidder competition. I think the money we get from SL County is a donation from tax payers and should count for something in regard to school star parties. Organizations have used us for some of their fund raising and we should be compensated by those groups. SLAS members do put forth effort for these and I see no problem with getting donations, we do have expenses and Utah does benefit from our activities. In the past we where an inexpensive option, in that the Planetarium had a MUCH higher fee. Erik --- outwest112(a)yahoo.com wrote: From: daniel turner <outwest112(a)yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 11:58:12 -0700 (PDT) This is a healthy discussion. I have not been offended by anything said so far, nor a I likely to be. I don't take myself that serious. I guess the question of star party policy ties in to the bigger picture of where SLAS fits into the astronomy community and how this has changed over time. SLAS has a lot of emotional investment in SPOC as well as the money that was spent there. New ideas that may compete with SPOC for our attention are greeted with resistance. Events outside of SPOC, new or old, are viewed with suspicion if not actively undermined. That includes the "This is the Place" venue and the special star parties. Yet to make SLAS a "SPOC first" club is a serios mistake in my opinion. People don't want to drive to SPOC, stand in long lines and have the doors closed on them at 11 pm. People these days have the option of buying their own telescope and after a short learning curve they no longer need the observatory. They may go to SPOC to set up on the lawn a few times but they soon find that they can go anywhere in Utah where it's dark and on their own time. I believe the era of good mass produced telescopes is making the observatory and even large group star parties much less important. The National Park star parties have their own issues besides the driving distances. Their size cam be intimidating and some of the staff seem to have control issues. They are attended by people who only get out a few times a year and so service a smaller group who might not go to other events. They don't really compete with SPOC directly. The special star parties have undergone a change since I joined the club. We now do them for money and that changes the whole dynamic of the events. The going rate is $50 a telescope and sometimes there is a set number minimum or maximum that needs to be met. This has moved us away from charity events like cancer and diabetes and toward sites like Sundance, Solitude, and corporate groups like Discovey. I've met some one who would like to compete with us for school parties by offering a lower price. He thinks our prices are too high. I've seen charity events canceled because other clubs consider the event the be "their customer" and we were "poaching". My preference would be to do these events for free. I certainly alway did them for free and if the money is gone maybe the spirit of giving would come back. In closing I feel that cutting back or not considering events outside of SPOC would be a mistake. The world has moved beyond "brick and mortar astronomy" (Chuck Hard's term for it). People have options that they didn't have 40 years ago when SLAS was started. DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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UA gallery woes
by Patrick Wiggins 05 Sep '08

05 Sep '08

Sorry to report that the machine the UA gallery lives on suffered a major meltdown earlier today and is probably going to be down for a while. The problem may have infected the backups as well so when (if) the gallery returns some of the data may be missing. patrick

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night
by zaurak＠digis.net 05 Sep '08

05 Sep '08

Hi Kim, There was some spirited debate about This is the Place. A large number of people, in SLAS, have a desire to have Star Parties in the SL Valley without parking lot lights. This is the Place was that place and is only a trial. Harmons will remain a Star Party venue. I do not believe there will be any, at TITP, there next year. Little Mountain was a big loss and there is still interest in another SL Valley location in the future, this is the desire of the membership. I understand there has been adequate turn out however, the canyon winds are the problem. It does have potential for Sun Parties in that they get a large number of visitors during weekend days, Astronomy Day activities work there also. Sun Parties seem dominated by club members with sparse public, the majority of public along the Jordan River pass by quickly on bikes or roller blades. We have been in much higher traffic areas before, in the Side Walk Astronomer tradition. Erik --- kimharch(a)cut.net wrote: From: "Kim" <kimharch(a)cut.net> To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 11:07:42 -0600 I'll offer one more post on this subject then keep my mouth - uh, keyboard quiet. I offered to do a SLAS-sanctioned/sponsored event in a nearby National Park a couple of years ago. I committed to organize the event and received not a single offer for help from any other SLAS member or even non-SLAS member. The park was no further away than Bryce Canyon or Capitol Reef. When a conflict with my work came up and I had to bail, the NP contact was very unhappy with me. (Yes, I'm afraid I do put work ahead of astronomy.) Fortunately, the weather didn't cooperate that weekend so it wasn't as big a flop as it could have been. So NO, I do NOT support a more aggressive or more extensive star party schedule for SLAS than what we've been doing for the past few years. In fact, I think double-booking for anything such as this weekend's simultaneous star parties at This is the Place and SPOC is a big mistake. I make this observation from personal experience, and not just the bad experience to which I referred above. This issue has been debated for years, including during all the time that I served on the Board. Double-booking and scheduling two or three events each week has NEVER worked. SLAS-sponsored events become an obligation to all SLAS members, but only a relative few take the responsibility seriously. So, let's stick to what we do well and not expand official SLAS events beyond those that have been consistently well-supported in the past. I don't recall that "sidewalk astronomy" is anywhere in our constitution. Those of us who enjoy such informal activities are not at all limited if SLAS doesn't formally schedule, sanction or support them. Regards...and apologies if my SHOUTING has offended anyone, Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of zaurak(a)digis.net Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 9:04 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night Dan, You are right, a Star Party can happen without board supervision. We are talking about Star Parties that the club organizes and invites the public. I would say I have been involved with more informal than formal star parties. SLAS welcomes all members and non-members and by no means tries to regulate where members go. Many want to have group events and mingle with others, we try to accommodate this with new moon events. Erik --- outwest112(a)yahoo.com wrote: From: daniel turner <outwest112(a)yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 13:35:03 -0700 (PDT) This has morphed into a discussion of SLAS and I'm OK with that but I hope people don't get offended when I express my opinion on this. Star parties do not require board member supervision. They really don't even need club affiation. It just requires some one with a telescope set up in a place where some one else can find them. If you go to a National Park and just take your telescope, ask if you can set it up where others can share the view. Star Parties can be spontaneous. This is the spirit of Side Walk Astonomy. It's much better than the turf wars that we go through to try and come up with a schedule. And indeed many people are doing just this. Rob and I met a family at Wolf Creek with an Orion Dob from the Planetarium. They were like others I have met on forest service or BLM land. They have a telescope, are interested in astronomy, they are a joy to be with, and they would never even consider joining SLAS. Maybe we don't get recognition because we don't deserve it. DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1653 - Release Date: 9/5/2008 6:57 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1653 - Release Date: 9/5/2008 6:57 AM _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night
by zaurak＠digis.net 05 Sep '08

05 Sep '08

Dan, You are right, a Star Party can happen without board supervision. We are talking about Star Parties that the club organizes and invites the public. I would say I have been involved with more informal than formal star parties. SLAS welcomes all members and non-members and by no means tries to regulate where members go. Many want to have group events and mingle with others, we try to accommodate this with new moon events. Erik --- outwest112(a)yahoo.com wrote: From: daniel turner <outwest112(a)yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 13:35:03 -0700 (PDT) This has morphed into a discussion of SLAS and I'm OK with that but I hope people don't get offended when I express my opinion on this. Star parties do not require board member supervision. They really don't even need club affiation. It just requires some one with a telescope set up in a place where some one else can find them. If you go to a National Park and just take your telescope, ask if you can set it up where others can share the view. Star Parties can be spontaneous. This is the spirit of Side Walk Astonomy. It's much better than the turf wars that we go through to try and come up with a schedule. And indeed many people are doing just this. Rob and I met a family at Wolf Creek with an Orion Dob from the Planetarium. They were like others I have met on forest service or BLM land. They have a telescope, are interested in astronomy, they are a joy to be with, and they would never even consider joining SLAS. Maybe we don't get recognition because we don't deserve it. DT _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night
by Robert Taylor 05 Sep '08

05 Sep '08

I understand and it is a problem if no one shows up to a party where they are expecting a lot of scopes. But expectations can be managed and I think that if we actually look at what parties are not well attended I think we will find a pattern. I don't think the big Park Service parties fall into this category, the smaller and more remote week-day parties are probably more suspect here but I'm not sure, I don't see any feed back on the star parties. Currently we don't have a good mechanism to share that information with the club members at large. I try to help when I can by reporting on star parties or scheduled observing I go to on this board, others do the same but it's not a formal system, it's very informal and therefore inconsistent. However if we do have a club scheduled star party it might be a good idea to get a report on the outcome and report back to the entire club on it. Just a suggestion. That's one of the reasons I posted a couple things on Natural Bridges. I too have done star parties where I was the sole representative of SLAS, more than once. This past week-end was an example although to be fair the weather really didn't look good and I had nothing else to do that night. Roger has done a great job on these this year and his name is almost always on the list to attend these. If each of us in the club can support just one or two of these non-SPOC or non-Harmon's star parties each season we can cover all that needs to be covered. +++++++++++++ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 08:13:55 -0700 From: <zaurak(a)digis.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <20080904081355.256C49CD(a)resin18.mta.everyone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I do not believe there is a problem, you can Star Gaze where and when you want. As an Astronomy Club it is bad when we advertise an event and no one or only a few show up. Willingness to participate is a factor, fortunately we have enough to support a robust schedule. We have had angry public when an event is scheduled and no one shows up. Rodger Fry has done an outstanding job with Special Star Parties and has accommodated most request. I hope next years board has someone as enthusiastic. Willingness to participate does seem to becoming a problem. We used to have a lot of people running for the SLAS Board with several people running for every office. Now we struggle to get one per office. SLAS members have a long history of National Park Star Parties., I see no reason why this can't continue. I even ran into John Dobson near Capital Reef in his RV asking for directions. Yes ladies, men do ask for directions. All I am saying is that SLAS has to be careful about having support for an event before scheduling. Members input is welcome, when deciding the schedule. I remember one year when I did 1-2 per week, most went well, but some I was the only person and I would end up with lines of 500 people. We would look at one thing for 3 hours, it was not enjoyable for anyone. Erik

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night
by Robert Taylor 04 Sep '08

04 Sep '08

Eric: I don't think there is a problem either. Plenty of non-club star gazing going on. I'm sorry that some of our points are delayed and overlapping, I only get the library version of the board posts not the individual postings. My choice for the last few years has to support activities and not be on the board or an officer, again due to professional commitments. I've noticed the drop in participation at that level and while we are still getting good people to serve on the board it would be nice to see more people in the process. I think we both came to the same conclusion (you probably long before me) about what types of star parties suffer from low participation, the next question is there anything that can be done about it? +++++++ Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 08:13:55 -0700 From: <zaurak(a)digis.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <20080904081355.256C49CD(a)resin18.mta.everyone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I do not believe there is a problem, you can Star Gaze where and when you want. As an Astronomy Club it is bad when we advertise an event and no one or only a few show up. Willingness to participate is a factor, fortunately we have enough to support a robust schedule. We have had angry public when an event is scheduled and no one shows up. Rodger Fry has done an outstanding job with Special Star Parties and has accommodated most request. I hope next years board has someone as enthusiastic. Willingness to participate does seem to becoming a problem. We used to have a lot of people running for the SLAS Board with several people running for every office. Now we struggle to get one per office. SLAS members have a long history of National Park Star Parties., I see no reason why this can't continue. I even ran into John Dobson near Capital Reef in his RV asking for directions. Yes ladies, men do ask for directions. All I am saying is that SLAS has to be careful about having support for an event before scheduling. Members input is welcome, when deciding the schedule. I remember one year when I did 1-2 per week, most went well, but some I was the only person and I would end up with lines of 500 people. We would look at one thing for 3 hours, it was not enjoyable for anyone. Erik

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS star party commitments
by Robert Taylor 04 Sep '08

04 Sep '08

Hey Kim no need to be respectful, I enjoy a good literary joust. But seriously I think this is a good discussion and there are some good points being made. I just hate to see us scale back what I see as one of SLAS's strong points: public outreach. If in fact the membership is only able or willing to support a very finite number of events or events in certain places then we need to manage to that and perhaps modify the way we do parties. We don't seem to have participation problems for star parties at the National Parks which are far away, expensive and time consuming, so clearly SLAS member will drive, spend money on gas, and even take time off from work for star parties and observing. That doesn't seem to be an issue, we get great numbers for Bryce and Capital Reef, we even did OK at Natural Bridges, it just seems we're very selective on what parties we are wiling to support and participate in. We get hordes of members show up at SPOC, but not down the road a few miles at Camp Hobe. So - to me the evidence and pattern suggests it's not that there are too many star parties but where they are, when they are and what the cause is. Some members clearly do more than their share of the special star parties. Arizona is too far to be any kind of official SLAS event and should be covered by local clubs, and I made that point when I was talking to the rangers from AZ. They should look to their local clubs first which of course they have but they are having trouble getting the level of support they would like. Perhaps there is a national "Telescope Gap", more demand then supply and that may be a credit to our success. I am sensitive to the fact that sometimes we just can't do it. In past years I've attended more events then what I was able to do this year due to increased travel responsibilities at work, I was just wasn't around. That has made me hesitant get more involved with the club, perhaps I need to re-visit that. Let me throw a challenge out to everyone to re-visit that and consider what you can contribute to SALS and at what level you can participate, even if it just means picking up one or two more special star parties each year than you would normally go to. Just a few ramblings. ++++++++++++ Message: 1 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 09:48:12 -0600 From: "Kim" <kimharch(a)cut.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS star party commitments To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <000301c90ea5$a3ef4710$6402a8c0@OFFICEDESK1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Hi all. I've served on the Board as president, vice president and member-at-large, for a total of six years (I think - memory isn't what it used to be). When I lived in SLC, I attended most public events and more private events than I am now able to do, but I hope my opinion still counts. I must (respectfully) disagree with Daniel and Robert. As Erik points out, the issue is one of having adequate support. It is indeed possible to be spread too thin, such that if multiple star parties are scheduled for a given night or weekend one or more may suffer from inadequate SLAS attendance, or worse, none at all. To paraphrase Robert, if you want to go, if it's not too far to drive, if gas is not too expensive or if you have no other obligations by all means go. No one is under obligation to stay home. However, let's not designate every possible event a SLAS-supported public star party, if for no other reason than it becomes a logistical nightmare for the Board and members who do want to support everything that the club does. I believe that I was between Board service the year that we took on too many star parties, as Erik alluded to. I recall that the few of us who did try to be there all the time were simply worn out. And yes, it did come down to just a few who provided support for the exhaustive schedule. Those who think that it isn't possible to do too many star parties either weren't there or don't recall that it did not work. I remember reading about a very active and successful fundraiser and supporter for some given charity - I don't recall which. Because of his success, he was often asked to help other charities raise money. His reply was educational: "Your cause is important, but it is not my cause." I don't believe that SLAS can or should support every cause, even proposed star parties at national parks. Just my thoughts. Kim

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night
by zaurak＠digis.net 04 Sep '08

04 Sep '08

Robert, You support club activities well, and you have my (and I am sure others) appreciation, we do always seem to have people that step up. You don't have to be on the Board to make significant contributions. Unfortunately, many active members of the past are no longer very active, in some cases from differing expectations. Expectations have been very hard to manage, among club members especially, unless everything is made clear. In the past we have tried more star parties and support did faulter, it was from this feedback that we temper our scheduling. I would hope future boards seek club members feedback and opinions as much as Lowell and Bob have. We need to be careful about what becomes a SLAS event, some people have tried to make "non-official" into "official" events and, in some cases, friction with the Park Service ensued along with hurt feelings because they did not get support they desired. As I recall Bryce started as a "small" event as did the Grand Canyon Star Parties. As you suspected, from my view, as a past board member, it is the "special" star parties that are the challenge to get support for. Your comments are good, perhaps Natural Bridges could become a more regular informal event, to be more than that probably won't come from SLAS. I would also add that many board members (past and future) do not subscribe to this group, so I would not assume comments here to be known by the SLAS Board or the majority of the general membership. Perhaps, Patrick knows how much of SLAS subscribes. I for one have always invited other campers to share my telescope views and I hope others do as well. Erik --- robtaylor3661(a)comcast.net wrote: From: "Robert Taylor" <robtaylor3661(a)comcast.net> To: <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 11:59:17 -0600 I understand and it is a problem if no one shows up to a party where they are expecting a lot of scopes. But expectations can be managed and I think that if we actually look at what parties are not well attended I think we will find a pattern. I don't think the big Park Service parties fall into this category, the smaller and more remote week-day parties are probably more suspect here but I'm not sure, I don't see any feed back on the star parties. Currently we don't have a good mechanism to share that information with the club members at large. I try to help when I can by reporting on star parties or scheduled observing I go to on this board, others do the same but it's not a formal system, it's very informal and therefore inconsistent. However if we do have a club scheduled star party it might be a good idea to get a report on the outcome and report back to the entire club on it. Just a suggestion. That's one of the reasons I posted a couple things on Natural Bridges. I too have done star parties where I was the sole representative of SLAS, more than once. This past week-end was an example although to be fair the weather really didn't look good and I had nothing else to do that night. Roger has done a great job on these this year and his name is almost always on the list to attend these. If each of us in the club can support just one or two of these non-SPOC or non-Harmon's star parties each season we can cover all that needs to be covered. +++++++++++++ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 08:13:55 -0700 From: <zaurak(a)digis.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <20080904081355.256C49CD(a)resin18.mta.everyone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I do not believe there is a problem, you can Star Gaze where and when you want. As an Astronomy Club it is bad when we advertise an event and no one or only a few show up. Willingness to participate is a factor, fortunately we have enough to support a robust schedule. We have had angry public when an event is scheduled and no one shows up. Rodger Fry has done an outstanding job with Special Star Parties and has accommodated most request. I hope next years board has someone as enthusiastic. Willingness to participate does seem to becoming a problem. We used to have a lot of people running for the SLAS Board with several people running for every office. Now we struggle to get one per office. SLAS members have a long history of National Park Star Parties., I see no reason why this can't continue. I even ran into John Dobson near Capital Reef in his RV asking for directions. Yes ladies, men do ask for directions. All I am saying is that SLAS has to be careful about having support for an event before scheduling. Members input is welcome, when deciding the schedule. I remember one year when I did 1-2 per week, most went well, but some I was the only person and I would end up with lines of 500 people. We would look at one thing for 3 hours, it was not enjoyable for anyone. Erik _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS star party commitments
by zaurak＠digis.net 04 Sep '08

04 Sep '08

I think what I remember most was a Haleys Comet Star Party that had traffic backed up to I-80, and a group campout with 1,000 girls and 1 telescope not the fun you might imagine. Yes, I have been to RTMC, Texas Star Party, and the Southern Cross Party in Florida and few understand the extent of the public outreach of SLAS. National Recognition seems to concentrate on Astronomy Day Activities, IE one event as opposed to what a club does all year. All SLAS Club members can take credit for that. I think I will bring that up to the AstroLeague. --- kimharch(a)cut.net wrote: From: "Kim" <kimharch(a)cut.net> To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS star party commitments Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 11:36:23 -0600 Thanks, Erik. I couldn't remember those specifically involved the year that the schedule was so intense. I do remember trying to attend most events and I was overtaxed doing so. I also recall that we double-booked on some weekends or special star party nights, thinking that we would have the support. It didn't work then and I'm sure it wouldn't work now. I've always thought that our club deserved some kind of special recognition for our extensive outreach efforts. I've attended events at RTMC and elsewhere when I've heard members of other clubs brag about the efforts they make and the attendance they get for the ONE public star party that they do every year. Not once have I heard anyone mention numbers that approach the attendance that we get on a weekly basis at our public star parties that are usually scheduled from April through October. Factor in the many hundreds or thousands that might attend something really special like the week-long, nightly observing sessions we held for the close Mars opposition (in 2003?) and there simply isn't any group that compares. There oughtta be a prize... Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of zaurak(a)digis.net Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:15 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS star party commitments Thanks for your comments Kim, I have also served through the years as a board member in all capacities, Yes your opinion is still valued. As I recall you served as president a year or two after me. I was unable to get anyone to assume Rodger's role and had to commit to all Star Parties. It burned me out. It is hard to know the demands for Star Parties until you assume responsibility for them and commit to go to all of them. No other club matches our efforts on a year to year basis. I would challenge someone to find one that does, because I have looked at many websites from Astronomy Clubs and have not found one. We had a board member resign because the demand for time quickly became overwhelming for Special Star Parties and could find little help as far as support. I think my point, for Robert, was perhaps we could find an Astronomy Club nearer to Natural Bridges that would like to host a Star Party there. We can't be everything to everybody, lets get more Astronomy Clubs involved in this great effort. I would be happy to research that, with Robert, but it is an event I would be unable to support with a telescope. My equipment wore me out setting up and tearing down and it is permanently mounted in my observatory. The North Rim and South Rim seem to be covered and that is great. Perhaps the if Park Service is dissatisfied with the relationship, they should address that with the Tucson and Phoenix Astronomy Clubs. I don't think SLAS can or should try and take those over. SLAS has decided to support Bryce, on an official basis and has become a great event. I think this is because we have chosen to make it a priority. Erik No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1651 - Release Date: 9/4/2008 6:57 AM _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS star party commitments
by zaurak＠digis.net 04 Sep '08

04 Sep '08

Thanks for your comments Kim, I have also served through the years as a board member in all capacities, Yes your opinion is still valued. As I recall you served as president a year or two after me. I was unable to get anyone to assume Rodger's role and had to commit to all Star Parties. It burned me out. It is hard to know the demands for Star Parties until you assume responsibility for them and commit to go to all of them. No other club matches our efforts on a year to year basis. I would challenge someone to find one that does, because I have looked at many websites from Astronomy Clubs and have not found one. We had a board member resign because the demand for time quickly became overwhelming for Special Star Parties and could find little help as far as support. I think my point, for Robert, was perhaps we could find an Astronomy Club nearer to Natural Bridges that would like to host a Star Party there. We can't be everything to everybody, lets get more Astronomy Clubs involved in this great effort. I would be happy to research that, with Robert, but it is an event I would be unable to support with a telescope. My equipment wore me out setting up and tearing down and it is permanently mounted in my observatory. The North Rim and South Rim seem to be covered and that is great. Perhaps the if Park Service is dissatisfied with the relationship, they should address that with the Tucson and Phoenix Astronomy Clubs. I don't think SLAS can or should try and take those over. SLAS has decided to support Bryce, on an official basis and has become a great event. I think this is because we have chosen to make it a priority. Erik --- kimharch(a)cut.net wrote: From: "Kim" <kimharch(a)cut.net> To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] SLAS star party commitments Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 09:48:12 -0600 Hi all. I've served on the Board as president, vice president and member-at-large, for a total of six years (I think - memory isn't what it used to be). When I lived in SLC, I attended most public events and more private events than I am now able to do, but I hope my opinion still counts. I must (respectfully) disagree with Daniel and Robert. As Erik points out, the issue is one of having adequate support. It is indeed possible to be spread too thin, such that if multiple star parties are scheduled for a given night or weekend one or more may suffer from inadequate SLAS attendance, or worse, none at all. To paraphrase Robert, if you want to go, if it's not too far to drive, if gas is not too expensive or if you have no other obligations by all means go. No one is under obligation to stay home. However, let's not designate every possible event a SLAS-supported public star party, if for no other reason than it becomes a logistical nightmare for the Board and members who do want to support everything that the club does. I believe that I was between Board service the year that we took on too many star parties, as Erik alluded to. I recall that the few of us who did try to be there all the time were simply worn out. And yes, it did come down to just a few who provided support for the exhaustive schedule. Those who think that it isn't possible to do too many star parties either weren't there or don't recall that it did not work. I remember reading about a very active and successful fundraiser and supporter for some given charity - I don't recall which. Because of his success, he was often asked to help other charities raise money. His reply was educational: "Your cause is important, but it is not my cause." I don't believe that SLAS can or should support every cause, even proposed star parties at national parks. Just my thoughts. Kim No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.6.16/1651 - Release Date: 9/4/2008 6:57 AM _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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