November 2006 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

New Admin
by Cynthia Blue 12 Nov '06

12 Nov '06

Would anyone like to take over the list and the admin duties? With all my dog activities I find myself hardly reading the list... we can keep it on my xmission account that is fine. Just let me know if we have any voluteers or nonimations. :) Cynthia -- http://blog.hexwitch.com Elsinore Lucilla Aurelius ASCA-CD RN CGC CH Pembroke Faded Glory VC HT RN NAP NJP NAC OJC CGC Angel Pumpkin Spice Lady DPP CGC Spirit Chasers Spice NA NAJ CGC "We need to respect our limits, but not accept them. And we need to acknowledge our successes, but not be satisfied with them." -William

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Saturn storm
by Chuck Hards 11 Nov '06

11 Nov '06

A rather remarkable storm on Saturn's south pole, as imaged by Cassini: http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.cfm The short time-lapse sequence is fascinating. Be sure to click on the press release link for even more images and information. Can someone on the list with knowledge of fluid dynamics or meteorology exlplain why the central "eye" is football-shaped instead of circular, as on earth? Or is this an unexplained Saturnian mystery? Thanks to Patrick for calling this one to our attention via his "News". ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com

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CO2, Earth - Mars - Venus
by Canopus56 11 Nov '06

11 Nov '06

Just to keep this astronomical: CO2 is a small fraction of the Earth's atmosphere. Persuing through my Allen's Astrophysical Quantities_ (2000 4ed), pp. 258-260 and 301, here are some numbers: Total mass of the Earth's atmosphere: 5.136 x 10^18 kg Earth, Venus and Mars Top Seven Earth Atmosphere Gases as a percent of the total atmosphere volume Earth (%) Venus (%) Mars (%) N2 78.08 3.5 2.7 O2 20.95 0.0 0.13 H2O 0.03- 0.002 0.03 0.000002 Ar 0.00934 0.007 1.6 CO2 0.000345 96.5 95.3 Ne 0.000018 0.001 0.00025 He 0.00000524 0.0012 0.0 Volume percents can be directly applied to the mass. The Earth percent by mass is: Earth Top Seven Earth Atmosphere Gases as a percent of the total atmosphere weight Earth (%) N2 75.02 O2 23.14 H2O 0.05- 0.000003 Ar 0.0129 CO2 0.000524 Ne 0.0000127 He 0.000000724 In amateur astronomy, we are used to small variations in gaseous composition of a body changing its properties - in stellar evolution. In stellar physics, an older measure of a star's metallicity is its "Z" characteristic - the fraction of all its gases heavier than helium to the star's total mass. About 2% of the Sun by mass are "metals" other than helium and hydrogen. Relatively miniscule changes of a star's metallicity (relative to its total mass) can greatly change in the evolution of a star by, among other things, increasing its solar wind. - Kurt ____________________________________________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com

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Happy Veteran's Day
by Chuck Hards 11 Nov '06

11 Nov '06

I've expressed good wishes to a couple of list members privately whom I know served, but it comes to mind that I missed one at least, and probably more- so here it is for all military Veterans on the astro list. Thank you, sincerely, for your service and sacrifice. I hope you all have had an enjoyable Veteran's Day so-far! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com

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Carbon tally shows growing global problem
by Patrick Wiggins 11 Nov '06

11 Nov '06

http://www.nature.com/news/2006/061106/full/061106-18.html pw

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] Climate chaos?
by Tyler Allred 10 Nov '06

10 Nov '06

Joe, I have remained silent for a while, but can't continue to do so. The evidence for rapid recent temperature increases is overwhelming, but not certain (is anything?). We know that we are dumping enormous quantities of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, and we know what those gases do. We also know that we are wiping out forests all over the world, thus reducing the buffering ability of the system. Why would it be a surprise to anyone that we are causing a change? I realize that there have been wide variations on climate in the past, and that it is difficult to separate our actions from the natural variability, but I don't think it takes a great leap of logic to see that we may be causing substantial change. Even small changes in global temperature can have dramatic consequences. The ecosystem can easily adjust to such changes, but we can't! Even small changes in sea level would be catastrophic for humans because of the way we have chosen to distribute ourselves on the planet. I personally know several scientists (at NOAH in Boulder, Colorado) who have no axe to grind and who are absolutely convinced on this issue. Also, consider the consequences of our actions.... if we are wrong about global warming but take action anyway, we may spend some money, but we will have cleaner air and more efficient factories and transportation, etc. What is the down side? If we are right, then we may help avert a global disaster and show a little bit of our human intelligence and ability to adapt our own actions to accommodate increases in our understanding. Either way, action now means we win! Every time we have asked corporate America to take action on pollution, they respond by saying that it will break the bank. That has never been the case. I am glad that past generations took action on pollution, and I hope that we can do the same. I just hope we get a President soon who is willing to consider the costs and potential benefits and then take action. The rest of the world looks at us and shakes it head in disbelief. I am tired of leaders who ignore the science in favor of profits. The US needs to be a leader on this issue, not a ball and chain! That is my 2-cents worth. Please don't be offended Joe, but I just couldn't sit still for this thread. Cheers, Tyler Allred _____________________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces+tylerallred=earthlink.net(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces+tylerallred=earthlink.net@mailman.xmission.co m] On Behalf Of Joe Bauman Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 11:04 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Climate chaos? Not to beat a dead horse with a hockey stick, but I found this comment by Mr. Gettings to be especially important: "In practice, we use boreholes that are deep enough to get the last 200-500 years, and we use an analysis method that looks for a pre-instrumental mean temperature. For the northern hemisphere, this indicates roughly 1C of warming in the last 200 years. Our more recent work (such as the paper referenced above) has been on reconciling the difference between the proxy results, which often show 0.5-0.6 C of warming, with our results." So there has been 1 C of warming in the last 200 years -- except that with their more recent research, that has dropped to 0.5 to 0.6 degrees. I repeat: How can such a tiny shift in 200 years result in all these supposedly catastrophic changes, even assuming humans are responsible? Is our ecosystem so finely balanced that it can't stand a change of half a degree over 200 years. Since the average temperature of the Arctic is -- who knows? But it must be really cold. How do you get from there (a degree or half a degree in 200 years) to here (man caused serious global warming that is melting the world's ice caps)? It seems ludicrous, yet everybody seems to subscribe to the theory and dump on anyone with doubts. Sorry to make anyone mad -- Joe _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] Climate chaos?
by Tyler Allred 10 Nov '06

10 Nov '06

Dale Hooper said: <It really worries me when someone starts out by saying, "It doesn't <sound to me like you are keeping an open mind..." and then proceeds to <follow it with a whole bunch of !!!!!!! and CAPITAL LETTERS. Hi Dale. Any comment on what was actually said in the message, or just the punctuation? :) Tyler

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Transit pix
by Patrick Wiggins 10 Nov '06

10 Nov '06

For those who have not seen it already our own Rob Ratkowski has set up a first rate site for yesterday's transit. http://www.astroday.net/MercTransit06.html pw

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Global warming
by Kim 10 Nov '06

10 Nov '06

I have some VERY strong feelings about the subject. Kim

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Climate chaos?
by slas＠2nerds.com 09 Nov '06

09 Nov '06

Caution: this article may prove to be more satisfying to global-warming cranks than to global-warming believers: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/05/nosplit/nwa… The linked "References and detailed calculations" PDF file is a 40-page "force multiplier": if the article pleases you, the PDF file will probably please you more; if the article displeases you, the PDF file will likely increase your displeasure. :-)

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