July 2005 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

No more pontificating
by Chuck Hards 28 Jul '05

28 Jul '05

I've decided that I'll no longer comment on motivations, reasons, or the zen of astronomy (or any subject for that matter) on the list, and will stick to the occasional fact only. It's obvious that I am out-of-touch with the "amateur astronomer" of today. I also lack the communcative skills to truly get my ideas across and am not doing the concepts any good for that reason. No one is interested in doing things the "old fashioned" way, the simple way, the hard way, and even the atm's of today are just interested in optics and machining, there is no room for craftsmanship and handwork in the hobby at large. I do like most of you quite a bit and will remain on the list, but as my thoughts and ideas are irrellevant to amateur astronomy in Utah I'll try lurking for a while. Since my postings sometimes tend to kill any list activity for a while afterwards, this will be a good thing. I will say that I admire those of you who have so much time for your hobby. I honestly can't understand how anyone with a career and a family can squeeze-in so much telescope and meeting time as some of you, without shorting the other two areas. My last gasp at hard-core atming and astronomy was five years ago and it's been a constant struggle ever since. It's been just ages since my time has been my own, and I can't even remember what it's like. Tonight I began taking down my home workshop. It's been idle for quite a while anyway, and I need the storage space to finish the third level of the house. I am returning to building WWI model airplanes so I am setting up a small modeling bench for the winter in one remote corner of the furnace room. Should be fun and won't require any drive time, good weather, or darkness. All the ATM stuff has been moved out to the garage rafters for a while, I just can't stare at it longingly anymore. Out of sight, out of mind so they say. I'm still deeply involved in school and since I got back on the list I must confess that I've lacked the self-discipline to properly apportion my time, so I'm only going to check email every few days to make studying easier. Those of you who's friendship I value most have my phone number if you need to get ahold of me in a hurry. Finally (hurrah!), please don't mistake this for an apology. I believe firmly in my ideas, and I only wish that I was better at communicating those ideas. Thanks for your time- now go out and look at that sky. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] No more pontificating
by steve.nielsen＠comcast.net 28 Jul '05

28 Jul '05

Chuck, I spend 99.9% of my time reading e-mails and lurking in the shadows. I rarely take the time to respond to e-mails or contribute to the thread. But I feel I need to on this one. Someone must have responded privately to one of your e-mails that I didn't see. I've read and followed this group for several years. I have always enjoyed your sense of humor, sometimes you make me laugh out loud. I'm usually surrounded by kids when I'm on the computer and when people on the list are joking back and forth, I'll often read it to my kids. It's good stuff. Your years of experience and wealth of knowledge is of tremendous value. You are one of the key components of this group. I totally understand and respect your time restraints with school and if that is why you are going to contribute less, more power to you. But please don't let one or two vocal people ruin it for the rest of us. You're a stud and I love reading postings from you and Siegfried, Brent, Kim, Patrick, Joe etc. Keep it coming when you can. -------------- Original message -------------- > I've decided that I'll no longer comment on > motivations, reasons, or the zen of astronomy (or any > subject for that matter) on the list, and will stick > to the occasional fact only. It's obvious that I am > out-of-touch with the "amateur astronomer" of today. > I also lack the communcative skills to truly get my > ideas across and am not doing the concepts any good > for that reason.

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Shuttles: It's that foam again
by Michael Carnes 28 Jul '05

28 Jul '05

Just heard the news that the shuttle fleet is grounded once again. There's a clear photo of a big chunk of foam just missing Discovery as it falls off of the external tank. Given the fact that NASA has spent the last two years playing with foam formulations and adhesives, you've got to wonder how the shuttle program goes forward after this. Hindsight being what it is (20/20), it seems that the decision to place the main engines on the orbiter wasn't such a good idea. Economically, it appears to make sense, but it means that any external tank must be placed ahead of the engines. This in turn means that physical problems on the tank (stuff falling off) pose an immediate hazard to the orbiter. Placing only maneuvering engines and retros on the orbiter would allow a more traditional booster BEHIND the orbiter. Then you wouldn't care a lot if chunks of foam or ice fell off (as long as you weren't the guy in the boat underneath). This may also spell doom for the ISS. I've never been a fan of ISS (we got more done on Skylab), and an untrustworthy shuttle makes it unlikely that it can ever carry a staff of more than 2. That's how many can fit into the Soyuz escape vehicle. And it takes two people just to keep that bucket together. They'll keep a stiff upper lip for a while, but the handwriting is on the wall. More importantly, it may mean the real end of Hubble. The new administrator at NASA seemed to be inclined to reverse Sean O'Keefe's decision. Can't do it without a shuttle though. I wasn't too worried about the sensor issue. There are small gremlins for any launch. They always get fixed, clearing the way for a different set of gremlins on the next launch. But the foam problem is fundamental. It's the reason that seven astronauts died, and two years of focused effort don't appear to have resolved it. Michael

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Last quarter
by Chuck Hards 27 Jul '05

27 Jul '05

Out this morning looking at the moon with the little home-made refractor at work. It has a completely different character than first quarter. Strange seeing shadows backwards from the way we most often see them. Pico and Piton casting long shadows, Clavius in sharp relief. I'd have counted craterlets if I had more aperture and higher powers available. The sky is much steadier before dawn than after dusk. Beautiful, serene. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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Site report - Wolf Creek
by Canopus56 27 Jul '05

27 Jul '05

Site report from the Duschene Ridge - one mile south of the Wolf Creek campground off of Forest Road 91. In summary - the grand display of galactic core and spinward galactic disk is on. Be there or be square. 7/25/2004 10pm-12:30am Temp: mid to low 50s. Daytime temps are in the 70s, but for comfortable night-time viewing the temps are such that long-pants and heavy-coat and/or fleece jacket with sweater are warranted. Very light gloves are useful for comfort, but not necessary. ZLM: 6.0 from McBeath's Hercules LM area Horizon limiting magnitude: M22, M7, M8 are all naked-eye objects. Detail in the Sag-Oph Barnard clouds obscuring the galactic core are evident to the naked-eye without binoculars. Sky brightness: Bortle Rural to True Dark Sky. You know it's going to be a good night when the Pipe Nebula is naked eye object in between civil and astronomical twilight. (Minor light pollution to 5Â° above horizon at WWS to WWN from Heber.) Atmospheric extinction: Before sunset, summer haze was evident to 10Â° above horizon, but seeing in near-horizon objects like M6 is excellent. I also visited this site on 7/19, a SLC heavy-smog work weekday. On that night, the smog atmospheric band at Wolf Creek was significant, stretching to 20Â° above the horizon with noticable effects on seeing. Seeing: A-III at 20Â° off zenith No-see-um's: High-level of aggressive no-see-ums that rise 1 hour before sunset. Although not so numerous as to interfere with viewing, DEET or other repellant is mandatory; a mosquito net jacket is recommended; long-pants highly recommended for comfortable viewing. These no-see-ums are aggressive. Some are large enough that they will bite through a single layer of clothing to reach non-DEET treated skin. Early-morning return drive hazards from Wolf Creek to the Francis stop-light: 6 deer - 1 parked on the road and 5 solitary potential "darters" equally spaced along the roadside; 2 coyotes; 1 dog. Weather: In the late afternoon (4-7pm), several mountain generated cumulus storm clouds blew over, but these cleared out as the Sun set. In the vinicity: Wildflowers are in full bloom, so a pre-darkness drive over to Silver Meadow was in order. 1 1/2 miles to the north of Highway 35 on a two-wheel dirt road. The dirt road turnoff is the first turn-off to the north of the highway, about 1/2 mile past (east) of the Wolf Creek campground entrance. Wildflower fields that extend for 3/4 of a mile can be seen. Session notes: The main purpose of this trip was to 1) cool-off from the stifling SLC heat-wave and 2) to become acquainted with star fields around three insatability zone variables that change 1/2 magnitudes within 2-3 hours (VX Her, DY Her, and Sco V703). Worked on confirming 2 deg field charts before the Moon rose at 11:53 pm. Venus is mag 0.0 during civil twilight. The usual long-time to summer astronomical twilight applies. Although the Sun sets about 9pm, true astronomical twilight does not really begin until about 10:30pm. There was enough time for an extended nap between setting up and astronomical twilight. By Friday, the Moon should be coming up after 1:00am. (During this dark sky cycle, the New Moon is on August 4 with a lunar return around Aug. 7 or 8.) The southern delta Aquarid meteor shower peaks on Thursday, July 28 (20 ZHR) and the alpha-Capricornids on Sat. July 30 (4 ZHR). See - http://www.imo.net/calendar/cal05.html#southern-delta-aquarids - Enjoy Canopus56 (Kurt) ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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August SLAS meeting
by Patrick Wiggins 27 Jul '05

27 Jul '05

Next month's (August) SLAS meeting will feature a professor from the U's Physics Dept. who will speak about comets and comet research. Patrick

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Re: Re: [Utah-astronomy] weather window
by astrodeb＠charter.net 27 Jul '05

27 Jul '05

Chuck, By the way, you have any suggestions for manual guiding? I borrowed a Meade 12mm Illuminated reticle for my 480mm guidescope. I think I'll use a 2X barlow with it for 80X. Hope it is not too hot tonight. Debbie > > From: Chuck Hards <chuckhards(a)yahoo.com> > Date: 2005/07/26 Tue PM 03:45:35 MDT > To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: Re: [Utah-astronomy] weather window > > That worked up until I got to be about 40...not such a > good idea since then, especially since I sometimes > work with dangerous machinery! But thanks for > pitching the idea... > > --- astrodeb(a)charter.net wrote: > > > Chuck, > > > > Just don't go to bed. Then you don't have to get up. > > > > Debbie > > > > > > From: Chuck Hards <chuckhards(a)yahoo.com> > > > Date: 2005/07/26 Tue PM 02:09:56 MDT > > > To: Utah Astronomy > > <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] weather window > > > > > > Alas, when you have to get up at 4:30 for work, > > you > > > have to get to bed before dark. No such thing as > > a > > > work night viewing session in summer for some of > > us! > > > > > > But we'll be there in spirit. > > > > > > --- daniel turner <outwest112(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > it may be worth a short > > > > drive for a short work/school night viewing > > session. > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > > > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > > > > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > > Visit the Photo Gallery: > > http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > Visit the Photo Gallery: > > http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com >

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Shuttle launch
by Kim Hyatt 27 Jul '05

27 Jul '05

Sorry, Joe about the earlier posting. Didn't mean any offense. You, of course, are the exception. I had an early meeting in Provo today, so I "heard" the launch while listening to the car radio as it was reported live on NPR. I'm pleased that the launch went off without a problem (read: explosion) but it did spark (no pun intended - honest) a couple of thoughts. 1. I had to laugh/snicker/guffaw/deride (even though I was alone) the NASA narrator's comment, made just as the shuttle cleared the launch pad, "...beginning America's new journey to the Moon, Mars and beyond." The ironic thing is that I understand that NOTHING about the shuttle, the ISS, or anything else that NASA is doing right now has any application whatsoever to landing people on the Moon, let alone Mars. Patrick, of course, can correct me if I'm wrong. 2. I'm reminded again of the concept of lunar and solar system exploration that, I believe, was first proposed by Wernher von Braun: build a vehicle platform in low-earth orbit, and launch shuttles/landers from there to the Moon. Even though it was clear by 1968 that this measured, rational approach to space exploration by humans had been abandoned by NASA, Stanley Kubrick still depicted space travel by this means in the film 2001 A Space Odyssey. THAT is the kind of human space exploration that I could still support. So, I ask all of you, particularly those who are more knowledgeable about such things: (1) Is it too late to return to this approach? (2) Does/did the Space Shuttle "fleet" have this capability, either alone or in combination with the ISS? (3) If not the Space Shuttle and/or ISS, is there any other vehicle or orbiting platform currently contemplated that can achieve this? Thoughts, anyone? [Joe: it's OK if you can or wish to use any of this drivel for your article.] Kim A. Hyatt, Architect P.O. Box 124 Mt. Pleasant, Utah 84647 T: 435.462.9207 F: 435/462.5013 M: 801.631.5228 kimharch(a)cut.net

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Re: Re: [Utah-astronomy] weather window
by astrodeb＠charter.net 26 Jul '05

26 Jul '05

Chuck, Just don't go to bed. Then you don't have to get up. Debbie > > From: Chuck Hards <chuckhards(a)yahoo.com> > Date: 2005/07/26 Tue PM 02:09:56 MDT > To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] weather window > > Alas, when you have to get up at 4:30 for work, you > have to get to bed before dark. No such thing as a > work night viewing session in summer for some of us! > > But we'll be there in spirit. > > --- daniel turner <outwest112(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > it may be worth a short > > drive for a short work/school night viewing session. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com >

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] 1969
by diveboss＠xmission.com 26 Jul '05

26 Jul '05

Quoting Kim Hyatt <kimharch(a)cut.net>: > so my friend and I retired to the garage for some clandestine rocket design and > construction. We did have a few from-scratch solid fuel rocket successes. > (Ground match heads and sparklers for fuel, > Patrick, maybe you, Chuck VB and I should collaborate on something really > special? Launch a bowling ball into orbit? How many match heads and sparklers you figure you'll need?

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