February 2005 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Why the hostility?
by Canopus56 03 Feb '05

03 Feb '05

Bob Grant wrote: > That begs the question of how does the Salt Lake > County Library evade that rule? They make their > rooms and auditoriums available to private parties > at no cost. The following are my personal, individual comments and do not reflect any comments or positions of SLAS. I feel the larger core issue is what the Clark director, Clark's board or trustee's and/or citizens's advisory board, view as the proper roll of local astronomy clubs in the facility. My impression is that Clark is a "scopeless" planetarium. SLAS (Patrick and Seigfried and others) has done an amazing job of building a scope facility with scopes, now up to 30" in diameter, at no cost to the taxpayers. Many SLAS members are dedicated amateurs who own advanced scopes. There is a natural fit between the resources of Clark and the SLAS, since the Clark is "scopeless" and SLAS has a cadre of informed amateurs with scopes. That natural fit of resources can further Clark's primary mission of public education, which is also a secondary objective, to my understanding of SLAS. For example, during the recent Mars opposition, the general public flocked to SPOC, not the planetarium. Government agencies (e.g. Natural History Museum, Red Butte Gardens, etc.) rarely turn away a willing and able cadre of experienced volunteers. It aids them in achieving their core mission without using taxpayer dollars. The key issue of this thread is not the narrower question of whether SLAS can meet at the planetarium. To my understanding, SLAS does not want to meet there because of the fee parking situation. The narrow meeting issue raised in the Tribune entertainment column is only symptomatic of the larger question. Clark is also a relatively young facility, that no doubt is still trying to crystalize organizational focus during the start-up phase of a new public service. Their delay in having an integrated program with recognized community groups is understandable. Both groups have changed in the last couple of years. Maybe it is time to visit the question of whether a more formal and coordinated working relationship is now in order. Again, I would like to stress that this email should not be taken as overly harsh criticism of Clark. Some intentions do not translate well through the imperfect media of email. Overall, everyone in the community, and myself personally, are proud of the facility. It's a good movie theater and a good movie productionn company that cranks out, now internationally recognized, computer generated graphics productions. I understood from the November meeting that SLAS had some kind of a liason or representative on the Clark board. If that is the case, perhaps a Clark report could be added to the agenda at the next meeting. Clark director Seth hopefully will give some indication here of what this division of the Salt Lake County Parks and Recreation Department's policies are with respect to working with local recognized community groups. That is what I am interested in having an answer to, as well as finding out who runs Clark, that is who is on the board(s). Respectfully, Canopus56 Salt Lake City, Utah __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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Today's NASA Briefing
by Patrick Wiggins 03 Feb '05

03 Feb '05

Two things of note out of today's briefing. 1) The briefer noted they have received 132 reports of found debris in CA, 130 in AZ and 9 in NM but that none had been confirmed. He made no mention of Utah. 2) The picture mentioned in the Aviation Week article was shown. Some of the media has been playing it up as being "hi resolution". Don't know that I'd call it hi-res but it does show the shape of the orbiter and maybe there's "something" with the left wing but the image is so pixcelated it's hard to say for sure. No doubt the picture will be all over the TV tonight.

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One last explanation, then an exit
by Chuck Hards 02 Feb '05

02 Feb '05

My friends: Please bear with me. This starts hard but ends soft. 1. I didn't write the Tribune article, and mentioned my opinion only. I hardly have to defend my memories and preferences of a bygone time, to anyone! I am not a representative of SLAS, or any other astro club, and can not, and will not, debate the issue on their behalf. For that reason I also cannot accept personal criticism due to past relationships between the parties and any published press articles. I do feel that Director Jarvis' latest reply seemed more defensive and accusatory than that expected from someone desiring to build concensus. I deeply regret his assumption that I am in a position to negotiate or otherwise get involved other than expressing a personal opinion, as many others have done, right here in this very forum. Some have agreed with me, on many issues, but are they ever challenged or attacked? Not very often. I'm not going to be the goat anymore. 2. Daniel, I have had a sick wife, my own health problems, and a work schedule that isn't a tidy 9-to-5, for the past 6 years and have personal priorities other than star-parties of late. I might ask you, where were you in 1972, 75, 78? I have done much public service in astronomy in this area, was a founding member of the first Hansen-planetarium-era club in this community. (and did quite a bit of hard work on the past, and current SPOC facility, too). If most of the recent members were not here when I was most active, that's not my fault either, and I again owe no apologies. I gave an explanation, but even that is not required. I've given far more to Utah astronomy than most club members over the years. There are many who have given more, to be sure, but my conscience is clear. I had hoped to bring some of the better club aspects from the past, to the present; I see now that is quite impossible. 3. I'm starting class next week and my posts will just about end completely; I am not unsubscribing but many digests will get deleted unread due to lack of time for many months. I do want to retain the resource however, if Cynthia will permit me to stay subscribed. I'm sure there will be much rejoicing. I will not question the status quo anymore. I belong to the past, the present is yours. This past winter I had an incredible experience that boosted me through my "mid-life crisis" and opened my eyes to many new things. I will no longer fight unimportant fights, my goals have changed dramatically, my health is excellent again, and for the first time in a long time, I am happy! Some of you have shared in those experiences, off list and personally with me. I thank you wholeheartedly and will see you again, and often, you know who you are. But part of the change for me means walking away from many "fights", the list lately has..."shifted columns on my spreadsheet of life", shall we say. Good bye, my friends and acquaintances. Those who wish are always welcome to contact me. My road leads elsewhere for now. Onward and upward! C. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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Why the hostility?
by Canopus56 02 Feb '05

02 Feb '05

> What is it that we're supposed to have done that > warrants the kind of hostility I'm reading about > the planetarium? I do not speak for SLAS, but will pass on my personal comments and experiences. If there are some points I making out of ignorance, Seth, please correct and educate me. 1) Clark is no longer a planetarium - it is a movie theater. As you have mentioned, that is by design in order to make the facility more financially self-supporting. The facility does not seem to engage the types of activities normally associated with public astronomy education - outside of elementary school slide shows and public movies. To my knowledge, it has no significant telescopes. Sales of movie tickets to IMAX NASCAR movies do not count as public astronomy education. The help at the sales desk are, for the most part, movie ushers, and have no knowledge or experience regarding astronomy or telescopes. There is one young man who works on Saturdays or Sundays who is quite knowledgable. Otherwise my experiences in buying basic telescope parts at the sales counter are: a) sales clerk did not know what a "red-dot" finder is. b) sales clerk did not know what the focal length of a telescope or eyepiece was. c) sales clerk did not know what a white-light solar filter was. d) sales clerk, when asked about scopes for sale in the lobbying, stated "I don't really know anything about those." e) all questions beyond "my I take your credit card number" are referred by telephone to your marketing director, who gives marketing-type answers and who seems uneducated in telescopes or astronomy in general. There is no staff presence on the general public floor that appears to have any knowledge of amateur astronomy. How can Clark fulfill its mission if people that the public has the most contact with are unknowledgable about telescopes or the night sky? 2) Clark does not appear to involve the local astronomy community in its operations and oversight. One SLAS member at a recent meeting commented that they went to the planetarium to volunteer. They had a college-level science education and are an intermediate or expert-level observer. The theatre's answer, as related to me by that member, was that they were "unsuitable" for the mission of the planetarium. Such a response is consistent, if the mission of the planetarium is simply be a movie theater and not a planetarium. As mentioned in this newsgroup, when the planetarium surplused one of its significant scopes, SLAS was not informed or allowed to bid. 3) What do you, as the Clark director, Clark's board or trustee's and/or citizens's advisory board, view as the proper roll of local astronomy clubs in the facility? Is there any official policy statement, board minutes or planning documents along these lines? What would be Clark's preferences for participation by local astronomy clubs, if any? 4) There are some areas of planetarium operations that I would appreciate being educated on in follow-up to your facility's presentation at the Nov. 2004 SLAS meeting. I understand that you have a county appointed of trustees and/or an advisory board. a) Who are the trustees and/or advisory board members? b) What are their backgrounds and education, particularly in science or astronomy? c) Are any of the SLAS members on the board(s)? d) How can I obtain a copy of your last annual report? e) How can I, or another SLAS member, place their name in line to be appointed to the board(s), when current members' terms expire? Seth, please do not take the above as overly harsh criticism. Some expression does not translate well through the media of email. Overall, everyone in the community, and myself personally, are proud of the facility. Again, my comments are made as an individual, and are not made on the behalf of and do not relfect the views of SLAS. Please feel free to contact via this group email setting or by direct email. Since, many SLAS members follow this newsgroup, a public response here would be appreciated. Kurt A. Fisher Salt Lake City, Utah __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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Utah Astronomy List Guidelines and Information
by Cynthia Blue 02 Feb '05

02 Feb '05

I thought now would be a good time to send these out again. I've meant to do so yearly, but I think it's been a while. Please read and keep these. Thank you all! Utah-Astronomy Email List Information ***** Please Retain this Message!!! **** This email message is an update and reminder of various aspects of email lists in general, and specifically the utah-astronomy email list. This will be sent out periodically for new members and old members alike. A few notes to remember when using an email list: 1. Please keep your post within the topic of Astronomy in Utah. If your post is outside this topic, it will still probably be accepted. However, if a discussion continues on an off-topic, a request to terminate the post will be sent by the list admin. 2. Please keep your posts civil! If you are not familiar with Netiquette, please visit this website for a review: http://www.onlinenetiquette.com/. Various topics may become heated on this list. If so, the list will be closely watched, and individuals who, by the List AdminÂ’s judgement, are not polite and courteous, will receive a personal email asking them to please tone their posts down. If you are angry, it is always best to wait 24 hours before you post anything! Thank you. 3. Please make sure that your email client is sending messages in a traditional text format; html email or other rich text styling only works on some email clients and would be a distraction to those who use traditional email software. 4. Please make sure you are posting to the correct address with the email address you have subscribed with. If you try to post with another email address, your message will not be posted. Rather, it will be bounced to the list administrator and you may receive a personal email with more information. 5. Please DO NOT forward on general information types of mails to the list such as virus warnings, boycott issues, or other such emails which may or may not have any basis in reality (even if you think they do). 6. If you change email addresses, please remember to unsubscribe with your old address and resubscribe with your new address. 6. For the subscribe/unsubscribe form, please visit the web page located at: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Please do NOT send subscribe/unsubscribe requests to utah-astronomy(a)lists.xmission.com. This is the list address and everyone on the list will receive your unsubscribe request. Thanks for being on the list! Cynthia S. owner-utah-astronomy(a)lists.xmission.com or lucyblue(a)xmission.com -- CH Pembroke Faded Glory NA NAJ NAC NAJ TN-N Elsinore Lucilla Aurelius CGC Angel Pumpkin Spice Lady CGC Spirit Chasers Spice http://www.utahdogs.com http://www.cynthiablue.net

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Sunspots
by Chuck Hards 02 Feb '05

02 Feb '05

Only one group near the center of the solar disk today, and pitifully small. A large group right on the western limb about to rotate out of view. I'm only using 50mm of aperture, and looking through double-paned office window with Baader material. Larger aperture and no intervening window may reveal more spots of the very small variety. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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Fwd: (astro) Cold Star Party
by Chuck Hards 02 Feb '05

02 Feb '05

Forwarded from Dan Burn of the UofU club: --- D Burn <D.Burn(a)m.cc.utah.edu> wrote: > Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2005 09:59:58 -0700 (MST) > From: D Burn <D.Burn(a)m.cc.utah.edu> > Subject: (astro) Cold Star Party > To: astro(a)physics.utah.edu > > Star Parties are still taking place on clear > Wednesday nights even though > there is a lack of emails advertising them. I think > tonight will be clear > so the observatory will open at 6 p.m. On these > cold nights we tend to > leave early so plan to arrive between 6 and 6:30. > The Orion Nebula is the > highlight this time of year! > > Coldily, > > Dan Burn > Dave Pawlowski > > > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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That bright thing in the sky
by Chuck Hards 02 Feb '05

02 Feb '05

Two sunspot groups visible on the surface today, widely separated. Easily seen at low powers. Sure is nice to see the sun again. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? All your favorites on one personal page Try My Yahoo! http://my.yahoo.com

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Re: Why the hostility?
by Chuck Hards 02 Feb '05

02 Feb '05

Director Jarvis, please don't confuse hostility with grand disappointment. Many of us are old enough to remember when Hansen opened it's doors, and that it was a much more freindly and open environment than Clark, or the final phases of Hansen. Could be that much of that atmosphere had to do with the style(s) of the staff at the time. The older staff apparently thought of themselves first and foremost as educators in a role of public outreach, administrators and government employees very much second, to the betterment of the community, IMO. I certainly felt that any tax dollars of mine going into the old institution were much better spent. I'm not naive enough to think that good teachers are a substitute for the bottom line, in the eyes of those who hold the purse-strings however. Pity. Any county rules that on the surface seem to forbid an association between an astronomical society and the planetarium can be undone, they are just words on paper and not physical barriers. Clearly other planetariums owned by a branch of governement in this state have thriving relationships with amateur astronomical clubs. It's not impossible, but it does require enthusiastic backing at top leadership levels and a desire by that leadership to make sure there are no policy barriers in the way. Also remember that SLAS was originally founded by Hansen Planetarium staff, who gradually turned over club administration to the membership as the roles grew and the workload increased. For the planetarium to now shrug it's shoulders, point to questionable polices and rental fees, and grin sheepishly seems like a cop-out to many of us. Remember that we are not "tin-foil hat" types standing around looking at the night sky hoping for UFOs to land. Some of us contribute to professional research, are serious astro-imagers, comet seekers, have been published, repeatedly, in Sky and Telescope. We put on star-parties for thousands of people yearly, all over the stated and intermountain area at large. Guy stated it well; it's the planetarium who stands to benefit the most from any partnership with SLAS or any other serious club. The current SLAS president has pointed out in this forum that it may be too late at this point due to history and the momentum of official disinterest at the planetarium. The horse has already escaped the corral and closing the gate now probably accomplishes nothing. It's pretty much up to you, sir, to change the environment at this point. Hopefully enough club members wouldn't hold a grudge and would be willing to come back but that remains to be seen. It really could be too late and perhaps a partnership with Leonardo is the best way to go. We shall see. Thanks for your time. Chuck Hards __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

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Big Scope first light?
by Patrick Wiggins 01 Feb '05

01 Feb '05

Tomorrow may not only be Groundhog Day, it may be Big Scope First Light Day. We got enough done on the Big Scope today that Bruce thinks there's a chance we'll have first light tomorrow (Wednesday) afternoon (?) / evening (?) / night (?). There's still a good bit of work to do so anyone interested in being a worker bee (worker geek?) should plan on showing up at SPOC at 3:00 pm. Links to images of today's work will be in tomorrow morning's News. Patrick

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