January 2005 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Comet
by Chuck Hards 09 Jan '05

09 Jan '05

I got a good view in the 20x70mm binos just after 10:00 pm tonight as a huge sucker-hole drifted over the valley. The comet is still just in the same field as the Pleiades in these binos, a great view. I find it about twice the size, visually, that it was last week when I last saw it. Wind is too much to set-up the photography outfit, and the storm is on our doorstep anyway. Let's hope Rob has some good karma tonight, for all of us. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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Re: Bills post
by Chuck Hards 08 Jan '05

08 Jan '05

Thanks, Bill, we needed the levity! At the star-parites, dark shapes with green lasers now kept in pockets (or closets...) "Football...how about those Bears?...(Tim the Toolman grunts....)" You'll never be able to look at your fellow astronomer quite the same way if they ever accidentaly sweep the beam over you.... Will people be denied medical insurance if they are known green-laser users? ROTFL! > From: William Biesele <bill(a)biesele.net> > To: Utah Astronomy > <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 19:07:55 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Re: When lasers are > outlawed, etc... > > BIting my tongue, no comment from me > > Sorry > > Bill B. > > > http://swiftreport.blogs.com/news/2005/01/aircraft_laser_.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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Re: When lasers are outlawed, etc.
by Chuck Hards 08 Jan '05

08 Jan '05

Hi Guy: Get your Kevlar vest on. I know the laser pointer is here to stay on the observing field (until the Homeland Security Czar takes them away...). -However- If more people come to star parties with GoTo telescopes and laser pointers, than without them, then they are there more for the techie stuff than the view through the eyepiece. Setting circles, digital or traditional, work just as well as a GoTo mount, but not nearly as "cool" to the gadget-happy consumer. If your desire is simply to "pack 'em in", hold a raffle, get a bikini-clad airhead to recline on your telescope, bring a keg, roast a pig! But don't get high and mighty about Technology the Liberator of Mankind. I'm not anti-technology, never said I was, but this is a specific case of inventing a need. From my perspective, the GoTo and laser technology does not make the visual astronomy experience better; this is strictly subjective and not empirical at all. I honestly can't relate to that claim and (sic) refuse to acknowledge it's validity. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion (humble though it may be...). Where you actually a scientist gathering data, or an imager with a target list, time would be at a premium and this argument would be valid, but as a "nature lover" and socialite it just isn't. >From your own statement it is clear that the star party itself and social interaction is the primary motivation here, not increasing one's working knowledge of the sky. May as well be in a philatetic society or book club. Sure, if the laser works to lure in recruits, OK, but it would be nice to actually teach people something useful. Yes, you point out the object quickly and easily, look really authoritative wielding it as you stab the sky with your light-sabre, but the next night most of those looking up that beam won't be able to remember where you pointed at all. Pity no-one pulled out a star chart and actually showed them how to delineate a constellation and use the stars themselves as a landmark, then helped them find it in the sky themselves. Give a man a fish and he eats for a day; teach a man to fish...well you know the rest. But it's quantity over quality, I forgot. There are exceptions of course, as Gary said, but these are rare individuals with a real desire to learn, and not typical. Don't worry, you probably won't have to give up your laser until someone pries it from your cold, dead hand. I come from a time when the astro-clubs were a gathering place for people genuinely interested in astronomy and related sciences, not just as an excuse to sit around in a lawn chair and shoot the breeze, holding court before the novices. I suppose that makes me an anachronism. And damn proud of it in this case. I'll post no more on this subject. > purchase telescopes or > otherwise become involved in astronomy doesn't > matter. What matters is that > they keep coming back night after night to engage > those of us who show up. > > I know, I know, with a manual scope or binoculars, > and a thorough knowledge > of the sky, who needs technology? It is 2005, and > while it's great to live > in a simpler less complicated time, technology is > here and it's here for a > reason. It is used to make things better. To help > make better use of time. > And whether that technology comes in the form of a > green laser, or a fully > computerized telescope, that will level and align > it'self, that will track > an object clear across the sky while you sit back > and drink coffee, or, > shoot the breeze with your friends, I believe that > regardless of it's form, > technology has a place at star parties...JMHO > > Guy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Green Pointers .
by astrodeb＠charter.net 08 Jan '05

08 Jan '05

I try to avoid green lasers when I'm looking for the really faint stuff. They tend to hinder my dark adaptation. When I'm looking for Kohoutek 1-22 this spring I want my eyes dark adapted as much as possible. In fact, I have some green laser light recorded on my film that I took this summer. It didn't exactly ruin the film but it didn't help either. With a digital SLR you just reshoot the frame and throw away the old one. Debbie > From: "Nathaniel Goodman" <ngoodman(a)lgcy.com> > Date: 2005/01/07 Fri PM 11:20:27 MST > To: "utah - astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Green Pointers . > > We really don't need Green Laser Pointers, for years I used a large Maglite Flashlight with a cardboard tube over the front to direct the beam. Interestingly enough I also found a Rayovac two C Cell flashlight with a supurb reflector type front lens, after buing one to keep in my car I purchased another and used it like I had the Maglite as a pointer. Also the cost was low and white flashlights are not or will probably never be on the Homeland SecurityTerror Patrol list, but Hey! I do admit that Green Lasers are very Hi-Tec and impress the younger wanabe astronomers at Public Star Viewing events. "Gentelmen ,we don't gotta show you no Green Lasers!" Nato. > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com >

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Re: Green Pointers .
by Nathaniel Goodman 07 Jan '05

07 Jan '05

We really don't need Green Laser Pointers, for years I used a large Maglite Flashlight with a cardboard tube over the front to direct the beam. Interestingly enough I also found a Rayovac two C Cell flashlight with a supurb reflector type front lens, after buing one to keep in my car I purchased another and used it like I had the Maglite as a pointer. Also the cost was low and white flashlights are not or will probably never be on the Homeland SecurityTerror Patrol list, but Hey! I do admit that Green Lasers are very Hi-Tec and impress the younger wanabe astronomers at Public Star Viewing events. "Gentelmen ,we don't gotta show you no Green Lasers!" Nato.

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Astronomy swap meet, Tuesday the 18th
by Patrick Wiggins 07 Jan '05

07 Jan '05

Jo Grahn has secured the spacious, downstairs meeting room of the Zion Lutheran Church, 1070 Foothill Dr. in SLC, for an astronomy swap meet the evening of Tuesday the 18th from 7 to 9 pm. Tables, chairs and warmth supplied by the venue. The meet is open to all and is not affiliated with any club. Clear skies (please), Patrick

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Re: When lasers are outlawed, etc...
by Chuck Hards 07 Jan '05

07 Jan '05

Brent, I was told some years ago that landing light bulbs tended to be on the pricey side and that also figured into why pilots try and minimize their use, at least for privately-owned aircraft. Any truth in that? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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Re: When lasers are outlawed, etc...
by Chuck Hards 07 Jan '05

07 Jan '05

Gary, if a laser pointer was truly instrumental in fanning the spark of your interest, then perhaps Kim is vindicated and I bow to the will of the masses. I'd think the star-party movers and shakers would feel gratified as well. Thanks for posting that perspective. > From: "Gary Thompson" <agaryt(a)mstar.net> > To: "Utah Astronomy" > <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2005 10:17:47 -0700 > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Re: When lasers are > outlawed, etc... > > Star Parties turned me on to astronomy in the last > few years. Though I > don't have a laser, I percieve them to be very > beneficial in showing a group > of people around the night sky. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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Re: When lasers are outlawed, etc...
by Chuck Hards 07 Jan '05

07 Jan '05

Kim, respectfully, you can't see the connection because you like using the laser and showing the sky to others. Not a bad thing at all, in fact rather noble and praiseworthy, but not an arguement in favor of laser pointers from my perspective. The long-term benefit is yours because you are doing something you enjoy. The teaching value in terms of retention is very questionable (at best) for the general public. Of the thousands of people who have ever attended a star party, how many actually continued to pursue the interest and/or join the club? A pitifully small percentage, even in the abscence of hard data, judging from the SLAS roster. Why do so many people fight traditional, proven teaching methods in favor of instant gratification, where most of the teaching effort is wasted in the long run? I would rather spend an hour working with one truly interested, committed beginner, than a hundred all-nighters with the general public whom will mostly never look up in wonder again. I would also disagree that having folks look through the "finder" (not exactly what I suggested, but close enough) isn't too time-consuming since they are lined-up at the main eyepiece anyway. Might add what, five or ten more seconds? It's not a race, it's not a contest. The night is long enough for all to have a look. There is time to stop and smell the Rosette... We do agree 100% on the "five-cell flashlight", keep those suckers in the trunk for tire-changes, and off the observing field. Finally, if one sees the lasers being used at "private" star parties, where it is assumed that most or all of the attendees are veterans, there is the proof that it's more of a toy than legitimate tool. I would prefer to keep the lasers under the planetarium dome, but then I'm a firm believer in the KISS principle and low-tech approaches whenever practical. Richard Proenneke is my hero. That's about a dime's worth, man am I getting long-winded in my old age... > From: "Kim Hyatt" <kimharch(a)msn.com> > To: "Utah Astronomy" > <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2005 19:42:03 -0700 > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Re: When lasers are > outlawed etc... > I can't see any connection between the use > of a laser and how well one learns or does not learn > the nighttime sky. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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Re: When lasers are outlawed etc...
by Chuck Hards 07 Jan '05

07 Jan '05

I was just about to buy a green laser pointer when the Salt Lake incident happened last fall. Recall that I was going to try and aim my red laser at Ann House's house and see if she could see it from across the valley...now I sure am glad that there was an obstruction in the path. I waited a bit to see what the fallout from the airport incident might be, and was about to order one again when this latest story broke. Now I'm not going to get one at all, maybe for years. I realized that I haven't needed one for decades and don't need one now- it's just a trendy gimmick. Want to show someone a particular object? Put a simple tube or gunsight-style finder on your telescope and let folks look through that. Armillery spheres work great for this also; I had one as a kid, and it, along with a set of star charts, performed flawlessly in teaching myself the constellations. Both methods have the added advantage of demonstrating diurnal motion and the effect of latitude on sky orientation and the visibility of the southern sky, as well as using the celestial coordinate system of right ascension and declination if the telescope has an equatorial mount. Folks who make the effort to learn the sky the old-fashioned way will probably be the ones who stick with it the longest and reap the greatest benefits. It's also more FUN and INTERESTING, not a chore at all. Those who want instant gratification won't recall anything as soon as you turn off the laser; you're wasting your time in most instances. I also think that most owners will forget about the laser once the novelty wears off. On another point, I think the big difference between a laser and a searchlight, where the effect can be the same in this instance, is that the laser is easily concealed. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com

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