November 2004 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: Re: [Utah-astronomy] The other side
by Michael Carnes 15 Nov '04

15 Nov '04

Hi Joe, CYA is "Cover your ..." You said you were a deck-hand once. I'm sure you've filled in the rest of it by now. I largely agree with the rest of what you've said. I think where NASA has excelled has been the "one-off" projects where a lot of new technology has been tried. This would include many of the planetary missions. I think much of what was learned in materials development, programming, robotics, orbital mechanics has then been useful input to commercial enterprise (well, maybe not the orbital mechanics). They've also taught us many exciting things we didn't know or suspect. The over-and-over stuff like the shuttle and ISS are where the beaurocratic tendencies blow up and the payoff is low--except to contractors. I'd love to take that trip to Mars. Think of the frequent flyer miles you'd rack up. But once you begin to evaluate the risks and unknowns, I think you see that we're looking at robots for quite some time. I know I'm veering off-topic a little here. One of the things that Bob Zubrin and his nutty followers miss is the fact of muscular atrophy after a few months in zero-G. I read Jerry Linengar's book about being on Mir, written about a year after he got back. At that point, he was STILL experiencing loss of strength and muscle mass. Good thing Mars is populated by physical therapists that will help the astronauts get back in shape when they get there. Luckily my skepticism about things said by our current administration kept me from actually believing we'd try to send people to Mars. I don't think it was put forward with any seriousness and like most purely political statements it will go away all by itself. My most generous interpretation is that is was an attempt to put the kabosh on a number of more hopeless NASA projects. ------------------------------------------- OK, Sorry for my ignorance, but what's CYA mode? Also, while we are listing disastrous programs, let's not forget Alliant TechSystems and Dugway Proving Ground were heavily involved with the X-33 fiasco......

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Re: Re: [Utah-astronomy] The other side
by astrodeb＠charter.net 15 Nov '04

15 Nov '04

> > From: Michael Carnes <moogiebird(a)earthlink.net> > Date: 2004/11/15 Mon AM 08:21:02 MST > To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] The other side > > Excellent article! I wish more people with experience in the NASA culture would speak out like this. It's been clear for years (since before it went up) that ISS would be a useless white elephant. The Shuttle and ISS are co-dependent: neither has any purpose at all without the other. NASA has always had a mixed mission that it couldn't fulfill. It has military goals, political goals and the odd scientific goal here and there. It's turned into a bloated mess that seems to exist only to sustain itself. I don't know if it can be saved or if we have to start over. There have clearly been marvelous accomplishments--Hubble, Viking, Voyager, many Mars missions--but they represent a shrinking portion of the NASA budget. The main goal of NASA seems to be to launch the flying turkeys once again. What will it take to get NASA out of CYA mode? > > Michael > > Take NASA out of the government into the private sector to get it out of CYA mode. I totally agree that ISS is a waste of tax dollars. All they do up there is fix broken equipment. And to think the government wants to take over health care? I'll leave the country before they handle my health care. The days of conservative, limited, responsible government are long gone. My 2 Cents, Debbie > Here's a look at the other side of some NASA mission: > > http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-04zh.html > > Note that I'm not necessarily taking sides there. Just seemed look a good piece > to start some interesting debate. > > Patrick > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com >

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The other side
by Patrick Wiggins 15 Nov '04

15 Nov '04

Here's a look at the other side of some NASA mission: http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-04zh.html Note that I'm not necessarily taking sides there. Just seemed look a good piece to start some interesting debate. Patrick

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] The other side
by Michael Carnes 15 Nov '04

15 Nov '04

Excellent article! I wish more people with experience in the NASA culture would speak out like this. It's been clear for years (since before it went up) that ISS would be a useless white elephant. The Shuttle and ISS are co-dependent: neither has any purpose at all without the other. NASA has always had a mixed mission that it couldn't fulfill. It has military goals, political goals and the odd scientific goal here and there. It's turned into a bloated mess that seems to exist only to sustain itself. I don't know if it can be saved or if we have to start over. There have clearly been marvelous accomplishments--Hubble, Viking, Voyager, many Mars missions--but they represent a shrinking portion of the NASA budget. The main goal of NASA seems to be to launch the flying turkeys once again. What will it take to get NASA out of CYA mode? Michael Here's a look at the other side of some NASA mission: http://www.spacedaily.com/news/oped-04zh.html Note that I'm not necessarily taking sides there. Just seemed look a good piece to start some interesting debate. Patrick _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Re: Re: [Utah-astronomy] More on aurora
by astrodeb＠charter.net 11 Nov '04

11 Nov '04

Bill, Can you send me your pictures of the aurora? My skies are too cloudy to see anything. It doesn't look good for tonight but I will take a look this evening. How long were your exposures? Debbie > From: William Biesele <bill(a)biesele.net> > Date: 2004/11/08 Mon AM 03:22:33 MST > To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] More on aurora > > Thanks for the heads up Josephine. Got your email and went outside - > cloudy. So checked on the web and it looked like the clouds would end > at about the Idaho border. Loaded up the cameras and set out. Clouds > started to break about Ogden and the aurora was visible from about > Brigham north; but I thought it was more clouds so we kept going north. > Stopped at a rest stop just north of the border where I finally figured > out it wasn't clouds in the north but the aurora. Pulled over just > north of Malad and we were treated to a great show. At the peak the > aurora went from Cygnus in the northwest to Gemini in the northeast and > up over Cas overhead. Reds and greens; ray and waves; quite a sight!! > Spent about an hour up there taking watching the show and taking > pictures; then clouds started moving in from the southeast and we came > back home. > > Thanks again > > Bill B. > > > On Nov 7, 2004, at 9:09 PM, Joe Bauman wrote: > > > Hi friends, I just drove to Little Mountain and it was so cloudy that > > I don't know if I saw any auroras. There were unusual bands overhead > > where it was otherwise fairly cloudless and some bright places to the > > north and east. So I shot a roll of film on the basis that maybe my > > eyes weren't color sensitive enough at night after driving -- if there > > were any auroras I think they should show up on the film. Did anyone > > else see anything? thanks, Joe > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com >

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Thoughts from Burt Rutan
by Patrick Wiggins 10 Nov '04

10 Nov '04

His thoughts on getting 4,000 people into space in the next 4 years. http://www.spacedaily.com/news/xprize-04zq.html Patrick

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Mark Meadows has passed away
by ziggy943＠xmission.com 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

To All: I just received an email from Bruce that our good friend at Harmons, Mark Meadows has passed away. Mark was our main contact at Harmons and key in obtaining the monies that started the Harmons Observatory. The funeral is this Thursday at 12:00 Noon at Harvest Park Ward, 3671 S. 4180 West. We will miss him greatly. Siegfried

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Photo Album Update
by Naz & David 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

Lucy, Thanks very much for your efforts - I for one will be sending a contribution to help you. PS don't like the dashed line frames, any chance they can be solid ;) Cheers David Author: lucyblue Date: 2004-11-07 11:462004-11-07 18:46 -700UTC To: Utah Astronomy Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Photo Album Update Okay, photo album is back, but I couldn't figure out how to get the users to reload. So, you can see the pictures, but I'm not going to set up new users until tomorrow. :) I will let you know of your new username and password. Thanks! http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Photo Album Update
by Naz & David 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

Oh dear (blush). I apologise Cynthia, need to put my brain in gear when sending emails. Cheers David Author: Cynthia Blue Date: 2004-11-08 08:092004-11-08 15:09 -700UTC To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Photo Album Update He he picky picky. :) Yes I can actually change that! Might even be able to do it from here at work I'll have to see. Oh, and my real name is Cynthia... my dog's name is Lucy and I hide behind her identity a lot. ;) Cyn Naz & David wrote: > Lucy, > > Thanks very much for your efforts - I for one will be sending a contribution to help you. > > PS don't like the dashed line frames, any chance they can be solid ;) > > Cheers > > David

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Aurora Photos
by Susan Biesele 09 Nov '04

09 Nov '04

Hi. This is "Bill's wife" - Susan : - ) The aurora was one of the most incredible things I've seen. I'm so glad we jumped in the Tundra and headed out to find a clearer sky. Thanks for the compliments on my photos David. You asked what my set up was --- I have a Canon Powershot G 3 digital camera. It was on a tripod (of course). I set it for shutter speed priority, and mostly had it open for 15 seconds. Some I did for 10 seconds. The aperture, at 15 seconds, was 2.0. This is with a focal lens of 7.2 mm. Some of them really turned out pretty, if I do say so myself. Did you notice the ones with the big dipper in the middle? It's faint, but you can see it. What a night. One I will remember! Susan The URL for the photos, for those who didn't see them from Bill's post: http://www.biesele.net/tempWeb/Aurora/index.html

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