January 2004 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Rover egress: Yikes!
by Patrick Wiggins 11 Jan '04

11 Jan '04

Today's NASA press briefing included video of an engineering model (exact copy) of the Mars rover. They had it on a lander platform last night situated like the one on Mars is (about 45 to 50 cm off the deck). The rover did a little pirouette, turning abut 120 degrees to the egress position and then started down the ramp. Turns out the ramp is at about a 45 degree incline and once the rover's weight was on it the incline increased and the rover lurched over forward. Augh! It didn't tumble and the narrator didn't even mention it but it sure caused me to catch my breath. Patrick (aka Nervous Nellie)

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Re: Bush OKs new moon missions
by Patrick Wiggins 10 Jan '04

10 Jan '04

Hi, Jim Gibson wrote: > > A couple of curiosity points caught my eye. My understanding of the current > theory > for a trip to mars would take about 2 years; six month to get there, wait a > year or so for > the right alignment of mars and earth and then six months to return. FWIW, I've heard the first trip would be about three years, including 8 months each way travel time. However, a day or so ago there was a piece on NASA TV that said that could be cut back to one year total if nuclear propulsion could be perfected. > The first manned Mars expeditions would attempt to orbit the red > planet in advance of landings -- much as Apollo 8 and 10 orbited > the moon but did not land. I have not heard that. All the recent discussion (again, on NASA TV) involves a landing. > The other thing that I am wondering comes from this statement: > Bush will direct NASA to scale back or scrap all existing > programs that do not support the new effort. There are already a lot of people in planetary exploration that think too much of the NASA pie is being spent on ISS. I'm not sure about that but do wonder where the hundreds of billions it will cost to go back to the Moon and on to Mars will come from if we (the US) try to do this alone. Personally I hope will be an international effort. Patrick (speaking for myself and not as a NASA volunteer)

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] Bush OKs new moon missions
by James Helsby 10 Jan '04

10 Jan '04

Perhaps the return trip will be accelerated by a slingshot. Or else, maybe some new ion drive system is (was / will be) in the works by that time. I know I first joined this list (and consequently found out about SLAS via a question I had regarding a new drive system called MORPHEUS, perhaps something along those lines is in the serious planning stages.) All speculations aside, even if it takes an extra 6 months to get the crew back to earth, wouldn't that 6 months be worth it? If not just for the crew, but for the science it could produce. Imagine actually doing scientific experiments in a true interplanetary micrograv, or measurements of the Lagrange point. The second point, about scrapping new projects, frightens the beegeebus (sic) out of me. I can't imagine that projects like HUBBLE2, or the WEBB would be scrapped, when they are in essence an essential part of the mars exploration program. (both have the capability of monitoring mars for the right conditions, etc.) Cheers, James. -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces+cyanics=xmission.com(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces+cyanics=xmission.com@mailman.xmission.com ] On Behalf Of Jim Gibson Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2004 6:52 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bush OKs new moon missions Patrick Thanks for the great post. It was all very interesting. A couple of curiosity points caught my eye. My understanding of the current theory for a trip to mars would take about 2 years; six month to get there, wait a year or so for the right alignment of mars and earth and then six months to return. So this statement got me curious: The first manned Mars expeditions would attempt to orbit the red planet in advance of landings -- much as Apollo 8 and 10 orbited the moon but did not land. If they just orbit mars and then turn around to come back, the earth will be long gone. Any comments? The other thing that I am wondering comes from this statement: Bush will direct NASA to scale back or scrap all existing programs that do not support the new effort. It's sounds to me like the Webb (infra red space telescope) project may get scrapped. The first report has to be sketchy. I am sure this will all be worked out. Sounds exciting though. Jim _____ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/hotjobs/mail_footer_email/ev t=21482/*http:/hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus> the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] Bush OKs new moon missions
by Dale Hooper 10 Jan '04

10 Jan '04

I'm certainly just speculating here - but I think that statement referred to other manned missions (other than ISS). So, I think this means a cancellation of shuttle science missions. The danger would be that perhaps this would also mean no additional Hubble service missions. It's definitely possible that they might mess with the unmanned budget - but I agree that this would be a major mistake. Dale. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Gibson [mailto:xajax99@yahoo.com] Sent: Sat 1/10/2004 6:52 AM To: Utah Astronomy Cc: Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bush OKs new moon missions The other thing that I am wondering comes from this statement: Bush will direct NASA to scale back or scrap all existing programs that do not support the new effort. It’s sounds to me like the Webb (infra red space telescope) project may get scrapped. The first report has to be sketchy. I am sure this will all be worked out. Sounds exciting though. Jim _____ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/hotjobs/mail_footer_email/evt=2…>

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bush OKs new moon missions
by DunnDave＠aol.com 10 Jan '04

10 Jan '04

My understanding is that the Webb project is essential to the search for planets and life. We were told that this was NASAs new direction so I doubt that it would be dropped. Dave

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Need help taping NASA TV
by DunnDave＠aol.com 10 Jan '04

10 Jan '04

Patrick, I could record them on PVR and then dump them to a tape for you if you someone else hasn't volunteered yet. Is it 9am local? How long do they run? Dave

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] Bush: Back to Moon
by Paul Witte 10 Jan '04

10 Jan '04

I would hate to see this forum turn into a political slam-fest like I've seen happen on so many other internet forums, it gets old real fast. I guess my point was just please try to play nice. :) ---------- From: David L Bennett Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:33 PM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bush: Back to Moon I think it's safe to say that both sides of the political spectrum are represented here... > I just wanted to say, in reference to your last comment, that I hope > you don't assume everyone on this email list agrees with your > political views. Because such an attitude would be a symptom of > collosal narrow-mindedness. ____________________________________________________________ >> Oh joy. The republicans must be so excited, a new planet to extort. >> Democrats are also excited - another planet to tax. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Need help taping NASA TV
by Patrick Wiggins 09 Jan '04

09 Jan '04

It looks like I'm going to be away from NASA TV Monday through Friday of this coming week. Is there anyone on this list that gets NASA TV and would be willing to tape the 9 am Mars briefings during that period? Please!?!?! Patrick

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] Bush: Back to Moon
by Dale Hooper 09 Jan '04

09 Jan '04

Actually, its called Helium-3. For example, see: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/helium3_000630.html > -----Original Message----- > From: Chuck Hards [mailto:chuckhards@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 11:04 AM > To: Utah Astronomy > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bush: Back to Moon > > > > --- David Dunn <david.dunn(a)albertsons.com> wrote: > > > I also remember watching a show on Discovery where > > an astronaut talked about > > mining for fuel on the Moon. If I remember > > correctly, he said that a shuttle > > cargo bay full of this material would provide for > > the energy needs of the > > USA for a year. > > Wow, then it's got to be Uranium (or Dilithium > Crystals!)... > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com > >

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Bush OKs new moon missions
by Patrick Wiggins 09 Jan '04

09 Jan '04

Bush OKs new moon missions (Forwarded) Thursday, January 8, 2004, 7:30 PM EST UPI Exclusive: Bush OKs new moon missions By Frank Sietzen Jr. and Keith L. Cowing United Press International WASHINGTON (UPI) -- American astronauts will return to the moon early in the next decade in preparation for sending crews to explore Mars and nearby asteroids, President Bush is expected to propose next week as part of a sweeping reform of the U.S. space program. To pay for the new effort -- which would require a new generation of spacecraft but use Europe's Ariane rockets and Russia's Soyuz capsules in the interim -- NASA's space shuttle fleet would be retired as soon as construction of the International Space Station is completed, senior administration sources told United Press International. The visionary new space plan would be the most ambitious project entrusted to the National Aeronautics and Space Administration since the Apollo moon landings of three decades ago. It commits the United States to an aggressive and far-reaching mission that holds interplanetary space as the human race's new frontier. Sources said Bush's impending announcement climaxes an unprecedented review of NASA and of America's civilian space goals -- manned and robotic. The review has been proceeding for nearly a year, involving closed-door meetings under the supervision of Vice President Dick Cheney, sources said. The administration examined a wide range of ideas, including new, reusable space shuttles and even exotic concepts such as space elevators. To begin the initiative, the president will ask Congress for a down payment of $800 million for fiscal year 2005, most of which will go to develop new robotic space vehicles and begin work on advanced human exploration systems. Bush also plans to ask Congress to boost NASA's budget by 5 percent annually over at least the next five years, with all of the increase supporting space exploration. With the exception of the Departments of Defense and Homeland Security, no other agency is expected to receive a budget increase above inflation in FY 2005. Along with retiring the shuttle fleet, the new plan calls for NASA to convert a planned follow-on spacecraft -- called the orbital space plane -- into versions of a new spaceship called the crew exploration vehicle. NASA would end substantial involvement in the space station project about the same time the moon landings would begin -- beginning in 2013, according to an administration timetable shown to UPI. The first test flights of unmanned prototypes of the CEV could occur as soon as 2007. An orbital version would replace the shuttle to transport astronauts to and from the space station. However, sources said, the current timetable leaves a period several years when NASA would lack manned space capability -- hence the need to use Soyuz vehicles for flights to the station. Ariane rockets also might be used to launch lunar missions. During the remainder of its participation in space station activities, NASA's research would be redirected to sustaining humans in space. Other research programs not involving humans would be terminated or curtailed. The various models of the CEV would be 21st century versions of the 1960s Apollo spacecraft. When they become operational, they would be able to conduct various missions in Earth orbit, travel to and land on the moon, send astronauts to rendezvous with nearby asteroids, and eventually serve as part of a series of manned missions to Mars. Under the current plan, sources said, the first lunar landings would carry only enough resources to test advanced equipment that would be employed on voyages beyond the moon. Because the early moon missions would use existing rockets, they could deliver only small equipment packages. So the initial, return-to-the-moon missions essentially would begin where the Apollo landings left off -- a few days at a time, growing gradually longer. The human landings could be both preceded and accompanied by robotic vehicles. The first manned Mars expeditions would attempt to orbit the red planet in advance of landings -- much as Apollo 8 and 10 orbited the moon but did not land. The orbital flights would conduct photo reconnaissance of the Martian surface before sending landing craft, said sources familiar with the plan's details. Along with new spacecraft, NASA would develop other equipment needed to allow humans to explore other worlds, including advanced spacesuits, roving vehicles and life support equipment. As part of its new space package, sources said, the administration will convene an unusual presidential commission to review NASA's plans as they unfold. The group would consider such factors as the design of the spacecraft; the procedure for assembly, either in Earth orbit or lunar orbit; the individual elements the new craft should contain, such as capsules, supply modules, landing vehicles and propellant stages, and the duration and number of missions and size of crews. Sources said Bush will direct NASA to scale back or scrap all existing programs that do not support the new effort. Further details about the plan and the space agency's revised budget will be announced in NASA briefings next week and when the president delivers his FY 2005 budget to Congress. [Frank Sietzen Jr. covers aerospace issues for UPI Science News. Keith L. Cowing is editor of NASAWatch.com and SpaceRef.com . E-mail sciencemail(a)upi.com] Copyright © 2004 United Press International. All rights reserved.

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