September 2003 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

RE: [Utah-astronomy] I'd be happy with just ONE!
by Kim Hyatt 17 Sep '03

17 Sep '03

Thanks for sharing that article Dale. I don't mean to be a complainer, but it seems the days for visual discoveries of virtually anything are almost gone. Amateurs with the means to acquire automated equipment, CCD imagers and even remotely controlled observatories are making the discoveries. However, the rest of us should never give up! -----Original Message----- From: Dale Hooper [mailto:Dale.Hooper@sdl.usu.edu] Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2003 9:26 AM To: Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: [Utah-astronomy] I'd be happy with just ONE! <http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/science/nature/3112508.stm> I'd be happy with just ONE discovery! But this also gives me hope - because I've seen how cloudy the skies are in the UK - and at least two of their 6 telescopes appear to be stock Meade and Celestron scopes. Clear skies, Dale. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy

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I'd be happy with just ONE!
by Dale Hooper 17 Sep '03

17 Sep '03

<http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/em/fr/-/2/hi/science/nature/3112508.stm> I'd be happy with just ONE discovery! But this also gives me hope - because I've seen how cloudy the skies are in the UK - and at least two of their 6 telescopes appear to be stock Meade and Celestron scopes. Clear skies, Dale.

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Coma
by DunnDave＠aol.com 16 Sep '03

16 Sep '03

Brent, Chuck and Dave, Thanks for the comments. I probably ought to have you look at it with me. I am able to get round stars with flares. When I attempt a star test it looks round when the collimation is correct. This makes me wonder what I am seeing. I see the problem at it's worst when viewing a bright star or planet. For example, I was 78 - 406X. I could get a good focus on the planet and could see good surface detail. The planet was surrounded by a halo of light that seemed to be oscallating, possibly by my eye moving around. Bright stars never appear to come to focus even when other stars appear to be points. When I first set up the scope at Monte I discovered that the secondary was not centered in the tube. Since I used a laser to collimate, I was able to tip both mirrors and get good images of galaxies and nebula. Stars and planets were awful. I have fixed the allignment problem and now just have the halo, which I think made Mars look like a comet with a big nucleous. Dave

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Coma
by DunnDave＠aol.com 16 Sep '03

16 Sep '03

If I remember correctly, the figure on this mirror has a deep center and a little TDE. What causes spherical abberation? Dave

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Coma
by DunnDave＠aol.com 16 Sep '03

16 Sep '03

Does anyone have any expirience with Coma Correctors? My newly completed 16" f/5 has coma. I would appreciate any advise anyone might have on how to deal with coma. The Lumicon and TelVue correctors are several hundred dollars so I don't want to just buy one to experiment. Thanks. Dave

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] Sound waves reported by NASA
by Kim Hyatt 13 Sep '03

13 Sep '03

I didn't notice in NASA's story, but on NPR last night they actually said the note was a B-flat, albeit 57 octaves lower than the B-flat near middle-C. I find NASA's attempts to dumb-down such findings by relating them to our everyday experiences very annoying. Can anyone relate to a "sound" wave that is 50+ octaves lower than the threshold of human hearing? Why not call the phenomenon what it is (as you have all clarified): a pressure wave. "Sound," "acoustics" and such terms make no sense without an observer, in this case an observer with the ability to hear the sound. If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one there to hear it, does the tree exist? Let's see if Mr. Wizard is a conductor...

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Sound waves reported by NASA
by cyanics＠xmission.com 10 Sep '03

10 Sep '03

Joe, Excellent topic :-) I will throw in my 2-cents. It is a pressure wave, but pressure waves and sound waves are the same phenomena. They both work by compression and rarification of a material. It is also true that most gas clouds are empty space, as you said, but in truth nearly everything is completely empty space (space between atoms, covalent bonds, shared orbitals, etc). The phenomena occurs, because the pressure wave is formed by the actual collision of atoms along the path of propagation. Hence, because of the laws of thermo-dynamics, the impact is propagation is nearly perfect with relation to the speed of impact. If a single hydrogen is a accelerated, and eventually collides with another hydrogen, the resulting acceleration will be nearly perfect to the original velocity. This entire process is how star systems are made. As we all know, everything starts with the large Mag. clouds we watch in the sky each night. As one of these pressure waves passes through the cloud, areas condense, causing an increase in local gravity. Enough of these density pockets occur, then gravity is yet increase further. Eventually, this is the catalyst that creates every star and planet, the gas cloud becomes dense enough and hot enough to pass into proto-star phase, radiating nearly exclusively infrared. So, hopefully this is enough info to answer the quandary. If not, just call on good old Dr. science james (still student at the U with contacts in the Physics department) Another interesting note, on passing, this "sound wave" stuff is the same reason we have spiral arms. The stars in the arm don't move as is thought, instead, the pressure wave eminating from the center of the galaxy, causes a spiral to form from the compression and rarfication on a 100-light-year wide scale. Gotta love the unknown. Cheers, James Helsby Quoting Chuck Hards <chuckhards(a)yahoo.com>: > This should make it easier for Joe to believe that > it's truly a pressure-wave phenomemon. I was merely > speaking off the cuff, not attempting to truly > quantify the interstellar density. Hard to be precise > when at work with my mind wrapped around composites > instead of astro-physics. > > Thanks > > C. > > --- Paul Gettings <gettings(a)mines.utah.edu> wrote: > > On 10-Sep-03 8:25, Chuck Hards wrote: > > > The process is mechanical, the same as sound in > > the > > > human range, even though the individual molecules > > are > > > kilometers apart. You are thinking correctly > > about > > In space, the density of molecules is closer to tens > > to millions per cubic > > meter, not km. In the region of a gas cloud, the > > density would be many > > thousands to millions of particles per cubic meter. > > Only in the deepest > > part of intergalactic space could the density drop > > near the particle/km^3. > > > > Hence, it is not very difficult to propogate a > > pressure wave by mechanical > > interactions. The propogation speed (speed of > > sound) is _very_ low > > compared to a normal atmosphere; very easy to go > > Mach 1! :) > > > > -- > > 101 USES FOR A DEAD MICROPROCESSOR > > (100) Killer velcro > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > > > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy >

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Sound waves reported by NASA
by Joe Bauman 10 Sep '03

10 Sep '03

Hi all, I have a question that bothers me a little about this release from NASA: http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/09sep_blackholesounds.htm?list726251 The argument is that the structures seen by Chandra around a supermassive black hole in the Perseus Cluster are evidence of sound waves booming through the surrounding gas. The sound waves "sweep across hundreds of thousands of light years," the Chandra folks say at: http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2003/perseus/more.html. The problem I have is that surely, those hundreds of thousands of light years encompass mostly vacuum. What mechanism could allow an excited gas atom 300 miles away from the next atom to pass along sound? Doesn't it require physical contact? If not, I guess those old Flash Gordon movies were right after all, and we should hear the buzz as those sparkler-driven spaceships cruise the interstellar medium. Thanks, Joe Joe Bauman science & military reporter Deseret News bau(a)desnews.com (801) 237-2169

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Harmon's appreciation star party
by Kim Hyatt 05 Sep '03

05 Sep '03

Thanks to everyone (especially Roger Ockey) who has tried so hard to accommodate a Harmon's appreciation star party on a busy weekend, but... If you've seen the weather forecast it doesn't' look good for tonight. Therefore, Harmon's has already cancelled/postponed the event to allow them to get the word to everyone. I checked both calendars (SLAS and Observatory) and saw nothing scheduled for Friday the 19th, so I told Harmon's we would reschedule for that night. Because of the later date, I suggested that we begin at 8:00 with a slide presentation for anyone interested, followed of course by telescope observing. Harmon's has (finally) told me to expect around 100 persons. The media will no doubt continue to hype the Mars opposition, so that number could easily double. Any help would be appreciated. Please RSVP to me (Kim Hyatt) if you will be available to help. Thanks, again! Roger: If you still plan to do something with the Scouts tonight, please let me know. I would be glad to help. Kim A. Hyatt, AIA SL&A Architects 331 South Rio Grande, Suite 304 Salt Lake City, Utah 84101 Tel: 801.322.5550 x122 Fax: 801.322.5557

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Star Party at Jerry Foote's September 25,26, and27
by UTAHDEB＠aol.com 05 Sep '03

05 Sep '03

Great. I'll try to stay healthy until then. By the way, I think I need the directions again and Jerry's phone number. Debbie

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