(usr-tc) And you thought you were frustrated with 3COM
Is anyone else here on the Ascend users list? Whew - there are some VERY angry people on that list. While I have never had to go to Lucent for support, what these people are describing makes things at 3COM look bright and sunny. Top-tier engineering support calls being ignored. Technicians who don't know the products. RMA and warranty claims not being addressed. It's worse than any complaints I've seen on the 3COM list. I *was* considering picking up some Ascend gear to compliment my 3COM stuff, but I am seriously reconsidering that. So, what's left - Ci$co? Are they the only company that provides the kind of support ISP's need? They usually seem to do most everything right. I don't know -- think I'll stick it out with 3COM and see if all of the newly found resources available from the drop of their switches actually *does* go into the ISP/Carrier division. -- Scot - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
Also sprach Scot Desort
Is anyone else here on the Ascend users list?
Whew - there are some VERY angry people on that list. While I have never had to go to Lucent for support, what these people are describing makes things at 3COM look bright and sunny. Top-tier engineering support calls being ignored. Technicians who don't know the products. RMA and warranty claims not being addressed. It's worse than any complaints I've seen on the 3COM list.
I *was* considering picking up some Ascend gear to compliment my 3COM stuff, but I am seriously reconsidering that. So, what's left - Ci$co? Are they the only company that provides the kind of support ISP's need?
Yeah, pretty much...but their modems suck swamp water through a straw. I've always said I'd love to have 3Com's modems, with Cisco's routing capabilities. Ah, what I wouldn't give for a new version of the AS5100. -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm@iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456 - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
Looking to buy 1 DSP card w/NIC. Need ASAP. Contact me offline or call 1-877-425-7421 ext.10 -- Richard Lorbieski - richard@alpha1.net Chief Technical Officer - Senior System Administrator Alpha1 Internet http://www.alpha1.net 409.731.8236 - 877.4.alpha1 (877.425.7421) - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
We have brand new Hiper DSP's NIC/NAC set available for $3750 a card set (24 modems) or $7250 for 48 modems. At 11:13 AM 6/1/00 -0500, you wrote:
Looking to buy 1 DSP card w/NIC. Need ASAP. Contact me offline or call 1-877-425-7421 ext.10
--
Richard Lorbieski - richard@alpha1.net Chief Technical Officer - Senior System Administrator Alpha1 Internet http://www.alpha1.net 409.731.8236 - 877.4.alpha1 (877.425.7421)
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David DenHollander (403)254-1100 Main (403)201-2815 Fax List your equipment for free http://www.adoptable.com/ - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
At 11:43 AM 6/1/00 -0400, Jeff Mcadams wrote:
Yeah, pretty much...but their modems suck swamp water through a straw. I've always said I'd love to have 3Com's modems, with Cisco's routing capabilities. Ah, what I wouldn't give for a new version of the AS5100.
I've heard some good things about Patton's boxes, but have no first-hand experience with them. I don't think they currently have anything to match TC's modem density, but I believe they have some stuff in the works to rectify that. -- Kirk Mitchell-General Manager mitch@keyconn.net Keystone Connect Unlock Your World Altoona, PA 814-941-5000 http://www.keyconn.net - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
Rigt now they have 96 port 1U rackmounts. I have some of their 2800's (24 DSP's 1 PRI/T1) and it works well. Support is not 24/7 but they do respond to e-mail/calls. I have 3 in service and they seem to work as well as 3Com. One good thing is that they have KFlex support with the v.90. Most low end PC's have kFLEX/v.90 modems... so you have 2x the chance of getting a connection (v.90->kFLEX) rather then just v.90 then v.34 as on the TC. They are priced right.... $1200 or so less than a DSP. Paul Farber Farber Technology farber@admin.f-tech.net Ph 570-628-5303 Fax 570-628-5545 On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, K Mitchell wrote:
At 11:43 AM 6/1/00 -0400, Jeff Mcadams wrote:
Yeah, pretty much...but their modems suck swamp water through a straw. I've always said I'd love to have 3Com's modems, with Cisco's routing capabilities. Ah, what I wouldn't give for a new version of the AS5100.
I've heard some good things about Patton's boxes, but have no first-hand experience with them. I don't think they currently have anything to match TC's modem density, but I believe they have some stuff in the works to rectify that.
-- Kirk Mitchell-General Manager mitch@keyconn.net Keystone Connect Unlock Your World Altoona, PA 814-941-5000 http://www.keyconn.net
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How can anyone say the Smartnet and 3Com support is worth the money? I swear they make a living not off the products but by the support contracts. Do you LIKE to pay over and over for the same buggy code? Do you LIKE having NO support whatsoever if you don't pay for it? Do you LIKE being held hostage to crappy hardware warrany's? CISCO has a 90 day warrany.. that 's it. Is thier gear that crappy that they will only stand behind it for 90 days before you have to pay for it? 3Com has 5 year on DSP's.... but it take two weeks to get it back? Face it... there are better companies out there.... 3Com and CISCO may have the name recognition that the CTO/CEO likes... but tell them the TOTAL cost for a 3 year lifespan and see if they don't want to look for alternatives. Paul Farber Farber Technology farber@admin.f-tech.net Ph 570-628-5303 Fax 570-628-5545 On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Jeff Mcadams wrote:
Also sprach Scot Desort
Is anyone else here on the Ascend users list?
Whew - there are some VERY angry people on that list. While I have never had to go to Lucent for support, what these people are describing makes things at 3COM look bright and sunny. Top-tier engineering support calls being ignored. Technicians who don't know the products. RMA and warranty claims not being addressed. It's worse than any complaints I've seen on the 3COM list.
I *was* considering picking up some Ascend gear to compliment my 3COM stuff, but I am seriously reconsidering that. So, what's left - Ci$co? Are they the only company that provides the kind of support ISP's need?
Yeah, pretty much...but their modems suck swamp water through a straw. I've always said I'd love to have 3Com's modems, with Cisco's routing capabilities. Ah, what I wouldn't give for a new version of the AS5100. -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm@iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456
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On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Jeff Mcadams wrote:
I *was* considering picking up some Ascend gear to compliment my 3COM stuff, but I am seriously reconsidering that. So, what's left - Ci$co? Are they the only company that provides the kind of support ISP's need?
Yeah, pretty much...but their modems suck swamp water through a straw. I've always said I'd love to have 3Com's modems, with Cisco's routing capabilities. Ah, what I wouldn't give for a new version of the AS5100.
That would be really slick. Gimme the ability to put modems running Quad code (or maybe very very recent DSP code) in our Cisco 7206VXR. Mmmmm. :) I've not heard much good about Cisco's v.90 code. I've got some Rockwell SoftK56 modems at home (for testing) that won't even connect *at all* to some local Cisco numbers. They'll talk to 3Com and Ascend most of the time. Ascend's probably a very close second to 3Com in v.90 reliability, or maybe slightly ahead now (they work better with Motorola SM56 modems relative to TCS 3.6, that's about all I know)... but managing an Ascend is an absolute nightmare... not just those awful menus, but they have some, uh, "unique" ideas about how SNMP and Radius should work that just blew my mind last time I had the misfortune of working with one... I personally don't really need tech support from the vendor... I've got this mailing list, and I've got the knowhow to tear into it and figure it out (or reverse engineer it) myself. I'm not afraid to read a few RFC's here and there. As long as I can get hardware fixed, and get updated software easily I'm good to go. (Something 3Com is a bit lacking on -- like Jeff, I can't download TCS 4.0 even though I was in the beta! Fortunately the released code seems to be the same as the last release candidate... but it's not like Cisco where I can just jump on CCO and get the latest bugfix when I run into a problem.) Mike Andrews (MA12) * mandrews@dcr.net * http://www.bit0.com/ VP, sysadmin, & network guy, Digital Crescent Inc, Frankfort KY Internet services for Frankfort, Lawrenceburg, Owenton, Shelbyville www.fark.com: If it's not news, it's Fark. (Or something like that.) - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
check out the Nortel CVX 1800! ... We are getting rid of our TC Gear (7 Racks - about 40 DSP's) and going to the Nortel CVX 1800 ... http://www.nortelnetworks.com/promotions/cvxsolutions/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scot Desort" <scot@njaccess.net> To: <usr-tc@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 11:41 AM Subject: (usr-tc) And you thought you were frustrated with 3COM
Is anyone else here on the Ascend users list?
Whew - there are some VERY angry people on that list. While I have never had to go to Lucent for support, what these people are describing makes things at 3COM look bright and sunny. Top-tier engineering support calls being ignored. Technicians who don't know the products. RMA and warranty claims not being addressed. It's worse than any complaints I've seen on the 3COM list.
I *was* considering picking up some Ascend gear to compliment my 3COM stuff, but I am seriously reconsidering that. So, what's left - Ci$co? Are they the only company that provides the kind of support ISP's need? They usually seem to do most everything right. I don't know -- think I'll stick it out with 3COM and see if all of the newly found resources available from the drop of their switches actually *does* go into the ISP/Carrier division.
-- Scot
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On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Jamie Orzechowski wrote:
check out the Nortel CVX 1800! ... We are getting rid of our TC Gear (7 Racks - about 40 DSP's) and going to the Nortel CVX 1800 ...
http://www.nortelnetworks.com/promotions/cvxsolutions/index.html
Nortel is too "Jabba the Hutt" like to deal with, you are going to be too small to even be a blip on their radar. 3com at least has _distributors_ you can get pricing and information from. Does Nortel have a "totalservice" web site where you can find documentation and software, release notes, all that stuff? Nope. When you start having problems with the CVX1800, is there a newsgroups a mailing list you can turn to? Try calling Nortel's main number and try to talk to someone _right now_. You'll only be able to get someone to call you back. And when you ask the operator when that will be (hmm, sometime later today?), "oh, we try to respond to all inquiries WITHIN 7 DAYS". Here's an illustration of what you will be up against at Nortel. A few months ago, we got a "cold email" from one of their sales staff about their DSL gear. Since we were in the process of evaluating DSL solutions for a coming multi-million dollar investment in provisioning gear and DSLAMs, here is the reply I sent him... From nabil@SpiritOne.com Thu Feb 10 15:55:07 2000 -0800 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:55:02 -0800 (PST) From: Aaron Nabil <nabil@SpiritOne.com> To: Daniel Foreman <foremand@nortelnetworks.com> Subject: Re: Nortel Solutions In-Reply-To: <1142CC7C1392D111A64E0000F8C991800467B150@zrtpd001.us.nortel.com> We are in the process of evaluating a DSL provisioning solution. If you'd like Nortel to be considered along with Redback, Cisco and Lucent, send us every piece of printed information you have about the Shasta line. Manuals, provisioning information, NTP's, everything. And _pricing_, of course. Not just pricing on a particular configuartion, pricing on all the configurations, support and maintainainance, and training. Here's our address.... You know what I got back? Exactly the same glossies you might find in a Nortel booth at a trade show, all packaged in a nice Nortel folder. I'm expecting 80lbs, I get 8oz! Unless you are GST or Earthlink or US WEST, you are nothing to them. A million dollar sale is NOTHING to them. NOTHING. I noticed the above URL you gave at the Nortel web site, it suggest that there is some kind of "promotion". I challange you to find that information on their web site. In fact, try and find any information (beyond a picture of the outside of the box) on the CVX on their web site. I'm sure Nortel is great if you are worth $500 million. If you are worth $5 million, forget it. Keep us posted tho, eh? -- Aaron Nabil - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
We just bought our 6th CVX, and I have to say I like them better than Total Control. We started complementing our USR stuff about a year ago, and we're pleased with the results (more pleased they we would have been with the PM4 we were comparing with). The configuration is confusing at times, but once you get them going, you don't need to touch them for months at a time. Also, you don't need no damn Windows client to manage it remotely... everything can be done through telnet. Another thing to consider is that the CVX is more than a RAS. There is also code for VOIP (which will be unified with the RAS code this year), as well as other telco-specific applications (eg. T3 > T1 demux). Carl Litt Network Administrator Execulink Internet Services Other comments: On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Aaron Nabil wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jun 2000, Jamie Orzechowski wrote:
check out the Nortel CVX 1800! ... We are getting rid of our TC Gear (7 Racks - about 40 DSP's) and going to the Nortel CVX 1800 ...
http://www.nortelnetworks.com/promotions/cvxsolutions/index.html
Nortel is too "Jabba the Hutt" like to deal with, you are going to be too small to even be a blip on their radar. 3com at least has _distributors_ you can get pricing and information from. Does Nortel have a "totalservice" web site where you can find documentation and software, release notes, all that stuff? Nope. When you start having problems with
Yup. Performance Online. They have software, documentation, bulletins, etc. (We have a support contract, so I can't speak for those who don't) I do have one thing to say about software... there is so much development that it's sometimes hard to find a sitting target to upgrade to. But their patch levels are more stable than USR's general releases. Don't get me wrong... they have their problems, but nothing you can't work around.
the CVX1800, is there a newsgroups a mailing list you can turn to? Try calling Nortel's main number and try to talk to someone _right now_. You'll only be able to get someone to call you back. And when you
Non-emergency tech support is always available during normal business hours (9-5). After-hours emergency support is on call, and will call you back usually within 30 minutes. However, often when I call in with questions about configuration, etc., they have to research it and call back. At least when they call you back, they have answers better than "Umm, reseat the card and try again". And I've never had to teach a technician things about the box they should already know.
ask the operator when that will be (hmm, sometime later today?), "oh, we try to respond to all inquiries WITHIN 7 DAYS".
Here's an illustration of what you will be up against at Nortel. A few months ago, we got a "cold email" from one of their sales staff about their DSL gear. Since we were in the process of evaluating DSL solutions for a coming multi-million dollar investment in provisioning gear and DSLAMs, here is the reply I sent him...
From nabil@SpiritOne.com Thu Feb 10 15:55:07 2000 -0800 Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2000 15:55:02 -0800 (PST) From: Aaron Nabil <nabil@SpiritOne.com> To: Daniel Foreman <foremand@nortelnetworks.com> Subject: Re: Nortel Solutions In-Reply-To: <1142CC7C1392D111A64E0000F8C991800467B150@zrtpd001.us.nortel.com>
We are in the process of evaluating a DSL provisioning solution. If you'd like Nortel to be considered along with Redback, Cisco and Lucent, send us every piece of printed information you have about the Shasta line. Manuals, provisioning information, NTP's, everything. And _pricing_, of course. Not just pricing on a particular configuartion, pricing on all the configurations, support and maintainainance, and training.
Here's our address....
You know what I got back? Exactly the same glossies you might find in a Nortel booth at a trade show, all packaged in a nice Nortel folder. I'm expecting 80lbs, I get 8oz! Unless you are GST or Earthlink or US WEST, you are nothing to them. A million dollar sale is NOTHING to them. NOTHING.
Wrong. We are a small telco/ISP, and we get great support from them. We were interested in the Shasta, and they sent sales people down to meet with us. When we the CVX's were delivered, they sent 2 engineers for a couple days to help us set them up. You don't have to be a large service provider to get their attention. Maybe for a large sale, you need to get a human contact, to show you're serious. Call them up and see what happens. It would probably also help to be specific.
I noticed the above URL you gave at the Nortel web site, it suggest that there is some kind of "promotion". I challange you to find that information on their web site. In fact, try and find any information (beyond a picture of the outside of the box) on the CVX on their web site.
I'm sure Nortel is great if you are worth $500 million. If you are worth $5 million, forget it.
Keep us posted tho, eh?
-- Aaron Nabil
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Try calling Terry at Multitech Systems 888-288-5470 x5532 - they are very responsive and have real people to talk to. Scot Desort wrote:
Is anyone else here on the Ascend users list?
Whew - there are some VERY angry people on that list. While I have never had to go to Lucent for support, what these people are describing makes things at 3COM look bright and sunny. Top-tier engineering support calls being ignored. Technicians who don't know the products. RMA and warranty claims not being addressed. It's worse than any complaints I've seen on the 3COM list.
I *was* considering picking up some Ascend gear to compliment my 3COM stuff, but I am seriously reconsidering that. So, what's left - Ci$co? Are they the only company that provides the kind of support ISP's need? They usually seem to do most everything right. I don't know -- think I'll stick it out with 3COM and see if all of the newly found resources available from the drop of their switches actually *does* go into the ISP/Carrier division.
-- Scot
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
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participants (11)
-
Aaron Nabil -
Carl Litt -
Dave Meister -
David DenHollander -
Jamie Orzechowski -
Jeff Mcadams -
K Mitchell -
Mike Andrews -
Paul Farber -
Richard Lorbieski -
Scot Desort