OK, ouch! You made good points off a reaction note, not a well thought out explanation of procedural decision making. Let me clarify: Often a customer response is reactionary and not factual. EX: you get a call from a customer telling you that your upgrade has screwed up their connection. Now, you suck! It turns out that they couldn't get their modem to say 56K, and they think that makes the difference. So, without doing in depth research as to the real data speed they connect at (looking at the data transfer rate or connection rate by polling the modems), you assume this one comment means you have a bad deal. Or, perhaps it is several calls. We got a rash of K-Flex callers right after setting up the 3COM. So, we assumed there was a 3COM issue. In a way there was. We had a truckload of people that old techs had helped get K-Flex working. Guess what!? It did not work all that hot with the 3COM. Upgrades to v.90 - no more trouble. Now, if I see a chunk leaving me (more than before) with 3COM - screw 3COM. I am loyal to whomever get's me paid. I totally agree that 2% loss of customers is unacceptable. They know that when they can't download ICQ in under 30 minutes, you have a speed issue. And, of course I listen to my customers. It is not my sole and only mode of information gathering. The fact is: most of my customers own 3COM or USR modems. They connect Much Better to 3COM than LT (Livingston). As a matter of fact, I can't get certain modems to connect to Livingston at all (without an overhall of the factory drivers). So, good point! I was being general and assuming. I really do listen to my customers (why I have v.90 - good point). I also know that 2% loss is way to much. And, I also understand that most customers recognize a serious drop in quality connections. However, I really meant to comment more on the knee-jerk reactions to a hand full of customer complaints and the idea that they understand a few data bit per second change in speed. They just want to connect every time without a connection issue. I am seeing a bunch of drops. Now, that is what concerns me! When I see 5% drops, I get to wondering if I am about to lose 5% of my customer base due to 3COM. You don't see this stuff on Livingston's groups. There is not a constant impaling of the programmers and support crew. Why?! Because they do a great job - that's why. I am seriously thinking about dumping 3COM. So, make a public or private suggestion based on numbers. Who should I trade in for? I do not want to ride a sinking ship to loser-ville. BTW, once I get my DNA results to get technical support from 3COM, I rather like their tech support. I just prefer the response LT support gives you. They don't have to complete a ID Proofing contest before sharing important information or software. Jason -----Original Message----- From: owner-usr-tc@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-usr-tc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Allen Marsalis Sent: Sunday, October 17, 1999 3:59 PM To: usr-tc@lists.xmission.com Subject: RE: (usr-tc) 3com V90 Problems At 05:02 PM 10/17/99 -0700, Jason A. Nunnelley wrote:
Less than 1 in 50 customers know the difference between a connection that says 56K and only downloads 2-3K, and a good strong 34K connection delivering a 5-6K download speed.
I disagree. first, I've never seen a v.34 connection sustain 5-6K on a binary transfer. ascii maybe.. but even if it did, that's totally dependant on compression algorithms and the character of the data. It has nothing to do with the actual number of bits xfered.. Next, a v.90 connection by definition has to yield better than 2-3kps (actual bits) downstream.. Last, even lusers can read dialog boxes when they download a windows upgrade, ftp a file, or read binary newsgroups.. You underestimate your customers ability to make an observation or judgement.. Furthermore, I'm not willing to lose 1 in 50 customers.. that's 2% of our customer base..
As for relying on customers' comments to make Network Decisions... does anyone really do that?
absolutely.. otherwise I might chose 1200 baud modems to save money.. ;)
I know my customers don't know the difference.
<sigh>
I rely on data that makes sense.
and what *data* is that?
I know I told no one when I first switched to 3COM and yet, I did get positive feedback immediately.
But I thought that customers don't know the difference? And that it doesn't matter what customers feedback is because the comments don't impact network decision making.. Allen
Jason
-----Original Message----- From: owner-usr-tc@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-usr-tc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Brian Sent: Sunday, October 17, 1999 2:19 PM To: usr-tc@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: (usr-tc) 3com V90 Problems
I wonder how much of it is pschological vs. real. For example, ever post to your customers about how you made an upgrade to something like your mail server, and then they start calling tech support and say things like "ever since you all upgraded the server, I can't connect fast". I often thought, if you told the customers all of them, that you were upgrading your modem code tonight, and wanted their feedback the following day,and you really didn't touch anything, I am betting 25% would say they connect faster, 25% would say they connect slower, and 50% would notice no change.........i'm telling you I believe in this :)
Its like those customers who's modems report the DTE speed of 115,200, and when you fix them up, it only reports say 28800, yet they swear the connection is not as fast anymore.
Well if a customer visually sees a v90 connect, and its a terrible connection, would they claim that connection was faster than a really solid v.34 connect?
What I am getting at, is raw data and numbers are the best, rather than the more subjective data of customers opinions about their connections.
On Sun, 17 Oct 1999, Greg Coffey wrote:
I've never had a customer call the v90 connection "unreliable" to the competition's Ascends. The feedback that I've got from customers is that they get better throughput and are not dissatified with the connects to the Ascends. They are using USR modems to dial and they connect consistently with Ascends at v90 rates, usually 40something. They never connect at
v90
to our TC racks from the same location, using the same PC, software, phone lines, config, etc. I don't know the exact cause, they seem to be on the fringe of the v90 availability area. 3Com described it to me as a "bug" in the Ascend server firmware. All I know is that it has cost me customers in the past and continues to be an issue that I have no answer for when it comes up. I have gone to great lengths to explain to them what I have learned many months ago from 3Com but I don't think they believe me. Would you believe that 3Com/USR modems connect better to the competition than their own racks? Thankfully, it is a somewhat rare occurance and I only have to explain once or twice a month. I really don't know for sure to what extent it really occurs. I do know that I have lost customers over this and it continues to be an issue. I am getting tired of no news to update the situation though. I'm also afraid that it will harm our reputation if this continues as is. Word of mouth is still our best marketing and this will grow in significance with time.
At 11:15 AM 10/17/99 -0700, you wrote:
Ed writes...
. . . Let him know you are having the 3com V90 problems and you want it resolved. I think they believe it is a rare scenerio not effecting very many people. We told them it was more widespread than they knew... and that if 3com client modems connect to Ascends they should darn well connect to a 3com TC. No ifs ands or buts.
If modem X connects at an unreliable V.90 speed to an Ascend, and connects at a reliable v.34 rate to a 3com, that's a problem?
-- Aaron Nabil
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Thanks,
Greg Coffey, Visionary Communications V 307-234-5443 F 307-234-5446 ===================================================================== 100 N. Center St., Casper, WY 82601 WWW.VCN.COM
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----------------------------------------------------- Brian Feeny (BF304) signal@shreve.net 318-222-2638 x 109 http://www.shreve.net/~signal Network Administrator ShreveNet Inc. (ASN 11881)
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