I too keep my M17 at a mooring for the summer months. My mooring ball is 2' in diameter so the pendant is pretty high off the water to begin with. I don't spend much time worrying about the attachment at the bow. I will have a look next time im out to see if it is tight and secure. I have experimented with centerboard and rudder up or down to see how she lies at the mooring. With rudder fixed amidship and centerboard1/2 way down she seems most content. My routine is to use swimfins and swim to the boat. I pull the boarding ladder over the side and climb aboard. Good practice for reboarding on a daily basis, and the swim does me good. To me theres nothing like a good approach to the ball, cutting sheets at the right time and going forward to retrieve the pendant. The swim back revives me for my drive home. On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 11:01 AM <montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Lawrence Winiarski) 2. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Conbert Benneck) 3. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Conbert Benneck) 4. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Dave Scobie) 5. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Dave Scobie) 6. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (John Schinnerer) 7. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (John Schinnerer) 8. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Dave Scobie) 9. For Sale: 1976 M17 (bownez@juno.com) 10. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Lawrence Winiarski) 11. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Lawrence Winiarski) 12. Re: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye (Henry Rodriguez)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 18:11:13 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye Message-ID: <193961591.747345.1527790273142@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
?Good idea.?? Seems you could just keep the rig up front on the pulpit out of the way until you wanted to use it.
Here's a nice fitting I just found a picture of.
http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/29352-Tug-Eyes-Towing-...
From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 10:34 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye
A bit of a side comment on this part:
On 05/31/2018 10:16 AM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote: ...
1.??? ... I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put aroundthe line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from my nice boat and have the whole thing near water level. ?? I learned the hard way the last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the ball, eventually wound up stuck to it.??? Seems therehas to be a better way.
For holding off a mooring, if you set up a triangle rig, using lines through stiff HDPE pipe ("poly pipe") or PVC pipe, with one point on the mooring ball and two points on your boat - such as at the bow or close to it, and then at least several aft on one side - your boat will be held off the ball or tire or whatever it is. It can go 'round and 'round with wind/current, but the lines won't wrap and you won't bump the mooring.
Wish I had a picture...saw this a couple years ago when I was on a friend's Ranger 20 in the San Juans. Some guy next mooring over in a Great Pelican had this setup. It was so obvious when we saw it.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 13:39:31 -0500 From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> To: Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye Message-ID: <76042a0e-142c-a8ae-7880-768beba841f6@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Lawrence,
My choice would be a S/S U-bolt (two legs share the load 50/50 rather than? a bow eye that has just one stem and a nut and it carries 100% of the load). ? Use very good S/S backing? plates. over a large area of plywood and epoxy? in the bow to spread the load.
If you could hang the M15 from this U-bolt it will be strong enough to take care of all your potential anchor rode loads / and mooring loads.
Connie
ex M15 #400? LEPPO
On 5/31/2018 12:16 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote:
I'm thinking about putting a bow eye, or? u-bolt in the bow stem closer to the waterline (My m-15 doesn't have one) .???? I've got a few reasons for wanting this.
1.??? I'd like a mooring attachment down low, so the line/pendant can't catch or chaffe.??? I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put aroundthe line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from my nice boat and have the whole thing near water level. ?? I learned the hard way the last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the ball, eventually wound up stuck to it.??? Seems therehas to be a better way.
2.? Another attachment point for a mooring ball so there are 2 points if one fails.
3.?? I'd like to have a low attachment point for a snubber for the anchor in rougher waves.??? It just seems better to be pulling fromdown low, especially if the waves are coming sideways.
?I read through the archives and found thishttps:// www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1882/bow-eye-rebuild-kit-c-22.cfm but they say explicitly in the description
"Never moor your boat from the trailer bow eye.?? It is intended to take the load from the trailer winch directly forward of the boat....." I see the point.??? Bolt's aren't meant for side loads, but but reading lots of stuff on the net, it seems LOTS of people moor from the bow eye, andit seems that while side loads are bad for the bolt, side loads are also a reason to attach closer to the waterline to make the boat less tippy.
So what is the solution?
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 14:09:42 -0500 From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> To: Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye Message-ID: <d19f3aef-d922-9698-54eb-421b23cf48ec@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Lawrence,
More thoughts:
I had a 9' dinghy with a bow eye used for towing.
During a three day Nor'easter, while we were on a mooring in Oak Bluffs harbor on Martha's Vineyard, where we took green water over the bow of our 29' foot sailboat, the dinghy filed with rain and wave water, and filled with water, acted as a big sea anchor.? That stopped the 29-footer from sheering from side to side, but .... eventually the load on the bow eye was too much; it broke; and the dinghy wound up in the far corner of the harbor along with the all the debris of? landing stages that Oak Bluffs had just installed for power boaters.
When the storm finally ended, and we retrieved our dinghy, I found that the bow eye had been made of brass, chrome plated, and it had just fractured.?? The eye was still on the dinghy rode, and the shank and bolt were in the bottom of the dinghy.
-----------------------
You have the right idea to have the anchor attachment as low on the bow as possible.
Remember a recommended length for an anchor rode is 10 X the water depth; but if you attach your anchor line to a bow cleat, you have to add the height from the water to the bow cleat to your 10 X calculation.? So, low is the best way to fasten the anchor rode at the bow.
Your ultimate aim is to keep the pull on your anchor stock from the anchor rode as close to horizontal as possible.? Bigger boats use a special anchor rode weight that fits over the anchor rode and is slide down the anchor rode.
The weight does two things for you:? A) It keeps the pull on the anchor as close to horizontal as you can get, and B) the wave action lifting the weight on the anchor rode adds some damping to wave surge loads to keep the anchor from being pulled out of the bottom.
Connie
On 5/31/2018 12:16 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote:
I'm thinking about putting a bow eye, or? u-bolt in the bow stem closer to the waterline (My m-15 doesn't have one) .???? I've got a few reasons for wanting this.
1.??? I'd like a mooring attachment down low, so the line/pendant can't catch or chaffe.??? I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put aroundthe line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from my nice boat and have the whole thing near water level. ?? I learned the hard way the last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the ball, eventually wound up stuck to it.??? Seems therehas to be a better way.
2.? Another attachment point for a mooring ball so there are 2 points if one fails.
3.?? I'd like to have a low attachment point for a snubber for the anchor in rougher waves.??? It just seems better to be pulling fromdown low, especially if the waves are coming sideways.
?I read through the archives and found thishttps:// www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1882/bow-eye-rebuild-kit-c-22.cfm but they say explicitly in the description
"Never moor your boat from the trailer bow eye.?? It is intended to take the load from the trailer winch directly forward of the boat....." I see the point.??? Bolt's aren't meant for side loads, but but reading lots of stuff on the net, it seems LOTS of people moor from the bow eye, andit seems that while side loads are bad for the bolt, side loads are also a reason to attach closer to the waterline to make the boat less tippy.
So what is the solution?
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 12:29:26 -0700 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye Message-ID: <CAGjBOA5rv9FZUauz8ySSAB3AWtZQJ79DwbtMs3QPVQaV3= eVgg@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lawerance:
Your boat didnt come with a bow eye as the bow plate has a big eye for attaching the trailer winch line/strap.
You want a ubolt boweye such as -
http://www.sea-dog.com/groups/180-u-bolt
You cut an access port at the forward end of the vberth through the hull liner. Use a hole saw to match the plate you choose -
https://www.westmarine.com/search?Ntt=Screw+in+deck+plate
Back the ubolt with good marine OK hardwood shaped to confirm with the bow that you coat with resin and then fiberglass into place.
Install the bow eye and bed with 3M4000 or 4200 or Sikaflex 291.
The bow eye will be strong enough to lift the boat like a giant fish.
A snubber should run off the bow cleat and have chafe protection (chocks help). I disagree with your idea of the attachment being low ... search net for photos of how people use a shock line for an anchor chain. Make sure where you install the bow eye it doesn't interfer with the trailer's bow stop.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Thu, May 31, 2018, 10:17 AM Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'm thinking about putting a bow eye, or u-bolt in the bow stem closer
to
the waterline (My m-15 doesn't have one) . I've got a few reasons for wanting this.
1. I'd like a mooring attachment down low, so the line/pendant can't catch or chaffe. I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put aroundthe line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from my nice boat and have the whole thing near water level. I learned the hard way the last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the ball, eventually wound up stuck to it. Seems therehas to be a better way.
2. Another attachment point for a mooring ball so there are 2 points if one fails.
3. I'd like to have a low attachment point for a snubber for the anchor in rougher waves. It just seems better to be pulling fromdown low, especially if the waves are coming sideways.
I read through the archives and found thishttps://
www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1882/bow-eye-rebuild-kit-c-22.cfm
but they say explicitly in the description
"Never moor your boat from the trailer bow eye. It is intended to take the load from the trailer winch directly forward of the boat....." I see the point. Bolt's aren't meant for side loads, but but reading lots of stuff on the net, it seems LOTS of people moor from the bow eye, andit seems that while side loads are bad for the bolt, side loads are also a reason to attach closer to the waterline to make the boat less tippy.
So what is the solution?
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 12:42:52 -0700 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye Message-ID: <CAGjBOA5eJocbBfHupTPN9sEP_HwszKBYZ8tckbbYE= Sqgmwo9w@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Lawerance:
I also add a little fact about the M15 -
An adult at the bell reaching over the side will cause the boat to roll really easily. This relates to a David Letterman-like 'stupid Montgomery trick' Jerry told me about -
you can be in the water and reach up to the bow pulpit, and with a good tug with body weight you can put the boat on her beam ends.
Just a little thing to think about going way forward on a little boat and reaching low over the bow. For this reason I don't recommend having your bow low for attaching anything to the bow eye.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Thu, May 31, 2018, 12:29 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Lawerance:
Your boat didnt come with a bow eye as the bow plate has a big eye for attaching the trailer winch line/strap.
You want a ubolt boweye such as -
http://www.sea-dog.com/groups/180-u-bolt
You cut an access port at the forward end of the vberth through the hull liner. Use a hole saw to match the plate you choose -
https://www.westmarine.com/search?Ntt=Screw+in+deck+plate
Back the ubolt with good marine OK hardwood shaped to confirm with the bow that you coat with resin and then fiberglass into place.
Install the bow eye and bed with 3M4000 or 4200 or Sikaflex 291.
The bow eye will be strong enough to lift the boat like a giant fish.
A snubber should run off the bow cleat and have chafe protection (chocks help). I disagree with your idea of the attachment being low ... search net for photos of how people use a shock line for an anchor chain. Make sure where you install the bow eye it doesn't interfer with the trailer's bow stop.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Thu, May 31, 2018, 10:17 AM Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'm thinking about putting a bow eye, or u-bolt in the bow stem closer to the waterline (My m-15 doesn't have one) . I've got a few reasons for wanting this.
1. I'd like a mooring attachment down low, so the line/pendant can't catch or chaffe. I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put aroundthe line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from
my
nice boat and have the whole thing near water level. I learned the hard way the last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the ball, eventually wound up stuck to it. Seems therehas to be a better way.
2. Another attachment point for a mooring ball so there are 2 points if one fails.
3. I'd like to have a low attachment point for a snubber for the anchor in rougher waves. It just seems better to be pulling fromdown low, especially if the waves are coming sideways.
I read through the archives and found thishttps://
www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1882/bow-eye-rebuild-kit-c-22.cfm
but they say explicitly in the description
"Never moor your boat from the trailer bow eye. It is intended to take the load from the trailer winch directly forward of the boat....." I see the point. Bolt's aren't meant for side loads, but but reading lots of stuff on the net, it seems LOTS of people moor from the bow eye, andit seems that while side loads are bad for the bolt, side loads are also a reason to attach closer to the waterline to make the boat less tippy.
So what is the solution?
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 12:48:54 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye Message-ID: <34df9f68-ad13-d103-c2f8-b8a396738bfa@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
On 05/31/2018 12:29 PM, Dave Scobie wrote: ...
You cut an access port at the forward end of the vberth through the hull liner. Use a hole saw to match the plate you choose -
Re boat parts, a plug for Duckworks Boat Builder Supply - in particular, better prices for this kind of stuff (and a lot of other Monty-useful stuff as well) and many options/sizes types: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/category-s/181.htm
Full disclosure - I have no investment in Duckworks, just find it refreshing to be able to support a genuine small business with great service, great prices, great products & variety, quick order processing, a real live knowledgeable human on phone or e-mail support.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 7 Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 12:56:38 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye Message-ID: <1a7612cd-1767-a3df-e11f-f0d2081e33d9@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
PS - they have the bow eye/u-bolts also for less than WM. http://www.duckworksbbs.com/category-s/179.htm
cheers, John S.
On 05/31/2018 12:48 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:
On 05/31/2018 12:29 PM, Dave Scobie wrote: ...
You cut an access port at the forward end of the vberth through the hull liner.? Use a hole saw to match the plate you choose -
Re boat parts, a plug for Duckworks Boat Builder Supply - in particular, better prices for this kind of stuff (and a lot of other Monty-useful stuff as well) and many options/sizes types: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/category-s/181.htm
Full disclosure - I have no investment in Duckworks, just find it refreshing to be able to support a genuine small business with great service, great prices, great products & variety, quick order processing, a real live knowledgeable human on phone or e-mail support.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 8 Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 13:19:41 -0700 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye Message-ID: <CAGjBOA4imoAjPeiyRB7HoUp46s-emeSBVCGkTw=- pd3d_1Erow@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
plug for Duckworks Boat Builder Supply
Good call John ... I just did a Google search with my phone as I don't have a desktop computer on Sweet Pea ;-).
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com
On Thu, May 31, 2018, 1:10 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 05/31/2018 12:29 PM, Dave Scobie wrote: ...
You cut an access port at the forward end of the vberth through the hull liner. Use a hole saw to match the plate you choose -
Re boat parts, a plug for Duckworks Boat Builder Supply - in particular, better prices for this kind of stuff (and a lot of other Monty-useful stuff as well) and many options/sizes types: http://www.duckworksbbs.com/category-s/181.htm
Full disclosure - I have no investment in Duckworks, just find it refreshing to be able to support a genuine small business with great service, great prices, great products & variety, quick order processing, a real live knowledgeable human on phone or e-mail support.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Message: 9 Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 20:19:05 GMT From: "bownez@juno.com" <bownez@juno.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: For Sale: 1976 M17 Message-ID: <20180531.151905.10511.0@webmail12.vgs.untd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
My M17 of 20 years and fabulous fine times.....
https://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/boa/d/1976-montgomery-17-sailboat/660...
Continue to downsize.
Pass the word.
Michael "Bones" Bowden Mpls ____________________________________________________________ Do This Before Bed Tonight To Burn Belly Flab All Night Long Wise Med http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5b1058fa49bb58f97208st02vuc
------------------------------
Message: 10 Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 04:34:05 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye Message-ID: <474049846.963353.1527827645046@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Thanks for all the good ideas and experience.
From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> To: Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 12:10 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye
Lawrence,
More thoughts:
I had a 9' dinghy with a bow eye used for towing.
During a three day Nor'easter, while we were on a mooring in Oak Bluffs harbor on Martha's Vineyard, where we took green water over the bow of our 29' foot sailboat, the dinghy filed with rain and wave water, and filled with water, acted as a big sea anchor.? That stopped the 29-footer from sheering from side to side, but .... eventually the load on the bow eye was too much; it broke; and the dinghy wound up in the far corner of the harbor along with the all the debris of? landing stages that Oak Bluffs had just installed for power boaters.
When the storm finally ended, and we retrieved our dinghy, I found that the bow eye had been made of brass, chrome plated, and it had just fractured.?? The eye was still on the dinghy rode, and the shank and bolt were in the bottom of the dinghy.
-----------------------
You have the right idea to have the anchor attachment as low on the bow as possible.
Remember a recommended length for an anchor rode is 10 X the water depth; but if you attach your anchor line to a bow cleat, you have to add the height from the water to the bow cleat to your 10 X calculation.? So, low is the best way to fasten the anchor rode at the bow.
Your ultimate aim is to keep the pull on your anchor stock from the anchor rode as close to horizontal as possible.? Bigger boats use a special anchor rode weight that fits over the anchor rode and is slide down the anchor rode.
The weight does two things for you:? A) It keeps the pull on the anchor as close to horizontal as you can get, and B) the wave action lifting the weight on the anchor rode adds some damping to wave surge loads to keep the anchor from being pulled out of the bottom.
Connie
On 5/31/2018 12:16 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote:
I'm thinking about putting a bow eye, or? u-bolt in the bow stem closer to the waterline (My m-15 doesn't have one) .???? I've got a few reasons for wanting this.
1.??? I'd like a mooring attachment down low, so the line/pendant can't catch or chaffe.??? I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put aroundthe line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from my nice boat and have the whole thing near water level. ?? I learned the hard way the last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the ball, eventually wound up stuck to it.??? Seems therehas to be a better way.
2.? Another attachment point for a mooring ball so there are 2 points if one fails.
3.?? I'd like to have a low attachment point for a snubber for the anchor in rougher waves.??? It just seems better to be pulling fromdown low, especially if the waves are coming sideways.
? ?I read through the archives and found thishttps:// www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1882/bow-eye-rebuild-kit-c-22.cfm but they say explicitly in the description
"Never moor your boat from the trailer bow eye.?? It is intended to take the load from the trailer winch directly forward of the boat....." I see the point.??? Bolt's aren't meant for side loads, but but reading lots of stuff on the net, it seems LOTS of people moor from the bow eye, andit seems that while side loads are bad for the bolt, side loads are also a reason to attach closer to the waterline to make the boat less tippy.
So what is the solution?
------------------------------
Message: 11 Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 05:39:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com> To: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye Message-ID: <698860694.964251.1527831559182@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
?It is really tippy in the bow for sure.??? In fact, that is part of my reason for wanting to pull from down low, rather than up high on the deck cleat.?? But you are right, that I wouldn't want to be reaching down either to attach anything either, so anything that you fiddle with hasto be accessible.?? Seems like there has to be a way to have your cake and eat it too...........
From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com>; For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 12:43 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye
Lawerance: I also add a little fact about the M15 - An adult at the bell reaching over the side will cause the boat to roll really easily. This relates to a David Letterman-like 'stupid Montgomery trick' Jerry told me about - you can be in the water and reach up to the bow pulpit, and with a good tug with body weight you can put the boat on her beam ends.
Just a little thing to think about going way forward on a little boat and reaching low over the bow. For this reason I don't recommend having your bow low for attaching anything to the bow eye.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Thu, May 31, 2018, 12:29 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Lawerance: Your boat didnt come with a bow eye as the bow plate has a big eye for attaching the trailer winch line/strap. You want a ubolt boweye such as - http://www.sea-dog.com/groups/180-u-bolt You cut an access port at the forward end of the vberth through the hull liner.? Use a hole saw to match the plate you choose - https://www.westmarine.com/search?Ntt=Screw+in+deck+plate
Back the ubolt with good marine OK hardwood shaped to confirm with the bow that you coat with resin and then fiberglass into place. Install the bow eye and bed with 3M4000 or 4200 or Sikaflex 291. The bow eye will be strong enough to lift the boat like a giant fish. A snubber should run off the bow cleat and have chafe protection (chocks help).? I disagree with your idea of the attachment being low ... search net for photos of how people use a shock line for an anchor chain.? Make sure where you install the bow eye it doesn't interfer with the trailer's bow stop.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Thu, May 31, 2018, 10:17 AM Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'm thinking about putting a bow eye, or? u-bolt in the bow stem closer to the waterline (My m-15 doesn't have one) .???? I've got a few reasons for wanting this.??
1.??? I'd like a mooring attachment down low, so the line/pendant can't catch or chaffe.??? I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put aroundthe line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from my nice boat and have the whole thing near water level. ?? I learned the hard way the last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the ball, eventually wound up stuck to it.??? Seems therehas to be a better way.???
2.? Another attachment point for a mooring ball so there are 2 points if one fails.????
3.?? I'd like to have a low attachment point for a snubber for the anchor in rougher waves.??? It just seems better to be pulling fromdown low, especially if the waves are coming sideways.?
?I read through the archives and found thishttps:// www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1882/bow-eye-rebuild-kit-c-22.cfm but they say explicitly in the description
"Never moor your boat from the trailer bow eye.?? It is intended to take the load from the trailer winch directly forward of the boat....." I see the point.??? Bolt's aren't meant for side loads, but but reading lots of stuff on the net, it seems LOTS of people moor from the bow eye, andit seems that while side loads are bad for the bolt, side loads are also a reason to attach closer to the waterline to make the boat less tippy.
So what is the solution?
------------------------------
Message: 12 Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2018 07:54:11 -0500 From: Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> To: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye Message-ID: < CAMKG1h+Fa16U2pcZ61VXNen9WR3PA1rJOhYeur9MYCpz121YYA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I have been using the bow eye on my 23' VN as the primary attachment point for my mooring pendant for over 30 years and It has all of the benefits mentioned before, the best of which is NO CHAFE. I did beef up the U-bolt backing so that it is stronger than the deck cleats. I do have a backup line from the buoy to a deck cleat that also serves as a pick up line that I grab with a boat hook when approaching the mooring, but the primary attachment is to the bow eye. I use a large 1/2" dia ss locking carabiner that snaps right on.
I don't have to reach over the bow to connect it. I attach it from the dinghy I use to get to the mooring. The first thing I do when I get to the boat is release the line from the bow eye. The boat is still moored by the backup/pick up line on the deck cleat. The last thing I do after sailing is to hook the carabiner back on the bow eye (and lock it!)
I also use this method with my M17 Monita. She is alternating summers on the mooring with Chiquita (VN23.)
Henry Rodriguez
On Fri, Jun 1, 2018, 12:40 AM Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
It is really tippy in the bow for sure. In fact, that is part of my reason for wanting to pull from down low, rather than up high on the deck cleat. But you are right, that I wouldn't want to be reaching down either to attach anything either, so anything that you fiddle with hasto be accessible. Seems like there has to be a way to have your cake and eat it too...........
From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: Lawrence Winiarski <lawrence_winiarski@yahoo.com>; For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 12:43 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bow Eye or not to Bow Eye
Lawerance: I also add a little fact about the M15 - An adult at the bell reaching over the side will cause the boat to roll really easily. This relates to a David Letterman-like 'stupid Montgomery trick' Jerry told me about - you can be in the water and reach up to the bow pulpit, and with a good tug with body weight you can put the boat on her beam ends.
Just a little thing to think about going way forward on a little boat and reaching low over the bow. For this reason I don't recommend having your bow low for attaching anything to the bow eye.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Thu, May 31, 2018, 12:29 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Lawerance: Your boat didnt come with a bow eye as the bow plate has a big eye for attaching the trailer winch line/strap. You want a ubolt boweye such as - http://www.sea-dog.com/groups/180-u-bolt You cut an access port at the forward end of the vberth through the hull liner. Use a hole saw to match the plate you choose - https://www.westmarine.com/search?Ntt=Screw+in+deck+plate
Back the ubolt with good marine OK hardwood shaped to confirm with the bow that you coat with resin and then fiberglass into place. Install the bow eye and bed with 3M4000 or 4200 or Sikaflex 291. The bow eye will be strong enough to lift the boat like a giant fish. A snubber should run off the bow cleat and have chafe protection (chocks help). I disagree with your idea of the attachment being low ... search net for photos of how people use a shock line for an anchor chain. Make sure where you install the bow eye it doesn't interfer with the trailer's bow stop.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com On Thu, May 31, 2018, 10:17 AM Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'm thinking about putting a bow eye, or u-bolt in the bow stem closer to the waterline (My m-15 doesn't have one) . I've got a few reasons for wanting this.
1. I'd like a mooring attachment down low, so the line/pendant can't catch or chaffe. I want to have one of those big pool noodles to put aroundthe line as a float/stiffener to keep the mooring ball away from my nice boat and have the whole thing near water level. I learned the hard way the last time when my boat drifted around and around and around the ball, eventually wound up stuck to it. Seems therehas to be a better way.
2. Another attachment point for a mooring ball so there are 2 points if one fails.
3. I'd like to have a low attachment point for a snubber for the anchor in rougher waves. It just seems better to be pulling fromdown low, especially if the waves are coming sideways.
I read through the archives and found thishttps://
www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/1882/bow-eye-rebuild-kit-c-22.cfm
but they say explicitly in the description
"Never moor your boat from the trailer bow eye. It is intended to take the load from the trailer winch directly forward of the boat....." I see the point. Bolt's aren't meant for side loads, but but reading lots of stuff on the net, it seems LOTS of people moor from the bow eye, andit seems that while side loads are bad for the bolt, side loads are also a reason to attach closer to the waterline to make the boat less tippy.
So what is the solution?
------------------------------
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On 06/02/2018 08:21 AM, Jon Barber wrote: ...
To me theres nothing like a good approach to the ball, cutting sheets at the right time and going forward to retrieve the pendant.
That's the fun stuff! Sailing off and on the mooring was part of the skipper qualification checkout for Na Hoa Holomoku (Hilo sailing club) for our "big boats" on moorings in Reed's Bay (Hilo, HI). In my case it was an International Folkboat...a definite skill-builder sailing one of those onto a mooring in tight quarters and swirly flukey lee-of-tree-covered-shoreline wind. I love the challenge of sailing in and out of a slip, when my boat is in one and not completely stern to wind. cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Sailing off and on the mooring ball is one of the many practical applications taught at the WoodenBoat Sailing School at the WoodenBoat Center in Maine. We did the practical lessons in Hereshof 12 1/2. Steve M-15 # 335 -----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2018 3:25 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mooring On 06/02/2018 08:21 AM, Jon Barber wrote: ...
To me theres nothing like a good approach to the ball, cutting sheets at the right time and going forward to retrieve the pendant.
That's the fun stuff! Sailing off and on the mooring was part of the skipper qualification checkout for Na Hoa Holomoku (Hilo sailing club) for our "big boats" on moorings in Reed's Bay (Hilo, HI). In my case it was an International Folkboat...a definite skill-builder sailing one of those onto a mooring in tight quarters and swirly flukey lee-of-tree-covered-shoreline wind. I love the challenge of sailing in and out of a slip, when my boat is in one and not completely stern to wind. cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Sailing off and on the mooring ball is one of the many practical applications taught at the WoodenBoat Sailing School at the WoodenBoat Center in Maine. We did the practical lessons in Hereshof 12 1/2. Steve M-15 # 335 -----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2018 3:25 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mooring On 06/02/2018 08:21 AM, Jon Barber wrote: ...
To me theres nothing like a good approach to the ball, cutting sheets at the right time and going forward to retrieve the pendant.
That's the fun stuff! Sailing off and on the mooring was part of the skipper qualification checkout for Na Hoa Holomoku (Hilo sailing club) for our "big boats" on moorings in Reed's Bay (Hilo, HI). In my case it was an International Folkboat...a definite skill-builder sailing one of those onto a mooring in tight quarters and swirly flukey lee-of-tree-covered-shoreline wind. I love the challenge of sailing in and out of a slip, when my boat is in one and not completely stern to wind. cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Sailing into my slip is the goal of every trip. So far this season have made 2 of 3 dockings under sail. 1 miss was due to inadequate wind. Merry Helen II 96 M15 #602 George George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails" On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 6:18 PM, Steve Trapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Sailing off and on the mooring ball is one of the many practical applications taught at the WoodenBoat Sailing School at the WoodenBoat Center in Maine. We did the practical lessons in Hereshof 12 1/2. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer Sent: Saturday, June 2, 2018 3:25 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mooring
On 06/02/2018 08:21 AM, Jon Barber wrote: ...
To me theres nothing like a good approach to the ball, cutting sheets at the right time and going forward to retrieve the pendant.
That's the fun stuff! Sailing off and on the mooring was part of the skipper qualification checkout for Na Hoa Holomoku (Hilo sailing club) for our "big boats" on moorings in Reed's Bay (Hilo, HI). In my case it was an International Folkboat...a definite skill-builder sailing one of those onto a mooring in tight quarters and swirly flukey lee-of-tree-covered-shoreline wind. I love the challenge of sailing in and out of a slip, when my boat is in one and not completely stern to wind.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (4)
-
George Iemmolo -
John Schinnerer -
Jon Barber -
Steve Trapp