Tom, You mentioned the gas smell in the cabin in the discussion on electric motors. I sealed up the aft cockpit locker. I believe Dave Scobie did as well and maybe some others. It is open to the boat from under the transom coaming. Takes a bit of kneeling and bending. I used some 1/4" plywood ripped and then scribed to the slightly uneven opening width. Just so it wedged into place. Then set it in with some thickened epoxy and after that had set up, wetted out some glass fabric strips and laid them over the ply and thickened fillets. Not too smooth, but it is out of sight. Had to go back with a couple of dabs of thickened epoxy at the ends to get it all closed up. Sure eliminated the gas smell in the cabin. I found that the cushions even smelled of gas. Now all that is gone. I would question why the factory does not seal off that aft locker as it is most often used for gas storage. Bob? Jerry? Bill Wickett Makin' Time M17 #622 On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Randy, I too have been running a German-built electric outboard on lakes and bays in my 17, and it is quite nice with the remote control option that lets me control forward, reverse and speed with one lever while attending to other things. With the battery removed, I can easily carry the 17 pound motor despite some back issues. Mainly, i hated the gas smell that always lingered in the cabin, and now it is completely gone. Being green can be pleasant indeed, if you can afford the initial higher cost per horsepower, and don't need to travel 20 miles with zero wind. It is kind of like a sailboat without a motor, but the device is there if you are in desperate need of a kick. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
On Jun 27, 2012, at 1:38 PM, Randy wrote:
After some 11 years of following threads on engine ideas, I finally made a dead weight adjustment. After all, when you are sailing the engine, fuel tank fuel are all dead weight. I went from a 100lb. 9.9 Yamaha outboard to a 3.5hp 35lb electric....o.k. so I am an extremist! Still, it sails much better. I also got rid of one of my two deep cycle marine batteries. It also was strapped at the bottom aft corner of the boat. So far, it has worked out well in even some pretty testy mountain lake winds. And, as expected, in light winds we are moving along much better! Thanks to all who have finally gotten through this thick skull...now a thick "green" skull.
Randy M-17 "Fore Play"
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:53 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 112, Issue 9
Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com
You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: How much heel on M17 (Tom Jenkins) 2. Re: How much heel on M17 (W David Scobie) 3. Re: How much heel on M17 (John Schinnerer) 4. Re: How much heel on M17 (Tom Jenkins) 5. Re: How much heel on M17 (jerry montgomery) 6. Re: aspens are trembling outside my window (W David Scobie) 7. Re: How much wind (James Poulakis) 8. Re: How much wind (Jeffrey Johnston) 9. Re: How much wind (jerry montgomery) 10. Re: How much wind (James Poulakis) 11. M15 Tiller Extension (Don) 12. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Neil Dorf) 13. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Tod) 14. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Daniel Rich) 15. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Beowulf) 16. Main sail luff slides (Beowulf) 17. Re: Main sail luff slides (Stan Susman) 18. Re: How much wind (Stan Susman)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:42:36 -0700 From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 Message-ID: <58224808-8687-4D91-9CDE-A19D9A4AF46C@gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Dave, Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that word.
On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19.
the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side.
hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails best flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I never checked. What you think? Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:48:07 -0700 (PDT) From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 Message-ID: <1340736487.98898.YahooMailClassic@web162704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Tom:
more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her heeling.
M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks.? Been waiting years to use that word.?
On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15.? i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19.
the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel.? much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side.
hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails
best
flat.? I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I never checked.? What you think? Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:57:18 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 Message-ID: <4FEA060E.1030905@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
In the world of paddlecraft (canoe and kayak) we'd call that the difference between 'primary stability' and 'secondary stability' - sounds like the M15 has 'loose' primary stability (wobbles when flat) and distinct secondary stability (sits securely 'on edge' or with a bit of heel). The M17 sounds like it has slightly more primary stability.
Terminology...go figure!
cheers, John S.
On 06/26/2012 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
Tom:
more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her heeling.
M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that word.
On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19.
the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side.
hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails
best
flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I never checked. What you think? Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net http://eco-living.net
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:11:40 -0700 From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 Message-ID: <20506EB8-AE32-4B5E-846E-13F80DAD41AD@gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Dave, Got it; not 10 degrees veering of the bow from the average direction of travel. That would be poor tracking. I have not sailed an M15, but as John S. suggests, the M17 is not very "tippy" for its weight. Hey, the aspens are trembling outside my window; time to go sailing instead of sitting in front of the computer. Tom
On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
Tom:
more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her heeling.
M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that word.
On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19.
the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side.
hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails
best
flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I never checked. What you think? Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:35:36 -0700 From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: <john@eco-living.net>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 Message-ID: <CB1FB5223DC8446CBE791C095D8A19D1@jerryws10> Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type="response"
John- what do you paddle, out of curiousity?
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17
In the world of paddlecraft (canoe and kayak) we'd call that the difference between 'primary stability' and 'secondary stability' - sounds like the M15 has 'loose' primary stability (wobbles when flat) and distinct secondary stability (sits securely 'on edge' or with a bit of heel). The M17 sounds like it has slightly more primary stability.
Terminology...go figure!
cheers, John S.
On 06/26/2012 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
Tom:
more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her heeling.
M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that word.
On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19.
the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side.
hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote: > > Dave, > My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails best > flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I > never checked. What you think? > Tom Jenkins > M17 Scintilla > >
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net http://eco-living.net
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 6728 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:02:05 -0700 (PDT) From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: aspens are trembling outside my window Message-ID: <1340740925.96334.YahooMailClassic@web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
going sailing on your boat is best idea shared by any of us today!!! :-)
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, Got it; not 10 degrees veering of the bow from the average direction of travel.? That would be poor tracking.???I have not sailed an M15, but as John S. suggests, the M17 is not very "tippy" for its weight.? Hey, the aspens are trembling outside my window; time to go sailing instead of sitting in front of the computer. Tom
------------------------------
Message: 7 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:01:22 -0700 From: James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind Message-ID: <542BA21D-91FF-4789-B5A2-9B96E322BB51@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent hopes...
On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
------------------------------
Message: 8 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:15:07 -0500 From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind Message-ID: < CAFS5qAs+spg4m3czePcOjUthh_X77-+5aF9gBBDfdjpFX8rMKQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls.
Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow.
Jeff Johnston
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent hopes...
On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
-- *Jeff+* Mol?n labe!
------------------------------
Message: 9 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:52:26 -0700 From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind Message-ID: <0CD48FC8164349C2AC783D9694EDF838@jerryws10> Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="utf-8"; reply-type="original"
I've always used a P log!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind
I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls.
Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow.
Jeff Johnston
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent hopes...
On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
-- *Jeff+* Mol?n labe!
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
------------------------------
Message: 10 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:03:25 -0700 From: James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind Message-ID: <316ED3E4-DC68-475B-A458-3FDECB6C6139@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Doesn't that measure water temperature too?
On Jun 26, 2012, at 2:52 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:
I've always used a P log!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com
To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind
I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls.
Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow.
Jeff Johnston
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent hopes...
On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
-- *Jeff+* Mol?n labe!
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
------------------------------
Message: 11 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 18:59:15 -0700 From: Don <sailmonty15@gmail.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension Message-ID: <4FEA68F3.2080309@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward got me thing about tiller extensions again.
What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out.
Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone used that one?
Thanks Don M15-248
------------------------------
Message: 12 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:20:23 -0700 From: Neil Dorf <ndorf@surfbest.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension Message-ID: <B7ADE2EC-6CA6-4FE3-B8AF-C3C8754FC488@surfbest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" but not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable and easy to grip.
Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to have a loyal following.
Neil
On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15@gmail.com> wrote:
After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward got me thing about tiller extensions again.
What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out.
Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone used that one?
Thanks Don M15-248
------------------------------
Message: 13 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 22:24:51 -0400 From: "Tod" <htmills@zoominternet.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension Message-ID: <00d101cd540c$08177c30$18467490$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
BuscaBrisas came with a Davis Tiller Tamer, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Tod
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Neil Dorf Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:20 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension
I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" but not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable and easy to grip.
Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to have a loyal following.
Neil
On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15@gmail.com> wrote:
After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward got me thing about tiller extensions again.
What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out.
Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone used that one?
Thanks Don M15-248
------------------------------
Message: 14 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:51:31 -0700 From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension Message-ID: <-3834993404011304567@unknownmsgid> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Tiller clutch baby!
Daniel
On Jun 26, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Neil Dorf <ndorf@surfbest.net> wrote:
I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" but not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable and easy to grip.
Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to have a loyal following.
Neil
On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15@gmail.com> wrote:
After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward got me thing about tiller extensions again.
What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out.
Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone used that one?
Thanks Don M15-248
------------------------------
Message: 15 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:29:44 -0700 From: "Beowulf" <beowulf2@cox.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension Message-ID: <12E6629EA4BE4F9F8FFE5C27EA37EC1F@Mike> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original
Hello Don: Just went out and measured my forespar tiller extension and it is
27 inches long and extends out to 47 inches. Had it for 30 years so I am not
sure if forespar still makes it in that length. Has worked very well for me as it is useable as far forward as one can sit in the cockpit. I just recently purchased a tiller clutch and have installed it but have not sailed
with it yet.
Mike Hall M15 167 "Dreki"
----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Rich" <danielgrich@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:51 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension
Tiller clutch baby!
Daniel
On Jun 26, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Neil Dorf <ndorf@surfbest.net> wrote:
I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" but not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable and easy to grip.
Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to have a loyal following.
Neil
On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15@gmail.com> wrote:
After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward
got me thing about tiller extensions again.
What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out.
Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone used that one?
Thanks Don M15-248
------------------------------
Message: 16 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:39:14 -0700 From: "Beowulf" <beowulf2@cox.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Main sail luff slides Message-ID: <5A4F716F24D546938935F9EE4118AF9C@Mike> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello guys: can someone recommend a company in the Orange Co., CA area that installs main sail luff slides.
Thanks,
Mike Hall M15 167 "Dreki"
------------------------------
Message: 17 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:43:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Main sail luff slides Message-ID: <1340772225.33011.YahooMailNeo@web184506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Baxter and Cicero 9496427238 in Costa Mesa
________________________________ From: Beowulf <beowulf2@cox.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:39 PM Subject: M_Boats: Main sail luff slides
Hello guys: can someone recommend a company in the Orange Co., CA area that installs main sail luff slides.
Thanks,
Mike Hall M15 167 "Dreki"
------------------------------
Message: 18 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:52:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind Message-ID: <1340772764.28832.YahooMailNeo@web184501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
yes and depth limited to 2 feet
________________________________ From: James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 3:03 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind
Doesn't that measure water temperature too?
On Jun 26, 2012, at 2:52 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:
I've always used a P log!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com
To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind
I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls.
Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow.
Jeff Johnston
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log".? So much for my patent hopes...
On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving.? she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side.? i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit.? this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD.? be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit.? if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat.? if you don't have a tiller extension get one.? (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side.? the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds.? the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move ,? the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
-- *Jeff+* Mol?n labe!
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
------------------------------
_______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 112, Issue 9 ************************************************
yes i did seal up the aft locker on my M17. once consideration is to assure you have enough venting in/thru/out of the locker so as not to create a bomb on your boat. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Wed, 6/27/12, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
You mentioned the gas smell in the cabin in the discussion on electric motors. I sealed up the aft cockpit locker. I believe Dave Scobie did as well and maybe some others. It is open to the boat from under the transom coaming. Takes a bit of kneeling and bending. I used some 1/4" plywood ripped and then scribed to the slightly uneven opening width. Just so it wedged into place. Then set it in with some thickened epoxy and after that had set up, wetted out some glass fabric strips and laid them over the ply and thickened fillets. Not too smooth, but it is out of sight. Had to go back with a couple of dabs of thickened epoxy at the ends to get it all closed up.
Sure eliminated the gas smell in the cabin. I found that the cushions even smelled of gas. Now all that is gone.
I would question why the factory does not seal off that aft locker as it is most often used for gas storage. Bob? Jerry?
Bill Wickett Makin' Time M17 #622
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Randy, I too have been running a German-built electric outboard on lakes and bays in my 17, and it is quite nice with the remote control option that lets me control forward, reverse and speed with one lever while attending to other things. With the battery removed, I can easily carry the 17 pound motor despite some back issues. Mainly, i hated the gas smell that always lingered in the cabin, and now it is completely gone. Being green can be pleasant indeed, if you can afford the initial higher cost per horsepower, and don't need to travel 20 miles with zero wind. It is kind of like a sailboat without a motor, but the device is there if you are in desperate need of a kick. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
Dave, So far no bomb, because the hole where I run the gas line is almost as big as the priming bulb; I don't know about older boats with different configurations. Tom On Jun 28, 2012, at 8:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
yes i did seal up the aft locker on my M17.
once consideration is to assure you have enough venting in/thru/out of the locker so as not to create a bomb on your boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Wed, 6/27/12, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
You mentioned the gas smell in the cabin in the discussion on electric motors. I sealed up the aft cockpit locker. I believe Dave Scobie did as well and maybe some others. It is open to the boat from under the transom coaming. Takes a bit of kneeling and bending. I used some 1/4" plywood ripped and then scribed to the slightly uneven opening width. Just so it wedged into place. Then set it in with some thickened epoxy and after that had set up, wetted out some glass fabric strips and laid them over the ply and thickened fillets. Not too smooth, but it is out of sight. Had to go back with a couple of dabs of thickened epoxy at the ends to get it all closed up.
Sure eliminated the gas smell in the cabin. I found that the cushions even smelled of gas. Now all that is gone.
I would question why the factory does not seal off that aft locker as it is most often used for gas storage. Bob? Jerry?
Bill Wickett Makin' Time M17 #622
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Randy, I too have been running a German-built electric outboard on lakes and bays in my 17, and it is quite nice with the remote control option that lets me control forward, reverse and speed with one lever while attending to other things. With the battery removed, I can easily carry the 17 pound motor despite some back issues. Mainly, i hated the gas smell that always lingered in the cabin, and now it is completely gone. Being green can be pleasant indeed, if you can afford the initial higher cost per horsepower, and don't need to travel 20 miles with zero wind. It is kind of like a sailboat without a motor, but the device is there if you are in desperate need of a kick. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
Good point. I have depended on the factory hole out the transom that I run the gas line out of. Have you added any other venting? On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
yes i did seal up the aft locker on my M17.
once consideration is to assure you have enough venting in/thru/out of the locker so as not to create a bomb on your boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Wed, 6/27/12, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
You mentioned the gas smell in the cabin in the discussion on electric motors. I sealed up the aft cockpit locker. I believe Dave Scobie did as well and maybe some others. It is open to the boat from under the transom coaming. Takes a bit of kneeling and bending. I used some 1/4" plywood ripped and then scribed to the slightly uneven opening width. Just so it wedged into place. Then set it in with some thickened epoxy and after that had set up, wetted out some glass fabric strips and laid them over the ply and thickened fillets. Not too smooth, but it is out of sight. Had to go back with a couple of dabs of thickened epoxy at the ends to get it all closed up.
Sure eliminated the gas smell in the cabin. I found that the cushions even smelled of gas. Now all that is gone.
I would question why the factory does not seal off that aft locker as it is most often used for gas storage. Bob? Jerry?
Bill Wickett Makin' Time M17 #622
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Randy, I too have been running a German-built electric outboard on lakes and bays in my 17, and it is quite nice with the remote control option that lets me control forward, reverse and speed with one lever while attending to other things. With the battery removed, I can easily carry the 17 pound motor despite some back issues. Mainly, i hated the gas smell that always lingered in the cabin, and now it is completely gone. Being green can be pleasant indeed, if you can afford the initial higher cost per horsepower, and don't need to travel 20 miles with zero wind. It is kind of like a sailboat without a motor, but the device is there if you are in desperate need of a kick. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
Bill, No, I have not worried about it. Maybe fumes build up and dissipate as we bounce around in a seaway, but there is usually air flowing over the hole to create some Ventura suction. For whatever reason, the smell in the gas locker does not seem that bad. Nevertheless, I have lots of experience wi†h engine compartments and gas leaks, and out of an excess of caution I do not strike a spark to test the fume concentration. Truth be told, the fume level in the cabin was never noticeable to some people (including my wife with a bionic nose), or dangerous to health, but I have developed a keen sensitivity to gasoline and kerosene through repeated exposure, so I wanted to do something about it. Tom Jenkins 2004 M17 Scintilla On Jun 28, 2012, at 9:30 AM, Bill Wickett wrote:
Good point. I have depended on the factory hole out the transom that I run the gas line out of. Have you added any other venting?
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
yes i did seal up the aft locker on my M17.
once consideration is to assure you have enough venting in/thru/out of the locker so as not to create a bomb on your boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Wed, 6/27/12, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
You mentioned the gas smell in the cabin in the discussion on electric motors. I sealed up the aft cockpit locker. I believe Dave Scobie did as well and maybe some others. It is open to the boat from under the transom coaming. Takes a bit of kneeling and bending. I used some 1/4" plywood ripped and then scribed to the slightly uneven opening width. Just so it wedged into place. Then set it in with some thickened epoxy and after that had set up, wetted out some glass fabric strips and laid them over the ply and thickened fillets. Not too smooth, but it is out of sight. Had to go back with a couple of dabs of thickened epoxy at the ends to get it all closed up.
Sure eliminated the gas smell in the cabin. I found that the cushions even smelled of gas. Now all that is gone.
I would question why the factory does not seal off that aft locker as it is most often used for gas storage. Bob? Jerry?
Bill Wickett Makin' Time M17 #622
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Randy, I too have been running a German-built electric outboard on lakes and bays in my 17, and it is quite nice with the remote control option that lets me control forward, reverse and speed with one lever while attending to other things. With the battery removed, I can easily carry the 17 pound motor despite some back issues. Mainly, i hated the gas smell that always lingered in the cabin, and now it is completely gone. Being green can be pleasant indeed, if you can afford the initial higher cost per horsepower, and don't need to travel 20 miles with zero wind. It is kind of like a sailboat without a motor, but the device is there if you are in desperate need of a kick. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
i have been relying on the thru-transom hole for an outboard fuel line along with the two drain holes that go through the cockpit footwell bulkhead into the stern locker. (remember that there are differences on how the cockpit drains are routed and plumbed based on M17's year/builder.) after reading more on safe boat systems these small holes are, in my opinion, to small. a larger 'passive vent' is required. i'll be adding a large(ish) stainless vent to the footwell wall between the stern locker cockpit. details from USCG- "Open to the atmosphere" means a compartment that has at least 15 square inches of open area directly exposed to the atmosphere for each cubic foot of net compartment volume. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Thu, 6/28/12, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Good point. I have depended on the factory hole out the transom that I run the gas line out of. Have you added any other venting?
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
yes i did seal up the aft locker on my M17.
once consideration is to assure you have enough venting in/thru/out of the locker so as not to create a bomb on your boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
Thanks for that. I felt it was too small, but had not done anything about it. Our drains are plumbed from cockpit to transom, so not venting there. On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 1:15 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
i have been relying on the thru-transom hole for an outboard fuel line along with the two drain holes that go through the cockpit footwell bulkhead into the stern locker. (remember that there are differences on how the cockpit drains are routed and plumbed based on M17's year/builder.)
after reading more on safe boat systems these small holes are, in my opinion, to small. a larger 'passive vent' is required. i'll be adding a large(ish) stainless vent to the footwell wall between the stern locker cockpit.
details from USCG-
"Open to the atmosphere" means a compartment that has at least 15 square inches of open area directly exposed to the atmosphere for each cubic foot of net compartment volume.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Thu, 6/28/12, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Good point. I have depended on the factory hole out the transom that I run the gas line out of. Have you added any other venting?
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 11:48 AM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
yes i did seal up the aft locker on my M17.
once consideration is to assure you have enough venting in/thru/out of the locker so as not to create a bomb on your boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
How did you increase your ventilation after sealing off all the nooks and crannies to the cabin?? To seal it off can I just use some of that close cell foam spray used for home insulation around windows and outlets?? Of course I would have to put in some backing.. Joe SeaFrog ----- Original Message ----- From: W David Scobie To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:48 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Gas smell in cabin yes i did seal up the aft locker on my M17. once consideration is to assure you have enough venting in/thru/out of the locker so as not to create a bomb on your boat. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Wed, 6/27/12, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
You mentioned the gas smell in the cabin in the discussion on electric motors. I sealed up the aft cockpit locker. I believe Dave Scobie did as well and maybe some others. It is open to the boat from under the transom coaming. Takes a bit of kneeling and bending. I used some 1/4" plywood ripped and then scribed to the slightly uneven opening width. Just so it wedged into place. Then set it in with some thickened epoxy and after that had set up, wetted out some glass fabric strips and laid them over the ply and thickened fillets. Not too smooth, but it is out of sight. Had to go back with a couple of dabs of thickened epoxy at the ends to get it all closed up.
Sure eliminated the gas smell in the cabin. I found that the cushions even smelled of gas. Now all that is gone.
I would question why the factory does not seal off that aft locker as it is most often used for gas storage. Bob? Jerry?
Bill Wickett Makin' Time M17 #622
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Randy, I too have been running a German-built electric outboard on lakes and bays in my 17, and it is quite nice with the remote control option that lets me control forward, reverse and speed with one lever while attending to other things. With the battery removed, I can easily carry the 17 pound motor despite some back issues. Mainly, i hated the gas smell that always lingered in the cabin, and now it is completely gone. Being green can be pleasant indeed, if you can afford the initial higher cost per horsepower, and don't need to travel 20 miles with zero wind. It is kind of like a sailboat without a motor, but the device is there if you are in desperate need of a kick. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
pictures and details on how i sealed off the stern locker from the cabin on SWEET PEA here - http://m17-375.webs.com/apps/blog/show/6823225 :: Dave Scobie --- On Thu, 6/28/12, Joe Murphy <seagray@embarqmail.com> wrote:
How did you increase your ventilation after sealing off all the nooks and crannies to the cabin??
To seal it off can I just use some of that close cell foam spray used for home insulation around windows and outlets?? Of course I would have to put in some backing.. Joe SeaFrog
----- Original Message ----- From: W David Scobie To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:48 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Gas smell in cabin
yes i did seal up the aft locker on my M17.
once consideration is to assure you have enough venting in/thru/out of the locker so as not to create a bomb on your boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
Bill, I still plan on doing pretty much what you say, because I have trips planned that will require my Honda 5. I tried some injectable insulating foam, but I was not able to do an adequate job. With the electric, my motivation to finish the job is considerably less than it was; a flaw in human nature, I suppose. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla On Jun 27, 2012, at 6:19 PM, Bill Wickett wrote:
Tom,
You mentioned the gas smell in the cabin in the discussion on electric motors. I sealed up the aft cockpit locker. I believe Dave Scobie did as well and maybe some others. It is open to the boat from under the transom coaming. Takes a bit of kneeling and bending. I used some 1/4" plywood ripped and then scribed to the slightly uneven opening width. Just so it wedged into place. Then set it in with some thickened epoxy and after that had set up, wetted out some glass fabric strips and laid them over the ply and thickened fillets. Not too smooth, but it is out of sight. Had to go back with a couple of dabs of thickened epoxy at the ends to get it all closed up.
Sure eliminated the gas smell in the cabin. I found that the cushions even smelled of gas. Now all that is gone.
I would question why the factory does not seal off that aft locker as it is most often used for gas storage. Bob? Jerry?
Bill Wickett Makin' Time M17 #622
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 9:03 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Randy, I too have been running a German-built electric outboard on lakes and bays in my 17, and it is quite nice with the remote control option that lets me control forward, reverse and speed with one lever while attending to other things. With the battery removed, I can easily carry the 17 pound motor despite some back issues. Mainly, i hated the gas smell that always lingered in the cabin, and now it is completely gone. Being green can be pleasant indeed, if you can afford the initial higher cost per horsepower, and don't need to travel 20 miles with zero wind. It is kind of like a sailboat without a motor, but the device is there if you are in desperate need of a kick. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
On Jun 27, 2012, at 1:38 PM, Randy wrote:
After some 11 years of following threads on engine ideas, I finally made a dead weight adjustment. After all, when you are sailing the engine, fuel tank fuel are all dead weight. I went from a 100lb. 9.9 Yamaha outboard to a 3.5hp 35lb electric....o.k. so I am an extremist! Still, it sails much better. I also got rid of one of my two deep cycle marine batteries. It also was strapped at the bottom aft corner of the boat. So far, it has worked out well in even some pretty testy mountain lake winds. And, as expected, in light winds we are moving along much better! Thanks to all who have finally gotten through this thick skull...now a thick "green" skull.
Randy M-17 "Fore Play"
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:53 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 112, Issue 9
Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com
You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: How much heel on M17 (Tom Jenkins) 2. Re: How much heel on M17 (W David Scobie) 3. Re: How much heel on M17 (John Schinnerer) 4. Re: How much heel on M17 (Tom Jenkins) 5. Re: How much heel on M17 (jerry montgomery) 6. Re: aspens are trembling outside my window (W David Scobie) 7. Re: How much wind (James Poulakis) 8. Re: How much wind (Jeffrey Johnston) 9. Re: How much wind (jerry montgomery) 10. Re: How much wind (James Poulakis) 11. M15 Tiller Extension (Don) 12. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Neil Dorf) 13. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Tod) 14. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Daniel Rich) 15. Re: M15 Tiller Extension (Beowulf) 16. Main sail luff slides (Beowulf) 17. Re: Main sail luff slides (Stan Susman) 18. Re: How much wind (Stan Susman)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:42:36 -0700 From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 Message-ID: <58224808-8687-4D91-9CDE-A19D9A4AF46C@gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Dave, Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that word.
On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19.
the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side.
hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails best flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I never checked. What you think? Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:48:07 -0700 (PDT) From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 Message-ID: <1340736487.98898.YahooMailClassic@web162704.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Tom:
more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her heeling.
M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks.? Been waiting years to use that word.?
On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15.? i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19.
the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel.? much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side.
hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails
best
flat.? I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I never checked.? What you think? Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
------------------------------
Message: 3 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 11:57:18 -0700 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 Message-ID: <4FEA060E.1030905@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
In the world of paddlecraft (canoe and kayak) we'd call that the difference between 'primary stability' and 'secondary stability' - sounds like the M15 has 'loose' primary stability (wobbles when flat) and distinct secondary stability (sits securely 'on edge' or with a bit of heel). The M17 sounds like it has slightly more primary stability.
Terminology...go figure!
cheers, John S.
On 06/26/2012 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
Tom:
more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her heeling.
M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that word.
On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19.
the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side.
hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote: > > Dave, > My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails best > flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I > never checked. What you think? > Tom Jenkins > M17 Scintilla > >
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net http://eco-living.net
------------------------------
Message: 4 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:11:40 -0700 From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 Message-ID: <20506EB8-AE32-4B5E-846E-13F80DAD41AD@gte.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Dave, Got it; not 10 degrees veering of the bow from the average direction of travel. That would be poor tracking. I have not sailed an M15, but as John S. suggests, the M17 is not very "tippy" for its weight. Hey, the aspens are trembling outside my window; time to go sailing instead of sitting in front of the computer. Tom
On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
Tom:
more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her heeling.
M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that word.
On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19.
the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side.
hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote: > > Dave, > My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails best > flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I > never checked. What you think? > Tom Jenkins > M17 Scintilla > >
------------------------------
Message: 5 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 12:35:36 -0700 From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: <john@eco-living.net>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17 Message-ID: <CB1FB5223DC8446CBE791C095D8A19D1@jerryws10> Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type="response"
John- what do you paddle, out of curiousity?
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 11:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much heel on M17
In the world of paddlecraft (canoe and kayak) we'd call that the difference between 'primary stability' and 'secondary stability' - sounds like the M15 has 'loose' primary stability (wobbles when flat) and distinct secondary stability (sits securely 'on edge' or with a bit of heel). The M17 sounds like it has slightly more primary stability.
Terminology...go figure!
cheers, John S.
On 06/26/2012 11:48 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
Tom:
more roll than yaw. the M15 wants to stay on her course (not yaw) just roll ... wobble ;-) ... from port to starboard if you don't have her heeling.
M17 isn't doesn't do this as much as the M15.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, Your "wobble" is a "yaw", methinks. Been waiting years to use that word.
On Jun 26, 2012, at 11:19 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
> the M17 likes to be a bit more flat than the M15. i find SWEET PEA sails better with some heal ... more than a P15 or P19. > > the M15 will 'wobble' port to starboard some, from about 10 degrees one side to 10 degrees other side (ie, 20 deg. arc) if you try to keep her flat as her hull shape 'wants' her to heel. much more 'stable' if you have her leaning to one side. > > hull shapes, when looking closely, are very different on the M17 and M15, especially the hull shape port and starboard of the keel, and aft of the keel. > > > :: Dave Scobie > :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred > :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com > > --- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote: >> >> Dave, >> My first little boat was a Potter 14, which sails best >> flat. I assumed an M17 likes to be flat too, but I >> never checked. What you think? >> Tom Jenkins >> M17 Scintilla >> >> >
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net http://eco-living.net
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 6728 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
------------------------------
Message: 6 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:02:05 -0700 (PDT) From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: aspens are trembling outside my window Message-ID: <1340740925.96334.YahooMailClassic@web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
going sailing on your boat is best idea shared by any of us today!!! :-)
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Tue, 6/26/12, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Dave, Got it; not 10 degrees veering of the bow from the average direction of travel.? That would be poor tracking.???I have not sailed an M15, but as John S. suggests, the M17 is not very "tippy" for its weight.? Hey, the aspens are trembling outside my window; time to go sailing instead of sitting in front of the computer. Tom
------------------------------
Message: 7 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:01:22 -0700 From: James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind Message-ID: <542BA21D-91FF-4789-B5A2-9B96E322BB51@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent hopes...
On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
------------------------------
Message: 8 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:15:07 -0500 From: Jeffrey Johnston <frjeff@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind Message-ID: < CAFS5qAs+spg4m3czePcOjUthh_X77-+5aF9gBBDfdjpFX8rMKQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls.
Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow.
Jeff Johnston
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent hopes...
On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
-- *Jeff+* Mol?n labe!
------------------------------
Message: 9 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:52:26 -0700 From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind Message-ID: <0CD48FC8164349C2AC783D9694EDF838@jerryws10> Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="utf-8"; reply-type="original"
I've always used a P log!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind
I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls.
Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow.
Jeff Johnston
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent hopes...
On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote:
can someone tell me how much wind it takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it take Thanks KLaas
-- *Jeff+* Mol?n labe!
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
------------------------------
Message: 10 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:03:25 -0700 From: James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind Message-ID: <316ED3E4-DC68-475B-A458-3FDECB6C6139@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Doesn't that measure water temperature too?
On Jun 26, 2012, at 2:52 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:
I've always used a P log!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com
To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind
I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls.
Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow.
Jeff Johnston
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log". So much for my patent hopes...
On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving. she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side. i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit. this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD. be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit. if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat. if you don't have a tiller extension get one. (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side. the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds. the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote: > > can someone tell me how much wind it > takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a > tide , so I can't tell what is making me move , the > wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it > take > Thanks > KLaas >
-- *Jeff+* Mol?n labe!
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
------------------------------
Message: 11 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 18:59:15 -0700 From: Don <sailmonty15@gmail.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension Message-ID: <4FEA68F3.2080309@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward got me thing about tiller extensions again.
What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out.
Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone used that one?
Thanks Don M15-248
------------------------------
Message: 12 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:20:23 -0700 From: Neil Dorf <ndorf@surfbest.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension Message-ID: <B7ADE2EC-6CA6-4FE3-B8AF-C3C8754FC488@surfbest.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" but not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable and easy to grip.
Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to have a loyal following.
Neil
On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15@gmail.com> wrote:
After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward got me thing about tiller extensions again.
What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out.
Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone used that one?
Thanks Don M15-248
------------------------------
Message: 13 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 22:24:51 -0400 From: "Tod" <htmills@zoominternet.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension Message-ID: <00d101cd540c$08177c30$18467490$@net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
BuscaBrisas came with a Davis Tiller Tamer, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
Tod
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Neil Dorf Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 10:20 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension
I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" but not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable and easy to grip.
Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to have a loyal following.
Neil
On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15@gmail.com> wrote:
After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward got me thing about tiller extensions again.
What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out.
Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone used that one?
Thanks Don M15-248
------------------------------
Message: 14 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:51:31 -0700 From: Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension Message-ID: <-3834993404011304567@unknownmsgid> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Tiller clutch baby!
Daniel
On Jun 26, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Neil Dorf <ndorf@surfbest.net> wrote:
I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" but not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable and easy to grip.
Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to have a loyal following.
Neil
On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15@gmail.com> wrote:
After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward got me thing about tiller extensions again.
What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out.
Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone used that one?
Thanks Don M15-248
------------------------------
Message: 15 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:29:44 -0700 From: "Beowulf" <beowulf2@cox.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension Message-ID: <12E6629EA4BE4F9F8FFE5C27EA37EC1F@Mike> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original
Hello Don: Just went out and measured my forespar tiller extension and it is
27 inches long and extends out to 47 inches. Had it for 30 years so I am not
sure if forespar still makes it in that length. Has worked very well for me as it is useable as far forward as one can sit in the cockpit. I just recently purchased a tiller clutch and have installed it but have not sailed
with it yet.
Mike Hall M15 167 "Dreki"
----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Rich" <danielgrich@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 7:51 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 Tiller Extension
Tiller clutch baby!
Daniel
On Jun 26, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Neil Dorf <ndorf@surfbest.net> wrote:
I use a Ronstan Battlestick for my M15 and like it. I think it's 18" but not sure. The round golf ball sized, foam encased end is comfortable and easy to grip.
Now contemplating Tiller Tamer vs Tiller Clutch...the latter seems to have a loyal following.
Neil
On Jun 26, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Don <sailmonty15@gmail.com> wrote:
After reading recent posts that the M15 sails better with weight forward
got me thing about tiller extensions again.
What are other M15 sailer's using and how is it working out.
Forespar has a 24 inch extension for a reasonable price. Has anyone used that one?
Thanks Don M15-248
------------------------------
Message: 16 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:39:14 -0700 From: "Beowulf" <beowulf2@cox.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Main sail luff slides Message-ID: <5A4F716F24D546938935F9EE4118AF9C@Mike> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello guys: can someone recommend a company in the Orange Co., CA area that installs main sail luff slides.
Thanks,
Mike Hall M15 167 "Dreki"
------------------------------
Message: 17 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:43:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Main sail luff slides Message-ID: <1340772225.33011.YahooMailNeo@web184506.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Baxter and Cicero 9496427238 in Costa Mesa
________________________________ From: Beowulf <beowulf2@cox.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 9:39 PM Subject: M_Boats: Main sail luff slides
Hello guys: can someone recommend a company in the Orange Co., CA area that installs main sail luff slides.
Thanks,
Mike Hall M15 167 "Dreki"
------------------------------
Message: 18 Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:52:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind Message-ID: <1340772764.28832.YahooMailNeo@web184501.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
yes and depth limited to 2 feet
________________________________ From: James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 3:03 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind
Doesn't that measure water temperature too?
On Jun 26, 2012, at 2:52 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:
I've always used a P log!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey Johnston" <frjeff@gmail.com
To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2012 2:15 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: How much wind
I've used your spit log for years - with pumpkin seed hulls.
Off to Tawas Bay (Lake Huron) for a *"Wrinkles"* sail tomorrow.
Jeff Johnston
On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 4:01 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
Damn, I thought I had invented the "Spit Log".? So much for my patent hopes...
On Jun 26, 2012, at 8:17 AM, W David Scobie wrote:
i sailed my M15 when there were no cat's paws on the water ... loved doing this as i would sail right by boats two, three, four times longer. in these wind conditions the M15 will out-sail the M17 and M23.
if you can steer the M15 you are moving.? she will have helm control (yes, rather slow to respond) even is she is 'barely moving'.
i admit that this is a bit disgusting ... if i'm not sure the boat is moving i will spit over the side.? i can then see if the boat is moving in relation to the spit.? this is better than moving the tiller needlessly (as noted above) ... as tiller movement slows the boat.
i recommend two things when sailing in light winds on the M15 -
* SIT FORWARD.? be sitting at the bulkhead that separates the cabin and cockpit.? if you sit aft you drag the transom and slow/stop the boat.? if you don't have a tiller extension get one.? (FYI, this is how you should be sitting on the M15 when sailing regardless of the wind speed).
* sit on the leeward side.? the M15 sails best heeling at 5-10 degrees. this is especially true in light winds.? the M15 is not at her best when sailing 'flat' ... even when the wind is 'up'.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Mon, 6/25/12, Klaas <santaklaas@telus.net> wrote: > > can someone tell me how much wind it > takes to move a Monty 15 . Where I sail there is always a > tide , so I can't tell what is making me move ,? the > wind or the tide . But Im wondering how much wind does it > take > Thanks > KLaas >
-- *Jeff+* Mol?n labe!
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 6729 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
------------------------------
_______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 112, Issue 9 ************************************************
Speaking of long trips with the Honda 5, we traveled to Toronto this past weekend. 25nm over the west end of Lake Ontario. Left last Thursday. There was an approaching front, and we could not get away until early afternoon. So sailed to another small port 10 miles away (Bronte). Was pretty lively. We put in "the" reef. (our main only has 1) and used the working jib. Half way there we took the reef out. Got to port, settled in, walked up to a pub and watched the front come through while having supper. Looking further east down the lake we were glad to have amended the plan and not been caught out. Friday morning motored for a couple of hours, then within 5 miles of Toronto, were able to use the main and spinnaker. Return trip on Sunday was a straight shot across. Sailed for 5 miles with spinnaker and main, then lost pretty well all wind, so motored sailed with main the remaining 20 nm. 4 hours at 5 knots. Used 1-1/2 gallons for that leg. Had filled up at Toronto Island Marina and the tank was at about 1/2 when we got back to Fifty Point. Mooring at Toronto Island is very nice. Public wall to tie up to with power. Water taps every once and a while. Firepits, wash rooms, showers. Ducks, geese, kayakers, tour boats, ferry boats, all within sight of the CN Tower and the city skyline across the harbour. Made for an interesting couple of days gawking at all the passing traffic and people. We did meet up with our daughter and headed out for a sail, an anchor and a swim off of Hanlan's point. Will definitely go again. Bill Makin' Time M17 #622 On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Bill, I still plan on doing pretty much what you say, because I have trips planned that will require my Honda 5. I tried some injectable insulating foam, but I was not able to do an adequate job. With the electric, my motivation to finish the job is considerably less than it was; a flaw in human nature, I suppose. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
Now, that's what it's all about. On Jun 28, 2012, at 10:13 AM, Bill Wickett wrote:
Speaking of long trips with the Honda 5, we traveled to Toronto this past weekend. 25nm over the west end of Lake Ontario. Left last Thursday. There was an approaching front, and we could not get away until early afternoon. So sailed to another small port 10 miles away (Bronte). Was pretty lively. We put in "the" reef. (our main only has 1) and used the working jib. Half way there we took the reef out. Got to port, settled in, walked up to a pub and watched the front come through while having supper. Looking further east down the lake we were glad to have amended the plan and not been caught out. Friday morning motored for a couple of hours, then within 5 miles of Toronto, were able to use the main and spinnaker.
Return trip on Sunday was a straight shot across. Sailed for 5 miles with spinnaker and main, then lost pretty well all wind, so motored sailed with main the remaining 20 nm. 4 hours at 5 knots. Used 1-1/2 gallons for that leg. Had filled up at Toronto Island Marina and the tank was at about 1/2 when we got back to Fifty Point.
Mooring at Toronto Island is very nice. Public wall to tie up to with power. Water taps every once and a while. Firepits, wash rooms, showers. Ducks, geese, kayakers, tour boats, ferry boats, all within sight of the CN Tower and the city skyline across the harbour. Made for an interesting couple of days gawking at all the passing traffic and people. We did meet up with our daughter and headed out for a sail, an anchor and a swim off of Hanlan's point. Will definitely go again.
Bill Makin' Time M17 #622
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Bill, I still plan on doing pretty much what you say, because I have trips planned that will require my Honda 5. I tried some injectable insulating foam, but I was not able to do an adequate job. With the electric, my motivation to finish the job is considerably less than it was; a flaw in human nature, I suppose. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
<IMG-20120623-00120.jpg>
Few more pics on this Picasa gallery. http://bit.ly/LDUjC2 On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Now, that's what it's all about.
On Jun 28, 2012, at 10:13 AM, Bill Wickett wrote:
Speaking of long trips with the Honda 5, we traveled to Toronto this past weekend. 25nm over the west end of Lake Ontario. Left last Thursday. There was an approaching front, and we could not get away until early afternoon. So sailed to another small port 10 miles away (Bronte). Was pretty lively. We put in "the" reef. (our main only has 1) and used the working jib. Half way there we took the reef out. Got to port, settled in, walked up to a pub and watched the front come through while having supper. Looking further east down the lake we were glad to have amended the plan and not been caught out. Friday morning motored for a couple of hours, then within 5 miles of Toronto, were able to use the main and spinnaker.
Return trip on Sunday was a straight shot across. Sailed for 5 miles with spinnaker and main, then lost pretty well all wind, so motored sailed with main the remaining 20 nm. 4 hours at 5 knots. Used 1-1/2 gallons for that leg. Had filled up at Toronto Island Marina and the tank was at about 1/2 when we got back to Fifty Point.
Mooring at Toronto Island is very nice. Public wall to tie up to with power. Water taps every once and a while. Firepits, wash rooms, showers. Ducks, geese, kayakers, tour boats, ferry boats, all within sight of the CN Tower and the city skyline across the harbour. Made for an interesting couple of days gawking at all the passing traffic and people. We did meet up with our daughter and headed out for a sail, an anchor and a swim off of Hanlan's point. Will definitely go again.
Bill Makin' Time M17 #622
On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Bill, I still plan on doing pretty much what you say, because I have trips planned that will require my Honda 5. I tried some injectable insulating foam, but I was not able to do an adequate job. With the electric, my motivation to finish the job is considerably less than it was; a flaw in human nature, I suppose. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
<IMG-20120623-00120.jpg>
participants (4)
-
Bill Wickett -
Joe Murphy -
Tom Jenkins -
W David Scobie