Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 193, Issue 5
m15 vs M17....M-15 bunks easier to crawl into than M-17 because of M-17 deck support stanchion inside cabin. Best Kirby S. M-17hull 395 On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 1:01 PM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 2. Re: M17 vs M15 (Bob Eeg) 3. Re: M17 vs M15 (Lawrence Winiarski) 4. Re: M17 vs M15 (John Schinnerer) 5. Re: M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 6. Re: M17 vs M15 (islandergirl80@yahoo.com) 7. Re: M17 vs M15 (Thomas Buzzi) 8. Re: M17 vs M15 (Douglas Kelch)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 19:35:49 -0800 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: <62D24DB5-4B02-4588-B7AF-B96040609716@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Skipper On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. If you what more details sand me an email
Captain Dos Colitas Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Hi James,
Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever.
--Burt in Maine
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com> wrote:
My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 M17(Not Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge works. Jim in Denton Texas
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 04:08:11 +0000 From: Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: < MWHPR1701MB19366B7493719DA1D92BF472B74D0@MWHPR1701MB1936.namprd17.prod.outlook.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Pete
Get one built after 1995. Bring a magnet with you to make sure Lead ballast.
Bob....
[image1.jpeg]
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 7, 2019, at 7:36 PM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Skipper On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. If you what more details sand me an email
Captain Dos Colitas Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Hi James,
Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever.
--Burt in Maine
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com<mailto: jamesehymes@gmail.com>> wrote:
My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 M17(Not Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge works. Jim in Denton Texas
True, that! And ironically the M15 V-berth is a little bit longer than the M17 (actual sleeping length). That said, being a tall (but thin) guy, there's no room inside an M15 to do anything other than crawl into the V-berth! The M17 has that ~3 ft. of (wider higher) cabin space aft of V-berth for cooking, lounging, etc. in less than clement weather. It's quite a bit more space inside. cheers, John On 03/08/2019 07:11 PM, Kirby Stross wrote:
m15 vs M17....M-15 bunks easier to crawl into than M-17 because of M-17 deck support stanchion inside cabin.
Best
Kirby S.
M-17hull 395
On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 1:01 PM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com
You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 2. Re: M17 vs M15 (Bob Eeg) 3. Re: M17 vs M15 (Lawrence Winiarski) 4. Re: M17 vs M15 (John Schinnerer) 5. Re: M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 6. Re: M17 vs M15 (islandergirl80@yahoo.com) 7. Re: M17 vs M15 (Thomas Buzzi) 8. Re: M17 vs M15 (Douglas Kelch)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 19:35:49 -0800 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: <62D24DB5-4B02-4588-B7AF-B96040609716@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Skipper On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. If you what more details sand me an email
Captain Dos Colitas Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Hi James,
Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever.
--Burt in Maine
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com> wrote:
My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 M17(Not Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge works. Jim in Denton Texas
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 04:08:11 +0000 From: Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: < MWHPR1701MB19366B7493719DA1D92BF472B74D0@MWHPR1701MB1936.namprd17.prod.outlook.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Pete
Get one built after 1995. Bring a magnet with you to make sure Lead ballast.
Bob....
[image1.jpeg]
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 7, 2019, at 7:36 PM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Skipper On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. If you what more details sand me an email
Captain Dos Colitas Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Hi James,
Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever.
--Burt in Maine
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com<mailto: jamesehymes@gmail.com>> wrote:
My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 M17(Not Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge works. Jim in Denton Texas
Wow! All this food for thought. Great group of boaters. For me, I think small boat vs. big boat is a personal debate on safety on being on open water in a small boat. I love the open water of the islands, but would I be safer in a larger boat. Sometimes I feel guilty that I’m a burden on other members of the Southern Idaho Sailing Association when we come over each August to do our cruise. Just wondering. Thanks for listening, Pete Chinook Breeze M15 377 Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 8, 2019, at 20:25, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
True, that! And ironically the M15 V-berth is a little bit longer than the M17 (actual sleeping length).
That said, being a tall (but thin) guy, there's no room inside an M15 to do anything other than crawl into the V-berth!
The M17 has that ~3 ft. of (wider higher) cabin space aft of V-berth for cooking, lounging, etc. in less than clement weather.
It's quite a bit more space inside.
cheers, John
On 03/08/2019 07:11 PM, Kirby Stross wrote: m15 vs M17....M-15 bunks easier to crawl into than M-17 because of M-17 deck support stanchion inside cabin. Best Kirby S. M-17hull 395 On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 1:01 PM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com
You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 2. Re: M17 vs M15 (Bob Eeg) 3. Re: M17 vs M15 (Lawrence Winiarski) 4. Re: M17 vs M15 (John Schinnerer) 5. Re: M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 6. Re: M17 vs M15 (islandergirl80@yahoo.com) 7. Re: M17 vs M15 (Thomas Buzzi) 8. Re: M17 vs M15 (Douglas Kelch)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 19:35:49 -0800 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: <62D24DB5-4B02-4588-B7AF-B96040609716@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Skipper On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. If you what more details sand me an email
Captain Dos Colitas Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Hi James,
Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever.
--Burt in Maine
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com> wrote:
My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 M17(Not Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge works. Jim in Denton Texas
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 04:08:11 +0000 From: Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: < MWHPR1701MB19366B7493719DA1D92BF472B74D0@MWHPR1701MB1936.namprd17.prod.outlook.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Pete
Get one built after 1995. Bring a magnet with you to make sure Lead ballast.
Bob....
[image1.jpeg]
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 7, 2019, at 7:36 PM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Skipper On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. If you what more details sand me an email
Captain Dos Colitas Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Hi James,
Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever.
--Burt in Maine
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com<mailto: jamesehymes@gmail.com>> wrote:
My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 M17(Not Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge works. Jim in Denton Texas
Pete, sounds like for you it’s a question of perceived safety, rather than amount of living space that makes you consider a larger boat. So let’s look at it from how the differences between the two would play out in the San Juan’s. I’ve yet to take my 15 to the San Juan’s, and haven’t sailed a 17, so all, jump on me where I get this wrong! The 17 will have a smidge more speed under both sail n power, but both will still require planning to hit the tides right for the passages with the strongest current. Neither will power through a 6 knot ebb while you drink a cocktail. The two boats will be the same re probably the greatest hazard to small boats in summer, ship/boat traffic in fog in the passages to/from the islands. A horn, radar reflector n radio fit on both. The volume and greater ballast of a 17 may make her a more comfortable boat in a heavy sea (?) but the San Juans are mostly pretty protected waters without an ocean swell except for the sw of San Juan island. If you were dead set on crossing the Straights from Port Townsend, then you’ve got a real open water challenge- one both boats are probably up to, but a long trip in a small boat in an area where strong winds and swell can come up quickly and not a lot of easy refuges. Sounds like a nervous crossing in either boat. But there’s no reason to do that if you don’t want. I’ve heard of folks taking their boats on the ferry and launching from a ramp on Friday Harbor, and sticking to the inner islands in order to avoid the crossing from Anacortes. The 15 would be easier n cheaper to put on the ferry... Likewise one can trailer to the Vancouver island shore and sail the Gulf Islands with no need for a crossing. Both options would keep you in pretty protected waters yet let you make some outer passages as weather and comfort allow. I’m imagining the 15 as more prone to a knockdown in a sudden gust- but I’d ask others how often in summer they have faced that kind of squally condition in the San Juans. If you are comfortable sailing squirrelly Idaho Lakes in winter, I suspect you’d be fine in a San Juan summer. Lack of wind is the more common complaint, and space to carry gas might be the main limit on the 15.... Curious on others thoughts on differences in seaworthiness between the two boats n how that would play out in the San Juan’s. Looking forward to getting up there myself this summer! Alex On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 7:36 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Wow! All this food for thought. Great group of boaters. For me, I think small boat vs. big boat is a personal debate on safety on being on open water in a small boat. I love the open water of the islands, but would I be safer in a larger boat. Sometimes I feel guilty that I’m a burden on other members of the Southern Idaho Sailing Association when we come over each August to do our cruise. Just wondering. Thanks for listening,
Pete Chinook Breeze M15 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 8, 2019, at 20:25, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
True, that! And ironically the M15 V-berth is a little bit longer than the M17 (actual sleeping length).
That said, being a tall (but thin) guy, there's no room inside an M15 to do anything other than crawl into the V-berth!
The M17 has that ~3 ft. of (wider higher) cabin space aft of V-berth for cooking, lounging, etc. in less than clement weather.
It's quite a bit more space inside.
cheers, John
On 03/08/2019 07:11 PM, Kirby Stross wrote: m15 vs M17....M-15 bunks easier to crawl into than M-17 because of M-17 deck support stanchion inside cabin. Best Kirby S. M-17hull 395 On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 1:01 PM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 2. Re: M17 vs M15 (Bob Eeg) 3. Re: M17 vs M15 (Lawrence Winiarski) 4. Re: M17 vs M15 (John Schinnerer) 5. Re: M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 6. Re: M17 vs M15 (islandergirl80@yahoo.com) 7. Re: M17 vs M15 (Thomas Buzzi) 8. Re: M17 vs M15 (Douglas Kelch)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 19:35:49 -0800 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: <62D24DB5-4B02-4588-B7AF-B96040609716@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Skipper On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. If you what more details sand me an email
Captain Dos Colitas Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Hi James,
Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever.
--Burt in Maine
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com> wrote: > > My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 > M17(Not > Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, > but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's > not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the > cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . > Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the > top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, > floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was > able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to > have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - > since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop > all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail > with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the > amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely > hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and > lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it > from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. > If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for > the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge > works. Jim in Denton Texas >
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 04:08:11 +0000 From: Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: <
MWHPR1701MB19366B7493719DA1D92BF472B74D0@MWHPR1701MB1936.namprd17.prod.outlook.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Pete
Get one built after 1995. Bring a magnet with you to make sure Lead ballast.
Bob....
[image1.jpeg]
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 7, 2019, at 7:36 PM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com <mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Skipper On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. If you what more details sand me an email
Captain Dos Colitas Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Hi James,
Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever.
--Burt in Maine
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com <mailto: jamesehymes@gmail.com>> wrote:
My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 M17(Not Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge works. Jim in Denton Texas
Hi Pete, We've never sailed the San Juan's, but have spent most our time on the waters of the Maine coast, which I hear are similar. My advice: boat size is just one factor. Seaworthiness can be elusive. Our lesson learned: be used to whatever you are sailing in so that you can respond without thinking. We got knocked down in the West Wight Potter 15 on the bay. Not the boats fault-- the habit of lifting up to release the main sheet was intuitive for me and I had rigged the Potter with a space-saving mod I found on the 'net-- re-locating the mainsheet block to the transom. Releasing the mainsheet then required pulling DOWN. Convenient, yes. Smart? Well, after about thirty years of sailing many boats with the motion "up" to release the main we got hit with a combination of wind, tide, and waves that was laying us on our side as I could not get the main to release! Force of habit caused me to pull up harder on the main sheet block as we were starting to take on water. Before we had a capsize I got it figured out and the Potter came back up, but it was a close call. This mod I did nearly sunk us due to learned response of years of sailing pulling UP. Small things can make big consequences-- these sorts of things are more critical than boat size. Burt Lowry Surry, Maine Monty 12 and son's Bristol 24 e Potter to pull down to release the main sheet, as it was a modification others had done due to limited space. Well, we got into a spot where wave and wind were heeling us past the comfort zone and I could not get the sheet released as I kept On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 11:15 AM Alex Conley <conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Pete, sounds like for you it’s a question of perceived safety, rather than amount of living space that makes you consider a larger boat. So let’s look at it from how the differences between the two would play out in the San Juan’s. I’ve yet to take my 15 to the San Juan’s, and haven’t sailed a 17, so all, jump on me where I get this wrong!
The 17 will have a smidge more speed under both sail n power, but both will still require planning to hit the tides right for the passages with the strongest current. Neither will power through a 6 knot ebb while you drink a cocktail.
The two boats will be the same re probably the greatest hazard to small boats in summer, ship/boat traffic in fog in the passages to/from the islands. A horn, radar reflector n radio fit on both.
The volume and greater ballast of a 17 may make her a more comfortable boat in a heavy sea (?) but the San Juans are mostly pretty protected waters without an ocean swell except for the sw of San Juan island. If you were dead set on crossing the Straights from Port Townsend, then you’ve got a real open water challenge- one both boats are probably up to, but a long trip in a small boat in an area where strong winds and swell can come up quickly and not a lot of easy refuges. Sounds like a nervous crossing in either boat. But there’s no reason to do that if you don’t want.
I’ve heard of folks taking their boats on the ferry and launching from a ramp on Friday Harbor, and sticking to the inner islands in order to avoid the crossing from Anacortes. The 15 would be easier n cheaper to put on the ferry... Likewise one can trailer to the Vancouver island shore and sail the Gulf Islands with no need for a crossing. Both options would keep you in pretty protected waters yet let you make some outer passages as weather and comfort allow.
I’m imagining the 15 as more prone to a knockdown in a sudden gust- but I’d ask others how often in summer they have faced that kind of squally condition in the San Juans. If you are comfortable sailing squirrelly Idaho Lakes in winter, I suspect you’d be fine in a San Juan summer. Lack of wind is the more common complaint, and space to carry gas might be the main limit on the 15....
Curious on others thoughts on differences in seaworthiness between the two boats n how that would play out in the San Juan’s. Looking forward to getting up there myself this summer!
Alex
On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 7:36 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Wow! All this food for thought. Great group of boaters. For me, I think small boat vs. big boat is a personal debate on safety on being on open water in a small boat. I love the open water of the islands, but would I be safer in a larger boat. Sometimes I feel guilty that I’m a burden on other members of the Southern Idaho Sailing Association when we come over each August to do our cruise. Just wondering. Thanks for listening,
Pete Chinook Breeze M15 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 8, 2019, at 20:25, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
True, that! And ironically the M15 V-berth is a little bit longer than the M17 (actual sleeping length).
That said, being a tall (but thin) guy, there's no room inside an M15 to do anything other than crawl into the V-berth!
The M17 has that ~3 ft. of (wider higher) cabin space aft of V-berth for cooking, lounging, etc. in less than clement weather.
It's quite a bit more space inside.
cheers, John
On 03/08/2019 07:11 PM, Kirby Stross wrote: m15 vs M17....M-15 bunks easier to crawl into than M-17 because of M-17 deck support stanchion inside cabin. Best Kirby S. M-17hull 395 On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 1:01 PM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com
You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 2. Re: M17 vs M15 (Bob Eeg) 3. Re: M17 vs M15 (Lawrence Winiarski) 4. Re: M17 vs M15 (John Schinnerer) 5. Re: M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 6. Re: M17 vs M15 (islandergirl80@yahoo.com) 7. Re: M17 vs M15 (Thomas Buzzi) 8. Re: M17 vs M15 (Douglas Kelch)
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 19:35:49 -0800 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: <62D24DB5-4B02-4588-B7AF-B96040609716@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since
I?m
doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
> On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > > Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard > > Skipper > On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller > I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. > If you what more details sand me an email > > Captain Dos Colitas > Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15 > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry > Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard > > Hi James, > > Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the > molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. > I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever. > > --Burt in Maine > >> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com
wrote:
>> >> My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 >> M17(Not >> Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, >> but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's >> not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the >> cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . >> Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the >> top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, >> floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was >> able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to >> have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind
>> since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop >> all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail >> with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the >> amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely >> hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and >> lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it >> from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. >> If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for >> the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge >> works. Jim in Denton Texas >>
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 04:08:11 +0000 From: Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: <
MWHPR1701MB19366B7493719DA1D92BF472B74D0@MWHPR1701MB1936.namprd17.prod.outlook.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Pete
Get one built after 1995. Bring a magnet with you to make sure Lead ballast.
Bob....
[image1.jpeg]
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 7, 2019, at 7:36 PM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com <mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Skipper On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. If you what more details sand me an email
Captain Dos Colitas Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Hi James,
Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever.
--Burt in Maine
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com <mailto: jamesehymes@gmail.com>> wrote:
My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 M17(Not Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge works. Jim in Denton Texas
On 03/09/2019 08:14 AM, Alex Conley wrote: ...
If you were dead set on crossing the Straights from Port Townsend, then you’ve got a real open water challenge- one both boats are probably up to, but a long trip in a small boat in an area where strong winds and swell can come up quickly and not a lot of easy refuges. Sounds like a nervous crossing in either boat. But there’s no reason to do that if you don’t want.
A shorter option in terms of exposure to the strait is from Port Angeles towards Victoria. Still crossing the strait but about 25% shorter distance. About 15 miles straight line to the closest lee shore (assuming winds from west that is). A minimum of 20 from PT to for example tuck behind Lopez.
I’ve heard of folks taking their boats on the ferry and launching from a ramp on Friday Harbor, and sticking to the inner islands in order to avoid the crossing from Anacortes.
The crossing from Anacortes to e.g. east side of Cypress is pretty short and mellow IME, aside from ferries charging through. Day sailors and kayakers do it quite frequently, including relatively beginner guided kayak trips. I would consider it less hassle/more fun than dealing with a ferry to Friday Harbor with a trailer in tow... :-) cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I'd be interested in scary-sea-stories about bad weather and passages Maybe it might help someone who has to face it someday too. I did deal with about 30 mph winds at night about 9pm and one thing I noticed is that with the sails down, my wimpy 30 lb trolling motor on the M15 could NOT keep the bow pointed into the wind very well and even while I was moving slowly, and if it got off center, or the wind changed, the wind would blow me 180 degrees about and there was virtually nothing i could do about it except gain speed going down wind to get maneuverability with the rudder enough to get head on to the wind again. If you had large waves to deal with, this could be a pretty big problem, and you wouldn't want to take the sails down, for fear of getting broadsided with lack of maneuverability, but at the same time you don't really want the extra sail area. The incident, prompted me to add a 2nd reef. Haven't had to try it yet, but it's there for next time. I ended up just anchoring and waiting till 2am when the wind went down some and I could maneuver into the marina I also experimented with a big drift sock while coming to the slip as a way of slowing myself down as the approach was dead downwind, That worked pretty well and you could use it to steer a little while manuevering between all the other docked expensive sailboats at the marina while coming very carefully downwind with my wimply trolling motor. I ended up with a slow speed 1mph controlled crash into my slip..It was a Clunk and could have woke the neighbors on a still night,but I think with all the wind noise I got away with it. So I think the drift sock was a useful tool.
I have a stout 4 hp outboard I use in the islands; however when I’m on local reservoirs I use an electric trolling motor because there is less drag. One day the wind came ripping over the dam and I couldn’t get to the dock. Normally I launch and come back to the dock under sail. Not this day. Under power of the electric motor the wind whipped me past the dock and there wasn’t enough power to buck the waves. I started washing up on some rocks when a motorboater rescued me with a tow. Lesson: better timing heading back to the dock with the small motor. Pete M15. 377 Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 9, 2019, at 20:17, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'd be interested in scary-sea-stories about bad weather and passages
Maybe it might help someone who has to face it someday too.
I did deal with about 30 mph winds at night about 9pm and one thing I noticed is that with the sails down, my wimpy 30 lb trolling motor on the M15 could NOT keep the bow pointed into the wind very well and even while I was moving slowly, and if it got off center, or the wind changed, the wind would blow me 180 degrees about and there was virtually nothing i could do about it except gain speed going down wind to get maneuverability with the rudder enough to get head on to the wind again.
If you had large waves to deal with, this could be a pretty big problem, and you wouldn't want to take the sails down, for fear of getting broadsided with lack of maneuverability, but at the same time you don't really want the extra sail area.
The incident, prompted me to add a 2nd reef. Haven't had to try it yet, but it's there for next time. I ended up just anchoring and waiting till 2am when the wind went down some and I could maneuver into the marina
I also experimented with a big drift sock while coming to the slip as a way of slowing myself down as the approach was dead downwind, That worked pretty well and you could use it to steer a little while manuevering between all the other docked expensive sailboats at the marina while coming very carefully downwind with my wimply trolling motor. I ended up with a slow speed 1mph controlled crash into my slip..It was a Clunk and could have woke the neighbors on a still night,but I think with all the wind noise I got away with it.
So I think the drift sock was a useful tool.
Hi Pete, The more and the further you sail the greater the experience you gain. That is a great basis for the Captain's decision whether to stay at the dock or to go... The old saying is: "It's better to be at the dock wishing you were out sailing, than to be out sailing and wishing you were at the dock". NOAA weather is _/*usually*/_ very reliable, .....*BUT*, I've been caught out several times in NewEngland waters, in 20 years sailing the area with a suddenly appearing Nor'easter while NOAA is still saying it's a nice sailing day. 98% of the time they are right in their forecast, but you also have to be very aware that NOAA isn't 100% reliable. Large area forecasts are reliable; but local areas might just have their own unique small weather systems. As a New England sailor you learn this the hard way - like being caught in a Nor'easter on Martha's Vineyard for three days -at Oak Bluffs harbor. You're the Captain, remember, it's your decision. An M15 or M17 can only do 4 / 5 knots sailing or under power. If you have strong tidal currents of 4 knots in the area you want to cross, you can only go with the flow. How many nautical miles is it to your destination? Do you have enough time to make the passage so that you have the tidal flow with you for the whole trip? How big is your safety factor for reaching your destination with the tide flow duration? If not, and the tide is going to change,then what is your alternate destination? Can you reach that safely in the time available, assuming that you also might experience deteriorating weather? Do you have a forecast of favorable winds for the whole trip? If you have any doubts about reaching your destination safely then John's suggestion of using the ferry to get the M15 to your SJ sailing area might be the most prudent thing to do. Let the ferry get you safely to your desired cruising area, and then enjoy sailing in the SJ sheltered waters. Ciao, Connie On 3/10/2019 9:32 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote:
I have a stout 4 hp outboard I use in the islands; however when I’m on local reservoirs I use an electric trolling motor because there is less drag. One day the wind came ripping over the dam and I couldn’t get to the dock. Normally I launch and come back to the dock under sail. Not this day. Under power of the electric motor the wind whipped me past the dock and there wasn’t enough power to buck the waves. I started washing up on some rocks when a motorboater rescued me with a tow. Lesson: better timing heading back to the dock with the small motor. Pete M15. 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 9, 2019, at 20:17, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'd be interested in scary-sea-stories about bad weather and passages
Maybe it might help someone who has to face it someday too.
I did deal with about 30 mph winds at night about 9pm and one thing I noticed is that with the sails down, my wimpy 30 lb trolling motor on the M15 could NOT keep the bow pointed into the wind very well and even while I was moving slowly, and if it got off center, or the wind changed, the wind would blow me 180 degrees about and there was virtually nothing i could do about it except gain speed going down wind to get maneuverability with the rudder enough to get head on to the wind again.
If you had large waves to deal with, this could be a pretty big problem, and you wouldn't want to take the sails down, for fear of getting broadsided with lack of maneuverability, but at the same time you don't really want the extra sail area.
The incident, prompted me to add a 2nd reef. Haven't had to try it yet, but it's there for next time. I ended up just anchoring and waiting till 2am when the wind went down some and I could maneuver into the marina
I also experimented with a big drift sock while coming to the slip as a way of slowing myself down as the approach was dead downwind, That worked pretty well and you could use it to steer a little while manuevering between all the other docked expensive sailboats at the marina while coming very carefully downwind with my wimply trolling motor. I ended up with a slow speed 1mph controlled crash into my slip..It was a Clunk and could have woke the neighbors on a still night,but I think with all the wind noise I got away with it.
So I think the drift sock was a useful tool.
My M-15 # 335 was nearly knocked down in a storm on Lake Pend O'Reille in North Idaho, but I let the sheets go (unlceated) and the boat popped back up. Lake Pend O'Reille in North Idaho is big enough and deep enough to support a U.S. Navy submarine research facility, which adds a further element to sailing there. Steve M-15 # 335 -----Original Message----- From: Conbert Benneck Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 9:49 AM To: Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whats the worst weather you went through an M15, M17? Crossing short passages? Hi Pete, The more and the further you sail the greater the experience you gain. That is a great basis for the Captain's decision whether to stay at the dock or to go... The old saying is: "It's better to be at the dock wishing you were out sailing, than to be out sailing and wishing you were at the dock". NOAA weather is _/*usually*/_ very reliable, .....*BUT*, I've been caught out several times in NewEngland waters, in 20 years sailing the area with a suddenly appearing Nor'easter while NOAA is still saying it's a nice sailing day. 98% of the time they are right in their forecast, but you also have to be very aware that NOAA isn't 100% reliable. Large area forecasts are reliable; but local areas might just have their own unique small weather systems. As a New England sailor you learn this the hard way - like being caught in a Nor'easter on Martha's Vineyard for three days -at Oak Bluffs harbor. You're the Captain, remember, it's your decision. An M15 or M17 can only do 4 / 5 knots sailing or under power. If you have strong tidal currents of 4 knots in the area you want to cross, you can only go with the flow. How many nautical miles is it to your destination? Do you have enough time to make the passage so that you have the tidal flow with you for the whole trip? How big is your safety factor for reaching your destination with the tide flow duration? If not, and the tide is going to change,then what is your alternate destination? Can you reach that safely in the time available, assuming that you also might experience deteriorating weather? Do you have a forecast of favorable winds for the whole trip? If you have any doubts about reaching your destination safely then John's suggestion of using the ferry to get the M15 to your SJ sailing area might be the most prudent thing to do. Let the ferry get you safely to your desired cruising area, and then enjoy sailing in the SJ sheltered waters. Ciao, Connie On 3/10/2019 9:32 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote:
I have a stout 4 hp outboard I use in the islands; however when I’m on local reservoirs I use an electric trolling motor because there is less drag. One day the wind came ripping over the dam and I couldn’t get to the dock. Normally I launch and come back to the dock under sail. Not this day. Under power of the electric motor the wind whipped me past the dock and there wasn’t enough power to buck the waves. I started washing up on some rocks when a motorboater rescued me with a tow. Lesson: better timing heading back to the dock with the small motor. Pete M15. 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 9, 2019, at 20:17, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'd be interested in scary-sea-stories about bad weather and passages
Maybe it might help someone who has to face it someday too.
I did deal with about 30 mph winds at night about 9pm and one thing I noticed is that with the sails down, my wimpy 30 lb trolling motor on the M15 could NOT keep the bow pointed into the wind very well and even while I was moving slowly, and if it got off center, or the wind changed, the wind would blow me 180 degrees about and there was virtually nothing i could do about it except gain speed going down wind to get maneuverability with the rudder enough to get head on to the wind again.
If you had large waves to deal with, this could be a pretty big problem, and you wouldn't want to take the sails down, for fear of getting broadsided with lack of maneuverability, but at the same time you don't really want the extra sail area.
The incident, prompted me to add a 2nd reef. Haven't had to try it yet, but it's there for next time. I ended up just anchoring and waiting till 2am when the wind went down some and I could maneuver into the marina
I also experimented with a big drift sock while coming to the slip as a way of slowing myself down as the approach was dead downwind, That worked pretty well and you could use it to steer a little while manuevering between all the other docked expensive sailboats at the marina while coming very carefully downwind with my wimply trolling motor. I ended up with a slow speed 1mph controlled crash into my slip..It was a Clunk and could have woke the neighbors on a still night,but I think with all the wind noise I got away with it.
So I think the drift sock was a useful tool.
Steve, Was on Lake Travis outside of Austin, Tx. Caught out in a cold front. Wind was about 30 knots steady. I was down to double reefed main and did not have a jib up since my smallest was a 109%.Monty 17's need a jib to drive up wind and I was being blown down the lake away from the boat ramp. I was able to reach across the lake like blazes but could not tack with the sails I had. Fortunately I had an "iron jenny" which got us back to the ramp. Conditions were not my "cup of tea". Boat never took on a drop of water. It takes care of its crew. Fair winds, Tom B On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 12:47 PM Steve Trapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
My M-15 # 335 was nearly knocked down in a storm on Lake Pend O'Reille in North Idaho, but I let the sheets go (unlceated) and the boat popped back up. Lake Pend O'Reille in North Idaho is big enough and deep enough to support a U.S. Navy submarine research facility, which adds a further element to sailing there. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: Conbert Benneck Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 9:49 AM To: Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whats the worst weather you went through an M15, M17? Crossing short passages?
Hi Pete,
The more and the further you sail the greater the experience you gain.
That is a great basis for the Captain's decision whether to stay at the dock or to go...
The old saying is: "It's better to be at the dock wishing you were out sailing, than to be out sailing and wishing you were at the dock".
NOAA weather is _/*usually*/_ very reliable, .....*BUT*, I've been caught out several times in NewEngland waters, in 20 years sailing the area with a suddenly appearing Nor'easter while NOAA is still saying it's a nice sailing day. 98% of the time they are right in their forecast, but you also have to be very aware that NOAA isn't 100% reliable. Large area forecasts are reliable; but local areas might just have their own unique small weather systems. As a New England sailor you learn this the hard way - like being caught in a Nor'easter on Martha's Vineyard for three days -at Oak Bluffs harbor.
You're the Captain, remember, it's your decision.
An M15 or M17 can only do 4 / 5 knots sailing or under power. If you have strong tidal currents of 4 knots in the area you want to cross, you can only go with the flow. How many nautical miles is it to your destination? Do you have enough time to make the passage so that you have the tidal flow with you for the whole trip? How big is your safety factor for reaching your destination with the tide flow duration? If not, and the tide is going to change,then what is your alternate destination? Can you reach that safely in the time available, assuming that you also might experience deteriorating weather? Do you have a forecast of favorable winds for the whole trip?
If you have any doubts about reaching your destination safely then John's suggestion of using the ferry to get the M15 to your SJ sailing area might be the most prudent thing to do. Let the ferry get you safely to your desired cruising area, and then enjoy sailing in the SJ sheltered waters.
Ciao,
Connie
On 3/10/2019 9:32 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote:
I have a stout 4 hp outboard I use in the islands; however when I’m on local reservoirs I use an electric trolling motor because there is less drag. One day the wind came ripping over the dam and I couldn’t get to the dock. Normally I launch and come back to the dock under sail. Not this day. Under power of the electric motor the wind whipped me past the dock and there wasn’t enough power to buck the waves. I started washing up on some rocks when a motorboater rescued me with a tow. Lesson: better timing heading back to the dock with the small motor. Pete M15. 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 9, 2019, at 20:17, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'd be interested in scary-sea-stories about bad weather and passages
Maybe it might help someone who has to face it someday too.
I did deal with about 30 mph winds at night about 9pm and one thing I noticed is that with the sails down, my wimpy 30 lb trolling motor on the M15 could NOT keep the bow pointed into the wind very well and even while I was moving slowly, and if it got off center, or the wind changed, the wind would blow me 180 degrees about and there was virtually nothing i could do about it except gain speed going down wind to get maneuverability with the rudder enough to get head on to the wind again.
If you had large waves to deal with, this could be a pretty big problem, and you wouldn't want to take the sails down, for fear of getting broadsided with lack of maneuverability, but at the same time you don't really want the extra sail area.
The incident, prompted me to add a 2nd reef. Haven't had to try it yet, but it's there for next time. I ended up just anchoring and waiting till 2am when the wind went down some and I could maneuver into the marina
I also experimented with a big drift sock while coming to the slip as a way of slowing myself down as the approach was dead downwind, That worked pretty well and you could use it to steer a little while manuevering between all the other docked expensive sailboats at the marina while coming very carefully downwind with my wimply trolling motor. I ended up with a slow speed 1mph controlled crash into my slip..It was a Clunk and could have woke the neighbors on a still night,but I think with all the wind noise I got away with it.
So I think the drift sock was a useful tool.
Steve I was anchored in Fleming cut, key west a month ago in my 17 when a squall came through and blew me into the deep water of the cut at 2 am... wind, downpour and 30-40 knot gusts (noaa forecast and report) on the nose and the tide taking me very rapidly toward the low bridge to Fleming key (17 ft clearance). I realized I’d been yanked up and was drifting— and fast— I don’t know how I realized it but thank god I was awake and got up to see... I had time retrieve the 20 lb Navy, which is a real soldier of an anchor, but had no time to clear it and no time to set again... the anchor was balled up in turtle grass and mud... I’d left the tohatsu 6 hp sail pro down and ready to go since the forecast was so vile. It started immediately ( praise to the dieties) and I was able to power away from danger ( dismasting and worse) quickly against the waves, wind and tide— my heart pounding—about 300 feet from being dragged under the bridge...lots of lessons learned that I won’t go into but suffice it to say that I’d never go cruising with anything but the strongest engine the boat can handle, and I believe that a six hp long shaft is it...maybe it’s overkill, but for serious cruising or any sailing for that matter, it seems to me that any available safety margin is irrefutable. Peter SV Bird Girl Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 10, 2019, at 3:44 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Steve, Was on Lake Travis outside of Austin, Tx. Caught out in a cold front. Wind was about 30 knots steady. I was down to double reefed main and did not have a jib up since my smallest was a 109%.Monty 17's need a jib to drive up wind and I was being blown down the lake away from the boat ramp. I was able to reach across the lake like blazes but could not tack with the sails I had. Fortunately I had an "iron jenny" which got us back to the ramp. Conditions were not my "cup of tea". Boat never took on a drop of water. It takes care of its crew. Fair winds, Tom B
On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 12:47 PM Steve Trapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
My M-15 # 335 was nearly knocked down in a storm on Lake Pend O'Reille in North Idaho, but I let the sheets go (unlceated) and the boat popped back up. Lake Pend O'Reille in North Idaho is big enough and deep enough to support a U.S. Navy submarine research facility, which adds a further element to sailing there. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: Conbert Benneck Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 9:49 AM To: Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whats the worst weather you went through an M15, M17? Crossing short passages?
Hi Pete,
The more and the further you sail the greater the experience you gain.
That is a great basis for the Captain's decision whether to stay at the dock or to go...
The old saying is: "It's better to be at the dock wishing you were out sailing, than to be out sailing and wishing you were at the dock".
NOAA weather is _/*usually*/_ very reliable, .....*BUT*, I've been caught out several times in NewEngland waters, in 20 years sailing the area with a suddenly appearing Nor'easter while NOAA is still saying it's a nice sailing day. 98% of the time they are right in their forecast, but you also have to be very aware that NOAA isn't 100% reliable. Large area forecasts are reliable; but local areas might just have their own unique small weather systems. As a New England sailor you learn this the hard way - like being caught in a Nor'easter on Martha's Vineyard for three days -at Oak Bluffs harbor.
You're the Captain, remember, it's your decision.
An M15 or M17 can only do 4 / 5 knots sailing or under power. If you have strong tidal currents of 4 knots in the area you want to cross, you can only go with the flow. How many nautical miles is it to your destination? Do you have enough time to make the passage so that you have the tidal flow with you for the whole trip? How big is your safety factor for reaching your destination with the tide flow duration? If not, and the tide is going to change,then what is your alternate destination? Can you reach that safely in the time available, assuming that you also might experience deteriorating weather? Do you have a forecast of favorable winds for the whole trip?
If you have any doubts about reaching your destination safely then John's suggestion of using the ferry to get the M15 to your SJ sailing area might be the most prudent thing to do. Let the ferry get you safely to your desired cruising area, and then enjoy sailing in the SJ sheltered waters.
Ciao,
Connie
On 3/10/2019 9:32 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote: I have a stout 4 hp outboard I use in the islands; however when I’m on local reservoirs I use an electric trolling motor because there is less drag. One day the wind came ripping over the dam and I couldn’t get to the dock. Normally I launch and come back to the dock under sail. Not this day. Under power of the electric motor the wind whipped me past the dock and there wasn’t enough power to buck the waves. I started washing up on some rocks when a motorboater rescued me with a tow. Lesson: better timing heading back to the dock with the small motor. Pete M15. 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 9, 2019, at 20:17, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'd be interested in scary-sea-stories about bad weather and passages
Maybe it might help someone who has to face it someday too.
I did deal with about 30 mph winds at night about 9pm and one thing I noticed is that with the sails down, my wimpy 30 lb trolling motor on the M15 could NOT keep the bow pointed into the wind very well and even while I was moving slowly, and if it got off center, or the wind changed, the wind would blow me 180 degrees about and there was virtually nothing i could do about it except gain speed going down wind to get maneuverability with the rudder enough to get head on to the wind again.
If you had large waves to deal with, this could be a pretty big problem, and you wouldn't want to take the sails down, for fear of getting broadsided with lack of maneuverability, but at the same time you don't really want the extra sail area.
The incident, prompted me to add a 2nd reef. Haven't had to try it yet, but it's there for next time. I ended up just anchoring and waiting till 2am when the wind went down some and I could maneuver into the marina
I also experimented with a big drift sock while coming to the slip as a way of slowing myself down as the approach was dead downwind, That worked pretty well and you could use it to steer a little while manuevering between all the other docked expensive sailboats at the marina while coming very carefully downwind with my wimply trolling motor. I ended up with a slow speed 1mph controlled crash into my slip..It was a Clunk and could have woke the neighbors on a still night,but I think with all the wind noise I got away with it.
So I think the drift sock was a useful tool.
I agree about having enough horsepower in the kicker motor for those occasional situations, which is why I have 4 hp on my M-15. Has come in handy a few times in the current of the Columbia River as well as the tides of Puget Sound. Steve M-15 # 335 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Kick via montgomery_boats Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 1:46 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whats the worst weather you went through an M15,M17? Crossing short passages? Steve I was anchored in Fleming cut, key west a month ago in my 17 when a squall came through and blew me into the deep water of the cut at 2 am... wind, downpour and 30-40 knot gusts (noaa forecast and report) on the nose and the tide taking me very rapidly toward the low bridge to Fleming key (17 ft clearance). I realized I’d been yanked up and was drifting— and fast— I don’t know how I realized it but thank god I was awake and got up to see... I had time retrieve the 20 lb Navy, which is a real soldier of an anchor, but had no time to clear it and no time to set again... the anchor was balled up in turtle grass and mud... I’d left the tohatsu 6 hp sail pro down and ready to go since the forecast was so vile. It started immediately ( praise to the dieties) and I was able to power away from danger ( dismasting and worse) quickly against the waves, wind and tide— my heart pounding—about 300 feet from being dragged under the bridge...lots of lessons learned that I won’t go into but suffice it to say that I’d never go cruising with anything but the strongest engine the boat can handle, and I believe that a six hp long shaft is it...maybe it’s overkill, but for serious cruising or any sailing for that matter, it seems to me that any available safety margin is irrefutable. Peter SV Bird Girl Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 10, 2019, at 3:44 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Steve, Was on Lake Travis outside of Austin, Tx. Caught out in a cold front. Wind was about 30 knots steady. I was down to double reefed main and did not have a jib up since my smallest was a 109%.Monty 17's need a jib to drive up wind and I was being blown down the lake away from the boat ramp. I was able to reach across the lake like blazes but could not tack with the sails I had. Fortunately I had an "iron jenny" which got us back to the ramp. Conditions were not my "cup of tea". Boat never took on a drop of water. It takes care of its crew. Fair winds, Tom B
On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 12:47 PM Steve Trapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
My M-15 # 335 was nearly knocked down in a storm on Lake Pend O'Reille in North Idaho, but I let the sheets go (unlceated) and the boat popped back up. Lake Pend O'Reille in North Idaho is big enough and deep enough to support a U.S. Navy submarine research facility, which adds a further element to sailing there. Steve M-15 # 335
-----Original Message----- From: Conbert Benneck Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2019 9:49 AM To: Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whats the worst weather you went through an M15, M17? Crossing short passages?
Hi Pete,
The more and the further you sail the greater the experience you gain.
That is a great basis for the Captain's decision whether to stay at the dock or to go...
The old saying is: "It's better to be at the dock wishing you were out sailing, than to be out sailing and wishing you were at the dock".
NOAA weather is _/*usually*/_ very reliable, .....*BUT*, I've been caught out several times in NewEngland waters, in 20 years sailing the area with a suddenly appearing Nor'easter while NOAA is still saying it's a nice sailing day. 98% of the time they are right in their forecast, but you also have to be very aware that NOAA isn't 100% reliable. Large area forecasts are reliable; but local areas might just have their own unique small weather systems. As a New England sailor you learn this the hard way - like being caught in a Nor'easter on Martha's Vineyard for three days -at Oak Bluffs harbor.
You're the Captain, remember, it's your decision.
An M15 or M17 can only do 4 / 5 knots sailing or under power. If you have strong tidal currents of 4 knots in the area you want to cross, you can only go with the flow. How many nautical miles is it to your destination? Do you have enough time to make the passage so that you have the tidal flow with you for the whole trip? How big is your safety factor for reaching your destination with the tide flow duration? If not, and the tide is going to change,then what is your alternate destination? Can you reach that safely in the time available, assuming that you also might experience deteriorating weather? Do you have a forecast of favorable winds for the whole trip?
If you have any doubts about reaching your destination safely then John's suggestion of using the ferry to get the M15 to your SJ sailing area might be the most prudent thing to do. Let the ferry get you safely to your desired cruising area, and then enjoy sailing in the SJ sheltered waters.
Ciao,
Connie
On 3/10/2019 9:32 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote: I have a stout 4 hp outboard I use in the islands; however when I’m on local reservoirs I use an electric trolling motor because there is less drag. One day the wind came ripping over the dam and I couldn’t get to the dock. Normally I launch and come back to the dock under sail. Not this day. Under power of the electric motor the wind whipped me past the dock and there wasn’t enough power to buck the waves. I started washing up on some rocks when a motorboater rescued me with a tow. Lesson: better timing heading back to the dock with the small motor. Pete M15. 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 9, 2019, at 20:17, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'd be interested in scary-sea-stories about bad weather and passages
Maybe it might help someone who has to face it someday too.
I did deal with about 30 mph winds at night about 9pm and one thing I noticed is that with the sails down, my wimpy 30 lb trolling motor on the M15 could NOT keep the bow pointed into the wind very well and even while I was moving slowly, and if it got off center, or the wind changed, the wind would blow me 180 degrees about and there was virtually nothing i could do about it except gain speed going down wind to get maneuverability with the rudder enough to get head on to the wind again.
If you had large waves to deal with, this could be a pretty big problem, and you wouldn't want to take the sails down, for fear of getting broadsided with lack of maneuverability, but at the same time you don't really want the extra sail area.
The incident, prompted me to add a 2nd reef. Haven't had to try it yet, but it's there for next time. I ended up just anchoring and waiting till 2am when the wind went down some and I could maneuver into the marina
I also experimented with a big drift sock while coming to the slip as a way of slowing myself down as the approach was dead downwind, That worked pretty well and you could use it to steer a little while manuevering between all the other docked expensive sailboats at the marina while coming very carefully downwind with my wimply trolling motor. I ended up with a slow speed 1mph controlled crash into my slip..It was a Clunk and could have woke the neighbors on a still night,but I think with all the wind noise I got away with it.
So I think the drift sock was a useful tool.
On 03/10/2019 12:44 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Steve, Was on Lake Travis outside of Austin, Tx. Caught out in a cold front. Wind was about 30 knots steady. I was down to double reefed main and did not have a jib up since my smallest was a 109%.Monty 17's need a jib to drive up wind and I was being blown down the lake away from the boat ramp. I was able to reach across the lake like blazes but could not tack with the sails I had.
Always interesting to me to hear this, it comes around every so often. Not my experience in my own M17. I have a few times sailed upwind adequately on main alone in strong gusty winds. She is slower, and won't point quite as high, but I have tacked a couple miles back upwind, taking maybe 20-25% longer timewise but by no means unable to make headway. This is lake sailing with wind waves/chop and a pretty long fetch, but not ocean conditions. Don't know what else might account for differences. Of course she goes much better with jib but is by no means helpless without it. cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Hi Pete, You are asking a sailor's perennial question; "is bigger better? safer? for what I want to do,and where I want to sail? Another foot of length, or even 6 " of length really does nothing for you. The main advantage of "bigger" is more interior volume for storing food, water and equipment; and room for a larger number of people that can go on the trip. We owned a 29' Tripp-Lentsch for 26 years. I had been working in Europe for United Aircraft Corp. so had the opportunity to sail in the Baltic, sail our 29'er down the English Channel; crossed the Adriatic to Yugoslavia several times; sail in the Med on friend's boats (Elba; Corsica; Italian coast). New top management at United fired all of us at the International Marketing Division in '74. Now what? Our children were 15 and 16 years old, and good sailors. I had obtained my German Captain's License, and was a celestial navigator. The Company was going to pay me 6 months salary. The time of the year (June) was excellent for our thinking - truck our boat to Italy, sail from Italy to the Greek islands (with American two week vacations that was an impossibility while I was working - but now it was possible. Get out of the Med by mid to late October and head for the Canary Islands; wait there till the winter trade winds set in and then sail across to Barbados on a broad reach..... It would have been a great trip. However, my friends at the German aircraft engine company in Munich offered me a job, but wanted me on the job in Connecticut ASAP. There went our Atlantic crossing.... Years later on a business trip to Munich I picked up a German yachting magazine and during dinner read an ad for the big brother of our T-L29, a Northeast 38. (another Bill Tripp design) We bought it, fully equipped. Picked it up the following spring in Hamburg, and then sailed the Danish islands for 5 weeks to see what sort of problems I had bought, and get them fixed. The following spring, our plan was to pick up the newly Algripped, and repaired boat, sail to the Greek island and then back to the USA. Back in Connecticut, sailing our T-L29 the rest of the season we examined our navels, and came to the conclusion; bigger really isn't better. - With just my wife and myself on board all the interior volume is much more than we need. - We aren't getting younger and the crew is out of the house - On a bigger boat, everything is bigger heavier, and more expensive than on a small boat. - Yes, hard on the wind in a seaway the 38' footer is a more comfortable ride, but if I have to reef, the 18 foot long solid spruce boom is too heavy for my Admirable to pick if I lower the main and the boom misses the boom crutch. We finally decided to keep the T-L29 - we could sail that by ourselves for many more years than we could the Northeast 38; dock space / storage space cost a lot less. Finally we downsized to the M15 and discovered a whole new sailing world; a world of peace and quiet; low to "0" cost: you only pay for dock space for the days you need it, not for the whole season. Winter storage is next to the garage and costs nothing. As far as seaworthiness is concerned, an M15 was sailed from San Diego to Hawaii by a single-hander many years ago. The point I'm making is that where you can sail and how far you can go is solely determined by *_your_*_*knowledge and sailing experience*_, and is not a function of boat size to sail the SJ. Remember Captain Bligh sailed across the Pacific with crew members in an open lifeboat from the BOUNTY. The boat size only limits the amount of food, water and crew you can carry. Connie ex T-L28 ex Northeast 38 ex Bolger MICRO ex M-15 #400 LEPPO On 3/9/2019 9:35 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote:
Wow! All this food for thought. Great group of boaters. For me, I think small boat vs. big boat is a personal debate on safety on being on open water in a small boat. I love the open water of the islands, but would I be safer in a larger boat. Sometimes I feel guilty that I’m a burden on other members of the Southern Idaho Sailing Association when we come over each August to do our cruise. Just wondering. Thanks for listening,
Pete Chinook Breeze M15 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 8, 2019, at 20:25, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
True, that! And ironically the M15 V-berth is a little bit longer than the M17 (actual sleeping length).
That said, being a tall (but thin) guy, there's no room inside an M15 to do anything other than crawl into the V-berth!
The M17 has that ~3 ft. of (wider higher) cabin space aft of V-berth for cooking, lounging, etc. in less than clement weather.
It's quite a bit more space inside.
cheers, John
On 03/08/2019 07:11 PM, Kirby Stross wrote: m15 vs M17....M-15 bunks easier to crawl into than M-17 because of M-17 deck support stanchion inside cabin. Best Kirby S. M-17hull 395 On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 1:01 PM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 2. Re: M17 vs M15 (Bob Eeg) 3. Re: M17 vs M15 (Lawrence Winiarski) 4. Re: M17 vs M15 (John Schinnerer) 5. Re: M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 6. Re: M17 vs M15 (islandergirl80@yahoo.com) 7. Re: M17 vs M15 (Thomas Buzzi) 8. Re: M17 vs M15 (Douglas Kelch)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 19:35:49 -0800 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: <62D24DB5-4B02-4588-B7AF-B96040609716@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Skipper On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. If you what more details sand me an email
Captain Dos Colitas Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Hi James,
Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever. --Burt in Maine
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com> wrote: > My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 > M17(Not > Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, > but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's > not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the > cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . > Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the > top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, > floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was > able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to > have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - > since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop > all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail > with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the > amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely > hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and > lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it > from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. > If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for > the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge > works. Jim in Denton Texas >
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 04:08:11 +0000 From: Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: < MWHPR1701MB19366B7493719DA1D92BF472B74D0@MWHPR1701MB1936.namprd17.prod.outlook.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Pete
Get one built after 1995. Bring a magnet with you to make sure Lead ballast.
Bob....
[image1.jpeg]
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 7, 2019, at 7:36 PM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Skipper On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. If you what more details sand me an email
Captain Dos Colitas Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Hi James,
Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever.
--Burt in Maine
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com<mailto: jamesehymes@gmail.com>> wrote:
My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 M17(Not Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge works. Jim in Denton Texas
Thanks for sharing all your experiences. I’ve sailed from Anacortes to circumnavigate the SJs and into Canada with my M15 and the group with no problems. The ferry idea is a good one. To avoid the big crossing to Victoria from Port Townsend. Lots of options, again thanks Pete M15 377 Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 9, 2019, at 09:33, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Pete,
You are asking a sailor's perennial question; "is bigger better? safer? for what I want to do,and where I want to sail?
Another foot of length, or even 6 " of length really does nothing for you.
The main advantage of "bigger" is more interior volume for storing food, water and equipment; and room for a larger number of people that can go on the trip.
We owned a 29' Tripp-Lentsch for 26 years. I had been working in Europe for United Aircraft Corp. so had the opportunity to sail in the Baltic, sail our 29'er down the English Channel; crossed the Adriatic to Yugoslavia several times; sail in the Med on friend's boats (Elba; Corsica; Italian coast).
New top management at United fired all of us at the International Marketing Division in '74. Now what?
Our children were 15 and 16 years old, and good sailors. I had obtained my German Captain's License, and was a celestial navigator.
The Company was going to pay me 6 months salary. The time of the year (June) was excellent for our thinking - truck our boat to Italy, sail from Italy to the Greek islands (with American two week vacations that was an impossibility while I was working - but now it was possible. Get out of the Med by mid to late October and head for the Canary Islands; wait there till the winter trade winds set in and then sail across to Barbados on a broad reach..... It would have been a great trip.
However, my friends at the German aircraft engine company in Munich offered me a job, but wanted me on the job in Connecticut ASAP. There went our Atlantic crossing....
Years later on a business trip to Munich I picked up a German yachting magazine and during dinner read an ad for the big brother of our T-L29, a Northeast 38. (another Bill Tripp design)
We bought it, fully equipped. Picked it up the following spring in Hamburg, and then sailed the Danish islands for 5 weeks to see what sort of problems I had bought, and get them fixed.
The following spring, our plan was to pick up the newly Algripped, and repaired boat, sail to the Greek island and then back to the USA.
Back in Connecticut, sailing our T-L29 the rest of the season we examined our navels, and came to the conclusion; bigger really isn't better.
- With just my wife and myself on board all the interior volume is much more than we need.
- We aren't getting younger and the crew is out of the house
- On a bigger boat, everything is bigger heavier, and more expensive than on a small boat.
- Yes, hard on the wind in a seaway the 38' footer is a more comfortable ride, but if I have to reef, the 18 foot long solid spruce boom is too heavy for my Admirable to pick if I lower the main and the boom misses the boom crutch.
We finally decided to keep the T-L29 - we could sail that by ourselves for many more years than we could the Northeast 38; dock space / storage space cost a lot less.
Finally we downsized to the M15 and discovered a whole new sailing world; a world of peace and quiet; low to "0" cost: you only pay for dock space for the days you need it, not for the whole season. Winter storage is next to the garage and costs nothing.
As far as seaworthiness is concerned, an M15 was sailed from San Diego to Hawaii by a single-hander many years ago.
The point I'm making is that where you can sail and how far you can go is solely determined by *_your_*_*knowledge and sailing experience*_, and is not a function of boat size to sail the SJ.
Remember Captain Bligh sailed across the Pacific with crew members in an open lifeboat from the BOUNTY. The boat size only limits the amount of food, water and crew you can carry.
Connie
ex T-L28
ex Northeast 38
ex Bolger MICRO
ex M-15 #400 LEPPO
On 3/9/2019 9:35 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote: Wow! All this food for thought. Great group of boaters. For me, I think small boat vs. big boat is a personal debate on safety on being on open water in a small boat. I love the open water of the islands, but would I be safer in a larger boat. Sometimes I feel guilty that I’m a burden on other members of the Southern Idaho Sailing Association when we come over each August to do our cruise. Just wondering. Thanks for listening,
Pete Chinook Breeze M15 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 8, 2019, at 20:25, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
True, that! And ironically the M15 V-berth is a little bit longer than the M17 (actual sleeping length).
That said, being a tall (but thin) guy, there's no room inside an M15 to do anything other than crawl into the V-berth!
The M17 has that ~3 ft. of (wider higher) cabin space aft of V-berth for cooking, lounging, etc. in less than clement weather.
It's quite a bit more space inside.
cheers, John
On 03/08/2019 07:11 PM, Kirby Stross wrote: m15 vs M17....M-15 bunks easier to crawl into than M-17 because of M-17 deck support stanchion inside cabin. Best Kirby S. M-17hull 395 On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 1:01 PM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com
You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 2. Re: M17 vs M15 (Bob Eeg) 3. Re: M17 vs M15 (Lawrence Winiarski) 4. Re: M17 vs M15 (John Schinnerer) 5. Re: M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 6. Re: M17 vs M15 (islandergirl80@yahoo.com) 7. Re: M17 vs M15 (Thomas Buzzi) 8. Re: M17 vs M15 (Douglas Kelch)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 19:35:49 -0800 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: <62D24DB5-4B02-4588-B7AF-B96040609716@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
> On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard > > Skipper > On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller > I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. > If you what more details sand me an email > > Captain Dos Colitas > Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15 > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry > Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard > > Hi James, > > Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the > molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. > I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever. > --Burt in Maine > >> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com> wrote: >> My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 >> M17(Not >> Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, >> but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's >> not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the >> cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . >> Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the >> top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, >> floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was >> able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to >> have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - >> since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop >> all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail >> with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the >> amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely >> hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and >> lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it >> from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. >> If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for >> the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge >> works. Jim in Denton Texas >>
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 04:08:11 +0000 From: Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: < MWHPR1701MB19366B7493719DA1D92BF472B74D0@MWHPR1701MB1936.namprd17.prod.outlook.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Pete
Get one built after 1995. Bring a magnet with you to make sure Lead ballast.
Bob....
[image1.jpeg]
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 7, 2019, at 7:36 PM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Skipper On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. If you what more details sand me an email
Captain Dos Colitas Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Hi James,
Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever.
--Burt in Maine
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com<mailto: jamesehymes@gmail.com>> wrote:
My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 M17(Not Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge works. Jim in Denton Texas
Pete, A few other random thoughts: The main thing that you have to do is to make certain that in the event of a knock-down, no water can get into your M15 This means, sail locker lids need closed cell foam gasketing between the locker lid, and the sealing surface. The next thing that is a "must-have" is some form of locking mechanism to keep the sail locker lids closed, so that in the event of a knock-down sail locker lids can't fly open, ejecting boat equipment, and allowing water inside the boat. If water can't get inside, a boat keeps floating even if it is up-side-down. The most water that can get inside is from the vent slots in the top companionway board. I used small lock hasps, and fitted them so that when they were closed I had to exert force to pull them open, and lift the sail locker lid. Just remember that the pint bottle the gallon jug, or the 55 gallon drum will all float indefinitely as long as the cap is on the container; no matter what the sea state. For pleasant living on board, go to the M files and look for Charlie Matthews "Tool Box galley". Everything you need for cooking and living on board in a 19" tool box. I needed a holder for 7 X 50 binoculars / Grundig radio / marine radio /and beverage. I bought the largest binocular holder from WEST, and then modified it to hold everything in the space of the lowest companionway hatch board. To cook you need a galley working area. I took the Porta-Pottie cover; mounted two cleats on the bottom so that it fitted between the cockpit seats at the aft end of the cockpit. With the cleats I couldn't move sideways. That's fine for good weather but there are times when you need a "tent" over your open air galley. A rain soaked steak with a butter-water sauce is not very appetizing. You need rain protection. I made a BIMINI that covered the whole cockpit area and extended over the companionway hatch so that it could be kept open in the rain. If your M15 has a port sail locker with the shallow tray you have to gain access to that whole volume of storage space that is below. I cut a saw kerf all around the flat area that the sail locker lid rests on; removed the shallow tray; epoxied supports; added rope handles to the flat tray had supports. Now I had the best of both worlds. The shallow tray for car keys / boat lock keys / screwdriver / pliers / small lines; and by lifting it out, I now had access to the whole volume for storing the BIMINI top / cockpit cushions / PDFs / emergency paddle, and the boom with rolled up mainsail when trailering. You also need a minimum of two anchors with l o n g anchor rodes. Safety is being able to anchor in 20 feet of water depth and have enough rode for a 10:1 rode length / water depth ratio. You have to have at least two anchors. If one is caught under a rock and you can get it loose, .... now what? If the weather deteriorates and you are anchored in a cove, two anchors out let you sleep much better. From my big boat experience, I always carried three; even on our M15. Different bottoms require different anchor types to hold properly. If you haven't got a dinghy, that is also a necessity, unless you can walk on water. I built and enjoyed using a Bolger NYMPH. Tows easily behind the M15, and is light enough for easy car topping on a roof rack. Is big enough for two people and a lot of supplies; food / fuel / beer, and is great fun to row when there is no wind. Happy sailing, Connie On 3/9/2019 11:47 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote:
Thanks for sharing all your experiences. I’ve sailed from Anacortes to circumnavigate the SJs and into Canada with my M15 and the group with no problems. The ferry idea is a good one. To avoid the big crossing to Victoria from Port Townsend. Lots of options, again thanks Pete M15 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 9, 2019, at 09:33, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Pete,
You are asking a sailor's perennial question; "is bigger better? safer? for what I want to do,and where I want to sail?
Another foot of length, or even 6 " of length really does nothing for you.
The main advantage of "bigger" is more interior volume for storing food, water and equipment; and room for a larger number of people that can go on the trip.
We owned a 29' Tripp-Lentsch for 26 years. I had been working in Europe for United Aircraft Corp. so had the opportunity to sail in the Baltic, sail our 29'er down the English Channel; crossed the Adriatic to Yugoslavia several times; sail in the Med on friend's boats (Elba; Corsica; Italian coast).
New top management at United fired all of us at the International Marketing Division in '74. Now what?
Our children were 15 and 16 years old, and good sailors. I had obtained my German Captain's License, and was a celestial navigator.
The Company was going to pay me 6 months salary. The time of the year (June) was excellent for our thinking - truck our boat to Italy, sail from Italy to the Greek islands (with American two week vacations that was an impossibility while I was working - but now it was possible. Get out of the Med by mid to late October and head for the Canary Islands; wait there till the winter trade winds set in and then sail across to Barbados on a broad reach..... It would have been a great trip.
However, my friends at the German aircraft engine company in Munich offered me a job, but wanted me on the job in Connecticut ASAP. There went our Atlantic crossing....
Years later on a business trip to Munich I picked up a German yachting magazine and during dinner read an ad for the big brother of our T-L29, a Northeast 38. (another Bill Tripp design)
We bought it, fully equipped. Picked it up the following spring in Hamburg, and then sailed the Danish islands for 5 weeks to see what sort of problems I had bought, and get them fixed.
The following spring, our plan was to pick up the newly Algripped, and repaired boat, sail to the Greek island and then back to the USA.
Back in Connecticut, sailing our T-L29 the rest of the season we examined our navels, and came to the conclusion; bigger really isn't better.
- With just my wife and myself on board all the interior volume is much more than we need.
- We aren't getting younger and the crew is out of the house
- On a bigger boat, everything is bigger heavier, and more expensive than on a small boat.
- Yes, hard on the wind in a seaway the 38' footer is a more comfortable ride, but if I have to reef, the 18 foot long solid spruce boom is too heavy for my Admirable to pick if I lower the main and the boom misses the boom crutch.
We finally decided to keep the T-L29 - we could sail that by ourselves for many more years than we could the Northeast 38; dock space / storage space cost a lot less.
Finally we downsized to the M15 and discovered a whole new sailing world; a world of peace and quiet; low to "0" cost: you only pay for dock space for the days you need it, not for the whole season. Winter storage is next to the garage and costs nothing.
As far as seaworthiness is concerned, an M15 was sailed from San Diego to Hawaii by a single-hander many years ago.
The point I'm making is that where you can sail and how far you can go is solely determined by *_your_*_*knowledge and sailing experience*_, and is not a function of boat size to sail the SJ.
Remember Captain Bligh sailed across the Pacific with crew members in an open lifeboat from the BOUNTY. The boat size only limits the amount of food, water and crew you can carry.
Connie
ex T-L28
ex Northeast 38
ex Bolger MICRO
ex M-15 #400 LEPPO
On 3/9/2019 9:35 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote: Wow! All this food for thought. Great group of boaters. For me, I think small boat vs. big boat is a personal debate on safety on being on open water in a small boat. I love the open water of the islands, but would I be safer in a larger boat. Sometimes I feel guilty that I’m a burden on other members of the Southern Idaho Sailing Association when we come over each August to do our cruise. Just wondering. Thanks for listening,
Pete Chinook Breeze M15 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 8, 2019, at 20:25, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
True, that! And ironically the M15 V-berth is a little bit longer than the M17 (actual sleeping length).
That said, being a tall (but thin) guy, there's no room inside an M15 to do anything other than crawl into the V-berth!
The M17 has that ~3 ft. of (wider higher) cabin space aft of V-berth for cooking, lounging, etc. in less than clement weather.
It's quite a bit more space inside.
cheers, John
On 03/08/2019 07:11 PM, Kirby Stross wrote: m15 vs M17....M-15 bunks easier to crawl into than M-17 because of M-17 deck support stanchion inside cabin. Best Kirby S. M-17hull 395 On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 1:01 PM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 2. Re: M17 vs M15 (Bob Eeg) 3. Re: M17 vs M15 (Lawrence Winiarski) 4. Re: M17 vs M15 (John Schinnerer) 5. Re: M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 6. Re: M17 vs M15 (islandergirl80@yahoo.com) 7. Re: M17 vs M15 (Thomas Buzzi) 8. Re: M17 vs M15 (Douglas Kelch)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 19:35:49 -0800 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: <62D24DB5-4B02-4588-B7AF-B96040609716@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote: > > Capt David > > I did it about 10 yrs ago > I will look for pic > Capt Jim > > > > >> On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: >> Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15 >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> >> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard >> >> Skipper >> On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller >> I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. >> If you what more details sand me an email >> >> Captain Dos Colitas >> Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry >> Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM >> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard >> >> Hi James, >> >> Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the >> molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. >> I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever. >> --Burt in Maine >> >>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com> wrote: >>> My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 >>> M17(Not >>> Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, >>> but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's >>> not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the >>> cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . >>> Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the >>> top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, >>> floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was >>> able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to >>> have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - >>> since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop >>> all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail >>> with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the >>> amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely >>> hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and >>> lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it >>> from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. >>> If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for >>> the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge >>> works. Jim in Denton Texas >>>
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 04:08:11 +0000 From: Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: < MWHPR1701MB19366B7493719DA1D92BF472B74D0@MWHPR1701MB1936.namprd17.prod.outlook.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Pete
Get one built after 1995. Bring a magnet with you to make sure Lead ballast.
Bob....
[image1.jpeg]
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 7, 2019, at 7:36 PM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Skipper On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. If you what more details sand me an email
Captain Dos Colitas Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Hi James,
Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever.
--Burt in Maine
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com<mailto: jamesehymes@gmail.com>> wrote:
My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 M17(Not Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge works. Jim in Denton Texas
Wow, thanks. Totally awesome tips; I’ll start some modifications now Pete Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 9, 2019, at 14:18, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Pete,
A few other random thoughts:
The main thing that you have to do is to make certain that in the event of a knock-down, no water can get into your M15
This means, sail locker lids need closed cell foam gasketing between the locker lid, and the sealing surface.
The next thing that is a "must-have" is some form of locking mechanism to keep the sail locker lids closed, so that in the event of a knock-down sail locker lids can't fly open, ejecting boat equipment, and allowing water inside the boat. If water can't get inside, a boat keeps floating even if it is up-side-down.
The most water that can get inside is from the vent slots in the top companionway board.
I used small lock hasps, and fitted them so that when they were closed I had to exert force to pull them open, and lift the sail locker lid.
Just remember that the pint bottle the gallon jug, or the 55 gallon drum will all float indefinitely as long as the cap is on the container; no matter what the sea state.
For pleasant living on board, go to the M files and look for Charlie Matthews "Tool Box galley". Everything you need for cooking and living on board in a 19" tool box.
I needed a holder for 7 X 50 binoculars / Grundig radio / marine radio /and beverage. I bought the largest binocular holder from WEST, and then modified it to hold everything in the space of the lowest companionway hatch board.
To cook you need a galley working area. I took the Porta-Pottie cover; mounted two cleats on the bottom so that it fitted between the cockpit seats at the aft end of the cockpit. With the cleats I couldn't move sideways.
That's fine for good weather but there are times when you need a "tent" over your open air galley. A rain soaked steak with a butter-water sauce is not very appetizing. You need rain protection.
I made a BIMINI that covered the whole cockpit area and extended over the companionway hatch so that it could be kept open in the rain.
If your M15 has a port sail locker with the shallow tray you have to gain access to that whole volume of storage space that is below.
I cut a saw kerf all around the flat area that the sail locker lid rests on; removed the shallow tray; epoxied supports; added rope handles to the flat tray had supports. Now I had the best of both worlds. The shallow tray for car keys / boat lock keys / screwdriver / pliers / small lines; and by lifting it out, I now had access to the whole volume for storing the BIMINI top / cockpit cushions / PDFs / emergency paddle, and the boom with rolled up mainsail when trailering.
You also need a minimum of two anchors with l o n g anchor rodes. Safety is being able to anchor in 20 feet of water depth and have enough rode for a 10:1 rode length / water depth ratio. You have to have at least two anchors. If one is caught under a rock and you can get it loose, .... now what? If the weather deteriorates and you are anchored in a cove, two anchors out let you sleep much better.
From my big boat experience, I always carried three; even on our M15. Different bottoms require different anchor types to hold properly.
If you haven't got a dinghy, that is also a necessity, unless you can walk on water.
I built and enjoyed using a Bolger NYMPH. Tows easily behind the M15, and is light enough for easy car topping on a roof rack. Is big enough for two people and a lot of supplies; food / fuel / beer, and is great fun to row when there is no wind.
Happy sailing,
Connie
On 3/9/2019 11:47 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote:
Thanks for sharing all your experiences. I’ve sailed from Anacortes to circumnavigate the SJs and into Canada with my M15 and the group with no problems. The ferry idea is a good one. To avoid the big crossing to Victoria from Port Townsend. Lots of options, again thanks Pete M15 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 9, 2019, at 09:33, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Pete,
You are asking a sailor's perennial question; "is bigger better? safer? for what I want to do,and where I want to sail?
Another foot of length, or even 6 " of length really does nothing for you.
The main advantage of "bigger" is more interior volume for storing food, water and equipment; and room for a larger number of people that can go on the trip.
We owned a 29' Tripp-Lentsch for 26 years. I had been working in Europe for United Aircraft Corp. so had the opportunity to sail in the Baltic, sail our 29'er down the English Channel; crossed the Adriatic to Yugoslavia several times; sail in the Med on friend's boats (Elba; Corsica; Italian coast).
New top management at United fired all of us at the International Marketing Division in '74. Now what?
Our children were 15 and 16 years old, and good sailors. I had obtained my German Captain's License, and was a celestial navigator.
The Company was going to pay me 6 months salary. The time of the year (June) was excellent for our thinking - truck our boat to Italy, sail from Italy to the Greek islands (with American two week vacations that was an impossibility while I was working - but now it was possible. Get out of the Med by mid to late October and head for the Canary Islands; wait there till the winter trade winds set in and then sail across to Barbados on a broad reach..... It would have been a great trip.
However, my friends at the German aircraft engine company in Munich offered me a job, but wanted me on the job in Connecticut ASAP. There went our Atlantic crossing....
Years later on a business trip to Munich I picked up a German yachting magazine and during dinner read an ad for the big brother of our T-L29, a Northeast 38. (another Bill Tripp design)
We bought it, fully equipped. Picked it up the following spring in Hamburg, and then sailed the Danish islands for 5 weeks to see what sort of problems I had bought, and get them fixed.
The following spring, our plan was to pick up the newly Algripped, and repaired boat, sail to the Greek island and then back to the USA.
Back in Connecticut, sailing our T-L29 the rest of the season we examined our navels, and came to the conclusion; bigger really isn't better.
- With just my wife and myself on board all the interior volume is much more than we need.
- We aren't getting younger and the crew is out of the house
- On a bigger boat, everything is bigger heavier, and more expensive than on a small boat.
- Yes, hard on the wind in a seaway the 38' footer is a more comfortable ride, but if I have to reef, the 18 foot long solid spruce boom is too heavy for my Admirable to pick if I lower the main and the boom misses the boom crutch.
We finally decided to keep the T-L29 - we could sail that by ourselves for many more years than we could the Northeast 38; dock space / storage space cost a lot less.
Finally we downsized to the M15 and discovered a whole new sailing world; a world of peace and quiet; low to "0" cost: you only pay for dock space for the days you need it, not for the whole season. Winter storage is next to the garage and costs nothing.
As far as seaworthiness is concerned, an M15 was sailed from San Diego to Hawaii by a single-hander many years ago.
The point I'm making is that where you can sail and how far you can go is solely determined by *_your_*_*knowledge and sailing experience*_, and is not a function of boat size to sail the SJ.
Remember Captain Bligh sailed across the Pacific with crew members in an open lifeboat from the BOUNTY. The boat size only limits the amount of food, water and crew you can carry.
Connie
ex T-L28
ex Northeast 38
ex Bolger MICRO
ex M-15 #400 LEPPO
On 3/9/2019 9:35 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote: Wow! All this food for thought. Great group of boaters. For me, I think small boat vs. big boat is a personal debate on safety on being on open water in a small boat. I love the open water of the islands, but would I be safer in a larger boat. Sometimes I feel guilty that I’m a burden on other members of the Southern Idaho Sailing Association when we come over each August to do our cruise. Just wondering. Thanks for listening,
Pete Chinook Breeze M15 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 8, 2019, at 20:25, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
True, that! And ironically the M15 V-berth is a little bit longer than the M17 (actual sleeping length).
That said, being a tall (but thin) guy, there's no room inside an M15 to do anything other than crawl into the V-berth!
The M17 has that ~3 ft. of (wider higher) cabin space aft of V-berth for cooking, lounging, etc. in less than clement weather.
It's quite a bit more space inside.
cheers, John
On 03/08/2019 07:11 PM, Kirby Stross wrote: m15 vs M17....M-15 bunks easier to crawl into than M-17 because of M-17 deck support stanchion inside cabin. Best Kirby S. M-17hull 395 On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 1:01 PM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) > 2. Re: M17 vs M15 (Bob Eeg) > 3. Re: M17 vs M15 (Lawrence Winiarski) > 4. Re: M17 vs M15 (John Schinnerer) > 5. Re: M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) > 6. Re: M17 vs M15 (islandergirl80@yahoo.com) > 7. Re: M17 vs M15 (Thomas Buzzi) > 8. Re: M17 vs M15 (Douglas Kelch) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 19:35:49 -0800 > From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 > Message-ID: <62D24DB5-4B02-4588-B7AF-B96040609716@mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi all: > I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m > doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. > Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island > hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 > Pete > Chinook Breeze; 377 > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote: >> >> Capt David >> >> I did it about 10 yrs ago >> I will look for pic >> Capt Jim >> >> >> >> >>> On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: >>> Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> >>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> >>> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am >>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard >>> >>> Skipper >>> On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and > expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller >>> I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel > ballast with lead. >>> If you what more details sand me an email >>> >>> Captain Dos Colitas >>> Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> > On Behalf Of Burton Lowry >>> Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM >>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> >>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard >>> >>> Hi James, >>> >>> Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust > that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to > do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay > to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. > If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca > cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the >>> molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a > lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that > way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. >>> I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to > last forever. >>> --Burt in Maine >>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com> > wrote: >>>> My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 >>>> M17(Not >>>> Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, >>>> but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's >>>> not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the >>>> cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . >>>> Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the >>>> top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, >>>> floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was >>>> able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to >>>> have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - >>>> since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop >>>> all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail >>>> with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the >>>> amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely >>>> hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and >>>> lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it >>>> from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig > out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to > avoid. >>>> If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap > for >>>> the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge >>>> works. Jim in Denton Texas >>>> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 04:08:11 +0000 > From: Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> > To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery > Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 > Message-ID: > < > MWHPR1701MB19366B7493719DA1D92BF472B74D0@MWHPR1701MB1936.namprd17.prod.outlook.com > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Pete > > Get one built after 1995. Bring a magnet with you to make sure Lead > ballast. > > Bob.... > > > [image1.jpeg] > > Sent from my iPad > > On Mar 7, 2019, at 7:36 PM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote: > > Hi all: > I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m > doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. > Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island > hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 > Pete > Chinook Breeze; 377 > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: > jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> wrote: > > Capt David > > I did it about 10 yrs ago > I will look for pic > Capt Jim > > > > > On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote: > > Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: > jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> > Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard > > Skipper > On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and > expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller > I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel > ballast with lead. > If you what more details sand me an email > > Captain Dos Colitas > Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15 > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com > <mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>> On Behalf Of > Burton Lowry > Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard > > Hi James, > > Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust > that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to > do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay > to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. > If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca > cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the > molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a > lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that > way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. > I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to > last forever. > > --Burt in Maine > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com<mailto: > jamesehymes@gmail.com>> wrote: > > My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 > M17(Not > Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, > but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's > not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the > cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . > Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the > top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, > floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was > able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to > have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - > since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop > all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail > with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the > amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely > hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and > lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it > from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out > the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to > avoid. > If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for > the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge > works. Jim in Denton Texas > > > > >
To a lot of people, an M17 is also a "small" boat. They'd say, what are you doing out in these 'open' waters in that little thing? For us here the two feet is a bigger deal than for the general boating public I think...just food for thought. I like the extra space and size of my M17 but having been on a couple M15, albeit briefly, I wouldn't think of them as "too small" to be cruising in the San Juans and Canadian gulf island/inside passage. Just a bit too small for me personally in terms of cabin, cockpit, and stowage space. I'm a 'compact boat' person though - I wouldn't argue with big boat opportunities, but I'm unlikely to ever own anything much bigger myself. cheers, John On 03/09/2019 07:35 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote:
Wow! All this food for thought. Great group of boaters. For me, I think small boat vs. big boat is a personal debate on safety on being on open water in a small boat. I love the open water of the islands, but would I be safer in a larger boat. Sometimes I feel guilty that I’m a burden on other members of the Southern Idaho Sailing Association when we come over each August to do our cruise. Just wondering. Thanks for listening,
Pete Chinook Breeze M15 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 8, 2019, at 20:25, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
True, that! And ironically the M15 V-berth is a little bit longer than the M17 (actual sleeping length).
That said, being a tall (but thin) guy, there's no room inside an M15 to do anything other than crawl into the V-berth!
The M17 has that ~3 ft. of (wider higher) cabin space aft of V-berth for cooking, lounging, etc. in less than clement weather.
It's quite a bit more space inside.
cheers, John
On 03/08/2019 07:11 PM, Kirby Stross wrote: m15 vs M17....M-15 bunks easier to crawl into than M-17 because of M-17 deck support stanchion inside cabin. Best Kirby S. M-17hull 395 On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 1:01 PM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 2. Re: M17 vs M15 (Bob Eeg) 3. Re: M17 vs M15 (Lawrence Winiarski) 4. Re: M17 vs M15 (John Schinnerer) 5. Re: M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 6. Re: M17 vs M15 (islandergirl80@yahoo.com) 7. Re: M17 vs M15 (Thomas Buzzi) 8. Re: M17 vs M15 (Douglas Kelch)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 19:35:49 -0800 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: <62D24DB5-4B02-4588-B7AF-B96040609716@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Skipper On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. If you what more details sand me an email
Captain Dos Colitas Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Hi James,
Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever.
--Burt in Maine
> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com> wrote: > > My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 > M17(Not > Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, > but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's > not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the > cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . > Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the > top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, > floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was > able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to > have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - > since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop > all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail > with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the > amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely > hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and > lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it > from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. > If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for > the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge > works. Jim in Denton Texas >
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 04:08:11 +0000 From: Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: < MWHPR1701MB19366B7493719DA1D92BF472B74D0@MWHPR1701MB1936.namprd17.prod.outlook.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Pete
Get one built after 1995. Bring a magnet with you to make sure Lead ballast.
Bob....
[image1.jpeg]
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 7, 2019, at 7:36 PM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Skipper On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. If you what more details sand me an email
Captain Dos Colitas Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Hi James,
Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever.
--Burt in Maine
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com<mailto: jamesehymes@gmail.com>> wrote:
My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 M17(Not Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge works. Jim in Denton Texas
participants (10)
-
Alex Conley -
Burton Lowry -
Conbert Benneck -
John Schinnerer -
Kirby Stross -
Lawrence Winiarski -
Peter Kick -
Peter Zimowsky -
Steve Trapp -
Thomas Buzzi