Hi Tom, I too have replaced the rotted, soaked balsa deck in my M17 from below. It was a nasty, difficult job. I used Core-mat instead of end grain balsa for the new material. The leaks are gone. It would be an easy job if you could turn the boat upside down... One big tip, wear your respirator. Mr. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Wall Street Daily Peter Schiff: China Just Armed its Financial Missile http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/570654ec31e2954eb3c07st01vuc
Did you cut out the bottom panel in one piece or in sections? If sections, how big? Did you use thickened epoxy or the straight stuff? How thick was the Coremat? Did you have to piece it in or were you able to use one or more large panels? Sorry for all the questions, but I want to get as much information as I can before I dig in. Henry On Thursday, April 7, 2016, bownez@juno.com <bownez@juno.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
I too have replaced the rotted, soaked balsa deck in my M17 from below. It was a nasty, difficult job. I used Core-mat instead of end grain balsa for the new material. The leaks are gone.
It would be an easy job if you could turn the boat upside down...
One big tip, wear your respirator.
Mr. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Wall Street Daily Peter Schiff: China Just Armed its Financial Missile http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/570654ec31e2954eb3c07st01vuc
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile on Windows 10 phone
Mr Bones, I did just that, flipped the boat upside down. I had a local boat yard put my M17 in travel lift slings and raised one side high enough to cause the boat to flip over in the slings and the lowered it back on to the trailer. I had pre-made two bunks out of 2x12 and carpet pieces to install across the trailer once I removed the original bunks. I used a impact air tool to make quick work of it while the boat was in the slings. Time = money particularly in a boat yard fur shure. I had to primarily re-core the cockpit sole so there was no way to do that realistically until I flipped the boat. I also added some bracing below the sole to the hull to better support it. Repeat performance to get her back upright. Worked great albeit a little scary as she flipped over...! Tim J On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
Did you cut out the bottom panel in one piece or in sections? If sections, how big? Did you use thickened epoxy or the straight stuff? How thick was the Coremat? Did you have to piece it in or were you able to use one or more large panels? Sorry for all the questions, but I want to get as much information as I can before I dig in.
Henry
On Thursday, April 7, 2016, bownez@juno.com <bownez@juno.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
I too have replaced the rotted, soaked balsa deck in my M17 from below. It was a nasty, difficult job. I used Core-mat instead of end grain balsa for the new material. The leaks are gone.
It would be an easy job if you could turn the boat upside down...
One big tip, wear your respirator.
Mr. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Wall Street Daily Peter Schiff: China Just Armed its Financial Missile http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/570654ec31e2954eb3c07st01vuc
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile on Windows 10 phone
Wow! On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Timothy JarviMD <tjarvi@esnm.us> wrote:
Mr Bones,
I did just that, flipped the boat upside down. I had a local boat yard put my M17 in travel lift slings and raised one side high enough to cause the boat to flip over in the slings and the lowered it back on to the trailer. I had pre-made two bunks out of 2x12 and carpet pieces to install across the trailer once I removed the original bunks. I used a impact air tool to make quick work of it while the boat was in the slings. Time = money particularly in a boat yard fur shure. I had to primarily re-core the cockpit sole so there was no way to do that realistically until I flipped the boat. I also added some bracing below the sole to the hull to better support it. Repeat performance to get her back upright. Worked great albeit a little scary as she flipped over...!
Tim J
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
Did you cut out the bottom panel in one piece or in sections? If sections, how big? Did you use thickened epoxy or the straight stuff? How thick was the Coremat? Did you have to piece it in or were you able to use one or more large panels? Sorry for all the questions, but I want to get as much information as I can before I dig in.
Henry
On Thursday, April 7, 2016, bownez@juno.com <bownez@juno.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
I too have replaced the rotted, soaked balsa deck in my M17 from below. It was a nasty, difficult job. I used Core-mat instead of end grain balsa for the new material. The leaks are gone.
It would be an easy job if you could turn the boat upside down...
One big tip, wear your respirator.
Mr. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Wall Street Daily Peter Schiff: China Just Armed its Financial Missile http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/570654ec31e2954eb3c07st01vuc
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile on Windows 10 phone
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
Excellent idea, Tim. I thought about that, I flipped a 17 foot motorboat once to do the hull but I was a younger man then. I just toughed this one out but your way is WAY better. Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Timothy JarviMD <tjarvi@esnm.us> wrote:
Mr Bones,
I did just that, flipped the boat upside down. I had a local boat yard put my M17 in travel lift slings and raised one side high enough to cause the boat to flip over in the slings and the lowered it back on to the trailer. I had pre-made two bunks out of 2x12 and carpet pieces to install across the trailer once I removed the original bunks. I used a impact air tool to make quick work of it while the boat was in the slings. Time = money particularly in a boat yard fur shure. I had to primarily re-core the cockpit sole so there was no way to do that realistically until I flipped the boat. I also added some bracing below the sole to the hull to better support it. Repeat performance to get her back upright. Worked great albeit a little scary as she flipped over...!
Tim J
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
Did you cut out the bottom panel in one piece or in sections? If sections, how big? Did you use thickened epoxy or the straight stuff? How thick was the Coremat? Did you have to piece it in or were you able to use one or more large panels? Sorry for all the questions, but I want to get as much information as I can before I dig in.
Henry
On Thursday, April 7, 2016, bownez@juno.com <bownez@juno.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
I too have replaced the rotted, soaked balsa deck in my M17 from below. It was a nasty, difficult job. I used Core-mat instead of end grain balsa for the new material. The leaks are gone.
It would be an easy job if you could turn the boat upside down...
One big tip, wear your respirator.
Mr. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Wall Street Daily Peter Schiff: China Just Armed its Financial Missile http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/570654ec31e2954eb3c07st01vuc
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile on Windows 10 phone
Thanks, Tom. It went surprisingly very smoothly and predictably. I don't think anyone watching had seen it done before. Drew a little crowd of boatmen. I got pictures somewhere. I was just watching youtube videos too late last night about boat trailering/launching/recovery mishaps. Glad I didn't see those first... Tim On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:26 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Excellent idea, Tim. I thought about that, I flipped a 17 foot motorboat once to do the hull but I was a younger man then. I just toughed this one out but your way is WAY better. Tom B
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On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Timothy JarviMD <tjarvi@esnm.us> wrote:
Mr Bones,
I did just that, flipped the boat upside down. I had a local boat yard put my M17 in travel lift slings and raised one side high enough to cause the boat to flip over in the slings and the lowered it back on to the trailer. I had pre-made two bunks out of 2x12 and carpet pieces to install across the trailer once I removed the original bunks. I used a impact air tool to make quick work of it while the boat was in the slings. Time = money particularly in a boat yard fur shure. I had to primarily re-core the cockpit sole so there was no way to do that realistically until I flipped the boat. I also added some bracing below the sole to the hull to better support it. Repeat performance to get her back upright. Worked great albeit a little scary as she flipped over...!
Tim J
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
Did you cut out the bottom panel in one piece or in sections? If sections, how big? Did you use thickened epoxy or the straight stuff? How thick was the Coremat? Did you have to piece it in or were you able to use one or more large panels? Sorry for all the questions, but I want to get as much information as I can before I dig in.
Henry
On Thursday, April 7, 2016, bownez@juno.com <bownez@juno.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
I too have replaced the rotted, soaked balsa deck in my M17 from below. It was a nasty, difficult job. I used Core-mat instead of end grain balsa for the new material. The leaks are gone.
It would be an easy job if you could turn the boat upside down...
One big tip, wear your respirator.
Mr. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Wall Street Daily Peter Schiff: China Just Armed its Financial Missile
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/570654ec31e2954eb3c07st01vuc
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile on Windows 10 phone
I'm currently building a 26 footer, and have a "boat flip feat" of that type in my not too distant future. In fact, a couple of them. While doable, this is not something to be taken lightly, and especially so for boats like ours that have so much ballast in them that can't be removed. But again, go slow, get it under control and it is doable. Tim's experience is proof of that. Just so you know there is more than one way to skin a cat, had that been my repair, I'd have done it a bit different, assuming we are talking about that area of core that resides beneath the cockpit sole? First, it helps to understand the role of the core. It more or less starts to function as an I-beam, to resist flexing. It is why you can stand on the cabin top and jump up and down on it and it won't flex. Even more so if it is curved a bit. Jerry or Bob may want to chime in, but that is my understanding of why it's there. For the strength it adds in relation to the extra weight, it can't be beat. So back to how else to do it? First, unless you pry the deck off, it's going to be a tight fit either way. The hard part would be getting the old core off and that has been covered (cut / grind around the perimeter and pry it off), then clean up the surface with a sander. Nasty, overhead work that. But how to get it back up? Enter the magic of epoxy. Glue on a perimeter of wood strips or perhaps strips of marine plywood. Once those are stuck in place, cut and fit all your core block pieces of whatever material onto a tray that fits where you want them to go, butter them up and push them up into place. Use simple drywall screws through the tray, into the wood or plywood strips and it will draw them up and into place. If you wanted to, you could probably lay up the glass skin for the bottom of the core on the tray before you put it into place. (Tray > plastic film to prevent sticking > glass layup > core material > thickened epoxy > screw into place) There are a lot of techniques plywood boat builders use that can port over to repairs on glass boats. Simple drywall screws are a great equalizer and a way to defeat gravity.....at least long enough for the epoxy to kick. On Apr 8, 2016, at 7:47 AM, Timothy JarviMD wrote:
Thanks, Tom. It went surprisingly very smoothly and predictably. I don't think anyone watching had seen it done before. Drew a little crowd of boatmen. I got pictures somewhere. I was just watching youtube videos too late last night about boat trailering/launching/recovery mishaps. Glad I didn't see those first...
Tim
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 8:26 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Excellent idea, Tim. I thought about that, I flipped a 17 foot motorboat once to do the hull but I was a younger man then. I just toughed this one out but your way is WAY better. Tom B
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On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 12:28 PM, Timothy JarviMD <tjarvi@esnm.us> wrote:
Mr Bones,
I did just that, flipped the boat upside down. I had a local boat yard put my M17 in travel lift slings and raised one side high enough to cause the boat to flip over in the slings and the lowered it back on to the trailer. I had pre-made two bunks out of 2x12 and carpet pieces to install across the trailer once I removed the original bunks. I used a impact air tool to make quick work of it while the boat was in the slings. Time = money particularly in a boat yard fur shure. I had to primarily re-core the cockpit sole so there was no way to do that realistically until I flipped the boat. I also added some bracing below the sole to the hull to better support it. Repeat performance to get her back upright. Worked great albeit a little scary as she flipped over...!
Tim J
On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 10:33 AM, Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
Did you cut out the bottom panel in one piece or in sections? If sections, how big? Did you use thickened epoxy or the straight stuff? How thick was the Coremat? Did you have to piece it in or were you able to use one or more large panels? Sorry for all the questions, but I want to get as much information as I can before I dig in.
Henry
On Thursday, April 7, 2016, bownez@juno.com <bownez@juno.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
I too have replaced the rotted, soaked balsa deck in my M17 from below. It was a nasty, difficult job. I used Core-mat instead of end grain balsa for the new material. The leaks are gone.
It would be an easy job if you could turn the boat upside down...
One big tip, wear your respirator.
Mr. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Wall Street Daily Peter Schiff: China Just Armed its Financial Missile
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/570654ec31e2954eb3c07st01vuc
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile on Windows 10 phone
Hi Henry, I used a product called divini-cell from Jamestown Dist. It may also be called Coremat. What I received was a 1/4 inch thick foam mat with a fiber backing to hold it together because it was crosscut on one inch centers. I bought about 16 square feet of it. I sounded the deck and found, fortunately a solid run of balsa down the centerline. Apparently the bow pulpit stantion plates leaked from the pulpit being yanked on over the years. I carefully drew the areas in magic marker on the underside of the deck and cut through the headliner and the balsa with an end cutting "Multi-tool". These power tools are excellent for this. They are quick, very controllable and cut a tiny saw curf so little material actually falls down on top of you. The fiberglass deck is a lot harder than balsa so you can tell immediately when you have sawn through the balsa. So cutting right up through the deck is highly unlikely. I then cleaned out the balsa. I had hoped to reuse the headliner but some of the balsa stuck to the pieces removed and required me to bend and tear the headliner getting out the pieces. I made sure I was back to solid balsa everywhere once I had opened up the liner. The resultant openings were squared off to make installation of the various layers easier to fit in place. None of the areas I replaced were larger than about 8x8 so it was possible to work the core material in after buttering it up as well as the underside of the deck so it would stay in place. I used slightly thickened epoxy to do this. I then also had cut the fiberglass patches to fill in the missing headliner. I lay there watching everything as the epoxy kicked so none of it fell down. None moved at all. Once the original fiberglass kicked I was able to sand the gelcoat off the rest of the headliner and fair in all the surfaces. This gave a rough, even surface to then cover completely with more fiberglass. I used 6 ounce for this which I cut into pieces approximately 8 inches square. I was then able to stick each one up there by first dabbing a couple of dollops of epoxy on the headliner surface. This allowed me to place the dry cloth in place. I thin sponge dabbed the cloth to total saturation before proceeding to the next. I overlapped all the sections and all the edges blended well. None of the pieces fell due to slightly thickened epoxy (maple syrup) suction. Lucky. Once hard, a quick sanding got rid of the edges of the cloth that had puffed up and protruded from the ceiling. I then primed and painted the ceiling. Drilled holes (yikes) for the pulpit and cleats and using best procedures bedded the hardware. I left the new bolts long to support the new thin plywood ceiling I installed next. That allowed a bit of air space below the foredeck to prevent condensation. I then added attachment points for bungee cords which I plan to use to store the screens I made for the fore hatch and the main companionway hatch. The aft edge of the new plywood ceiling which was held away from the deck a quarter inch posed a danger to my scalp should I have to go forward in rough conditions so I glued a section of 1/2 inch pipe insulation to it. Now it has a soft edge which can be painted. Good luck. Wear your respirator! <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 9:33 AM, Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
Did you cut out the bottom panel in one piece or in sections? If sections, how big? Did you use thickened epoxy or the straight stuff? How thick was the Coremat? Did you have to piece it in or were you able to use one or more large panels? Sorry for all the questions, but I want to get as much information as I can before I dig in.
Henry
On Thursday, April 7, 2016, bownez@juno.com <bownez@juno.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
I too have replaced the rotted, soaked balsa deck in my M17 from below. It was a nasty, difficult job. I used Core-mat instead of end grain balsa for the new material. The leaks are gone.
It would be an easy job if you could turn the boat upside down...
One big tip, wear your respirator.
Mr. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Wall Street Daily Peter Schiff: China Just Armed its Financial Missile http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/570654ec31e2954eb3c07st01vuc
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile on Windows 10 phone
Right on. Respirator, goggles, long sleeves, long pants, gloves. Toyed with the idea of wearing a full chemical suit but since I chose (?) to do it in early summer in South Texas (90degrees, 85% humidity) I backed off that idea. Used divini-cell from Jamestown Distributors. It all came out fine in the end. Have since installed a 3/16 inch plywood liner in the area with bungee cord attachment points. I must really like messing about in boats.🤔 Great sailing weather outside now! Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Thu, Apr 7, 2016 at 7:38 AM, bownez@juno.com <bownez@juno.com> wrote:
Hi Tom,
I too have replaced the rotted, soaked balsa deck in my M17 from below. It was a nasty, difficult job. I used Core-mat instead of end grain balsa for the new material. The leaks are gone.
It would be an easy job if you could turn the boat upside down...
One big tip, wear your respirator.
Mr. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Wall Street Daily Peter Schiff: China Just Armed its Financial Missile http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/570654ec31e2954eb3c07st01vuc
participants (5)
-
bownez＠juno.com -
Henry Rodriguez -
Howard Audsley -
Thomas Buzzi -
Timothy JarviMD