Hello fellow Montgomery boat owners, My name is Doug Vogel, and I am a new owner of an 1980 M-17. It is my first boat. I live in Jackson,Wyoming, and sail my boat on Jackson Lake, in Grand Teton National Park. A amazingly beautiful and tricky place to sail. Lots of challenging mountain (6770') weather to deal with. Like ice still on the lake till probably June this year. Most years, the marina opens on May 21st. What a winter.... I have a few questions. 1) I am trying to repair a few minor gouges in the hull. 1.5 " long and only 1/16 to 1/8" deep. I have a gelcoat repair kit with the color tubes. I sanded the gouges yesterday, and ended up very quickly exposing the green layer underneath my cream colored hull. I was not trying to sand just inside the gouges. So have I screwed up? Now i think I have to apply the gelcoat over both the gouge and the exposed green layer. And that will have to be like a 1/32 or less. Then sand the gelcoat repair very carefully to not get to any green. Is there a better way ? 2) My motor that came with the boat is an 9.7 horse regular shaft Mercury. Too big & too short. A previous owner installed an adjustable motor mount about foot below the notch in the transom. Soooo about $1500 can fix that issue. Maybe later in the summer. 3) I just spent a half hour reading older posts for the first time. I need to do more. I was considering going with slugs as there are some monster gusts on my lake. I will get some Sailcote next week. Do the slugs have to be installed by a sailmaker , or is it possible for an owner to install them ? Thanks all for being happy hardworking sailers , and sending back some advice. Doug
my POV on two of your questions doug - * the honda 2HP long shaft outboard is a great motor for the M15. anything larger is wasted horsepower and way to much weight. as you have a different motor mount you may be able to purchase a short-shaft motor and save a few bucks. * i like sail slugs for the main. it is a preference. reefing a boat with slugs or boltrope are equally fast. some feel bolt rope provides a better sail shape. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.com --- On Wed, 5/18/11, Doug Vogel <shadowmt@earthlink.net> wrote:
My name is Doug Vogel, and I am a new owner of an 1980 M-17. It is my first boat. I live in Jackson,Wyoming, and sail my boat on Jackson Lake, in Grand Teton National Park. A amazingly beautiful and tricky place to sail. Lots of challenging mountain (6770') weather to deal with. Like ice still on the lake till probably June this year. Most years, the marina opens on May 21st. What a winter....
I have a few questions.
1) I am trying to repair a few minor gouges in the hull. 1.5 " long and only 1/16 to 1/8" deep. I have a gelcoat repair kit with the color tubes. I sanded the gouges yesterday, and ended up very quickly exposing the green layer underneath my cream colored hull. I was not trying to sand just inside the gouges. So have I screwed up? Now i think I have to apply the gelcoat over both the gouge and the exposed green layer. And that will have to be like a 1/32 or less. Then sand the gelcoat repair very carefully to not get to any green.
Is there a better way ?
2) My motor that came with the boat is an 9.7 horse regular shaft Mercury. Too big & too short. A previous owner installed an adjustable motor mount about foot below the notch in the transom. Soooo about $1500 can fix that issue. Maybe later in the summer.
3) I just spent a half hour reading older posts for the first time. I need to do more. I was considering going with slugs as there are some monster gusts on my lake. I will get some Sailcote next week. Do the slugs have to be installed by a sailmaker , or is it possible for an owner to install them ?
Thanks all for being happy hardworking sailers , and sending back some advice.
Doug
WOW ... i really read your message too fast ... and made poor comment on the motor recommendation. i'm sorry for the miss-information Doug. you want a long shaft motor on the M17. a 4HP motor is a great fit for the M17. i have a Suzuki 4HP and the motor moves the boat just fine. the Yamaha 4HP is also very nice ... especially as the Yamaha has an external tank option (not easily available for the Suzuki). the Honda 5HP motor is also popular on the M17. you can use a 2HP outboard on the M17 IF you don't get into high winds/seas. a good fit for folks that only motor to and from the dock, and don't cruise long distances in high winds/seas. a 3 or 3.5 HP outboard is also good for the M17. i suggest you remove the outboard bracket, patch the holes, and install the motor directly on the transom as jerry and lyle designed. the boat will sail MUCH better with the motor in the designed location. the motor weight is closer to the boats centerline and center of effort ... resulting in more stable and faster sailing. if you choose to remove the motor mount confirm that the new motor's throttle arm will fit OK ... some motors will not fit into the cutout because their throttle arms make the motor to 'wide'. as your 17 had such a heavy outboard on an after-market bracket i recommend you check the transom for cracking along the cockpit to transom joint. an overweight outboard on a poorly installed bracket have been known to cause transom damage on the old-style M17s. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.com --- On Wed, 5/18/11, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
my POV on two of your questions doug -
* the honda 2HP long shaft outboard is a great motor for the M15. anything larger is wasted horsepower and way to much weight. as you have a different motor mount you may be able to purchase a short-shaft motor and save a few bucks.
* i like sail slugs for the main. it is a preference. reefing a boat with slugs or boltrope are equally fast. some feel bolt rope provides a better sail shape.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.com
--- On Wed, 5/18/11, Doug Vogel <shadowmt@earthlink.net> wrote:
My name is Doug Vogel, and I am a new owner of an 1980 M-17. It is my first boat. I live in Jackson,Wyoming, and sail my boat on Jackson Lake, in Grand Teton National Park. A amazingly beautiful and tricky place to sail. Lots of challenging mountain (6770') weather to deal with. Like ice still on the lake till probably June this year. Most years, the marina opens on May 21st. What a winter....
I have a few questions.
1) I am trying to repair a few minor gouges in the hull. 1.5 " long and only 1/16 to 1/8" deep. I have a gelcoat repair kit with the color tubes. I sanded the gouges yesterday, and ended up very quickly exposing the green layer underneath my cream colored hull. I was not trying to sand just inside the gouges. So have I screwed up? Now i think I have to apply the gelcoat over both the gouge and the exposed green layer. And that will have to be like a 1/32 or less. Then sand the gelcoat repair very carefully to not get to any green.
Is there a better way ?
2) My motor that came with the boat is an 9.7 horse regular shaft Mercury. Too big & too short. A previous owner installed an adjustable motor mount about foot below the notch in the transom. Soooo about $1500 can fix that issue. Maybe later in the summer.
3) I just spent a half hour reading older posts for the first time. I need to do more. I was considering going with slugs as there are some monster gusts on my lake. I will get some Sailcote next week. Do the slugs have to be installed by a sailmaker , or is it possible for an owner to install them ?
Thanks all for being happy hardworking sailers , and sending back some advice.
Doug
Wow . Dave you hit it on the head. I have a hair-line crack along the top of the starboard transom, 3/8 inch below the top edge. It is much smaller and on top on the port side of the notch. I decided to fix it later since it is accessible and way above the water line. I wonder if gelcote / and or Marine-tex will be enough ? Does it need resin & cloth ? I will definitely be getting one of those 4H long shafts later this summer. Thanks for the advice, Doug On May 18, 2011, at 5:48 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
doug: below is a link that outlines similar transom repair done by gary 'scooter' oberbeck - http://www.msogphotosite.com/lbgftransom.html from what you describe you do not have damage as severe as gary's. i talked with jerry and you may choose to grind out, as gary did, the areas where the crack has appeared and fill the area with thickened epoxy. jerry says marine-tex will work well - the dark color version is better (stronger) than the light colored. fill the ground out crack with the epoxy and then sand smooth. paint the transom to your aesthetic preference. this process i describe skips the 'biaxial cloth tape' gary o. describes. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.com --- On Fri, 5/20/11, Doug Vogel <shadowmt@earthlink.net> wrote:
Wow . Dave you hit it on the head. I have a hair-line crack along the top of the starboard transom, 3/8 inch below the top edge. It is much smaller and on top on the port side of the notch. I decided to fix it later since it is accessible and way above the water line. I wonder if gelcote / and or Marine-tex will be enough ? Does it need resin & cloth ?
I will definitely be getting one of those 4H long shafts later this summer.
Thanks for the advice,
Doug
Doug: Welcome. I.ve had my 1977 M-17 for 15 months, and just returned from the Florida 120. Without a doubt the 9.7 HP Merc is too big, and heavy. Sell it. Most folks are running a 4 HP long shaft on this boat. It's more power than needed, and very thrifty on fuel consumption. After 4 days sailing in Florida, I cannot measure how much fuel I used. I only motored into and out of harbors, but cannot have used two cups. If I had to replace my 4 HP Suzuki, I'd seriously consider the 2 HP Honda, at only 28 lb. Regarding sail slugs, they do make it nice to drop the sail and flake it onto the boom. If your main only has a bolt rope, there's nothing to attach the slugs with. Some sails have little grommets for slugs that can be attached easily with little screws. It's not an expensive job to add the slugs at a sailmaker. If your hull gouges don't get into the glass laminate, and are above the waterline, I'd fill with white Marine-Tex, then wet sand with 320 grit, and maybe 400 afterwards. Won't be a perfect match, but pretty good. I am just learning my boat. Me and my crew tacked in strong, shifting winds through a narrow channel under the Pensacola Beach Bridge, against a strong current. We had to stay one on each side of the cockpit to make the tacks quickly enouigh. So there was no sitting out to balance the boat. Several times the gusts heeled us to over 30°. I can say the M-17 will certainly take care of itself in strong shifty winds. It sails better "on its feet" of course, but other than discomfort and angst of your crew, this is a boat that SAILS! I've sailed lots of boats for over 40 years, and none performed better than my old M-17. And I thought I had a short season! Mark House Durango, CO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Vogel" <shadowmt@earthlink.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 12:16 PM Subject: M_Boats: minor hull repairs
Hello fellow Montgomery boat owners,
My name is Doug Vogel, and I am a new owner of an 1980 M-17. It is my first boat. I live in Jackson,Wyoming, and sail my boat on Jackson Lake, in Grand Teton National Park. A amazingly beautiful and tricky place to sail. Lots of challenging mountain (6770') weather to deal with. Like ice still on the lake till probably June this year. Most years, the marina opens on May 21st. What a winter....
I have a few questions.
1) I am trying to repair a few minor gouges in the hull. 1.5 " long and only 1/16 to 1/8" deep. I have a gelcoat repair kit with the color tubes. I sanded the gouges yesterday, and ended up very quickly exposing the green layer underneath my cream colored hull. I was not trying to sand just inside the gouges. So have I screwed up? Now i think I have to apply the gelcoat over both the gouge and the exposed green layer. And that will have to be like a 1/32 or less. Then sand the gelcoat repair very carefully to not get to any green.
Is there a better way ?
2) My motor that came with the boat is an 9.7 horse regular shaft Mercury. Too big & too short. A previous owner installed an adjustable motor mount about foot below the notch in the transom. Soooo about $1500 can fix that issue. Maybe later in the summer.
3) I just spent a half hour reading older posts for the first time. I need to do more. I was considering going with slugs as there are some monster gusts on my lake. I will get some Sailcote next week. Do the slugs have to be installed by a sailmaker , or is it possible for an owner to install them ?
Thanks all for being happy hardworking sailers , and sending back some advice.
Doug _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
Hi Doug, I will mention an option I am considering for a couple small thumb size repairs on my boat. Petit has a paint that looks like a good match for my gel coat (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1329&fam...) so I am going to fill and fair the repair areas then touch up with the paint. I have not had complete success matching the color on gel coat but I did find that going with a standard color for the large areas of gel coat I sprayed on my former M-17 worked very well. So I figure this paint may give me a good enough result and it is not horribly expensive (in sailboat terms!). And if I do not like it I can always grab some sandpaper and remove it! Just an option to consider. Robbin On 5/18/2011 2:16 PM, Doug Vogel wrote:
Hello fellow Montgomery boat owners,
My name is Doug Vogel, and I am a new owner of an 1980 M-17. It is my first boat. I live in Jackson,Wyoming, and sail my boat on Jackson Lake, in Grand Teton National Park. A amazingly beautiful and tricky place to sail. Lots of challenging mountain (6770') weather to deal with. Like ice still on the lake till probably June this year. Most years, the marina opens on May 21st. What a winter....
I have a few questions.
1) I am trying to repair a few minor gouges in the hull. 1.5 " long and only 1/16 to 1/8" deep. I have a gelcoat repair kit with the color tubes. I sanded the gouges yesterday, and ended up very quickly exposing the green layer underneath my cream colored hull. I was not trying to sand just inside the gouges. So have I screwed up? Now i think I have to apply the gelcoat over both the gouge and the exposed green layer. And that will have to be like a 1/32 or less. Then sand the gelcoat repair very carefully to not get to any green.
Is there a better way ?
2) My motor that came with the boat is an 9.7 horse regular shaft Mercury. Too big& too short. A previous owner installed an adjustable motor mount about foot below the notch in the transom. Soooo about $1500 can fix that issue. Maybe later in the summer.
3) I just spent a half hour reading older posts for the first time. I need to do more. I was considering going with slugs as there are some monster gusts on my lake. I will get some Sailcote next week. Do the slugs have to be installed by a sailmaker , or is it possible for an owner to install them ?
Thanks all for being happy hardworking sailers , and sending back some advice.
Doug _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
Doug: I used a gelcoate repair kit from the Seattle area on an Arima fishing boat some years ago, and cannot remember the source. Their product matched ANY color of any production boat for many years. It did indeed match perfectly, except where my old hull was bleached by years of sun exposure. Unfortunately I cannot find them on the web anymore. I did find this one, which seems like a reasinable source. http://gelcoatrepairkit.com/ Good luck! Mark House ----- Original Message ----- From: "robbin roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 6:08 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: minor hull repairs
Hi Doug, I will mention an option I am considering for a couple small thumb size repairs on my boat. Petit has a paint that looks like a good match for my gel coat (http://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1329&fam...) so I am going to fill and fair the repair areas then touch up with the paint. I have not had complete success matching the color on gel coat but I did find that going with a standard color for the large areas of gel coat I sprayed on my former M-17 worked very well. So I figure this paint may give me a good enough result and it is not horribly expensive (in sailboat terms!). And if I do not like it I can always grab some sandpaper and remove it! Just an option to consider.
Robbin
On 5/18/2011 2:16 PM, Doug Vogel wrote:
Hello fellow Montgomery boat owners,
My name is Doug Vogel, and I am a new owner of an 1980 M-17. It is my first boat. I live in Jackson,Wyoming, and sail my boat on Jackson Lake, in Grand Teton National Park. A amazingly beautiful and tricky place to sail. Lots of challenging mountain (6770') weather to deal with. Like ice still on the lake till probably June this year. Most years, the marina opens on May 21st. What a winter....
I have a few questions.
1) I am trying to repair a few minor gouges in the hull. 1.5 " long and only 1/16 to 1/8" deep. I have a gelcoat repair kit with the color tubes. I sanded the gouges yesterday, and ended up very quickly exposing the green layer underneath my cream colored hull. I was not trying to sand just inside the gouges. So have I screwed up? Now i think I have to apply the gelcoat over both the gouge and the exposed green layer. And that will have to be like a 1/32 or less. Then sand the gelcoat repair very carefully to not get to any green.
Is there a better way ?
2) My motor that came with the boat is an 9.7 horse regular shaft Mercury. Too big& too short. A previous owner installed an adjustable motor mount about foot below the notch in the transom. Soooo about $1500 can fix that issue. Maybe later in the summer.
3) I just spent a half hour reading older posts for the first time. I need to do more. I was considering going with slugs as there are some monster gusts on my lake. I will get some Sailcote next week. Do the slugs have to be installed by a sailmaker , or is it possible for an owner to install them ?
Thanks all for being happy hardworking sailers , and sending back some advice.
Doug _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
participants (4)
-
Doug Vogel -
Mark House -
robbin roddewig -
W David Scobie