Montypals: Just got #208 from Bob Becker. Nice craft. Just did the driveway sail today in preparation for a real sail soon! A couple of the through deck fittings are leaking a bit. These may be leaking through the section of wood core on the deck. There is no weakness there that I can feel. I noted a bit of water in the cabin after the big rain we had even with the boat covered. I can see the fitting that is leaking. What is the best way to deal with this, and what products do I need? I read somewhere that I should remove the fitting, use a bent nail or something on a drill bit to get out some of the core, and epoxy it first. Then redrill and seat with polyurethane sealer? Have I got the right idea here? What products to use? Daniel
daniel: rebed the hardware as soon as possible. if water gets into the balsa core BIG problems down the road. i have outlined the process, in text and pictures, i took in rebedding the handrails that were leaking, on my M17, SWEET PEA. the steps are essentially the same for all desk hardware. take a look at my www-site: www.m17-375.webs.com the specific page is - http://m17-375.webs.com/rebeddinghardware.htm :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us --- On Sun, 2/20/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote: Montypals: Just got #208 from Bob Becker. Nice craft. Just did the driveway sail today in preparation for a real sail soon! A couple of the through deck fittings are leaking a bit. These may be leaking through the section of wood core on the deck. There is no weakness there that I can feel. I noted a bit of water in the cabin after the big rain we had even with the boat covered. I can see the fitting that is leaking. What is the best way to deal with this, and what products do I need? I read somewhere that I should remove the fitting, use a bent nail or something on a drill bit to get out some of the core, and epoxy it first. Then redrill and seat with polyurethane sealer? Have I got the right idea here? What products to use? Daniel
OK, that looks perfect. Kind of what I thought. Looks like I can buy the products locally at the WestMarine nearby. The hardware is all stainless onto the deck. The hand rails and other teak look fine. It is the pulpit and life line hardware where the trouble is. So, 4200 is the stuff even with stainless? Daniel On Feb 20, 2011, at 8:30 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
daniel:
rebed the hardware as soon as possible. if water gets into the balsa core BIG problems down the road.
i have outlined the process, in text and pictures, i took in rebedding the handrails that were leaking, on my M17, SWEET PEA. the steps are essentially the same for all desk hardware.
take a look at my www-site:
www.m17-375.webs.com
the specific page is -
http://m17-375.webs.com/rebeddinghardware.htm
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us
--- On Sun, 2/20/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Montypals:
Just got #208 from Bob Becker. Nice craft. Just did the driveway sail today in preparation for a real sail soon!
A couple of the through deck fittings are leaking a bit. These may be leaking through the section of wood core on the deck. There is no weakness there that I can feel. I noted a bit of water in the cabin after the big rain we had even with the boat covered. I can see the fitting that is leaking. What is the best way to deal with this, and what products do I need? I read somewhere that I should remove the fitting, use a bent nail or something on a drill bit to get out some of the core, and epoxy it first. Then redrill and seat with polyurethane sealer? Have I got the right idea here? What products to use?
Daniel
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In reading your excellent article you note that you used colloidal silica. What is that, and does it come with the 105 system? Daniel On Feb 20, 2011, at 8:30 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
daniel:
rebed the hardware as soon as possible. if water gets into the balsa core BIG problems down the road.
i have outlined the process, in text and pictures, i took in rebedding the handrails that were leaking, on my M17, SWEET PEA. the steps are essentially the same for all desk hardware.
take a look at my www-site:
www.m17-375.webs.com
the specific page is -
http://m17-375.webs.com/rebeddinghardware.htm
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us
--- On Sun, 2/20/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Montypals:
Just got #208 from Bob Becker. Nice craft. Just did the driveway sail today in preparation for a real sail soon!
A couple of the through deck fittings are leaking a bit. These may be leaking through the section of wood core on the deck. There is no weakness there that I can feel. I noted a bit of water in the cabin after the big rain we had even with the boat covered. I can see the fitting that is leaking. What is the best way to deal with this, and what products do I need? I read somewhere that I should remove the fitting, use a bent nail or something on a drill bit to get out some of the core, and epoxy it first. Then redrill and seat with polyurethane sealer? Have I got the right idea here? What products to use?
Daniel
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The hardware is all stainless onto the deck ...It is the pulpit and life line hardware where the trouble is. daniel:
be sure the confirm that you have a good, strong, and appropriately large backing plate for the life-line stanchions. the life lines are HIGH LOAD structures that must be able to support the weight of crew being thrown around on deck.
So, 4200 is the stuff even with stainless?
yes. i'll be using 4200 when i rebed SWEET PEA's motor mount and installing a boarding ladder.
In reading your excellent article you note that you used colloidal silica. What is that, and does it come with the 105 system?
it is an additive that helps thicken and strengthen the epoxy. you will find cans of the additive in the west system epoxy section at west marine. ask for assistance from the store staff if you are unsure of the specific system components you need to complete the filling of the thru-deck holes. the thick epoxy will better fill the hold and the strength to support the compression load of the bolted deck hardware. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us On Feb 20, 2011, at 8:30 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
daniel:
rebed the hardware as soon as possible. if water gets into the balsa core BIG problems down the road.
i have outlined the process, in text and pictures, i took in rebedding the handrails that were leaking, on my M17, SWEET PEA. the steps are essentially the same for all desk hardware.
take a look at my www-site:
www.m17-375.webs.com
the specific page is -
http://m17-375.webs.com/rebeddinghardware.htm
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us
--- On Sun, 2/20/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Montypals:
Just got #208 from Bob Becker. Nice craft. Just did the driveway sail today in preparation for a real sail soon!
A couple of the through deck fittings are leaking a bit. These may be leaking through the section of wood core on the deck. There is no weakness there that I can feel. I noted a bit of water in the cabin after the big rain we had even with the boat covered. I can see the fitting that is leaking. What is the best way to deal with this, and what products do I need? I read somewhere that I should remove the fitting, use a bent nail or something on a drill bit to get out some of the core, and epoxy it first. Then redrill and seat with polyurethane sealer? Have I got the right idea here? What products to use?
Daniel
Thanks for such a rapid reply. I have now been to the WestMarine website, and the West Systems website. There is a wealth of information including videos and nice downloadable instruction manuals. I think I have the idea now. Soon I will remove the hardware and proceed with epoxy, drilling, and remounting with sealant. Looks like a bit of a job, but well worth it. Hopefully minimal to no rot! Daniel On Feb 20, 2011, at 9:15 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
The hardware is all stainless onto the deck ...It is the pulpit and life line hardware where the trouble is. daniel:
be sure the confirm that you have a good, strong, and appropriately large backing plate for the life-line stanchions. the life lines are HIGH LOAD structures that must be able to support the weight of crew being thrown around on deck.
So, 4200 is the stuff even with stainless?
yes. i'll be using 4200 when i rebed SWEET PEA's motor mount and installing a boarding ladder.
In reading your excellent article you note that you used colloidal silica. What is that, and does it come with the 105 system?
it is an additive that helps thicken and strengthen the epoxy. you will find cans of the additive in the west system epoxy section at west marine. ask for assistance from the store staff if you are unsure of the specific system components you need to complete the filling of the thru-deck holes.
the thick epoxy will better fill the hold and the strength to support the compression load of the bolted deck hardware.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us
On Feb 20, 2011, at 8:30 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
daniel:
rebed the hardware as soon as possible. if water gets into the balsa core BIG problems down the road.
i have outlined the process, in text and pictures, i took in rebedding the handrails that were leaking, on my M17, SWEET PEA. the steps are essentially the same for all desk hardware.
take a look at my www-site:
www.m17-375.webs.com
the specific page is -
http://m17-375.webs.com/rebeddinghardware.htm
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us
--- On Sun, 2/20/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Montypals:
Just got #208 from Bob Becker. Nice craft. Just did the driveway sail today in preparation for a real sail soon!
A couple of the through deck fittings are leaking a bit. These may be leaking through the section of wood core on the deck. There is no weakness there that I can feel. I noted a bit of water in the cabin after the big rain we had even with the boat covered. I can see the fitting that is leaking. What is the best way to deal with this, and what products do I need? I read somewhere that I should remove the fitting, use a bent nail or something on a drill bit to get out some of the core, and epoxy it first. Then redrill and seat with polyurethane sealer? Have I got the right idea here? What products to use?
Daniel
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Daniel: Here's a link to an excellent discussion of this job by boat maintenance guru Don Casey: www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/39.htm Here's a link to another Casey How-to piece on the type of sealer to use (polysulfide, or "Boat Caulk": www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/35.htm Good luck! Gordon M-17 Sapphire St. Paul, MN On Feb 20, 2011, at 10:17 PM, Daniel Rich wrote:
Montypals:
Just got #208 from Bob Becker. Nice craft. Just did the driveway sail today in preparation for a real sail soon!
A couple of the through deck fittings are leaking a bit. These may be leaking through the section of wood core on the deck. There is no weakness there that I can feel. I noted a bit of water in the cabin after the big rain we had even with the boat covered. I can see the fitting that is leaking. What is the best way to deal with this, and what products do I need? I read somewhere that I should remove the fitting, use a bent nail or something on a drill bit to get out some of the core, and epoxy it first. Then redrill and seat with polyurethane sealer? Have I got the right idea here? What products to use?
Daniel _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Thank you. I saw these articles also. Each one has some significant pearls that should make the job a little easier. Daniel On Feb 21, 2011, at 5:52 AM, Gordon Gilbert wrote:
Daniel: Here's a link to an excellent discussion of this job by boat maintenance guru Don Casey:
www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/39.htm
Here's a link to another Casey How-to piece on the type of sealer to use (polysulfide, or "Boat Caulk":
www.boatus.com/boattech/casey/35.htm
Good luck!
Gordon M-17 Sapphire St. Paul, MN
On Feb 20, 2011, at 10:17 PM, Daniel Rich wrote:
Montypals:
Just got #208 from Bob Becker. Nice craft. Just did the driveway sail today in preparation for a real sail soon!
A couple of the through deck fittings are leaking a bit. These may be leaking through the section of wood core on the deck. There is no weakness there that I can feel. I noted a bit of water in the cabin after the big rain we had even with the boat covered. I can see the fitting that is leaking. What is the best way to deal with this, and what products do I need? I read somewhere that I should remove the fitting, use a bent nail or something on a drill bit to get out some of the core, and epoxy it first. Then redrill and seat with polyurethane sealer? Have I got the right idea here? What products to use?
Daniel _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
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I know it's been mentioned several times before, but I've eleven years of (incomplete) e-mails from the server I don't want to search through. What's the consensus replacement for the M-15's original fixed motor mount? Garelick has several models. On the lighter (engine HP rating) end, the models 71040 (aluminum) and 71037 (SS) have 8-1/2" of vertical travel. Is this sufficient for an M-15? Or would the heavier (7.5 - 20 HP, 11-1/4" vertical travel) model 71057 (aluminum) or model 71056 (SS) be required? There's also the aluminum model 71042 (7.5 - 12 HP) with 14-1/4" vertical travel. Obviously I'd prefer stainless, and Defender has the model 71037 on closeout, but is the travel sufficient? http://search.defender.com/search.aspx?Action=9&Ascending=True&SH=QT1nYXJlbG... And as I am, of course, too large to fit down under the cockpit to get back to the transom (if only I were 17 again!), I've been thinking of adding an access port so I can get to the fasteners. Is a 4" opening sufficient? John Tyner '88 M-15 #412 "Chimpanzee"
On 21-Feb-11 12:58 PM, John Tyner wrote: Hi John, My M15 #400 originally had the fixed motor mount when I bought it. LaterI decided to change it to a lift mount - don't recall which one I bought,- but to gain access to the transom and add a backup plate, I cut out a section at the aft end of the port cockpit seat and installed a large rectangular sealing hatch. This gave me unlimited access to the transom so that it was easy installing a backing plate on the inside and later putting on the nuts and lock washers after I had installed the lift mount. (I was using a 2 HP HONDA short shaft engine). The advantage of using the large access port is that it gives you added - easily accessible - storage space. I used it for my small plastic bucket and for cleaning materials. Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO know it's been mentioned several times before, but I've eleven years of (incomplete) e-mails from the server I don't want to search through.
What's the consensus replacement for the M-15's original fixed motor mount? Garelick has several models. On the lighter (engine HP rating) end, the models 71040 (aluminum) and 71037 (SS) have 8-1/2" of vertical travel. Is this sufficient for an M-15? Or would the heavier (7.5 - 20 HP, 11-1/4" vertical travel) model 71057 (aluminum) or model 71056 (SS) be required? There's also the aluminum model 71042 (7.5 - 12 HP) with 14-1/4" vertical travel. Obviously I'd prefer stainless, and Defender has the model 71037 on closeout, but is the travel sufficient?
http://search.defender.com/search.aspx?Action=9&Ascending=True&SH=QT1nYXJlbG...
And as I am, of course, too large to fit down under the cockpit to get back to the transom (if only I were 17 again!), I've been thinking of adding an access port so I can get to the fasteners. Is a 4" opening sufficient?
John Tyner '88 M-15 #412 "Chimpanzee"
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Thank you, Connie. Now was that rectangular hatch in the actual seat (horizontal) or the vertical inner wall aft of the seat? I'm also using the Honda 2 HP, but long shaft (I think). John Tyner '88 M-15 #412 "Chimpanzee" On 2/21/2011 7:36 PM, Conbert Benneck wrote:
On 21-Feb-11 12:58 PM, John Tyner wrote:
Hi John,
My M15 #400 originally had the fixed motor mount when I bought it.
LaterI decided to change it to a lift mount - don't recall which one I bought,- but to gain access to the transom and add a backup plate, I cut out a section at the aft end of the port cockpit seat and installed a large rectangular sealing hatch.
This gave me unlimited access to the transom so that it was easy installing a backing plate on the inside and later putting on the nuts and lock washers after I had installed the lift mount. (I was using a 2 HP HONDA short shaft engine).
The advantage of using the large access port is that it gives you added - easily accessible - storage space. I used it for my small plastic bucket and for cleaning materials.
Connie
ex M15 #400 LEPPO
know it's been mentioned several times before, but I've eleven years of (incomplete) e-mails from the server I don't want to search through.
What's the consensus replacement for the M-15's original fixed motor mount? Garelick has several models. On the lighter (engine HP rating) end, the models 71040 (aluminum) and 71037 (SS) have 8-1/2" of vertical travel. Is this sufficient for an M-15? Or would the heavier (7.5 - 20 HP, 11-1/4" vertical travel) model 71057 (aluminum) or model 71056 (SS) be required? There's also the aluminum model 71042 (7.5 - 12 HP) with 14-1/4" vertical travel. Obviously I'd prefer stainless, and Defender has the model 71037 on closeout, but is the travel sufficient?
http://search.defender.com/search.aspx?Action=9&Ascending=True&SH=QT1nYXJlbG...
And as I am, of course, too large to fit down under the cockpit to get back to the transom (if only I were 17 again!), I've been thinking of adding an access port so I can get to the fasteners. Is a 4" opening sufficient?
John Tyner '88 M-15 #412 "Chimpanzee"
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When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Dear Gordon, First, I hope your health is at least as good as it can be under the circumstances. How are you feeling? Have you been able to do some sailing in MN? I wanted to ask you a quick question. I remembered that at some point you mentioned an outfit in China which sold you sails for the Monty 17 at a very good price. Were you happy with the quality? What was the name/web address of the place? I am thinking of getting a new mainsail, and perhaps a new sail for a new boat I got (a Windrider 16, single person trimaran). Best wishes of health and hope, and I hope to hear from you soon. Andrei.
Part of our nations problems are associated with the " cheap" mentality. Some items have good quality but MOST are inferior. The us companies NEED YOUR help you are supporting your fellow countrylmen. It is a shame if you have a high quality boat and want to put a low ball main sail on it!!! --- On Tue, 8/23/11, Andrei Caldararu <andreic@math.wisc.edu> wrote: From: Andrei Caldararu <andreic@math.wisc.edu> Subject: M_Boats: Hi To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 12:34 PM Dear Gordon, First, I hope your health is at least as good as it can be under the circumstances. How are you feeling? Have you been able to do some sailing in MN? I wanted to ask you a quick question. I remembered that at some point you mentioned an outfit in China which sold you sails for the Monty 17 at a very good price. Were you happy with the quality? What was the name/web address of the place? I am thinking of getting a new mainsail, and perhaps a new sail for a new boat I got (a Windrider 16, single person trimaran). Best wishes of health and hope, and I hope to hear from you soon. Andrei. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
No, Louis, part of our nation's problems are rude people like you. It's a global economy now; get used to that fact or you're going to be an unhappy, disadvantaged camper. My guess is that a clown like you spouts off before knowing what's really what; I doubt that you've ever actually used or even looked at a foreign-made sail. The sails I bought from Sails East are well designed and built, of high quality cloth and fit and perform on my boat perfectly -- plus their prices were ridiculously lower than that of domestic suppliers. Don't blame buyers if U.S. sailmakers can't compete on price and quality. And, Louis, please try to be courteous when you compose and send an e-mail to someone you don't know. Gordon A proud veteran On Aug 24, 2011, at 2:19 PM, Louis Remmers wrote:
Part of our nations problems are associated with the " cheap" mentality. Some items have good quality but MOST are inferior. The us companies NEED YOUR help you are supporting your fellow countrylmen. It is a shame if you have a high quality boat and want to put a low ball main sail on it!!!
--- On Tue, 8/23/11, Andrei Caldararu <andreic@math.wisc.edu> wrote:
From: Andrei Caldararu <andreic@math.wisc.edu> Subject: M_Boats: Hi To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 12:34 PM
Dear Gordon,
First, I hope your health is at least as good as it can be under the circumstances. How are you feeling? Have you been able to do some sailing in MN?
I wanted to ask you a quick question. I remembered that at some point you mentioned an outfit in China which sold you sails for the Monty 17 at a very good price. Were you happy with the quality? What was the name/web address of the place? I am thinking of getting a new mainsail, and perhaps a new sail for a new boat I got (a Windrider 16, single person trimaran).
Best wishes of health and hope, and I hope to hear from you soon.
Andrei. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
Gordon: I do apologize if my e mail seemed disrespectful, but I DID get your attention. Although we all know the current economic situation is global, very few of us have any influence in foreign economics. We do however have a huge impact in the economy of the USA. If we all purchase in country it WILL make a difference. I would like to recommend Douglas Fowler sail maker from New York. Chris Rooke in Memphis is also able to make excellent sails at a very good price. If you look around you will find MANY mom and pop outfits that we need to help us all float our boats so to speak. Once again accept my apologies for rocking your boat. Louis Remmers. --- On Tue, 8/23/11, Andrei Caldararu <andreic@math.wisc.edu> wrote: From: Andrei Caldararu <andreic@math.wisc.edu> Subject: M_Boats: Hi To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 12:34 PM Dear Gordon, First, I hope your health is at least as good as it can be under the circumstances. How are you feeling? Have you been able to do some sailing in MN? I wanted to ask you a quick question. I remembered that at some point you mentioned an outfit in China which sold you sails for the Monty 17 at a very good price. Were you happy with the quality? What was the name/web address of the place? I am thinking of getting a new mainsail, and perhaps a new sail for a new boat I got (a Windrider 16, single person trimaran). Best wishes of health and hope, and I hope to hear from you soon. Andrei. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
Apology accepted, Louis. You're right in that 2/3rds of the U.S. gross domestic product is driven by the consumer sector -- the goods and services purchased by all of us (excluding businesses and the government). That's important for our nation's well being, and especially for small businesses. All competitors in the global economy -- including many "mom-and-pop outfits" in the United States -- work hard to sell to foreign buyers. At the same time, many savvy consumers seek out the world's best products and services for the lowest price -- which makes sense. In a way, this potentially threatening "global economy" can benefit us all -- as consumers and businesses. I don't think boat sails or any other products are necessarily inferior -- or "low-ball," as you said -- just because they are made abroad. What's more, my recommending a Chinese sailmaker to someone doesn't mean I'm against buying "American." In fact, feel free to call Harry Pattison at Elliott-Pattison Sailmakers, a top-notch sailmaker in the United State of California who knows Montgomery boats well, and ask him how many sails Gordon Gilbert has purchased from him. You might be surprised at what an "equal opportunity" buyer I am. I'm just a hard-working guy who, like anyone else, wants to get the most for his money. Enjoy the rest of your sailing season! Gordon Still a Proud U.S. Air Force Veteran P.S. Frankly, I don't think being disrespectful or discourteous to someone in an e-mail -- especially someone you don't know -- is a good way to GET THEIR ATTENTION. On Aug 24, 2011, at 5:28 PM, Louis Remmers wrote:
Gordon: I do apologize if my e mail seemed disrespectful, but I DID get your attention. Although we all know the current economic situation is global, very few of us have any influence in foreign economics. We do however have a huge impact in the economy of the USA. If we all purchase in country it WILL make a difference. I would like to recommend Douglas Fowler sail maker from New York. Chris Rooke in Memphis is also able to make excellent sails at a very good price. If you look around you will find MANY mom and pop outfits that we need to help us all float our boats so to speak. Once again accept my apologies for rocking your boat. Louis Remmers.
--- On Tue, 8/23/11, Andrei Caldararu <andreic@math.wisc.edu> wrote:
From: Andrei Caldararu <andreic@math.wisc.edu> Subject: M_Boats: Hi To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 12:34 PM
Dear Gordon,
First, I hope your health is at least as good as it can be under the circumstances. How are you feeling? Have you been able to do some sailing in MN?
I wanted to ask you a quick question. I remembered that at some point you mentioned an outfit in China which sold you sails for the Monty 17 at a very good price. Were you happy with the quality? What was the name/web address of the place? I am thinking of getting a new mainsail, and perhaps a new sail for a new boat I got (a Windrider 16, single person trimaran).
Best wishes of health and hope, and I hope to hear from you soon.
Andrei. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
Hi Gordon..!...Yep..you're right about Harry Pattison at Elliott-Pattison Sailmakers.....One of the BEST sailmakers on the planet.! I've bought 100s of sails from Harry; a few last week and just ordered 5 more sets for production boats yesterday. I also appreciate Harry's lectures about Sails at our Lake Havasu Convention. The guy drives all the way out, spends several hours talking to people and helping them until late at night. We're lucky to have Harry involved like that.! Fair winds Bob (949) 489-8227 www.montgomeryboats.com
From: gordon@financialwriting.net Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 21:54:19 -0500 To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hi
Apology accepted, Louis. You're right in that 2/3rds of the U.S. gross domestic product is driven by the consumer sector -- the goods and services purchased by all of us (excluding businesses and the government). That's important for our nation's well being, and especially for small businesses. All competitors in the global economy -- including many "mom-and-pop outfits" in the United States -- work hard to sell to foreign buyers. At the same time, many savvy consumers seek out the world's best products and services for the lowest price -- which makes sense. In a way, this potentially threatening "global economy" can benefit us all -- as consumers and businesses. I don't think boat sails or any other products are necessarily inferior -- or "low-ball," as you said -- just because they are made abroad.
What's more, my recommending a Chinese sailmaker to someone doesn't mean I'm against buying "American." In fact, feel free to call Harry Pattison at Elliott-Pattison Sailmakers, a top-notch sailmaker in the United State of California who knows Montgomery boats well, and ask him how many sails Gordon Gilbert has purchased from him. You might be surprised at what an "equal opportunity" buyer I am. I'm just a hard-working guy who, like anyone else, wants to get the most for his money.
Enjoy the rest of your sailing season!
Gordon Still a Proud U.S. Air Force Veteran P.S. Frankly, I don't think being disrespectful or discourteous to someone in an e-mail -- especially someone you don't know -- is a good way to GET THEIR ATTENTION.
On Aug 24, 2011, at 5:28 PM, Louis Remmers wrote:
Gordon: I do apologize if my e mail seemed disrespectful, but I DID get your attention. Although we all know the current economic situation is global, very few of us have any influence in foreign economics. We do however have a huge impact in the economy of the USA. If we all purchase in country it WILL make a difference. I would like to recommend Douglas Fowler sail maker from New York. Chris Rooke in Memphis is also able to make excellent sails at a very good price. If you look around you will find MANY mom and pop outfits that we need to help us all float our boats so to speak. Once again accept my apologies for rocking your boat. Louis Remmers.
--- On Tue, 8/23/11, Andrei Caldararu <andreic@math.wisc.edu> wrote:
From: Andrei Caldararu <andreic@math.wisc.edu> Subject: M_Boats: Hi To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 12:34 PM
Dear Gordon,
First, I hope your health is at least as good as it can be under the circumstances. How are you feeling? Have you been able to do some sailing in MN?
I wanted to ask you a quick question. I remembered that at some point you mentioned an outfit in China which sold you sails for the Monty 17 at a very good price. Were you happy with the quality? What was the name/web address of the place? I am thinking of getting a new mainsail, and perhaps a new sail for a new boat I got (a Windrider 16, single person trimaran).
Best wishes of health and hope, and I hope to hear from you soon.
Andrei. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Yes, indeed, Bob. Harry knows our boats well (not an advantage you get with every loft) and does a great job. He has spent time on the phone with me learning about my boat and the way I wanted to use it, and then recommended and delivered an excellent product that works great. I've been thinking of buying another sail sometime soon, and Harry will be the first guy I call. I'll readily agree that sometimes getting the lowest price isn't always getting the best deal. As the saying goes, "Buy high quality and you only cry once." Take care, Gordon On Aug 25, 2011, at 12:59 AM, Bob Eeg wrote:
Hi Gordon..!...Yep..you're right about Harry Pattison at Elliott-Pattison Sailmakers.....One of the BEST sailmakers on the planet.!
I've bought 100s of sails from Harry; a few last week and just ordered 5 more sets for production boats yesterday.
I also appreciate Harry's lectures about Sails at our Lake Havasu Convention. The guy drives all the way out, spends several hours talking to people and helping them until late at night. We're lucky to have Harry involved like that.!
Fair winds Bob (949) 489-8227 www.montgomeryboats.com
From: gordon@financialwriting.net Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 21:54:19 -0500 To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: Hi
Apology accepted, Louis. You're right in that 2/3rds of the U.S. gross domestic product is driven by the consumer sector -- the goods and services purchased by all of us (excluding businesses and the government). That's important for our nation's well being, and especially for small businesses. All competitors in the global economy -- including many "mom-and-pop outfits" in the United States -- work hard to sell to foreign buyers. At the same time, many savvy consumers seek out the world's best products and services for the lowest price -- which makes sense. In a way, this potentially threatening "global economy" can benefit us all -- as consumers and businesses. I don't think boat sails or any other products are necessarily inferior -- or "low-ball," as you said -- just because they are made abroad.
What's more, my recommending a Chinese sailmaker to someone doesn't mean I'm against buying "American." In fact, feel free to call Harry Pattison at Elliott-Pattison Sailmakers, a top-notch sailmaker in the United State of California who knows Montgomery boats well, and ask him how many sails Gordon Gilbert has purchased from him. You might be surprised at what an "equal opportunity" buyer I am. I'm just a hard-working guy who, like anyone else, wants to get the most for his money.
Enjoy the rest of your sailing season!
Gordon Still a Proud U.S. Air Force Veteran P.S. Frankly, I don't think being disrespectful or discourteous to someone in an e-mail -- especially someone you don't know -- is a good way to GET THEIR ATTENTION.
On Aug 24, 2011, at 5:28 PM, Louis Remmers wrote:
Gordon: I do apologize if my e mail seemed disrespectful, but I DID get your attention. Although we all know the current economic situation is global, very few of us have any influence in foreign economics. We do however have a huge impact in the economy of the USA. If we all purchase in country it WILL make a difference. I would like to recommend Douglas Fowler sail maker from New York. Chris Rooke in Memphis is also able to make excellent sails at a very good price. If you look around you will find MANY mom and pop outfits that we need to help us all float our boats so to speak. Once again accept my apologies for rocking your boat. Louis Remmers.
--- On Tue, 8/23/11, Andrei Caldararu <andreic@math.wisc.edu> wrote:
From: Andrei Caldararu <andreic@math.wisc.edu> Subject: M_Boats: Hi To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 12:34 PM
Dear Gordon,
First, I hope your health is at least as good as it can be under the circumstances. How are you feeling? Have you been able to do some sailing in MN?
I wanted to ask you a quick question. I remembered that at some point you mentioned an outfit in China which sold you sails for the Monty 17 at a very good price. Were you happy with the quality? What was the name/web address of the place? I am thinking of getting a new mainsail, and perhaps a new sail for a new boat I got (a Windrider 16, single person trimaran).
Best wishes of health and hope, and I hope to hear from you soon.
Andrei. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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I do exactly what you've outlined. To cut out the core I have found that using a roofing nail works better than the bent nail. I tried using my roto zip with a burr tip but I kept breaking the tip off when it touched the fiberglass. I use "Life Calk" by BoatLIFE. Don't use 5200!! Joe Seafrog M17 #651 ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 11:17 PM Subject: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware Montypals: Just got #208 from Bob Becker. Nice craft. Just did the driveway sail today in preparation for a real sail soon! A couple of the through deck fittings are leaking a bit. These may be leaking through the section of wood core on the deck. There is no weakness there that I can feel. I noted a bit of water in the cabin after the big rain we had even with the boat covered. I can see the fitting that is leaking. What is the best way to deal with this, and what products do I need? I read somewhere that I should remove the fitting, use a bent nail or something on a drill bit to get out some of the core, and epoxy it first. Then redrill and seat with polyurethane sealer? Have I got the right idea here? What products to use? Daniel _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
Why not 4200? 5200 seems to weak. Daniel On Feb 21, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
I do exactly what you've outlined. To cut out the core I have found that using a roofing nail works better than the bent nail. I tried using my roto zip with a burr tip but I kept breaking the tip off when it touched the fiberglass. I use "Life Calk" by BoatLIFE. Don't use 5200!! Joe Seafrog M17 #651 ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 11:17 PM Subject: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware
Montypals:
Just got #208 from Bob Becker. Nice craft. Just did the driveway sail today in preparation for a real sail soon!
A couple of the through deck fittings are leaking a bit. These may be leaking through the section of wood core on the deck. There is no weakness there that I can feel. I noted a bit of water in the cabin after the big rain we had even with the boat covered. I can see the fitting that is leaking. What is the best way to deal with this, and what products do I need? I read somewhere that I should remove the fitting, use a bent nail or something on a drill bit to get out some of the core, and epoxy it first. Then redrill and seat with polyurethane sealer? Have I got the right idea here? What products to use?
Daniel _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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daniel: below are my person 'definitions and uses' with the products discussed - 5200 - below waterline applications. use for fittings you will _never_ (essentially) remove. 5200 is excellent and 'permenant' adhesive and sealant. 4200 - above waterline applications. a challenge to remove but can be done (carefully so as not to damage the surface ... ie the gelcoat) 4200 is an a sealant and a good adhesive. Life Calk - above waterline applications. not difficult to remove but you must re-bed your hardware more often than with 4200. life calk is a sealant and a weak adhesive. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us --- On Mon, 2/21/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote: Why not 4200? 5200 seems to weak. Daniel
On my way to west marine now. Looks like 18 bolts have got to be done. One life line rail, bow pulpit, and 1 cleat. Only 3 leaks, but gotta pull those parts. Won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking. Daniel Sent from my iPhone On Feb 21, 2011, at 12:47 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
daniel:
below are my person 'definitions and uses' with the products discussed -
5200 - below waterline applications. use for fittings you will _never_ (essentially) remove. 5200 is excellent and 'permenant' adhesive and sealant.
4200 - above waterline applications. a challenge to remove but can be done (carefully so as not to damage the surface ... ie the gelcoat) 4200 is an a sealant and a good adhesive.
Life Calk - above waterline applications. not difficult to remove but you must re-bed your hardware more often than with 4200. life calk is a sealant and a weak adhesive.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us
--- On Mon, 2/21/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote: Why not 4200? 5200 seems to weak.
Daniel
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Not sure what you meant by "won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking." Does that mean you are only going to drill out; epoxy fill; and, redrill just the holes that had leaks?? I'd do all 18. ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 4:05 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware On my way to west marine now. Looks like 18 bolts have got to be done. One life line rail, bow pulpit, and 1 cleat. Only 3 leaks, but gotta pull those parts. Won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking. Daniel Sent from my iPhone On Feb 21, 2011, at 12:47 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
daniel:
below are my person 'definitions and uses' with the products discussed -
5200 - below waterline applications. use for fittings you will _never_ (essentially) remove. 5200 is excellent and 'permenant' adhesive and sealant.
4200 - above waterline applications. a challenge to remove but can be done (carefully so as not to damage the surface ... ie the gelcoat) 4200 is an a sealant and a good adhesive.
Life Calk - above waterline applications. not difficult to remove but you must re-bed your hardware more often than with 4200. life calk is a sealant and a weak adhesive.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us
--- On Mon, 2/21/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote: Why not 4200? 5200 seems to weak.
Daniel
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I'll see what it looks like when I get the stuff off. It may be very easy to do just that. Daniel On Feb 21, 2011, at 1:33 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Not sure what you meant by "won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking." Does that mean you are only going to drill out; epoxy fill; and, redrill just the holes that had leaks?? I'd do all 18. ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 4:05 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware
On my way to west marine now. Looks like 18 bolts have got to be done. One life line rail, bow pulpit, and 1 cleat. Only 3 leaks, but gotta pull those parts. Won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking.
Daniel
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 21, 2011, at 12:47 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
daniel:
below are my person 'definitions and uses' with the products discussed -
5200 - below waterline applications. use for fittings you will _never_ (essentially) remove. 5200 is excellent and 'permenant' adhesive and sealant.
4200 - above waterline applications. a challenge to remove but can be done (carefully so as not to damage the surface ... ie the gelcoat) 4200 is an a sealant and a good adhesive.
Life Calk - above waterline applications. not difficult to remove but you must re-bed your hardware more often than with 4200. life calk is a sealant and a weak adhesive.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us
--- On Mon, 2/21/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote: Why not 4200? 5200 seems to weak.
Daniel
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_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Daniel, I've do the same thing on both my M boats. So feel free to call if you get stuck. Ken (The Windsor one) -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+wesi=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+wesi=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Rich Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 2:55 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware I'll see what it looks like when I get the stuff off. It may be very easy to do just that. Daniel On Feb 21, 2011, at 1:33 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Not sure what you meant by "won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking." Does that mean you are only going to drill out; epoxy fill; and, redrill just the holes that had leaks?? I'd do all 18. ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 4:05 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware
On my way to west marine now. Looks like 18 bolts have got to be done. One life line rail, bow pulpit, and 1 cleat. Only 3 leaks, but gotta pull those parts. Won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking.
Daniel
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 21, 2011, at 12:47 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
daniel:
below are my person 'definitions and uses' with the products discussed -
5200 - below waterline applications. use for fittings you will _never_ (essentially) remove. 5200 is excellent and 'permenant' adhesive and sealant.
4200 - above waterline applications. a challenge to remove but can be done (carefully so as not to damage the surface ... ie the gelcoat) 4200 is an a sealant and a good adhesive.
Life Calk - above waterline applications. not difficult to remove but you must re-bed your hardware more often than with 4200. life calk is a sealant and a weak adhesive.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us
--- On Mon, 2/21/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote: Why not 4200? 5200 seems to weak.
Daniel
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_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Thanks, man! I've never done it, but after reading about it and watching some video, looks pretty good. I'll give you a call if needed. Might want you to take a look at her anyway! Daniel Sent from my iPhone On Feb 21, 2011, at 4:36 PM, Ken Wheeler <wesi@comcast.net> wrote:
Daniel, I've do the same thing on both my M boats. So feel free to call if you get stuck. Ken (The Windsor one)
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+wesi=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+wesi=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Rich Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 2:55 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware
I'll see what it looks like when I get the stuff off. It may be very easy to do just that.
Daniel On Feb 21, 2011, at 1:33 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Not sure what you meant by "won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking." Does that mean you are only going to drill out; epoxy fill; and, redrill just the holes that had leaks?? I'd do all 18. ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 4:05 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware
On my way to west marine now. Looks like 18 bolts have got to be done. One life line rail, bow pulpit, and 1 cleat. Only 3 leaks, but gotta pull those parts. Won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking.
Daniel
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 21, 2011, at 12:47 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
daniel:
below are my person 'definitions and uses' with the products discussed -
5200 - below waterline applications. use for fittings you will _never_ (essentially) remove. 5200 is excellent and 'permenant' adhesive and sealant.
4200 - above waterline applications. a challenge to remove but can be done (carefully so as not to damage the surface ... ie the gelcoat) 4200 is an a sealant and a good adhesive.
Life Calk - above waterline applications. not difficult to remove but you must re-bed your hardware more often than with 4200. life calk is a sealant and a weak adhesive.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us
--- On Mon, 2/21/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote: Why not 4200? 5200 seems to weak.
Daniel
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_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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So, my plan, is to take off the hardware and inspect the holes. Then I will use the bent nail drill bit technique to remove some core as needed, and vacuum out. Then I will tape the holes from behind with duct tape, and inject using a syringe West Systems 105 epoxy with hardener and fill the holes. I understand that I have to squirt it in a few times, as the balsa absorbs quite a bit. Any idea of the timing of that? Do I squirt, wait a few minutes and squirt again? Or do I squirt, wait a few hours and mix a new batch? Once done, I'm supposed to then mix a fresh batch with the colloidal silica as paste and inject for a final fill. Does this seem like a good plan? Then, when cured in a day or two I will redrill the holes, and use 3M 4200 to bed the fittings. Still just a little confused about the timing of the epoxy. Daniel On 2/21/2011 4:36 PM, Ken Wheeler wrote:
Daniel, I've do the same thing on both my M boats. So feel free to call if you get stuck. Ken (The Windsor one)
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+wesi=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+wesi=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Rich Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 2:55 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware
I'll see what it looks like when I get the stuff off. It may be very easy to do just that.
Daniel On Feb 21, 2011, at 1:33 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Not sure what you meant by "won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking." Does that mean you are only going to drill out; epoxy fill; and, redrill just the holes that had leaks?? I'd do all 18. ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 4:05 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware
On my way to west marine now. Looks like 18 bolts have got to be done. One life line rail, bow pulpit, and 1 cleat. Only 3 leaks, but gotta pull those parts. Won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking.
Daniel
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 21, 2011, at 12:47 PM, W David Scobie<wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
daniel:
below are my person 'definitions and uses' with the products discussed -
5200 - below waterline applications. use for fittings you will _never_ (essentially) remove. 5200 is excellent and 'permenant' adhesive and sealant. 4200 - above waterline applications. a challenge to remove but can be done (carefully so as not to damage the surface ... ie the gelcoat) 4200 is an a sealant and a good adhesive. Life Calk - above waterline applications. not difficult to remove but you must re-bed your hardware more often than with 4200. life calk is a sealant and a weak adhesive.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us
--- On Mon, 2/21/11, Daniel Rich<danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote: Why not 4200? 5200 seems to weak.
Daniel
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http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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On 22-Feb-11 12:11 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel, From your questions I assume that you don't have a WEST Repair Manual. WEST will gladly send you their Epoxy repair manual for free to help you do good work. It's an absolute necessity that then answers all your questions of "How do I..." Get one today! Then enjoy doing the work. Connie
So, my plan, is to take off the hardware and inspect the holes. Then I will use the bent nail drill bit technique to remove some core as needed, and vacuum out. Then I will tape the holes from behind with duct tape, and inject using a syringe West Systems 105 epoxy with hardener and fill the holes. I understand that I have to squirt it in a few times, as the balsa absorbs quite a bit. Any idea of the timing of that? Do I squirt, wait a few minutes and squirt again? Or do I squirt, wait a few hours and mix a new batch? Once done, I'm supposed to then mix a fresh batch with the colloidal silica as paste and inject for a final fill. Does this seem like a good plan?
Then, when cured in a day or two I will redrill the holes, and use 3M 4200 to bed the fittings.
Still just a little confused about the timing of the epoxy.
Daniel
On 2/21/2011 4:36 PM, Ken Wheeler wrote:
Daniel, I've do the same thing on both my M boats. So feel free to call if you get stuck. Ken (The Windsor one)
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+wesi=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+wesi=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Rich Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 2:55 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware
I'll see what it looks like when I get the stuff off. It may be very easy to do just that.
Daniel On Feb 21, 2011, at 1:33 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Not sure what you meant by "won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking." Does that mean you are only going to drill out; epoxy fill; and, redrill just the holes that had leaks?? I'd do all 18. ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 4:05 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware
On my way to west marine now. Looks like 18 bolts have got to be done. One life line rail, bow pulpit, and 1 cleat. Only 3 leaks, but gotta pull those parts. Won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking.
Daniel
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 21, 2011, at 12:47 PM, W David Scobie<wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
daniel:
below are my person 'definitions and uses' with the products discussed -
5200 - below waterline applications. use for fittings you will _never_ (essentially) remove. 5200 is excellent and 'permenant' adhesive and sealant. 4200 - above waterline applications. a challenge to remove but can be done (carefully so as not to damage the surface ... ie the gelcoat) 4200 is an a sealant and a good adhesive. Life Calk - above waterline applications. not difficult to remove but you must re-bed your hardware more often than with 4200. life calk is a sealant and a weak adhesive.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us
--- On Mon, 2/21/11, Daniel Rich<danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote: Why not 4200? 5200 seems to weak.
Daniel
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http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
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When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
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I have it. It is available free online. It is just the logistics of never having done it. They tell you to "wet out" the holes first, which means squirt in the 105/205 epoxy without additives, and then later to fill with 105/205 and some additive such as 405 colloidal silica. My question is not about that process exactly, but the timing. I'm sure it will make more sense when I actually do it. The point is I don't want to fill the holes up to the top without leaving room for the second application with the thicker stuff. Daniel On 2/22/2011 11:37 AM, Conbert Benneck wrote:
On 22-Feb-11 12:11 PM, Daniel Rich wrote:
Hi Daniel,
From your questions I assume that you don't have a WEST Repair Manual. WEST will gladly send you their Epoxy repair manual for free to help you do good work.
It's an absolute necessity that then answers all your questions of "How do I..."
Get one today!
Then enjoy doing the work.
Connie
So, my plan, is to take off the hardware and inspect the holes. Then I will use the bent nail drill bit technique to remove some core as needed, and vacuum out. Then I will tape the holes from behind with duct tape, and inject using a syringe West Systems 105 epoxy with hardener and fill the holes. I understand that I have to squirt it in a few times, as the balsa absorbs quite a bit. Any idea of the timing of that? Do I squirt, wait a few minutes and squirt again? Or do I squirt, wait a few hours and mix a new batch? Once done, I'm supposed to then mix a fresh batch with the colloidal silica as paste and inject for a final fill. Does this seem like a good plan?
Then, when cured in a day or two I will redrill the holes, and use 3M 4200 to bed the fittings.
Still just a little confused about the timing of the epoxy.
Daniel
On 2/21/2011 4:36 PM, Ken Wheeler wrote:
Daniel, I've do the same thing on both my M boats. So feel free to call if you get stuck. Ken (The Windsor one)
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+wesi=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+wesi=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Rich Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 2:55 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware
I'll see what it looks like when I get the stuff off. It may be very easy to do just that.
Daniel On Feb 21, 2011, at 1:33 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Not sure what you meant by "won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking." Does that mean you are only going to drill out; epoxy fill; and, redrill just the holes that had leaks?? I'd do all 18. ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 4:05 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware
On my way to west marine now. Looks like 18 bolts have got to be done. One life line rail, bow pulpit, and 1 cleat. Only 3 leaks, but gotta pull those parts. Won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking.
Daniel
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 21, 2011, at 12:47 PM, W David Scobie<wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
daniel:
below are my person 'definitions and uses' with the products discussed -
5200 - below waterline applications. use for fittings you will _never_ (essentially) remove. 5200 is excellent and 'permenant' adhesive and sealant. 4200 - above waterline applications. a challenge to remove but can be done (carefully so as not to damage the surface ... ie the gelcoat) 4200 is an a sealant and a good adhesive. Life Calk - above waterline applications. not difficult to remove but you must re-bed your hardware more often than with 4200. life calk is a sealant and a weak adhesive.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us
--- On Mon, 2/21/11, Daniel Rich<danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote: Why not 4200? 5200 seems to weak.
Daniel
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_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
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daniel: fill ALL the holes. this is a preventative measure against future leaks. only adds a few minutes of work as you have the hardware off. i filled the handrail holes on SWEET PEA and then refiled with the first hole, second hole etc. and then redid the sequence a third time. i then mixed in the thickener and filled the holes. : Dave Scobie : M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com : Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us --- On Tue, 2/22/11, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote: I have it. It is available free online. It is just the logistics of never having done it. They tell you to "wet out" the holes first, which means squirt in the 105/205 epoxy without additives, and then later to fill with 105/205 and some additive such as 405 colloidal silica. My question is not about that process exactly, but the timing. I'm sure it will make more sense when I actually do it. The point is I don't want to fill the holes up to the top without leaving room for the second application with the thicker stuff. Daniel On 2/22/2011 11:37 AM, Conbert Benneck wrote:
On 22-Feb-11 12:11 PM, Daniel Rich wrote:
Hi Daniel,
From your questions I assume that you don't have a WEST Repair Manual. WEST will gladly send you their Epoxy repair manual for free to help you do good work.
It's an absolute necessity that then answers all your questions of "How do I..."
Get one today!
Then enjoy doing the work.
Connie
So, my plan, is to take off the hardware and inspect the holes. Then I will use the bent nail drill bit technique to remove some core as needed, and vacuum out. Then I will tape the holes from behind with duct tape, and inject using a syringe West Systems 105 epoxy with hardener and fill the holes. I understand that I have to squirt it in a few times, as the balsa absorbs quite a bit. Any idea of the timing of that? Do I squirt, wait a few minutes and squirt again? Or do I squirt, wait a few hours and mix a new batch? Once done, I'm supposed to then mix a fresh batch with the colloidal silica as paste and inject for a final fill. Does this seem like a good plan?
Then, when cured in a day or two I will redrill the holes, and use 3M 4200 to bed the fittings.
Still just a little confused about the timing of the epoxy.
Daniel
Now, that is what I am talking about. OK, I'll do it. Thanks for the info! Daniel On 2/22/2011 12:13 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
daniel:
fill ALL the holes. this is a preventative measure against future leaks. only adds a few minutes of work as you have the hardware off.
i filled the handrail holes on SWEET PEA and then refiled with the first hole, second hole etc. and then redid the sequence a third time. i then mixed in the thickener and filled the holes.
: Dave Scobie : M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com : Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us
--- On Tue, 2/22/11, Daniel Rich<danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
I have it. It is available free online. It is just the logistics of never having done it. They tell you to "wet out" the holes first, which means squirt in the 105/205 epoxy without additives, and then later to fill with 105/205 and some additive such as 405 colloidal silica. My question is not about that process exactly, but the timing. I'm sure it will make more sense when I actually do it. The point is I don't want to fill the holes up to the top without leaving room for the second application with the thicker stuff.
Daniel
On 2/22/2011 11:37 AM, Conbert Benneck wrote:
On 22-Feb-11 12:11 PM, Daniel Rich wrote:
Hi Daniel,
From your questions I assume that you don't have a WEST Repair Manual. WEST will gladly send you their Epoxy repair manual for free to help you do good work.
It's an absolute necessity that then answers all your questions of "How do I..."
Get one today!
Then enjoy doing the work.
Connie
So, my plan, is to take off the hardware and inspect the holes. Then I will use the bent nail drill bit technique to remove some core as needed, and vacuum out. Then I will tape the holes from behind with duct tape, and inject using a syringe West Systems 105 epoxy with hardener and fill the holes. I understand that I have to squirt it in a few times, as the balsa absorbs quite a bit. Any idea of the timing of that? Do I squirt, wait a few minutes and squirt again? Or do I squirt, wait a few hours and mix a new batch? Once done, I'm supposed to then mix a fresh batch with the colloidal silica as paste and inject for a final fill. Does this seem like a good plan?
Then, when cured in a day or two I will redrill the holes, and use 3M 4200 to bed the fittings.
Still just a little confused about the timing of the epoxy.
Daniel
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Hey Daniel, Congrats on your new-to-you M15. Nice to have another M-boat in Sonoma County. As to the timing of your repair, remember that epoxy will create a chemical bond to itself so long as it has not fully cured so you can go ahead and add the thickened epoxy before the un-thickened stuff has completely gone off. When it goes off, of course, depends on the type of hardener you are using, the volume of the epoxy and the temperature at the time. All of that depends on the amount of core you need to saturate and the size of the hole you need to fill. Mix small batches, even in this cool weather we're having because large volumes of epoxy will heat up and go off in the container before you can use it (I know this all too well!). If the deck is not soft around the fittings or the core is not noticeably wet or damaged when you inspect it, you can skip the bent-nail routine and just over-drill the hole and fill with thickened epoxy, re-drill to the correct size and rebed the fittings with polysulfide as per Don Casey. Also, I have found that the clear plastic tape used to seal cartons works better than duct tape because you can see through it to be sure you have filled the hole completely, epoxy will not stick to it and it leaves no sticky residue when you pull it off. Over-drilling holes is kind of a PITA, but it pays off in peace of mind. Be safe with epoxy. Wear nitrile gloves and maybe a respirator. Colloidal silica is ridiculously light and gets into the air very easily and is not a good thing to get into lungs. Hope this helps, Cheers, George (long time lurker, sometime contributor, to this list.) M15 #385, which has been, sadly, long unused and covered in horse paraphernalia in my garage in Santa Rosa. (There is hope: the horse is for sale, not the boat!) 8 ft Tender Behind, wooden lapstrake sailing/rowing dinghy, built with West System epoxy. On Feb 22, 2011, at 9:11 AM, Daniel Rich wrote:
So, my plan, is to take off the hardware and inspect the holes. Then I will use the bent nail drill bit technique to remove some core as needed, and vacuum out. Then I will tape the holes from behind with duct tape, and inject using a syringe West Systems 105 epoxy with hardener and fill the holes. I understand that I have to squirt it in a few times, as the balsa absorbs quite a bit. Any idea of the timing of that? Do I squirt, wait a few minutes and squirt again? Or do I squirt, wait a few hours and mix a new batch? Once done, I'm supposed to then mix a fresh batch with the colloidal silica as paste and inject for a final fill. Does this seem like a good plan?
Then, when cured in a day or two I will redrill the holes, and use 3M 4200 to bed the fittings.
Still just a little confused about the timing of the epoxy.
Daniel
On 2/21/2011 4:36 PM, Ken Wheeler wrote:
Daniel, I've do the same thing on both my M boats. So feel free to call if you get stuck. Ken (The Windsor one)
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces+wesi=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+wesi=comcast.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Daniel Rich Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 2:55 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware
I'll see what it looks like when I get the stuff off. It may be very easy to do just that.
Daniel On Feb 21, 2011, at 1:33 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
Not sure what you meant by "won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking." Does that mean you are only going to drill out; epoxy fill; and, redrill just the holes that had leaks?? I'd do all 18. ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 4:05 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware
On my way to west marine now. Looks like 18 bolts have got to be done. One life line rail, bow pulpit, and 1 cleat. Only 3 leaks, but gotta pull those parts. Won't epoxy the ones that aren't leaking.
Daniel
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 21, 2011, at 12:47 PM, W David Scobie<wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
daniel:
below are my person 'definitions and uses' with the products discussed -
5200 - below waterline applications. use for fittings you will _never_ (essentially) remove. 5200 is excellent and 'permenant' adhesive and sealant. 4200 - above waterline applications. a challenge to remove but can be done (carefully so as not to damage the surface ... ie the gelcoat) 4200 is an a sealant and a good adhesive. Life Calk - above waterline applications. not difficult to remove but you must re-bed your hardware more often than with 4200. life calk is a sealant and a weak adhesive.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us
--- On Mon, 2/21/11, Daniel Rich<danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote: Why not 4200? 5200 seems to weak.
Daniel
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I think 4200 would be ok as well. Like so many DIY'rs out there, you use what you were taught with. All the boat yards around me prefer Life Calk. And they all said "hey Joe, use this.." Besides, it's cheaper. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, February 21, 2011 3:38 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware Why not 4200? 5200 seems to weak. Daniel On Feb 21, 2011, at 12:35 PM, Joe Murphy wrote:
I do exactly what you've outlined. To cut out the core I have found that using a roofing nail works better than the bent nail. I tried using my roto zip with a burr tip but I kept breaking the tip off when it touched the fiberglass. I use "Life Calk" by BoatLIFE. Don't use 5200!! Joe Seafrog M17 #651 ----- Original Message ----- From: Daniel Rich To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2011 11:17 PM Subject: M_Boats: Rebedding deck hardware
Montypals:
Just got #208 from Bob Becker. Nice craft. Just did the driveway sail today in preparation for a real sail soon!
A couple of the through deck fittings are leaking a bit. These may be leaking through the section of wood core on the deck. There is no weakness there that I can feel. I noted a bit of water in the cabin after the big rain we had even with the boat covered. I can see the fitting that is leaking. What is the best way to deal with this, and what products do I need? I read somewhere that I should remove the fitting, use a bent nail or something on a drill bit to get out some of the core, and epoxy it first. Then redrill and seat with polyurethane sealer? Have I got the right idea here? What products to use?
Daniel _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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participants (11)
-
Andrei Caldararu -
Bob Eeg -
Conbert Benneck -
Daniel Rich -
George Burmeyer -
Gordon Gilbert -
Joe Murphy -
John Tyner -
Ken Wheeler -
Louis Remmers -
W David Scobie