Thanks Tom, This sounds totally doable as DIY. Someone just posted about how the up-down line works also. Would be great if someone has pictures of one of the original sliding-rod rudders though, for details. Also, since I have the early balanced rudder...I'd need a non-balanced blade to do this with. Same tiller should be fine, I assume? If anyone here has all or part of a slide-up for sale, including just the blade, let me know. I really like the design because a kick-up rudder becomes a lousy rudder helm-wise when kicked up even a little - out of balance, if one needs to still sail with it partly up. But the slider would seem to be way better with that - less effective the more it comes up, but at least still more in balance. cheers, John S. On 01/21/2016 07:39 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
As concerns your rudder, you already have gudgeons on your transom, look for after market gudgeons that will mount on a rudder. Or have them fabricated. Websites like Discount Steel or Metals Depot have stainless steel rod for sale by the foot. Or you might have a local dealer. It would be a simple matter of installing gudgeons both places and buying three feet of ss rod to use as the pin. I had a "beaching rudder" on my first Monty built in 74 and it was a very handy rig. Add the kickup feature and you will have the best of all worlds. Tom B
... -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John, I told Jazzy how to rig his slide up rudder since I had one on my first Monty 17 back in '83. He has the slightly newer model of rudder which is not balanced at all. Maybe Jerry can put you onto a source of his mahogany rudders. Any of them can be made into a lifting rudder with a set of gudgeons what will fit on the rudder since the first set of the two sets necessary is already on the transom. I never sailed with the lifting rudder partially up but unless you are racing all out I doubt the slight loss of lateral resistance by raising the 10 inch wide rudder a few inches would be noticeable. Then too with the rudder a few inches above normal sailing setup might interfere with other elements of the rig. Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 2:29 AM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Thanks Tom, This sounds totally doable as DIY. Someone just posted about how the up-down line works also.
Would be great if someone has pictures of one of the original sliding-rod rudders though, for details.
Also, since I have the early balanced rudder...I'd need a non-balanced blade to do this with. Same tiller should be fine, I assume?
If anyone here has all or part of a slide-up for sale, including just the blade, let me know.
I really like the design because a kick-up rudder becomes a lousy rudder helm-wise when kicked up even a little - out of balance, if one needs to still sail with it partly up. But the slider would seem to be way better with that - less effective the more it comes up, but at least still more in balance.
cheers, John S.
On 01/21/2016 07:39 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
As concerns your rudder, you already have gudgeons on your transom, look for after market gudgeons that will mount on a rudder. Or have them fabricated. Websites like Discount Steel or Metals Depot have stainless steel rod for sale by the foot. Or you might have a local dealer. It would be a simple matter of installing gudgeons both places and buying three feet of ss rod to use as the pin. I had a "beaching rudder" on my first Monty built in 74 and it was a very handy rig. Add the kickup feature and you will have the best of all worlds. Tom B
... -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John Owens of JOwoodworks can make a rudder per Jerry's specs. :: Dave Scobie On Jan 22, 2016 9:59 AM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
John, I told Jazzy how to rig his slide up rudder since I had one on my first Monty 17 back in '83. He has the slightly newer model of rudder which is not balanced at all. Maybe Jerry can put you onto a source of his mahogany rudders. Any of them can be made into a lifting rudder with a set of gudgeons what will fit on the rudder since the first set of the two sets necessary is already on the transom. I never sailed with the lifting rudder partially up but unless you are racing all out I doubt the slight loss of lateral resistance by raising the 10 inch wide rudder a few inches would be noticeable. Then too with the rudder a few inches above normal sailing setup might interfere with other elements of the rig. Tom B < https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaig...
This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com < https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaig...
<#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 2:29 AM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Thanks Tom, This sounds totally doable as DIY. Someone just posted about how the up-down line works also.
Would be great if someone has pictures of one of the original sliding-rod rudders though, for details.
Also, since I have the early balanced rudder...I'd need a non-balanced blade to do this with. Same tiller should be fine, I assume?
If anyone here has all or part of a slide-up for sale, including just the blade, let me know.
I really like the design because a kick-up rudder becomes a lousy rudder helm-wise when kicked up even a little - out of balance, if one needs to still sail with it partly up. But the slider would seem to be way better with that - less effective the more it comes up, but at least still more in balance.
cheers, John S.
On 01/21/2016 07:39 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
As concerns your rudder, you already have gudgeons on your transom, look for after market gudgeons that will mount on a rudder. Or have them fabricated. Websites like Discount Steel or Metals Depot have stainless steel rod for sale by the foot. Or you might have a local dealer. It would be a simple matter of installing gudgeons both places and buying three feet of ss rod to use as the pin. I had a "beaching rudder" on my first Monty built in 74 and it was a very handy rig. Add the kickup feature and you will have the best of all worlds. Tom B
... -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I have sailed my M17 with the lifting rudder (and the centerboard) all the way up and have been pleasantly surprised. Sure, there is more sideslip, you can't point as high and you have to reef sooner but, as long as you're not racing, the fun-factor is pretty much the same. I worried that having the tiller roughly 1 foot higher would feel awkward, but that was not the case. The raised rudder/tiller do not interfere with the stock rig at all. The o.e. mahogany rudder that came with my boat was pretty beat up, so I made a close copy out of marine plywood covered with fiberglass and epoxy. I already had some experience shaping foils for a stitch-and-tape dinghy I built so, for me, it was a pretty straightforward DIY project. Be aware that the lifting rudder can be a fussy arrangement. It doesn't take much of a grounding to bend the rod. Once that happens, it becomes very difficult, if not impossible, to put the rudder up or down. Plan on fabricating two rods and carrying one as a spare. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 9:58:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Ida Rudder John, I told Jazzy how to rig his slide up rudder since I had one on my first Monty 17 back in '83. He has the slightly newer model of rudder which is not balanced at all. Maybe Jerry can put you onto a source of his mahogany rudders. Any of them can be made into a lifting rudder with a set of gudgeons what will fit on the rudder since the first set of the two sets necessary is already on the transom. I never sailed with the lifting rudder partially up but unless you are racing all out I doubt the slight loss of lateral resistance by raising the 10 inch wide rudder a few inches would be noticeable. Then too with the rudder a few inches above normal sailing setup might interfere with other elements of the rig. Tom B <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 2:29 AM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Thanks Tom, This sounds totally doable as DIY. Someone just posted about how the up-down line works also.
Would be great if someone has pictures of one of the original sliding-rod rudders though, for details.
Also, since I have the early balanced rudder...I'd need a non-balanced blade to do this with. Same tiller should be fine, I assume?
If anyone here has all or part of a slide-up for sale, including just the blade, let me know.
I really like the design because a kick-up rudder becomes a lousy rudder helm-wise when kicked up even a little - out of balance, if one needs to still sail with it partly up. But the slider would seem to be way better with that - less effective the more it comes up, but at least still more in balance.
cheers, John S.
On 01/21/2016 07:39 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
As concerns your rudder, you already have gudgeons on your transom, look for after market gudgeons that will mount on a rudder. Or have them fabricated. Websites like Discount Steel or Metals Depot have stainless steel rod for sale by the foot. Or you might have a local dealer. It would be a simple matter of installing gudgeons both places and buying three feet of ss rod to use as the pin. I had a "beaching rudder" on my first Monty built in 74 and it was a very handy rig. Add the kickup feature and you will have the best of all worlds. Tom B
... -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (4)
-
Dave Scobie -
John Schinnerer -
swwheatley＠comcast.net -
Thomas Buzzi