Hey, everyone. I have already learned the art of hating my outboard(a Tohatsu 2.5 that Dik Lang assures me will run fine if taken good care of.) I am sure many of you know my pain. LOL I am ready to forgo the whole outboard and go motorless like the Pardeys(whom I was fortunate enough to sail with, for about 15 minutes, a story for another time.) My question for you is, have any of you relied on alternative sources of propulsion, and what have been your successes(and failures.) I am thinking oars(standing facing forward) for the M-15. What about a single paddle with the tiller tied off? This is mostly for getting in and out of the marina, not for long distance. I am looking forward to hearing your suggestions! -Rusty Knorr M-15 ===== "In a power boat you may get there faster, but in a sailboat you are already there." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/
Rusty, There is an article in the How-to section of the MSOG site on sculling oars for the Montys. Go to http://msog.org/how-to/oars.cfm to see the article, and go to the Small Boat Journal articles on the subject at http://councill.home.mindspring.com/sbjournal/sbjournal.html Also a couple of sites listed in the MSOG Links list for sculling and oars site, notably, http://www.oarclub.org/index.html Gee, that MSOG site has just about everything! Doug At 05:46 PM 10/26/03 -0800, you wrote:
Hey, everyone. I have already learned the art of hating my outboard(a Tohatsu 2.5 that Dik Lang assures me will run fine if taken good care of.) I am sure many of you know my pain. LOL I am ready to forgo the whole outboard and go motorless like the Pardeys(whom I was fortunate enough to sail with, for about 15 minutes, a story for another time.) My question for you is, have any of you relied on alternative sources of propulsion, and what have been your successes(and failures.) I am thinking oars(standing facing forward) for the M-15. What about a single paddle with the tiller tied off? This is mostly for getting in and out of the marina, not for long distance. I am looking forward to hearing your suggestions!
-Rusty Knorr M-15
===== "In a power boat you may get there faster, but in a sailboat you are already there."
__________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/
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------------------------------------------ Doug King M-17 #404 "Vixen" Montgomery Sailboats Owners Group Web site: http://msog.org Email: mailto:msog@msog.org
I've been lurking on the list, for some time, enjoying the questions and answers, and especially the friendliness and helpful attitudes. I thought I'd drop in and mention how easy it is to scull the '15' with its rudder. By rhythmically flipping the rudder from side to side, it's very easy to propel the boat forward. I discovered this the very first time I took my boat out, which happened to be in the San Juaquin delta. My 2 horse Honda died just as I left the marina and entered the main channel. The current immediately caught me and was carrying me toward a low bridge and I didn't have time to get the sails up. Out of desperation, I started pumping the tiller back and forth and, lo and behold, I started moving against the current. I sculled the boat about a quarter mile against a slow but relentless current and got back into the marina. At that point, without the current, I probably could have pulled a skier or two. Fear does that to a person. Since then, I often maneuver into and out of slips and away from docks using this rudder sculling technique. To move forward just flip the tiller rapidly from side to side and as far as possible each way, with a very slight hesitation at the end of each stroke. To turn to port, flip the rudder rapidly to the port side and return it slowly to the the starboard side and repeat. You'll be able to turn the boat almost on a dime. I discovered that first day of sailing my "15" that I hadn't opened the gas valve on the outboard, and it died as soon as it consumed the thimbleful of gas in the carb. Now, that's on my checklist of pre-launch tasks. Also, that day, I realized how easy it would be to lose the gas cap on the Honda motor. Fortunately, I didn't lose it, but I figured I had better do something before I did. I bought a plastic spring loaded clip (like you would use for clipping papers or a small towel on the wall) and attached it with double sided tape to the motor case. When you remove the gas cap, you just clip it to the motor with the clip and it stays put. Later, I got a more substantial clip and mounted it with screws, but the original one lasted two years or so. We're Bill and Gigi Day and we bought our boat new in 1986. It's number 363, but we've never named it. We jokingly call it "das boot", but don't really want that as an official name. After reading this list and seeing all the clever boat names, I've decided that I must soon name the boat lest it develop a complex. When we settle on something, the list will be the first to know. We sailed mostly in the delta, San Francisco Bay and many northern California lakes. We enjoyed camping on the boat or guesting in marinas and yacht clubs. We belonged to the Potter Yachters, and also the Lakeville Yacht Club. About 6 years ago, we moved to Houston, Missouri. If you can find Houston on a map (it's only half a dot, and one of those places Rand doesn't even tell McNally about), you'll see that it's the farthest place in Missouri from any body of water. We can drive a couple of hours, though, and be at some pretty nice lakes. Most of the lake traffic is power boats, and as a sail boat, we're pretty much a novelty. I don't know how many times I've been asked what makes it go, and how can it sail into the wind. When I explain, I usually get, "Whooeee! What won't they think of next!" I'll look forward to participating in the discussions on the list. In my years of sailing the '15' I've made every mistake possible (repeating some two or three times), so I'm a treasure trove of bad experience. In a future message (this one's already too long) I'll relate my adventure of picking my boat up at the factory. It's one of those events that wasn't too much fun at the time, but is funny to look back on. Bill & Gigi Day
Hi Bill Enjoyed your account of rudder sculling your Monty 15. Might be intresting to you to know I too have used this technique on occasion on my M17 & it does work, however as the weight of a boat goes up the effect goes down proportianally. I have even used it on my previous boat a Hunter 23 which weigs in at #2500 . Regards Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill & Gigi Day" <billgigi@train.missouri.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 9:56 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: C'mon, join the Pardey!
I've been lurking on the list, for some time, enjoying the questions and answers, and especially the friendliness and helpful attitudes.
I thought I'd drop in and mention how easy it is to scull the '15' with its rudder. By rhythmically flipping the rudder from side to side, it's very easy to propel the boat forward. I discovered this the very first time I took my boat out, which happened to be in the San Juaquin delta. My 2 horse Honda died just as I left the marina and entered the main channel. The current immediately caught me and was carrying me toward a low bridge and I didn't have time to get the sails up. Out of desperation, I started pumping the tiller back and forth and, lo and behold, I started moving against the current. I sculled the boat about a quarter mile against a slow but relentless current and got back into the marina. At that point, without the current, I probably could have pulled a skier or two. Fear does that to a person.
Since then, I often maneuver into and out of slips and away from docks using this rudder sculling technique. To move forward just flip the tiller rapidly from side to side and as far as possible each way, with a very slight hesitation at the end of each stroke. To turn to port, flip the rudder rapidly to the port side and return it slowly to the the starboard side and repeat. You'll be able to turn the boat almost on a dime.
I discovered that first day of sailing my "15" that I hadn't opened the gas valve on the outboard, and it died as soon as it consumed the thimbleful of gas in the carb. Now, that's on my checklist of pre-launch tasks. Also, that day, I realized how easy it would be to lose the gas cap on the Honda motor. Fortunately, I didn't lose it, but I figured I had better do something before I did. I bought a plastic spring loaded clip (like you would use for clipping papers or a small towel on the wall) and attached it with double sided tape to the motor case. When you remove the gas cap, you just clip it to the motor with the clip and it stays put. Later, I got a more substantial clip and mounted it with screws, but the original one lasted two years or so.
We're Bill and Gigi Day and we bought our boat new in 1986. It's number 363, but we've never named it. We jokingly call it "das boot", but don't really want that as an official name. After reading this list and seeing all the clever boat names, I've decided that I must soon name the boat lest it develop a complex. When we settle on something, the list will be the first to know.
We sailed mostly in the delta, San Francisco Bay and many northern California lakes. We enjoyed camping on the boat or guesting in marinas and yacht clubs. We belonged to the Potter Yachters, and also the Lakeville Yacht Club.
About 6 years ago, we moved to Houston, Missouri. If you can find Houston on a map (it's only half a dot, and one of those places Rand doesn't even tell McNally about), you'll see that it's the farthest place in Missouri from any body of water. We can drive a couple of hours, though, and be at some pretty nice lakes. Most of the lake traffic is power boats, and as a sail boat, we're pretty much a novelty. I don't know how many times I've been asked what makes it go, and how can it sail into the wind. When I explain, I usually get, "Whooeee! What won't they think of next!"
I'll look forward to participating in the discussions on the list. In my years of sailing the '15' I've made every mistake possible (repeating some two or three times), so I'm a treasure trove of bad experience. In a future message (this one's already too long) I'll relate my adventure of picking my boat up at the factory. It's one of those events that wasn't too much fun at the time, but is funny to look back on.
Bill & Gigi Day
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Wouldn't this be really hard on the rudder gudgeons and pintles as well as the pivoting rudder points? I am going to try to "paddle" my M-15 this weekend with a long canoe paddle and the rudder tied off. I have a short channel(about 30 yards) out of the marina with about 6 or 8 seaplane wings sticking out into the channel. Very narrow clearance but I think I can make it. Wish me luck! -Rusty --- wayne yeargain <wayne@ev1.net> wrote:
Hi Bill Enjoyed your account of rudder sculling your Monty 15. Might be intresting to you to know I too have used this technique on occasion on my M17 & it does work, however as the weight of a boat goes up the effect goes down proportianally. I have even used it on my previous boat a Hunter 23 which weigs in at #2500 . Regards
Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill & Gigi Day" <billgigi@train.missouri.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 9:56 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: C'mon, join the Pardey!
I've been lurking on the list, for some time, enjoying the questions and answers, and especially the friendliness and helpful attitudes.
I thought I'd drop in and mention how easy it is to scull the '15' with its rudder. By rhythmically flipping the rudder from side to side, it's very easy to propel the boat forward. I discovered this the very first time I took my boat out, which happened to be in the San Juaquin delta. My 2 horse Honda died just as I left the marina and entered the main channel. The current immediately caught me and was carrying me toward a low bridge and I didn't have time to get the sails up. Out of desperation, I started pumping the tiller back and forth and, lo and behold, I started moving against the current. I sculled the boat about a quarter mile against a slow but relentless current and got back into the marina. At that point, without the current, I probably could have pulled a skier or two. Fear does that to a person.
Since then, I often maneuver into and out of slips and away from docks using this rudder sculling technique. To move forward just flip the tiller rapidly from side to side and as far as possible each way, with a very slight hesitation at the end of each stroke. To turn to port, flip the rudder rapidly to the port side and return it slowly to the the starboard side and repeat. You'll be able to turn the boat almost on a dime.
I discovered that first day of sailing my "15" that I hadn't opened the gas valve on the outboard, and it died as soon as it consumed the thimbleful of gas in the carb. Now, that's on my checklist of pre-launch tasks. Also, that day, I realized how easy it would be to lose the gas cap on the Honda motor. Fortunately, I didn't lose it, but I figured I had better do something before I did. I bought a plastic spring loaded clip (like you would use for clipping papers or a small towel on the wall) and attached it with double sided tape to the motor case. When you remove the gas cap, you just clip it to the motor with the clip and it stays put. Later, I got a more substantial clip and mounted it with screws, but the original one lasted two years or so.
We're Bill and Gigi Day and we bought our boat new in 1986. It's number 363, but we've never named it. We jokingly call it "das boot", but don't really want that as an official name. After reading this list and seeing all the clever boat names, I've decided that I must soon name the boat lest it develop a complex. When we settle on something, the list will be the first to know.
We sailed mostly in the delta, San Francisco Bay and many northern California lakes. We enjoyed camping on the boat or guesting in marinas and yacht clubs. We belonged to the Potter Yachters, and also the Lakeville Yacht Club.
About 6 years ago, we moved to Houston, Missouri. If you can find Houston on a map (it's only half a dot, and one of those places Rand doesn't even tell McNally about), you'll see that it's the farthest place in Missouri from any body of water. We can drive a couple of hours, though, and be at some pretty nice lakes. Most of the lake traffic is power boats, and as a sail boat, we're pretty much a novelty. I don't know how many times I've been asked what makes it go, and how can it sail into the wind. When I explain, I usually get, "Whooeee! What won't they think of next!"
I'll look forward to participating in the discussions on the list. In my years of sailing the '15' I've made every mistake possible (repeating some two or three times), so I'm a treasure trove of bad experience. In a future message (this one's already too long) I'll relate my adventure of picking my boat up at the factory. It's one of those events that wasn't too much fun at the time, but is funny to look back on.
Bill & Gigi Day
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats ===== "In a power boat you may get there faster, but in a sailboat you are already there." __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/
I'm not sure Lin and Larry are the best example to use when discussing the feasibility of sailing the Montgomerys engineless . . . After all, the PARDEYS exclusively sail boats designed by Lyle He . . . Oh!
I don't think sculling with the rudder is any harder on the rudder and its fittings than normal wave action would be. Also, this wouldn't be used as a normal, long range method of propulsion. Other than some sort of emergency, I would only use it for docking or short moves within a marina or launch ramp area. If, for example, you cut your motor as you approach the dock and don't quite make the dock, it's easy just to use the rudder to scull the last few feet to the dock. The main advantage is; there is nothing to rig; there's nothing to stow; it's always ready to use; and you can do it from your normal operating position. The other advantage is never hearing, "Look Mommy. That man's trying to row a sailboat." The solution to long range propulsion, when the wind dies and your motor quits, is Boat US tow service, and all you need is a marine radio. Seriously Risty, for your task of traveling 30 yards through a narrow channel, I would go with a cheap electric trolling motor. It would be easy to mount, wouldn't use much battery capacity, and would be instantly available when you need it. You could also keep powering away from the marina as you rig your sails, rather than racing to put the oars away and hope you don't drift back toward the sea plane wings. Good luck, whatever you try, Bill Day Rusty Knorr wrote:
Wouldn't this be really hard on the rudder gudgeons and pintles as well as the pivoting rudder points? I am going to try to "paddle" my M-15 this weekend with a long canoe paddle and the rudder tied off. I have a short channel(about 30 yards) out of the marina with about 6 or 8 seaplane wings sticking out into the channel. Very narrow clearance but I think I can make it. Wish me luck!
-Rusty
participants (5)
-
Bill & Gigi Day -
Doug King -
Honshells -
Rusty Knorr -
wayne yeargain