What are you skippiers using to get to shore when anchoring? Looking for inflatable Thanks Capt Jim SV Pelican Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
Hi Jim, I dont know where you are located, but im in California, and i have an inflatable dinghy, in excellent condition that im selling.it was only used a couple of times. It's perfect for using with my Montgomery 15 as a shore boat. Thanks, Paul Baker On Sat, Oct 14, 2023, 7:16 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
What are you skippiers using to get to shore when anchoring? Looking for inflatable Thanks Capt Jim SV Pelican
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
An inflatable SUP (stand up paddleboard) works great for me. I am also in the process of building a WoodenWidget Origami, which is a 6 foot folding dinghy that sets up in 1 minute, and can store flat on the V berth. Sincerely, Tyler -----Original Message----- From: Jim <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: For <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Saturday, 14 October 2023 7:16 PM PDT Subject: M_Boats: Inflatable dingy for M15 What are you skippiers using to get to shore when anchoring? Looking for inflatable Thanks Capt Jim SV Pelican Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
Thanks Skipper I am very interest in the Origami . All I need is to get to shore after anchoring. And not use any storage space. Will you be selling the Origami? Or the plans? Capt Jim SV Pelican -----Original Message----- From: casioqv@usermail.com <casioqv@usermail.com> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2023 5:31 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15 An inflatable SUP (stand up paddleboard) works great for me. I am also in the process of building a WoodenWidget Origami, which is a 6 foot folding dinghy that sets up in 1 minute, and can store flat on the V berth. Sincerely, Tyler -----Original Message----- From: Jim <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: For <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Saturday, 14 October 2023 7:16 PM PDT Subject: M_Boats: Inflatable dingy for M15 What are you skippiers using to get to shore when anchoring? Looking for inflatable Thanks Capt Jim SV Pelican Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
I'm also planning to build a slightly modified Origami. Have the wood, need to get the fabric, and just haven't made the time yet. Plans here from the designer's site: https://woodenwidget.com/origami.htm There's a bunch of pics of different people's builds there also. Or you can get plans via Duckworks (6 ft and 8 ft respectively): https://duckworks.com/origami-6-plans/ https://duckworks.com/origami-8-plans/ His "Fliptail" design is more aesthetically appealing, but is over twice as thick when folded (10" vs. 4" according to specs). I asked him a few questions about pros and cons of the two designs; he wrote me that both row and sail OK, and, the Origami rows better, and the Fliptail sails better. cheers, John On 10/15/23 07:49, Jim Sadler wrote:
Thanks Skipper I am very interest in the Origami . All I need is to get to shore after anchoring. And not use any storage space. Will you be selling the Origami? Or the plans? Capt Jim SV Pelican
-----Original Message----- From: casioqv@usermail.com <casioqv@usermail.com> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2023 5:31 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15
An inflatable SUP (stand up paddleboard) works great for me. I am also in the process of building a WoodenWidget Origami, which is a 6 foot folding dinghy that sets up in 1 minute, and can store flat on the V berth.
Sincerely, Tyler
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: For <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Saturday, 14 October 2023 7:16 PM PDT Subject: M_Boats: Inflatable dingy for M15
What are you skippiers using to get to shore when anchoring? Looking for inflatable Thanks Capt Jim SV Pelican
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I tried out one of the drop-stitched kayaks (31" wide, 13'5" long) on a trip from Bellingham to the San Juans and back this summer. I was really happy with it. It didn't slow the boat down like a bigger boat would, didn't flip over and cause trouble like the canoe that one of the other members of the group brought, and was pretty nice for paddling around and exploring. I did have trouble with it racing down the waves and running into the back of the boat when coming into Bellingham Bay under strong winds, but it is lightweight enough that I was able to tie it up tight to one of the back cleats and keep it out of trouble. It doesn't fold up as small as a SUP, but will fit inside of the M15 v-berth, leaving enough room for a person to sleep, and I think it's quite a bit better for adventuring in. Sam M15 #272 [image: image.png] On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 11:46 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'm also planning to build a slightly modified Origami. Have the wood, need to get the fabric, and just haven't made the time yet.
Plans here from the designer's site: https://woodenwidget.com/origami.htm There's a bunch of pics of different people's builds there also.
Or you can get plans via Duckworks (6 ft and 8 ft respectively): https://duckworks.com/origami-6-plans/ https://duckworks.com/origami-8-plans/
His "Fliptail" design is more aesthetically appealing, but is over twice as thick when folded (10" vs. 4" according to specs).
I asked him a few questions about pros and cons of the two designs; he wrote me that both row and sail OK, and, the Origami rows better, and the Fliptail sails better.
cheers, John
On 10/15/23 07:49, Jim Sadler wrote:
Thanks Skipper I am very interest in the Origami . All I need is to get to shore after anchoring. And not use any storage space. Will you be selling the Origami? Or the plans? Capt Jim SV Pelican
-----Original Message----- From: casioqv@usermail.com <casioqv@usermail.com> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2023 5:31 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15
An inflatable SUP (stand up paddleboard) works great for me. I am also in the process of building a WoodenWidget Origami, which is a 6 foot folding dinghy that sets up in 1 minute, and can store flat on the V berth.
Sincerely, Tyler
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: For <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Saturday, 14 October 2023 7:16 PM PDT Subject: M_Boats: Inflatable dingy for M15
What are you skippiers using to get to shore when anchoring? Looking for inflatable Thanks Capt Jim SV Pelican
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Yes, I also didn't mention that my main dinghy is actually a Sea Eagle 465ft dropstitch inflatable kayak. I love it because it is extremely stable and seaworthy, and can carry 3 adults. Dropstitch tech is amazing, it basically makes a hard kayak that is still inflatable. I didn't mention it in the M15 context because the 465ft basically took up the entire cabin on my M15 when deflated. It did work for me, but isn't really ideal to carry something that large. Jim- no I am not planning on selling my Origami, but it is a pretty straightforward project if you want to buy the plans and build it yourself. I will post photos when I am done... I am building it from redwood with mahogany marine plywood. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam" <shunter@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2023 11:09:24 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15 I tried out one of the drop-stitched kayaks (31" wide, 13'5" long) on a trip from Bellingham to the San Juans and back this summer. I was really happy with it. It didn't slow the boat down like a bigger boat would, didn't flip over and cause trouble like the canoe that one of the other members of the group brought, and was pretty nice for paddling around and exploring. I did have trouble with it racing down the waves and running into the back of the boat when coming into Bellingham Bay under strong winds, but it is lightweight enough that I was able to tie it up tight to one of the back cleats and keep it out of trouble. It doesn't fold up as small as a SUP, but will fit inside of the M15 v-berth, leaving enough room for a person to sleep, and I think it's quite a bit better for adventuring in. Sam M15 #272 [image: image.png] On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 11:46 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'm also planning to build a slightly modified Origami. Have the wood, need to get the fabric, and just haven't made the time yet.
Plans here from the designer's site: https://woodenwidget.com/origami.htm There's a bunch of pics of different people's builds there also.
Or you can get plans via Duckworks (6 ft and 8 ft respectively): https://duckworks.com/origami-6-plans/ https://duckworks.com/origami-8-plans/
His "Fliptail" design is more aesthetically appealing, but is over twice as thick when folded (10" vs. 4" according to specs).
I asked him a few questions about pros and cons of the two designs; he wrote me that both row and sail OK, and, the Origami rows better, and the Fliptail sails better.
cheers, John
On 10/15/23 07:49, Jim Sadler wrote:
Thanks Skipper I am very interest in the Origami . All I need is to get to shore after anchoring. And not use any storage space. Will you be selling the Origami? Or the plans? Capt Jim SV Pelican
-----Original Message----- From: casioqv@usermail.com <casioqv@usermail.com> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2023 5:31 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15
An inflatable SUP (stand up paddleboard) works great for me. I am also in the process of building a WoodenWidget Origami, which is a 6 foot folding dinghy that sets up in 1 minute, and can store flat on the V berth.
Sincerely, Tyler
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: For <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Saturday, 14 October 2023 7:16 PM PDT Subject: M_Boats: Inflatable dingy for M15
What are you skippiers using to get to shore when anchoring? Looking for inflatable Thanks Capt Jim SV Pelican
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Hello folks. Yeah a dinghy for a small boat is a challenge. When I had a M15 'thought' I needed a dinghy and went for a year without. Never had an issue as could always find dock space, joys of a small boat, if needed to go on-land. i did get an small inflatable dinghy. Was a doughnut shaped thing and found to be WORTHLESS! Couldn't row against any wind, terrible against current, (its lack of rowing ability actually made it dangerous) couldn't easily store on the foredeck, couldn't be towed (was so poorly shaped would put up a wall of water at its 'bow' being a sea anchor and would likely rip itself apart, and deflated it took up 80% of the vberth ... and also brought in a bunch of water making the cabin/berth wet!!! Used it on one cruise (only two times and then for the remainder of the trip didn't reinflate. Got ride of it on craigslist. For the M17, Sage 17 and Sage 15/SageCat didn't use a dinghy for over 10 years. Again never had an issue as was always able to find dock space - even used the dinghy dock a few times as these days a boat less then 20' is shorted the 1/3rd of the powered rib 'dinghies'. Those times I was on non-tidal waters I just anchored close to shore and waded to land. IMO get a small kayak. IMO folding is problematic as it still is HUGE to put below. IMO just expect to tow the kayak at all times. Another option is a small hard-side dinghy, like a Montgomery 6'8" or similar. I got a 6'8" that I used for a short time with my M17 - found a great price on the dinghy and was also looking for a larger boat to have a more comfortable live-aboard experience (17' is really small for living aboard through the PNW Fall/Winter/Spring). The M6'8" looks great, rows and sails well, and tows just fine. I never expected to put the dingy on the foredeck. :: Dave Scobie :: SV SWALLOW - https://sailboatsallow.wordpress.com :: Montgomery 6'8" #650 :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M17 owner #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com/> :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 11:08 AM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
Yes, I also didn't mention that my main dinghy is actually a Sea Eagle 465ft dropstitch inflatable kayak. I love it because it is extremely stable and seaworthy, and can carry 3 adults. Dropstitch tech is amazing, it basically makes a hard kayak that is still inflatable.
I didn't mention it in the M15 context because the 465ft basically took up the entire cabin on my M15 when deflated. It did work for me, but isn't really ideal to carry something that large.
Jim- no I am not planning on selling my Origami, but it is a pretty straightforward project if you want to buy the plans and build it yourself. I will post photos when I am done... I am building it from redwood with mahogany marine plywood.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam" <shunter@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2023 11:09:24 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15
I tried out one of the drop-stitched kayaks (31" wide, 13'5" long) on a trip from Bellingham to the San Juans and back this summer. I was really happy with it. It didn't slow the boat down like a bigger boat would, didn't flip over and cause trouble like the canoe that one of the other members of the group brought, and was pretty nice for paddling around and exploring. I did have trouble with it racing down the waves and running into the back of the boat when coming into Bellingham Bay under strong winds, but it is lightweight enough that I was able to tie it up tight to one of the back cleats and keep it out of trouble. It doesn't fold up as small as a SUP, but will fit inside of the M15 v-berth, leaving enough room for a person to sleep, and I think it's quite a bit better for adventuring in.
Sam
M15 #272
[image: image.png]
On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 11:46 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'm also planning to build a slightly modified Origami. Have the wood, need to get the fabric, and just haven't made the time yet.
Plans here from the designer's site: https://woodenwidget.com/origami.htm There's a bunch of pics of different people's builds there also.
Or you can get plans via Duckworks (6 ft and 8 ft respectively): https://duckworks.com/origami-6-plans/ https://duckworks.com/origami-8-plans/
His "Fliptail" design is more aesthetically appealing, but is over twice as thick when folded (10" vs. 4" according to specs).
I asked him a few questions about pros and cons of the two designs; he wrote me that both row and sail OK, and, the Origami rows better, and the Fliptail sails better.
cheers, John
On 10/15/23 07:49, Jim Sadler wrote:
Thanks Skipper I am very interest in the Origami . All I need is to get to shore after anchoring. And not use any storage space. Will you be selling the Origami? Or the plans? Capt Jim SV Pelican
-----Original Message----- From: casioqv@usermail.com <casioqv@usermail.com> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2023 5:31 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15
An inflatable SUP (stand up paddleboard) works great for me. I am also in the process of building a WoodenWidget Origami, which is a 6 foot folding dinghy that sets up in 1 minute, and can store flat on the V berth.
Sincerely, Tyler
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: For <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Saturday, 14 October 2023 7:16 PM PDT Subject: M_Boats: Inflatable dingy for M15
What are you skippiers using to get to shore when anchoring? Looking for inflatable Thanks Capt Jim SV Pelican
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Man, I had the absolute worst experience towing a hard dink with my M15 on the first Salish100, I will never do that again! I do have an Avon Redcrest that came with my new M15 that I thought I might tow on the next S100, but…Dave’s comments give me second thoughts. Probably will go without like on the last one. David Young tows an inflatable on his M17, Tramontana with no issues, so it’s tempting to try it. Dave, if you were to pull it in close enough to slightly raise the front and get it out of the waves to minimize drag, would that improve things? www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Oct 18, 2023, at 11:29 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello folks.
Yeah a dinghy for a small boat is a challenge. When I had a M15 'thought' I needed a dinghy and went for a year without. Never had an issue as could always find dock space, joys of a small boat, if needed to go on-land. i did get an small inflatable dinghy. Was a doughnut shaped thing and found to be WORTHLESS! Couldn't row against any wind, terrible against current, (its lack of rowing ability actually made it dangerous) couldn't easily store on the foredeck, couldn't be towed (was so poorly shaped would put up a wall of water at its 'bow' being a sea anchor and would likely rip itself apart, and deflated it took up 80% of the vberth ... and also brought in a bunch of water making the cabin/berth wet!!! Used it on one cruise (only two times and then for the remainder of the trip didn't reinflate. Got ride of it on craigslist.
For the M17, Sage 17 and Sage 15/SageCat didn't use a dinghy for over 10 years. Again never had an issue as was always able to find dock space - even used the dinghy dock a few times as these days a boat less then 20' is shorted the 1/3rd of the powered rib 'dinghies'. Those times I was on non-tidal waters I just anchored close to shore and waded to land.
IMO get a small kayak. IMO folding is problematic as it still is HUGE to put below. IMO just expect to tow the kayak at all times.
Another option is a small hard-side dinghy, like a Montgomery 6'8" or similar. I got a 6'8" that I used for a short time with my M17 - found a great price on the dinghy and was also looking for a larger boat to have a more comfortable live-aboard experience (17' is really small for living aboard through the PNW Fall/Winter/Spring). The M6'8" looks great, rows and sails well, and tows just fine. I never expected to put the dingy on the foredeck.
:: Dave Scobie :: SV SWALLOW - https://sailboatsallow.wordpress.com :: Montgomery 6'8" #650 :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M17 owner #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com/> :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred
On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 11:08 AM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
Yes, I also didn't mention that my main dinghy is actually a Sea Eagle 465ft dropstitch inflatable kayak. I love it because it is extremely stable and seaworthy, and can carry 3 adults. Dropstitch tech is amazing, it basically makes a hard kayak that is still inflatable.
I didn't mention it in the M15 context because the 465ft basically took up the entire cabin on my M15 when deflated. It did work for me, but isn't really ideal to carry something that large.
Jim- no I am not planning on selling my Origami, but it is a pretty straightforward project if you want to buy the plans and build it yourself. I will post photos when I am done... I am building it from redwood with mahogany marine plywood.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam" <shunter@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2023 11:09:24 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15
I tried out one of the drop-stitched kayaks (31" wide, 13'5" long) on a trip from Bellingham to the San Juans and back this summer. I was really happy with it. It didn't slow the boat down like a bigger boat would, didn't flip over and cause trouble like the canoe that one of the other members of the group brought, and was pretty nice for paddling around and exploring. I did have trouble with it racing down the waves and running into the back of the boat when coming into Bellingham Bay under strong winds, but it is lightweight enough that I was able to tie it up tight to one of the back cleats and keep it out of trouble. It doesn't fold up as small as a SUP, but will fit inside of the M15 v-berth, leaving enough room for a person to sleep, and I think it's quite a bit better for adventuring in.
Sam
M15 #272
[image: image.png]
On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 11:46 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'm also planning to build a slightly modified Origami. Have the wood, need to get the fabric, and just haven't made the time yet.
Plans here from the designer's site: https://woodenwidget.com/origami.htm There's a bunch of pics of different people's builds there also.
Or you can get plans via Duckworks (6 ft and 8 ft respectively): https://duckworks.com/origami-6-plans/ https://duckworks.com/origami-8-plans/
His "Fliptail" design is more aesthetically appealing, but is over twice as thick when folded (10" vs. 4" according to specs).
I asked him a few questions about pros and cons of the two designs; he wrote me that both row and sail OK, and, the Origami rows better, and the Fliptail sails better.
cheers, John
On 10/15/23 07:49, Jim Sadler wrote:
Thanks Skipper I am very interest in the Origami . All I need is to get to shore after anchoring. And not use any storage space. Will you be selling the Origami? Or the plans? Capt Jim SV Pelican
-----Original Message----- From: casioqv@usermail.com <casioqv@usermail.com> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2023 5:31 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15
An inflatable SUP (stand up paddleboard) works great for me. I am also in the process of building a WoodenWidget Origami, which is a 6 foot folding dinghy that sets up in 1 minute, and can store flat on the V berth.
Sincerely, Tyler
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: For <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Saturday, 14 October 2023 7:16 PM PDT Subject: M_Boats: Inflatable dingy for M15
What are you skippiers using to get to shore when anchoring? Looking for inflatable Thanks Capt Jim SV Pelican
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I've also had a really really bad experience towing a kayak behind an M15 on SF Bay, when the weather picked up and I was surfing down breaking waves. The kayak wanted to accelerate down the waves and ram the boat, and then would try to flip or swamp. Tying it close caused it to want to flip, and fill with water. I was single handing, and couldn't leave the tiller to try different solutions, so ended up steering with one hand while stabilizing the kayak with the other for a very long time. I will never again tow a dinghy of any kind behind a sailboat unless I am in very protected water like a small windless lake. Especially since there are so many options for dinghies that can store aboard an M boat. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "Rusty Knorr" <rustyinafrica@yahoo.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 12:23:02 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15 Man, I had the absolute worst experience towing a hard dink with my M15 on the first Salish100, I will never do that again! I do have an Avon Redcrest that came with my new M15 that I thought I might tow on the next S100, but…Dave’s comments give me second thoughts. Probably will go without like on the last one. David Young tows an inflatable on his M17, Tramontana with no issues, so it’s tempting to try it. Dave, if you were to pull it in close enough to slightly raise the front and get it out of the waves to minimize drag, would that improve things? www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
A kayak, or anything else on tow, surfing into you is easily prevented by using a tow line that's longer than one wavelength. I've towed seasick students in kayaks through 6' breakers without trouble. On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 12:39 PM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
I've also had a really really bad experience towing a kayak behind an M15 on SF Bay, when the weather picked up and I was surfing down breaking waves. The kayak wanted to accelerate down the waves and ram the boat, and then would try to flip or swamp. Tying it close caused it to want to flip, and fill with water. I was single handing, and couldn't leave the tiller to try different solutions, so ended up steering with one hand while stabilizing the kayak with the other for a very long time.
I will never again tow a dinghy of any kind behind a sailboat unless I am in very protected water like a small windless lake. Especially since there are so many options for dinghies that can store aboard an M boat.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "Rusty Knorr" <rustyinafrica@yahoo.com> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2023 12:23:02 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15
Man, I had the absolute worst experience towing a hard dink with my M15 on the first Salish100, I will never do that again! I do have an Avon Redcrest that came with my new M15 that I thought I might tow on the next S100, but…Dave’s comments give me second thoughts. Probably will go without like on the last one. David Young tows an inflatable on his M17, Tramontana with no issues, so it’s tempting to try it.
Dave, if you were to pull it in close enough to slightly raise the front and get it out of the waves to minimize drag, would that improve things?
www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
I don’t understand the need for a dinghy for a small boat like a Monty. Maybe it’s the Floridian in me. I just anchor in shallow water, maybe 2 ft deep, step off the boat and walk to shore. Been doing this for 45 years. My cruising boats with 5-6 ft draft I carried a dinghy. Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 18, 2023, at 15:23, Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Man, I had the absolute worst experience towing a hard dink with my M15 on the first Salish100, I will never do that again! I do have an Avon Redcrest that came with my new M15 that I thought I might tow on the next S100, but…Dave’s comments give me second thoughts. Probably will go without like on the last one. David Young tows an inflatable on his M17, Tramontana with no issues, so it’s tempting to try it.
Dave, if you were to pull it in close enough to slightly raise the front and get it out of the waves to minimize drag, would that improve things?
www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Oct 18, 2023, at 11:29 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello folks.
Yeah a dinghy for a small boat is a challenge. When I had a M15 'thought' I needed a dinghy and went for a year without. Never had an issue as could always find dock space, joys of a small boat, if needed to go on-land. i did get an small inflatable dinghy. Was a doughnut shaped thing and found to be WORTHLESS! Couldn't row against any wind, terrible against current, (its lack of rowing ability actually made it dangerous) couldn't easily store on the foredeck, couldn't be towed (was so poorly shaped would put up a wall of water at its 'bow' being a sea anchor and would likely rip itself apart, and deflated it took up 80% of the vberth ... and also brought in a bunch of water making the cabin/berth wet!!! Used it on one cruise (only two times and then for the remainder of the trip didn't reinflate. Got ride of it on craigslist.
For the M17, Sage 17 and Sage 15/SageCat didn't use a dinghy for over 10 years. Again never had an issue as was always able to find dock space - even used the dinghy dock a few times as these days a boat less then 20' is shorted the 1/3rd of the powered rib 'dinghies'. Those times I was on non-tidal waters I just anchored close to shore and waded to land.
IMO get a small kayak. IMO folding is problematic as it still is HUGE to put below. IMO just expect to tow the kayak at all times.
Another option is a small hard-side dinghy, like a Montgomery 6'8" or similar. I got a 6'8" that I used for a short time with my M17 - found a great price on the dinghy and was also looking for a larger boat to have a more comfortable live-aboard experience (17' is really small for living aboard through the PNW Fall/Winter/Spring). The M6'8" looks great, rows and sails well, and tows just fine. I never expected to put the dingy on the foredeck.
:: Dave Scobie :: SV SWALLOW - https://sailboatsallow.wordpress.com :: Montgomery 6'8" #650 :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M17 owner #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com/> :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred
On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 11:08 AM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
Yes, I also didn't mention that my main dinghy is actually a Sea Eagle 465ft dropstitch inflatable kayak. I love it because it is extremely stable and seaworthy, and can carry 3 adults. Dropstitch tech is amazing, it basically makes a hard kayak that is still inflatable.
I didn't mention it in the M15 context because the 465ft basically took up the entire cabin on my M15 when deflated. It did work for me, but isn't really ideal to carry something that large.
Jim- no I am not planning on selling my Origami, but it is a pretty straightforward project if you want to buy the plans and build it yourself. I will post photos when I am done... I am building it from redwood with mahogany marine plywood.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam" <shunter@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2023 11:09:24 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15
I tried out one of the drop-stitched kayaks (31" wide, 13'5" long) on a trip from Bellingham to the San Juans and back this summer. I was really happy with it. It didn't slow the boat down like a bigger boat would, didn't flip over and cause trouble like the canoe that one of the other members of the group brought, and was pretty nice for paddling around and exploring. I did have trouble with it racing down the waves and running into the back of the boat when coming into Bellingham Bay under strong winds, but it is lightweight enough that I was able to tie it up tight to one of the back cleats and keep it out of trouble. It doesn't fold up as small as a SUP, but will fit inside of the M15 v-berth, leaving enough room for a person to sleep, and I think it's quite a bit better for adventuring in.
Sam
M15 #272
[image: image.png]
On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 11:46 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'm also planning to build a slightly modified Origami. Have the wood, need to get the fabric, and just haven't made the time yet.
Plans here from the designer's site: https://woodenwidget.com/origami.htm There's a bunch of pics of different people's builds there also.
Or you can get plans via Duckworks (6 ft and 8 ft respectively): https://duckworks.com/origami-6-plans/ https://duckworks.com/origami-8-plans/
His "Fliptail" design is more aesthetically appealing, but is over twice as thick when folded (10" vs. 4" according to specs).
I asked him a few questions about pros and cons of the two designs; he wrote me that both row and sail OK, and, the Origami rows better, and the Fliptail sails better.
cheers, John
On 10/15/23 07:49, Jim Sadler wrote:
Thanks Skipper I am very interest in the Origami . All I need is to get to shore after anchoring. And not use any storage space. Will you be selling the Origami? Or the plans? Capt Jim SV Pelican
-----Original Message----- From: casioqv@usermail.com <casioqv@usermail.com> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2023 5:31 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15
An inflatable SUP (stand up paddleboard) works great for me. I am also in the process of building a WoodenWidget Origami, which is a 6 foot folding dinghy that sets up in 1 minute, and can store flat on the V berth.
Sincerely, Tyler
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: For <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Saturday, 14 October 2023 7:16 PM PDT Subject: M_Boats: Inflatable dingy for M15
What are you skippiers using to get to shore when anchoring? Looking for inflatable Thanks Capt Jim SV Pelican
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
You need a dinghy if you ever go sailing in parts of Maine. The first time we tried sailing there with our Bolger MICRO, we found that there were no marinas. The only thing available were moorings. All dock space is used by the lobsermen, who brin in their lobsters; off load them; gent new bait for their traps; refuel their boat; and then use their own mooring in the harbor. With deep and cold water (no wading ashore) without a dinghy you can't go sailing. That winter I built a Bolger NYMPH, and in Eastern waters, I towed it, and we used it often, on Moosehead Lake, ME; in Chesapeake Bay,; on Lake Champlain; and in Florida - west coast and Florida Keys. It was a solution that worked well for us. Connie ex-M-15 #400 LEPPO On 10/19/2023 6:52 AM, Bob via montgomery_boats wrote:
I don’t understand the need for a dinghy for a small boat like a Monty. Maybe it’s the Floridian in me. I just anchor in shallow water, maybe 2 ft deep, step off the boat and walk to shore. Been doing this for 45 years. My cruising boats with 5-6 ft draft I carried a dinghy.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 18, 2023, at 15:23, Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Man, I had the absolute worst experience towing a hard dink with my M15 on the first Salish100, I will never do that again! I do have an Avon Redcrest that came with my new M15 that I thought I might tow on the next S100, but…Dave’s comments give me second thoughts. Probably will go without like on the last one. David Young tows an inflatable on his M17, Tramontana with no issues, so it’s tempting to try it.
Dave, if you were to pull it in close enough to slightly raise the front and get it out of the waves to minimize drag, would that improve things?
www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Oct 18, 2023, at 11:29 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello folks.
Yeah a dinghy for a small boat is a challenge. When I had a M15 'thought' I needed a dinghy and went for a year without. Never had an issue as could always find dock space, joys of a small boat, if needed to go on-land. i did get an small inflatable dinghy. Was a doughnut shaped thing and found to be WORTHLESS! Couldn't row against any wind, terrible against current, (its lack of rowing ability actually made it dangerous) couldn't easily store on the foredeck, couldn't be towed (was so poorly shaped would put up a wall of water at its 'bow' being a sea anchor and would likely rip itself apart, and deflated it took up 80% of the vberth ... and also brought in a bunch of water making the cabin/berth wet!!! Used it on one cruise (only two times and then for the remainder of the trip didn't reinflate. Got ride of it on craigslist.
For the M17, Sage 17 and Sage 15/SageCat didn't use a dinghy for over 10 years. Again never had an issue as was always able to find dock space - even used the dinghy dock a few times as these days a boat less then 20' is shorted the 1/3rd of the powered rib 'dinghies'. Those times I was on non-tidal waters I just anchored close to shore and waded to land.
IMO get a small kayak. IMO folding is problematic as it still is HUGE to put below. IMO just expect to tow the kayak at all times.
Another option is a small hard-side dinghy, like a Montgomery 6'8" or similar. I got a 6'8" that I used for a short time with my M17 - found a great price on the dinghy and was also looking for a larger boat to have a more comfortable live-aboard experience (17' is really small for living aboard through the PNW Fall/Winter/Spring). The M6'8" looks great, rows and sails well, and tows just fine. I never expected to put the dingy on the foredeck.
:: Dave Scobie :: SV SWALLOW - https://sailboatsallow.wordpress.com :: Montgomery 6'8" #650 :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M17 owner #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com/> :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred
On Wed, Oct 18, 2023 at 11:08 AM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote: Yes, I also didn't mention that my main dinghy is actually a Sea Eagle 465ft dropstitch inflatable kayak. I love it because it is extremely stable and seaworthy, and can carry 3 adults. Dropstitch tech is amazing, it basically makes a hard kayak that is still inflatable.
I didn't mention it in the M15 context because the 465ft basically took up the entire cabin on my M15 when deflated. It did work for me, but isn't really ideal to carry something that large.
Jim- no I am not planning on selling my Origami, but it is a pretty straightforward project if you want to buy the plans and build it yourself. I will post photos when I am done... I am building it from redwood with mahogany marine plywood.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam" <shunter@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2023 11:09:24 PM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15
I tried out one of the drop-stitched kayaks (31" wide, 13'5" long) on a trip from Bellingham to the San Juans and back this summer. I was really happy with it. It didn't slow the boat down like a bigger boat would, didn't flip over and cause trouble like the canoe that one of the other members of the group brought, and was pretty nice for paddling around and exploring. I did have trouble with it racing down the waves and running into the back of the boat when coming into Bellingham Bay under strong winds, but it is lightweight enough that I was able to tie it up tight to one of the back cleats and keep it out of trouble. It doesn't fold up as small as a SUP, but will fit inside of the M15 v-berth, leaving enough room for a person to sleep, and I think it's quite a bit better for adventuring in.
Sam
M15 #272
[image: image.png]
On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 11:46 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I'm also planning to build a slightly modified Origami. Have the wood, need to get the fabric, and just haven't made the time yet. Plans here from the designer's site: https://woodenwidget.com/origami.htm There's a bunch of pics of different people's builds there also.
Or you can get plans via Duckworks (6 ft and 8 ft respectively): https://duckworks.com/origami-6-plans/ https://duckworks.com/origami-8-plans/
His "Fliptail" design is more aesthetically appealing, but is over twice as thick when folded (10" vs. 4" according to specs).
I asked him a few questions about pros and cons of the two designs; he wrote me that both row and sail OK, and, the Origami rows better, and the Fliptail sails better.
cheers, John
On 10/15/23 07:49, Jim Sadler wrote:
Thanks Skipper I am very interest in the Origami . All I need is to get to shore after anchoring. And not use any storage space. Will you be selling the Origami? Or the plans? Capt Jim SV Pelican
-----Original Message----- From: casioqv@usermail.com <casioqv@usermail.com> Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2023 5:31 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15
An inflatable SUP (stand up paddleboard) works great for me. I am also in the process of building a WoodenWidget Origami, which is a 6 foot folding dinghy that sets up in 1 minute, and can store flat on the V berth. Sincerely, Tyler
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: For <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Saturday, 14 October 2023 7:16 PM PDT Subject: M_Boats: Inflatable dingy for M15
What are you skippiers using to get to shore when anchoring? Looking for inflatable Thanks Capt Jim SV Pelican
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
It depends on your conditions. I sail on San Francisco Bay... we can have up to 9 foot tidal swings, and the bottoms are often deep soft muck that suctions you down and is impossible to walk on- kayakers have had to be helicoptered out of it. The water temps can get as low as high 30s/low 40s F, and 4 knot tidal currents near shore can knock a person over and carry them away. I'm also mostly sailing with my toddler son who can't swim yet. It would be mostly impossible for us to anchor out/gunkhole for overnights without a dinghy of some kind. For just the two of us, we can usually get away with an inflatable SUP that weighs only 17lbs and can roll up and be carried in one hand... no big deal. I also like the Pardey's philosophy of always having a "life boat" that is navigable... where you can make headway to shore and not just be adrift or floating in the water. Sincerely, Tyler Sage 17 #0 Goshawk ----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: islandergirl80@yahoo.com Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2023 4:52:48 AM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15 I don’t understand the need for a dinghy for a small boat like a Monty. Maybe it’s the Floridian in me. I just anchor in shallow water, maybe 2 ft deep, step off the boat and walk to shore. Been doing this for 45 years. My cruising boats with 5-6 ft draft I carried a dinghy.
Thanks skippers. It all depends on what you are doing. At Santa Barbara Island (California) there is no beach . You anchor off and row dingy to cliffs. Also I have needed to set stern anchor and used dingy. If it is all sandy beach forget the dingy Capt Jim SV Pelican (M15) -----Original Message----- From: casioqv@usermail.com <casioqv@usermail.com> Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2023 9:28 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: islandergirl80@yahoo.com Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15 It depends on your conditions. I sail on San Francisco Bay... we can have up to 9 foot tidal swings, and the bottoms are often deep soft muck that suctions you down and is impossible to walk on- kayakers have had to be helicoptered out of it. The water temps can get as low as high 30s/low 40s F, and 4 knot tidal currents near shore can knock a person over and carry them away. I'm also mostly sailing with my toddler son who can't swim yet. It would be mostly impossible for us to anchor out/gunkhole for overnights without a dinghy of some kind. For just the two of us, we can usually get away with an inflatable SUP that weighs only 17lbs and can roll up and be carried in one hand... no big deal. I also like the Pardey's philosophy of always having a "life boat" that is navigable... where you can make headway to shore and not just be adrift or floating in the water. Sincerely, Tyler Sage 17 #0 Goshawk ----- Original Message ----- From: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: islandergirl80@yahoo.com Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2023 4:52:48 AM Subject: M_Boats: Re: Inflatable dingy for M15 I don’t understand the need for a dinghy for a small boat like a Monty. Maybe it’s the Floridian in me. I just anchor in shallow water, maybe 2 ft deep, step off the boat and walk to shore. Been doing this for 45 years. My cruising boats with 5-6 ft draft I carried a dinghy.
Re this: On 10/18/23 11:28, Dave Scobie wrote: ...
IMO get a small kayak. IMO folding is problematic as it still is HUGE to put below. IMO just expect to tow the kayak at all times.
I used a friend's rec kayak (Perception Carolina 12) as dinghy for a multi-day trip to Waldo lake (OR) some years back. As long as you can get in & out OK it works well. That is *not* a beginner move, from sailboat cockpit to kayak cockpit or vice versa! And of course then you have a kayak to cruise around in, much more versatile & efficient than a dinghy for exploring sounds, inlets, shorelines, rest of the lake when wind is down, etc. Waldo is a great paddling lake as well so the combo of M17 and kayak was splendid. That particular kayak by the way is a great option for dinghy use (speaking as an experienced kayaker and paddle-sports instructor), it is beginner-friendly but paddles decently as well, not a barge like a lot of 'compromise' rec kayaks. It's been in production for decades so you can sometimes find them used for a good price. Very durable. Towed fine for me. Downside of a one-person kayak is, you can't carry more than one person. And other hauling is limited to what can be fit in the hatches and/or any extra space in kayak cockpit. If you want two person capacity and/or easier loading of gas, groceries, dog, etc., look for the rec kayaks with very long wide open cockpits, typically 12-14 ft long, that have two seats or can be switched between one and two seats. Someone here has posted they use one of those and it works well for them... The Origami is about 6 ft. x 6 inches x 15 inches folded, which for an M17 is not that hard to stow. It will go on the quarter berth, or under the cockpit sole, doesn't have to be on the V-berth. cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (10)
-
casioqv＠usermail.com -
Conbert H. Benneck -
Dave Scobie -
islandergirl80＠yahoo.com -
Jasper Greve -
Jim Sadler -
John Schinnerer -
Paul Baker -
Rusty Knorr -
Sam