Wow - that is just an incredible job you did on the cabin. Inspiring! Re: http://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/storytechnicaldetail.php?id=... Here fwiw is my little effort at it, for installing wood panels onto the cabin sides - M15, on page 8. http://nockamixonsailclub.org/sites/default/files/TheCompassDecember2017.pdf
Nice work, Brad, I too wanted that "wood look" on the boat to soften the "bleach bottle look" but rapidly found that on a boat the size of the Monty15 or Monty 17, AS-IS (mine now) the waterline disappears so one has added drag and the tendency to roll more to the boat as well as the beauty of natural wood. Two things Jerry warned about,especially if that extra weight is placed high in the boat. Some times it is best to paint in the features you want to look at while at anchor and forgo the real wood appeal. I also went from a Series 24 to a series 27 battery, another mistake. This size boat with its limited displacement will not tolerate a whole lot of extra weight. Fair winds, Tom B On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 2:27 PM, brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek@gmail.com> wrote:
Wow - that is just an incredible job you did on the cabin. Inspiring! Re: http://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/ storytechnicaldetail.php?id=108
Here fwiw is my little effort at it, for installing wood panels onto the cabin sides - M15, on page 8. http://nockamixonsailclub.org/sites/default/files/ TheCompassDecember2017.pdf
On 12/28/2017 12:39 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: ...
Two things Jerry warned about,especially if that extra weight is placed high in the boat. Some times it is best to paint in the features you want to look at while at anchor and forgo the real wood appeal. I also went from a Series 24 to a series 27 battery, another mistake. This size boat with its limited displacement will not tolerate a whole lot of extra weight.
I have been doing the math on the battery issue as I may finally get a house battery for the coming season. Or not...reasoning as follows... One take is, I have very minimal power requirements and use all portable electronics (VHF, GPS, headlamp, LED cabin & anchor lights) with plenty of spare batteries. So - no house battery needed. My LED bulb retrofit nav lights, if I am even moving at night, can run for many hours off a small rechargeable 12V battery pack. The other take is, for price/performance, lithium batteries are pretty much a clear winner. Yes, the up front price for a "small" battery seems high, the "sticker shock" effect. But if you know much about batteries you can get by the sticker shock. For example: 1. they will last much longer than lead-acid of any type/price, with essentially zero maintenance. Lead-acid need at least trickle-charging off-season even if they are the sealed variety, and a desulfator if you want full battery life. 2. the high cost per amp-hour (AH) of lithium is more than offset by the fact that you get 100% depth of discharge (DoD) for the full life of the battery. Lead-acid batteries tolerate a much lower DoD, and the higher the consistently used DoD, the shorter their life. So a much smaller lithium battery AH rating gets you the same usable AH as a far heavier, higher maintenance, shorter lived lead-acid. For example I could get a 20AH lithium ($275-$300) like this: https://nexgenbattery.com/shop/batteries/12v-20ah/ ...and repeatedly use all 20AH, for thousands of cycles. Small and light and zero maintenance. Or I could get a typical series 24 "marine/RV dual-purpose" 65AH lead-acid like this or equivalent: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--dual-purpose-flooded-marine-batt... I pay ~45% less up front. I do get a lot more weight and bulk for my money, it's true... :-) But with this kind of battery I need to keep my depth of discharge down to 20-30% or I start to shorten battery life significantly. That means I only have a max of 20AH usable anyhow...same as the lithium above, which is far smaller and lighter and longer-lived and near zero maintenance. So if I get a house battery, I'll probably get a lithium in the 20AH range. cheers, John S.
Fair winds, Tom B
On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 2:27 PM, brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek@gmail.com> wrote:
Wow - that is just an incredible job you did on the cabin. Inspiring! Re: http://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/ storytechnicaldetail.php?id=108
Here fwiw is my little effort at it, for installing wood panels onto the cabin sides - M15, on page 8. http://nockamixonsailclub.org/sites/default/files/ TheCompassDecember2017.pdf
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Thanks for the info, John. Getting rid of the house battery would be a BIG plus in weight savings even if it is very low and close to the centerline. Well researched. My 3/4 inch mahogany hatch boards added a lot of weight up high, especially when compared to the stock hatch boards. As did my beefing up the athwartship bulkhead at the head of the quarter berth. I did that when I realized I would be cutting holes in the bulkhead for meters, circuit board, etc. A friend's boat when he bought it had holes cut for speakers too and the bulkhead had actually buckled,when, under mast loading, it actually used the shrouds to squeeze the hull enough to fold that weakened bulkhead. fair winds, Tom B On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 4:56 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 12/28/2017 12:39 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: ...
Two things Jerry warned about,especially if that extra weight is placed high in the boat. Some times it is best to paint in the features you want to look at while at anchor and forgo the real wood appeal. I also went from a Series 24 to a series 27 battery, another mistake. This size boat with its limited displacement will not tolerate a whole lot of extra weight.
I have been doing the math on the battery issue as I may finally get a house battery for the coming season. Or not...reasoning as follows...
One take is, I have very minimal power requirements and use all portable electronics (VHF, GPS, headlamp, LED cabin & anchor lights) with plenty of spare batteries. So - no house battery needed. My LED bulb retrofit nav lights, if I am even moving at night, can run for many hours off a small rechargeable 12V battery pack.
The other take is, for price/performance, lithium batteries are pretty much a clear winner. Yes, the up front price for a "small" battery seems high, the "sticker shock" effect. But if you know much about batteries you can get by the sticker shock. For example:
1. they will last much longer than lead-acid of any type/price, with essentially zero maintenance. Lead-acid need at least trickle-charging off-season even if they are the sealed variety, and a desulfator if you want full battery life.
2. the high cost per amp-hour (AH) of lithium is more than offset by the fact that you get 100% depth of discharge (DoD) for the full life of the battery. Lead-acid batteries tolerate a much lower DoD, and the higher the consistently used DoD, the shorter their life.
So a much smaller lithium battery AH rating gets you the same usable AH as a far heavier, higher maintenance, shorter lived lead-acid.
For example I could get a 20AH lithium ($275-$300) like this: https://nexgenbattery.com/shop/batteries/12v-20ah/ ...and repeatedly use all 20AH, for thousands of cycles. Small and light and zero maintenance.
Or I could get a typical series 24 "marine/RV dual-purpose" 65AH lead-acid like this or equivalent: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--dual-purpose-flo oded-marine-battery-675-mca-group-24--15020183 I pay ~45% less up front. I do get a lot more weight and bulk for my money, it's true... :-) But with this kind of battery I need to keep my depth of discharge down to 20-30% or I start to shorten battery life significantly. That means I only have a max of 20AH usable anyhow...same as the lithium above, which is far smaller and lighter and longer-lived and near zero maintenance.
So if I get a house battery, I'll probably get a lithium in the 20AH range.
cheers, John S.
Fair winds,
Tom B
On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 2:27 PM, brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek@gmail.com
wrote:
Wow - that is just an incredible job you did on the cabin. Inspiring!
Re: http://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/ storytechnicaldetail.php?id=108
Here fwiw is my little effort at it, for installing wood panels onto the cabin sides - M15, on page 8. http://nockamixonsailclub.org/sites/default/files/ TheCompassDecember2017.pdf
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Hi John, When I first got my M17, I replaced the flooded lead acid group 24 battery which was at end of life... My choice was a sealed ultra pure lead AGM group 24 battery providing 76 AH of capacity, with a self discharge rate of about 1-2% per month, 400 charge/discharge cycles to 80% depth of discharge and over 900 cycles at 50% depth of discharge, the cost was about $320 USD. http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/nautilus-group-24-pure- lead-agm-deep-cycle-battery-0102496p.html It doesn't do anything to decrease the weight but it's given it's characteristics I expect to get 5-7 years of life out of it. It provides enough capacity to continuously service Serenity's max sailing power budget (@ 0.6 amps) for LED Nav & Cabin lights, VHF, depth sounder, & chart plotter when coupled with the 50 Watt flexible solar panel that is mounted on the forward hatch. The theory is I can cruise indefinitely, subject of course to my Admiral's permission! Cheers, Keith *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* *Burnaby, B.C. Canada* *Serenity, M17, #353* On 28 December 2017 at 14:56, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 12/28/2017 12:39 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: ...
Two things Jerry warned about,especially if that extra weight is placed high in the boat. Some times it is best to paint in the features you want to look at while at anchor and forgo the real wood appeal. I also went from a Series 24 to a series 27 battery, another mistake. This size boat with its limited displacement will not tolerate a whole lot of extra weight.
I have been doing the math on the battery issue as I may finally get a house battery for the coming season. Or not...reasoning as follows...
One take is, I have very minimal power requirements and use all portable electronics (VHF, GPS, headlamp, LED cabin & anchor lights) with plenty of spare batteries. So - no house battery needed. My LED bulb retrofit nav lights, if I am even moving at night, can run for many hours off a small rechargeable 12V battery pack.
The other take is, for price/performance, lithium batteries are pretty much a clear winner. Yes, the up front price for a "small" battery seems high, the "sticker shock" effect. But if you know much about batteries you can get by the sticker shock. For example:
1. they will last much longer than lead-acid of any type/price, with essentially zero maintenance. Lead-acid need at least trickle-charging off-season even if they are the sealed variety, and a desulfator if you want full battery life.
2. the high cost per amp-hour (AH) of lithium is more than offset by the fact that you get 100% depth of discharge (DoD) for the full life of the battery. Lead-acid batteries tolerate a much lower DoD, and the higher the consistently used DoD, the shorter their life.
So a much smaller lithium battery AH rating gets you the same usable AH as a far heavier, higher maintenance, shorter lived lead-acid.
For example I could get a 20AH lithium ($275-$300) like this: https://nexgenbattery.com/shop/batteries/12v-20ah/ ...and repeatedly use all 20AH, for thousands of cycles. Small and light and zero maintenance.
Or I could get a typical series 24 "marine/RV dual-purpose" 65AH lead-acid like this or equivalent: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--dual-purpose-flo oded-marine-battery-675-mca-group-24--15020183 I pay ~45% less up front. I do get a lot more weight and bulk for my money, it's true... :-) But with this kind of battery I need to keep my depth of discharge down to 20-30% or I start to shorten battery life significantly. That means I only have a max of 20AH usable anyhow...same as the lithium above, which is far smaller and lighter and longer-lived and near zero maintenance.
So if I get a house battery, I'll probably get a lithium in the 20AH range.
cheers, John S.
Fair winds,
Tom B
On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 2:27 PM, brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek@gmail.com
wrote:
Wow - that is just an incredible job you did on the cabin. Inspiring!
Re: http://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/ storytechnicaldetail.php?id=108
Here fwiw is my little effort at it, for installing wood panels onto the cabin sides - M15, on page 8. http://nockamixonsailclub.org/sites/default/files/ TheCompassDecember2017.pdf
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
This... On 12/28/2017 03:56 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote: ...
My choice was a sealed ultra pure lead AGM group 24 battery providing 76 AH of capacity, with a self discharge rate of about 1-2% per month, 400 charge/discharge cycles to 80% depth of discharge and over 900 cycles at 50% depth of discharge
...is a great example of how DoD affects lead-acid battery life. Take it down to 80% repeatedly instead of only 50% and you shorten the life by over half. Also the "ultra pure" lead is going to have longer life on average than lower price point batteries. Also lower odds of early catastrophic failure from impurities in the lead. cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Yes totally agree with the DoD issue, I have tried to help it a bit using a good charge controller.. time will tell... So far it's been a good setup... Keith *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity M17, #353* On 28 December 2017 at 20:52, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
This...
On 12/28/2017 03:56 PM, Keith R. Martin wrote: ...
My choice was a sealed ultra pure lead AGM group 24 battery providing 76 AH of capacity, with a self discharge rate of about 1-2% per month, 400 charge/discharge cycles to 80% depth of discharge and over 900 cycles at 50% depth of discharge
...is a great example of how DoD affects lead-acid battery life. Take it down to 80% repeatedly instead of only 50% and you shorten the life by over half.
Also the "ultra pure" lead is going to have longer life on average than lower price point batteries. Also lower odds of early catastrophic failure from impurities in the lead.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I got a U1 size 31AH gel cell (not AGM). It weighs 25 lb., cost $90, and is rated 300 cycles at 100%. On Dec 28, 2017, 3:57 PM -0700, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net>, wrote:
On 12/28/2017 12:39 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: ...
Two things Jerry warned about,especially if that extra weight is placed high in the boat. Some times it is best to paint in the features you want to look at while at anchor and forgo the real wood appeal. I also went from a Series 24 to a series 27 battery, another mistake. This size boat with its limited displacement will not tolerate a whole lot of extra weight.
I have been doing the math on the battery issue as I may finally get a house battery for the coming season. Or not...reasoning as follows...
One take is, I have very minimal power requirements and use all portable electronics (VHF, GPS, headlamp, LED cabin & anchor lights) with plenty of spare batteries. So - no house battery needed. My LED bulb retrofit nav lights, if I am even moving at night, can run for many hours off a small rechargeable 12V battery pack.
Sounds like a good deal. On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 6:15 PM, David Rifkind <drifkind@acm.org> wrote:
I got a U1 size 31AH gel cell (not AGM). It weighs 25 lb., cost $90, and is rated 300 cycles at 100%.
On Dec 28, 2017, 3:57 PM -0700, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net>, wrote:
On 12/28/2017 12:39 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: ...
Two things Jerry warned about,especially if that extra weight is placed high in the boat. Some times it is best to paint in the features you want to look at while at anchor and forgo the real wood appeal. I also went from a Series 24 to a series 27 battery, another mistake. This size boat with its limited displacement will not tolerate a whole lot of extra weight.
I have been doing the math on the battery issue as I may finally get a house battery for the coming season. Or not...reasoning as follows...
One take is, I have very minimal power requirements and use all portable electronics (VHF, GPS, headlamp, LED cabin & anchor lights) with plenty of spare batteries. So - no house battery needed. My LED bulb retrofit nav lights, if I am even moving at night, can run for many hours off a small rechargeable 12V battery pack.
John, I appreciate reading this discussion as I'm often evaluating/re-evaluating the battery setup on my M17. For the previous 3 seasons I have been using two: 12v 35AH U1 Deep Cycle AGM Solar Battery https://www.amazon.com/ML35-12-Battery-Replaces-Mighty-product/dp/B00K8E0WAG... Each battery is in its own canvas tool bag w/handle, along with a Deltran smart charger. No Nav lights but I use one to power a CPAP machine at night (1 amp/hr load - tested to 4-nights use) and to charge phone/tablet. Being "portable" I can take one or both with me depending on the trip and in a pinch can typically find a place to plug-in an recharge. My goal is to get 3-5 years use out of each battery. But yes, I do keep them on charge at home (backup power for home CPAP machine) when not in use. I went the AGM route because of my familiarity with them and their low-cost. I also have a 6.5 watt solar panel that is a direct-connection to help with recharging. Your information on lithium batteries is very informative. I'm interested to hear what you decide and how it works out for you. And Very Interesting to read the input from others. Best Wishers for 2018 Randy Graves M17 Gill On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 2:56 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 12/28/2017 12:39 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: ...
Two things Jerry warned about,especially if that extra weight is placed high in the boat. Some times it is best to paint in the features you want to look at while at anchor and forgo the real wood appeal. I also went from a Series 24 to a series 27 battery, another mistake. This size boat with its limited displacement will not tolerate a whole lot of extra weight.
I have been doing the math on the battery issue as I may finally get a house battery for the coming season. Or not...reasoning as follows...
One take is, I have very minimal power requirements and use all portable electronics (VHF, GPS, headlamp, LED cabin & anchor lights) with plenty of spare batteries. So - no house battery needed. My LED bulb retrofit nav lights, if I am even moving at night, can run for many hours off a small rechargeable 12V battery pack.
The other take is, for price/performance, lithium batteries are pretty much a clear winner. Yes, the up front price for a "small" battery seems high, the "sticker shock" effect. But if you know much about batteries you can get by the sticker shock. For example:
1. they will last much longer than lead-acid of any type/price, with essentially zero maintenance. Lead-acid need at least trickle-charging off-season even if they are the sealed variety, and a desulfator if you want full battery life.
2. the high cost per amp-hour (AH) of lithium is more than offset by the fact that you get 100% depth of discharge (DoD) for the full life of the battery. Lead-acid batteries tolerate a much lower DoD, and the higher the consistently used DoD, the shorter their life.
So a much smaller lithium battery AH rating gets you the same usable AH as a far heavier, higher maintenance, shorter lived lead-acid.
For example I could get a 20AH lithium ($275-$300) like this: https://nexgenbattery.com/shop/batteries/12v-20ah/ ...and repeatedly use all 20AH, for thousands of cycles. Small and light and zero maintenance.
Or I could get a typical series 24 "marine/RV dual-purpose" 65AH lead-acid like this or equivalent: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--dual-purpose-flo oded-marine-battery-675-mca-group-24--15020183 I pay ~45% less up front. I do get a lot more weight and bulk for my money, it's true... :-) But with this kind of battery I need to keep my depth of discharge down to 20-30% or I start to shorten battery life significantly. That means I only have a max of 20AH usable anyhow...same as the lithium above, which is far smaller and lighter and longer-lived and near zero maintenance.
So if I get a house battery, I'll probably get a lithium in the 20AH range.
cheers, John S.
Fair winds,
Tom B
On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 2:27 PM, brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek@gmail.com
wrote:
Wow - that is just an incredible job you did on the cabin. Inspiring!
Re: http://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/ storytechnicaldetail.php?id=108
Here fwiw is my little effort at it, for installing wood panels onto the cabin sides - M15, on page 8. http://nockamixonsailclub.org/sites/default/files/ TheCompassDecember2017.pdf
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Thanks Randy, Nice setup you have also. The "portable" piece is good, I've seen that on a Ranger 20 a friend used to own, the "house battery" was a fairly small lead-acid gel battery in a very nice custom wooden carry-box with main battery switch on outside and connectors routed to outside. So he could easily disconnect and take it out to charge or store or whatever. Also a sailing acquaintance with a Wharram Tiki 21 who is using a couple of smaller gel or AGM cells in parallel for house (or in that case 'houses', but they're both in one hull :-) battery. cheers, John S. On 12/29/2017 01:24 PM, Randy Graves wrote:
John,
I appreciate reading this discussion as I'm often evaluating/re-evaluating the battery setup on my M17. For the previous 3 seasons I have been using two: 12v 35AH U1 Deep Cycle AGM Solar Battery
https://www.amazon.com/ML35-12-Battery-Replaces-Mighty-product/dp/B00K8E0WAG...
Each battery is in its own canvas tool bag w/handle, along with a Deltran smart charger. No Nav lights but I use one to power a CPAP machine at night (1 amp/hr load - tested to 4-nights use) and to charge phone/tablet. Being "portable" I can take one or both with me depending on the trip and in a pinch can typically find a place to plug-in an recharge. My goal is to get 3-5 years use out of each battery. But yes, I do keep them on charge at home (backup power for home CPAP machine) when not in use. I went the AGM route because of my familiarity with them and their low-cost. I also have a 6.5 watt solar panel that is a direct-connection to help with recharging.
Your information on lithium batteries is very informative. I'm interested to hear what you decide and how it works out for you. And Very Interesting to read the input from others.
Best Wishers for 2018 Randy Graves M17 Gill
On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 2:56 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
On 12/28/2017 12:39 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: ...
Two things Jerry warned about,especially if that extra weight is placed high in the boat. Some times it is best to paint in the features you want to look at while at anchor and forgo the real wood appeal. I also went from a Series 24 to a series 27 battery, another mistake. This size boat with its limited displacement will not tolerate a whole lot of extra weight.
I have been doing the math on the battery issue as I may finally get a house battery for the coming season. Or not...reasoning as follows...
One take is, I have very minimal power requirements and use all portable electronics (VHF, GPS, headlamp, LED cabin & anchor lights) with plenty of spare batteries. So - no house battery needed. My LED bulb retrofit nav lights, if I am even moving at night, can run for many hours off a small rechargeable 12V battery pack.
The other take is, for price/performance, lithium batteries are pretty much a clear winner. Yes, the up front price for a "small" battery seems high, the "sticker shock" effect. But if you know much about batteries you can get by the sticker shock. For example:
1. they will last much longer than lead-acid of any type/price, with essentially zero maintenance. Lead-acid need at least trickle-charging off-season even if they are the sealed variety, and a desulfator if you want full battery life.
2. the high cost per amp-hour (AH) of lithium is more than offset by the fact that you get 100% depth of discharge (DoD) for the full life of the battery. Lead-acid batteries tolerate a much lower DoD, and the higher the consistently used DoD, the shorter their life.
So a much smaller lithium battery AH rating gets you the same usable AH as a far heavier, higher maintenance, shorter lived lead-acid.
For example I could get a 20AH lithium ($275-$300) like this: https://nexgenbattery.com/shop/batteries/12v-20ah/ ...and repeatedly use all 20AH, for thousands of cycles. Small and light and zero maintenance.
Or I could get a typical series 24 "marine/RV dual-purpose" 65AH lead-acid like this or equivalent: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west-marine--dual-purpose-flo oded-marine-battery-675-mca-group-24--15020183 I pay ~45% less up front. I do get a lot more weight and bulk for my money, it's true... :-) But with this kind of battery I need to keep my depth of discharge down to 20-30% or I start to shorten battery life significantly. That means I only have a max of 20AH usable anyhow...same as the lithium above, which is far smaller and lighter and longer-lived and near zero maintenance.
So if I get a house battery, I'll probably get a lithium in the 20AH range.
cheers, John S.
Fair winds,
Tom B
On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 2:27 PM, brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek@gmail.com
wrote:
Wow - that is just an incredible job you did on the cabin. Inspiring!
Re: http://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/ storytechnicaldetail.php?id=108
Here fwiw is my little effort at it, for installing wood panels onto the cabin sides - M15, on page 8. http://nockamixonsailclub.org/sites/default/files/ TheCompassDecember2017.pdf
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Looks sweet indeed! For a person of my height (6 ft 3 in), however, every inch of interior space is valuable, I wouldn't want to give up even this little bit. Some previous owner of my boat had put a bulky wooden box-surround around the aluminum compression post - one of my first mods was to get it the heck out of there.. :-) cheers, John S. On 12/28/2017 12:39 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Nice work, Brad, I too wanted that "wood look" on the boat to soften the "bleach bottle look" but rapidly found that on a boat the size of the Monty15 or Monty 17, AS-IS (mine now) the waterline disappears so one has added drag and the tendency to roll more to the boat as well as the beauty of natural wood. Two things Jerry warned about,especially if that extra weight is placed high in the boat. Some times it is best to paint in the features you want to look at while at anchor and forgo the real wood appeal. I also went from a Series 24 to a series 27 battery, another mistake. This size boat with its limited displacement will not tolerate a whole lot of extra weight. Fair winds, Tom B
On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 2:27 PM, brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek@gmail.com> wrote:
Wow - that is just an incredible job you did on the cabin. Inspiring! Re: http://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/ storytechnicaldetail.php?id=108
Here fwiw is my little effort at it, for installing wood panels onto the cabin sides - M15, on page 8. http://nockamixonsailclub.org/sites/default/files/ TheCompassDecember2017.pdf
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John, Sounds like the 23 would fit you much better.😉 On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 10:57 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Looks sweet indeed! For a person of my height (6 ft 3 in), however, every inch of interior space is valuable, I wouldn't want to give up even this little bit. Some previous owner of my boat had put a bulky wooden box-surround around the aluminum compression post - one of my first mods was to get it the heck out of there.. :-)
cheers, John S.
On 12/28/2017 12:39 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Nice work, Brad, I too wanted that "wood look" on the boat to soften the "bleach bottle look" but rapidly found that on a boat the size of the Monty15 or Monty 17, AS-IS (mine now) the waterline disappears so one has added drag and the tendency to roll more to the boat as well as the beauty of natural wood. Two things Jerry warned about,especially if that extra weight is placed high in the boat. Some times it is best to paint in the features you want to look at while at anchor and forgo the real wood appeal. I also went from a Series 24 to a series 27 battery, another mistake. This size boat with its limited displacement will not tolerate a whole lot of extra weight. Fair winds, Tom B
On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 2:27 PM, brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek@gmail.com
wrote:
Wow - that is just an incredible job you did on the cabin. Inspiring!
Re: http://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/ storytechnicaldetail.php?id=108
Here fwiw is my little effort at it, for installing wood panels onto the cabin sides - M15, on page 8. http://nockamixonsailclub.org/sites/default/files/ TheCompassDecember2017.pdf
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
For interior space, sure...:-) But not for cost, maintenance, portability, etc...! cheers, John S. On 12/29/2017 07:16 AM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
John, Sounds like the 23 would fit you much better.😉
On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 10:57 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Looks sweet indeed! For a person of my height (6 ft 3 in), however, every inch of interior space is valuable, I wouldn't want to give up even this little bit. Some previous owner of my boat had put a bulky wooden box-surround around the aluminum compression post - one of my first mods was to get it the heck out of there.. :-)
cheers, John S.
On 12/28/2017 12:39 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
Nice work, Brad, I too wanted that "wood look" on the boat to soften the "bleach bottle look" but rapidly found that on a boat the size of the Monty15 or Monty 17, AS-IS (mine now) the waterline disappears so one has added drag and the tendency to roll more to the boat as well as the beauty of natural wood. Two things Jerry warned about,especially if that extra weight is placed high in the boat. Some times it is best to paint in the features you want to look at while at anchor and forgo the real wood appeal. I also went from a Series 24 to a series 27 battery, another mistake. This size boat with its limited displacement will not tolerate a whole lot of extra weight. Fair winds, Tom B
On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 2:27 PM, brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek@gmail.com
wrote:
Wow - that is just an incredible job you did on the cabin. Inspiring!
Re: http://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/ storytechnicaldetail.php?id=108
Here fwiw is my little effort at it, for installing wood panels onto the cabin sides - M15, on page 8. http://nockamixonsailclub.org/sites/default/files/ TheCompassDecember2017.pdf
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Looks good! I like the idea of cutting the ribs into smaller pieces and using 5200. Henry Monita On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 2:27 PM, brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek@gmail.com> wrote:
Wow - that is just an incredible job you did on the cabin. Inspiring! Re: http://msogphotosite.com/Scripts/StoryTechnical/ storytechnicaldetail.php?id=108
Here fwiw is my little effort at it, for installing wood panels onto the cabin sides - M15, on page 8. http://nockamixonsailclub.org/sites/default/files/ TheCompassDecember2017.pdf
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
participants (7)
-
brad kurlancheek -
David Rifkind -
Henry Rodriguez -
John Schinnerer -
Keith R. Martin -
Randy Graves -
Thomas Buzzi