I haven't tried attaching a photo to a mail list server before. If this works, maybe someone can confirm the intended use of all the attachment points. Is the port lower cleat for jib halyard and starboard for main halyard? Then what about the eye straps on the port side and the composite cleats opposite them on the starboard side? I appreciate all the help!
Same as on my boat - those are for your tack reefing lines. Two of them, assumes you have two reef points in mainsail. Eye strap for the fixed end of line; clamcleats for the moving end. Line goes from eye strap up through tack reef grommet and down to clamcleat. To reef the tack you just slack the halyard and haul down the reefing line...IF you don't have a slug stop in the mast track that is! And if you don't some of your slugs will fall out. One difference in your mast vs. mine is that mine has a machined (milled) opening in the track. Yours looks to be bent open instead. Also I have euro-style cleats for halyard; yours look to be same cleats as used for OEM jib sheet on our vintage boats. And, looks like you have fixed turning blocks on deck for main and jib halyard led to cockpit...? cheers, john On 03/19/2019 01:38 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote:
I haven't tried attaching a photo to a mail list server before. If this works, maybe someone can confirm the intended use of all the attachment points. Is the port lower cleat for jib halyard and starboard for main halyard? Then what about the eye straps on the port side and the composite cleats opposite them on the starboard side? I appreciate all the help!
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Your sail track opening has been moved down so the gooseneck would now sit above it. This is a common modification done to address the problem of sail slugs falling out that you mentioned earlier. You have the cleats right. The eyestraps and clamcleats are for the o.e. tack reefing system and/or a Cunningham. The o.e. tack reefing system does not work well when the sail track opening is below the gooseneck. Your boat already has the necessary cure, which is a reefing hook on the gooseneck. IMO you don't really need a Cunningham either because it is largely redundant of the gooseneck downhaul. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 4:39 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: photo attachment test I haven't tried attaching a photo to a mail list server before. If this works, maybe someone can confirm the intended use of all the attachment points. Is the port lower cleat for jib halyard and starboard for main halyard? Then what about the eye straps on the port side and the composite cleats opposite them on the starboard side? I appreciate all the help!
Just to add...having used the reefing hooks, I am planning to get a mast gate, and switch back to tack reefing lines per the OEM setup. The hooks ideally would attach to the gooseneck itself. If you start browsing pics of well located reef hooks, or look at gooseneck assemblies you can buy, that is where they attach reef hooks. That keeps them very close to (within 1/4-1/2") where your un-reefed tack attaches, both fore-aft and port-starboard. The way some of the M17's have them added on, like yours and mine, they are on or near the front of the mast extrusion. This puts them 1-2+ inches out of alignment with the mast track in both port-starboard and fore-aft directions. So when you actually use them: 1) the boom is twisted laterally from the tension on the hook (force is on the gooseneck joint). 2) the pull on the tack grommet is angled significantly away from the mast (force is on the sail and slugs or boltrope). Both of these put significant off-center leverage from halyard tension on parts of your boat (gooseneck, tack area of mainsail including slugs directly above reef point). And the tension is big, because if it's blowing hard and you reef you want a tight luff on the main, so you make that halyard real snug. I looked at moving my reef hooks to the gooseneck assembly but there just isn't (on mine anyhow) any workable and solid enough place to mount them. If you look at other gooseneck designs, the ones that come with reef hooks are built to have those as part of the design. I moved mine to the very front of the boom extrusion, helped a little, but not enough IMO. There is still more stress than I want to see in reefed conditions on the parts named above. Thus my plan to go back to the OEM setup...and having a mast gate and no need for slug stop in track will be an added benefit. cheers, John On 03/19/2019 02:19 PM, swwheatley@comcast.net wrote:
Your sail track opening has been moved down so the gooseneck would now sit above it. This is a common modification done to address the problem of sail slugs falling out that you mentioned earlier.
You have the cleats right.
The eyestraps and clamcleats are for the o.e. tack reefing system and/or a Cunningham. The o.e. tack reefing system does not work well when the sail track opening is below the gooseneck. Your boat already has the necessary cure, which is a reefing hook on the gooseneck. IMO you don't really need a Cunningham either because it is largely redundant of the gooseneck downhaul.
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 4:39 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: photo attachment test
I haven't tried attaching a photo to a mail list server before. If this works, maybe someone can confirm the intended use of all the attachment points. Is the port lower cleat for jib halyard and starboard for main halyard? Then what about the eye straps on the port side and the composite cleats opposite them on the starboard side? I appreciate all the help!
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
It looks like Gerry has the same tack pin/reefing hook combo as the one I've been using (from Dwyer). It works fine and, in fact, is the only thing that works if the opening in your mast slot has been relocated to underneath the gooseneck. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of John Schinnerer Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 5:47 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: photo attachment test Just to add...having used the reefing hooks, I am planning to get a mast gate, and switch back to tack reefing lines per the OEM setup. The hooks ideally would attach to the gooseneck itself. If you start browsing pics of well located reef hooks, or look at gooseneck assemblies you can buy, that is where they attach reef hooks. That keeps them very close to (within 1/4-1/2") where your un-reefed tack attaches, both fore-aft and port-starboard. The way some of the M17's have them added on, like yours and mine, they are on or near the front of the mast extrusion. This puts them 1-2+ inches out of alignment with the mast track in both port-starboard and fore-aft directions. So when you actually use them: 1) the boom is twisted laterally from the tension on the hook (force is on the gooseneck joint). 2) the pull on the tack grommet is angled significantly away from the mast (force is on the sail and slugs or boltrope). Both of these put significant off-center leverage from halyard tension on parts of your boat (gooseneck, tack area of mainsail including slugs directly above reef point). And the tension is big, because if it's blowing hard and you reef you want a tight luff on the main, so you make that halyard real snug. I looked at moving my reef hooks to the gooseneck assembly but there just isn't (on mine anyhow) any workable and solid enough place to mount them. If you look at other gooseneck designs, the ones that come with reef hooks are built to have those as part of the design. I moved mine to the very front of the boom extrusion, helped a little, but not enough IMO. There is still more stress than I want to see in reefed conditions on the parts named above. Thus my plan to go back to the OEM setup...and having a mast gate and no need for slug stop in track will be an added benefit. cheers, John On 03/19/2019 02:19 PM, swwheatley@comcast.net wrote:
Your sail track opening has been moved down so the gooseneck would now sit above it. This is a common modification done to address the problem of sail slugs falling out that you mentioned earlier.
You have the cleats right.
The eyestraps and clamcleats are for the o.e. tack reefing system and/or a Cunningham. The o.e. tack reefing system does not work well when the sail track opening is below the gooseneck. Your boat already has the necessary cure, which is a reefing hook on the gooseneck. IMO you don't really need a Cunningham either because it is largely redundant of the gooseneck downhaul.
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 4:39 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: photo attachment test
I haven't tried attaching a photo to a mail list server before. If this works, maybe someone can confirm the intended use of all the attachment points. Is the port lower cleat for jib halyard and starboard for main halyard? Then what about the eye straps on the port side and the composite cleats opposite them on the starboard side? I appreciate all the help!
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I should add that you have turning blocks on deck at the base of the mast that would be used to route the halyards aft (bypassing those mast cleats). I personally think that is an unnecessary complication on such a small boat but some people swear by it. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 4:39 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: photo attachment test I haven't tried attaching a photo to a mail list server before. If this works, maybe someone can confirm the intended use of all the attachment points. Is the port lower cleat for jib halyard and starboard for main halyard? Then what about the eye straps on the port side and the composite cleats opposite them on the starboard side? I appreciate all the help!
I just added main halyard to cockpit last season. For single-handing it is worth it I think, though I did without it for several years, and previous owners obviously never did it. To be able to drop or hoist the main without having to move from helmsman position near front of cockpit, where I have tiller and most all other sail controls in arm's reach, seems safer, if nothing else. And quicker and easier. I put in a CDI furler, otherwise I probably would have run jib halyard to cockpit also. Curious about this, if anyone has seen similar: Some previous owner of my boat added an IMO odd setup for the halyards, where there is a jam cleat (V-cleat) about 4-5 ft up the mast with flared eye strap just above it to guide the line...and then halyards ran to the old style cleats at base of mast. Anyone ever seen this setup before? What the heck is the idea? I can see it as good for tensioning the halyards from below, just pull more tension and the cleat will grab in a new spot...but to slack it one has to pull down and then out enough to clear the cleat. Plus these cleats were barely large enough for the halyards, and were getting worn enough to slip when I got her. cheers, John On 03/19/2019 02:25 PM, swwheatley@comcast.net wrote:
I should add that you have turning blocks on deck at the base of the mast that would be used to route the halyards aft (bypassing those mast cleats). I personally think that is an unnecessary complication on such a small boat but some people swear by it.
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 4:39 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: photo attachment test
I haven't tried attaching a photo to a mail list server before. If this works, maybe someone can confirm the intended use of all the attachment points. Is the port lower cleat for jib halyard and starboard for main halyard? Then what about the eye straps on the port side and the composite cleats opposite them on the starboard side? I appreciate all the help!
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (3)
-
Gerry Lempicki -
John Schinnerer -
swwheatley＠comcast.net