M15 V cleat change ideas
After the first sail, I found that I really need to change the jib sheet V-cleats as they are really worn down and hardly hold the line at all. I'm looking for advice to what would be best and and using the original holes in the cabin. Option 1. Just replace the V cleats with new ones of the same size. The only reason I don't go right out and do this is that the existing ones seem to be made for a min of 5/16 line. Wouldn't it be better to have a Med size one that could accept 1/4" and 5/16" line? I also couldn't find any V cleat at this size with a fairlead built in which seems better to have one then not. Option 2. Get the Medium size V cleat with the fairlead built in. Use some Starboard or hardwood to build a base (maybe even wedge to give a better yank angle). Mount the V-cleat into the wood and the wood into the original holes in the cabin. Option 3. Make a wood base as above but add moving cam cleats like what's used on the mainsheet. Thanks for your advice. Jared "Lil p"
Jared, I changed out my jib cleats for Harken 150 cam cleats with extreme angle fairleads and haven't been sorry. I can sit on the high side near the cabin and still tend the sheet as needed. Yes the hole patterns did not match, but it wasn't much more work to fill the old holes with epoxy since I was over-drilling, epoxy filling and re- drilling the new holes anyhow. You'd have to look pretty close to see where the old holes were. Cheers, George Haiku M15 #385 On Apr 9, 2009, at 11:12 AM, Jared Prindle wrote:
After the first sail, I found that I really need to change the jib sheet V-cleats as they are really worn down and hardly hold the line at all. I'm looking for advice to what would be best and and using the original holes in the cabin.
Option 1. Just replace the V cleats with new ones of the same size. The only reason I don't go right out and do this is that the existing ones seem to be made for a min of 5/16 line. Wouldn't it be better to have a Med size one that could accept 1/4" and 5/16" line? I also couldn't find any V cleat at this size with a fairlead built in which seems better to have one then not.
Option 2. Get the Medium size V cleat with the fairlead built in. Use some Starboard or hardwood to build a base (maybe even wedge to give a better yank angle). Mount the V-cleat into the wood and the wood into the original holes in the cabin.
Option 3. Make a wood base as above but add moving cam cleats like what's used on the mainsheet.
Thanks for your advice. Jared "Lil p"
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Hi Jared, My M15 originally came with the V jam cleats when I bought it. After a few sails, I immediately found that I hated them...., so I replaced them with cam cleats. Reasons: The V cleats require a lot of force to release the jib sheet- the stronger the gust, the more force you need to release the sheets.. If I get hit with an unseen gust, I want to be able to release the jib sheet instantly and easily, and not have to struggle with a jib sheet jammed into a V cleat. I want to be able to get instant jib sheet release just by jerking the jib sheet out of the cam cleat. So, both jib sheet V cleats were replaced with cam cleats, and thereafter life was pleasant, and jib sheets were instantly releasable, whenever I deemed it necessary. My $0.02 worth Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO Jared Prindle wrote:
After the first sail, I found that I really need to change the jib sheet V-cleats as they are really worn down and hardly hold the line at all. I'm looking for advice to what would be best and and using the original holes in the cabin.
Option 1. Just replace the V cleats with new ones of the same size. The only reason I don't go right out and do this is that the existing ones seem to be made for a min of 5/16 line. Wouldn't it be better to have a Med size one that could accept 1/4" and 5/16" line? I also couldn't find any V cleat at this size with a fairlead built in which seems better to have one then not.
Option 2. Get the Medium size V cleat with the fairlead built in. Use some Starboard or hardwood to build a base (maybe even wedge to give a better yank angle). Mount the V-cleat into the wood and the wood into the original holes in the cabin.
Option 3. Make a wood base as above but add moving cam cleats like what's used on the mainsheet.
Thanks for your advice. Jared "Lil p"
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Connie, Did you use cam cleats with the fairleads?? Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: <chbenneck@sbcglobal.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 7:59 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 V cleat change ideas
Hi Jared,
My M15 originally came with the V jam cleats when I bought it.
After a few sails, I immediately found that I hated them...., so I replaced them with cam cleats.
Reasons: The V cleats require a lot of force to release the jib sheet- the stronger the gust, the more force you need to release the sheets.. If I get hit with an unseen gust, I want to be able to release the jib sheet instantly and easily, and not have to struggle with a jib sheet jammed into a V cleat. I want to be able to get instant jib sheet release just by jerking the jib sheet out of the cam cleat.
So, both jib sheet V cleats were replaced with cam cleats, and thereafter life was pleasant, and jib sheets were instantly releasable, whenever I deemed it necessary.
My $0.02 worth
Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO
Jared Prindle wrote:
After the first sail, I found that I really need to change the jib sheet V-cleats as they are really worn down and hardly hold the line at all. I'm looking for advice to what would be best and and using the original holes in the cabin. Option 1. Just replace the V cleats with new ones of the same size. The only reason I don't go right out and do this is that the existing ones seem to be made for a min of 5/16 line. Wouldn't it be better to have a Med size one that could accept 1/4" and 5/16" line? I also couldn't find any V cleat at this size with a fairlead built in which seems better to have one then not.
Option 2. Get the Medium size V cleat with the fairlead built in. Use some Starboard or hardwood to build a base (maybe even wedge to give a better yank angle). Mount the V-cleat into the wood and the wood into the original holes in the cabin.
Option 3. Make a wood base as above but add moving cam cleats like what's used on the mainsheet.
Thanks for your advice. Jared "Lil p"
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Hi Joe, The answer is yes.... I had fairleads on the cam cleats. With fairleads, you are not concerned with incoming jib sheet angle, since the fairlead will than feed the jib sheet directly into the cam cleat. Then, if you want to release the jib sheet, you just give the jib sheet in the cam cleat an upwards yank and it's free to fly - while the jib sheet still remains in place (did you put a figure eight knot in the end?). Jam cleats are fine for hanging fenders but not for a jib sheet where you want instant - and immediate - release in an emergency situation. With a jam cleat, if you are hit by a heavy gust, the pull on the jib sheet just seats the jib sheet more firmly in the "Vee" teeth of the jam cleat. To release it, your force will have to equal the wind gust force, plus some more force to unseat the jib sheet from the "Vee" cleat. I recognized this during our first sail in our M15, and immediately made the change to improve the action of the "emergency brake" Happy sailing, Connie Joe Murphy wrote:
Connie, Did you use cam cleats with the fairleads?? Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: <chbenneck@sbcglobal.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 7:59 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 V cleat change ideas
Hi Jared,
My M15 originally came with the V jam cleats when I bought it.
After a few sails, I immediately found that I hated them...., so I replaced them with cam cleats.
Reasons: The V cleats require a lot of force to release the jib sheet- the stronger the gust, the more force you need to release the sheets.. If I get hit with an unseen gust, I want to be able to release the jib sheet instantly and easily, and not have to struggle with a jib sheet jammed into a V cleat. I want to be able to get instant jib sheet release just by jerking the jib sheet out of the cam cleat.
So, both jib sheet V cleats were replaced with cam cleats, and thereafter life was pleasant, and jib sheets were instantly releasable, whenever I deemed it necessary.
My $0.02 worth
Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO
Jared Prindle wrote:
After the first sail, I found that I really need to change the jib sheet V-cleats as they are really worn down and hardly hold the line at all. I'm looking for advice to what would be best and and using the original holes in the cabin. Option 1. Just replace the V cleats with new ones of the same size. The only reason I don't go right out and do this is that the existing ones seem to be made for a min of 5/16 line. Wouldn't it be better to have a Med size one that could accept 1/4" and 5/16" line? I also couldn't find any V cleat at this size with a fairlead built in which seems better to have one then not.
Option 2. Get the Medium size V cleat with the fairlead built in. Use some Starboard or hardwood to build a base (maybe even wedge to give a better yank angle). Mount the V-cleat into the wood and the wood into the original holes in the cabin.
Option 3. Make a wood base as above but add moving cam cleats like what's used on the mainsheet.
Thanks for your advice. Jared "Lil p"
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Hi Connie, Thanks much for the advice. I'll put this on my "never ending" list of great things to do to an already great boat. I liked the idea someone posted earlier about putting together a single repository of all the great ideas everyone has come up with to modify their Monty's. Regards, Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: <chbenneck@sbcglobal.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 2:50 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 V cleat change ideas
Hi Joe,
The answer is yes.... I had fairleads on the cam cleats.
With fairleads, you are not concerned with incoming jib sheet angle, since the fairlead will than feed the jib sheet directly into the cam cleat.
Then, if you want to release the jib sheet, you just give the jib sheet in the cam cleat an upwards yank and it's free to fly - while the jib sheet still remains in place (did you put a figure eight knot in the end?).
Jam cleats are fine for hanging fenders but not for a jib sheet where you want instant - and immediate - release in an emergency situation. With a jam cleat, if you are hit by a heavy gust, the pull on the jib sheet just seats the jib sheet more firmly in the "Vee" teeth of the jam cleat. To release it, your force will have to equal the wind gust force, plus some more force to unseat the jib sheet from the "Vee" cleat.
I recognized this during our first sail in our M15, and immediately made the change to improve the action of the "emergency brake"
Happy sailing,
Connie
Joe Murphy wrote:
Connie, Did you use cam cleats with the fairleads?? Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: <chbenneck@sbcglobal.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 7:59 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 V cleat change ideas
Hi Jared,
My M15 originally came with the V jam cleats when I bought it.
After a few sails, I immediately found that I hated them...., so I replaced them with cam cleats.
Reasons: The V cleats require a lot of force to release the jib sheet- the stronger the gust, the more force you need to release the sheets.. If I get hit with an unseen gust, I want to be able to release the jib sheet instantly and easily, and not have to struggle with a jib sheet jammed into a V cleat. I want to be able to get instant jib sheet release just by jerking the jib sheet out of the cam cleat.
So, both jib sheet V cleats were replaced with cam cleats, and thereafter life was pleasant, and jib sheets were instantly releasable, whenever I deemed it necessary.
My $0.02 worth
Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO
Jared Prindle wrote:
After the first sail, I found that I really need to change the jib sheet V-cleats as they are really worn down and hardly hold the line at all. I'm looking for advice to what would be best and and using the original holes in the cabin. Option 1. Just replace the V cleats with new ones of the same size. The only reason I don't go right out and do this is that the existing ones seem to be made for a min of 5/16 line. Wouldn't it be better to have a Med size one that could accept 1/4" and 5/16" line? I also couldn't find any V cleat at this size with a fairlead built in which seems better to have one then not.
Option 2. Get the Medium size V cleat with the fairlead built in. Use some Starboard or hardwood to build a base (maybe even wedge to give a better yank angle). Mount the V-cleat into the wood and the wood into the original holes in the cabin.
Option 3. Make a wood base as above but add moving cam cleats like what's used on the mainsheet.
Thanks for your advice. Jared "Lil p"
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Hi Joe, One of the joys of sailing is the "never ending" list of things to do to adapt, or to improve your ship. It starts with things like the minor irritations of sharp bolt ends that manage to snag you as you pass by... Solution: file the ends of the offending bolts smooth and round them off and / or add cap nuts that give you a round end and conceal the last threads that are trying to grab you. Then there are all sorts of living improvements that can be made, depending on the way you use your ship: The low hatch board that will hold your GPS / binoculars / radio and a drink makes single-handing easier. Another special hatch board will allow you to put a small table in the companionway to make it easy to serve lunch while underway (See Archives for the design) - or make one with a screen, which will allow you to sleep in the cabin in summer but keep the bugs out. Sail locker organization: a tall narrow milk crate makes a great holder for your anchor / chain / and rode. One quart oil containers are great for gasoline storage for the Honda outboard - their size and the small opening with a neck makes them very handy for refueling underway - with no spillage, and they are easy to stow. ... and so it goes. Boats force you to become inventive to solve your sailing / anchoring / or docking / living on board problems, and that is an added joy to the sport. Enjoy the challenges Connie Joe Murphy wrote:
Hi Connie, Thanks much for the advice. I'll put this on my "never ending" list of great things to do to an already great boat. I liked the idea someone posted earlier about putting together a single repository of all the great ideas everyone has come up with to modify their Monty's. Regards, Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: <chbenneck@sbcglobal.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 2:50 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 V cleat change ideas
Hi Joe,
The answer is yes.... I had fairleads on the cam cleats.
With fairleads, you are not concerned with incoming jib sheet angle, since the fairlead will than feed the jib sheet directly into the cam cleat.
Then, if you want to release the jib sheet, you just give the jib sheet in the cam cleat an upwards yank and it's free to fly - while the jib sheet still remains in place (did you put a figure eight knot in the end?).
Jam cleats are fine for hanging fenders but not for a jib sheet where you want instant - and immediate - release in an emergency situation. With a jam cleat, if you are hit by a heavy gust, the pull on the jib sheet just seats the jib sheet more firmly in the "Vee" teeth of the jam cleat. To release it, your force will have to equal the wind gust force, plus some more force to unseat the jib sheet from the "Vee" cleat.
I recognized this during our first sail in our M15, and immediately made the change to improve the action of the "emergency brake"
Happy sailing,
Connie
Joe Murphy wrote:
Connie, Did you use cam cleats with the fairleads?? Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: <chbenneck@sbcglobal.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 7:59 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 V cleat change ideas
Hi Jared,
My M15 originally came with the V jam cleats when I bought it.
After a few sails, I immediately found that I hated them...., so I replaced them with cam cleats.
Reasons: The V cleats require a lot of force to release the jib sheet- the stronger the gust, the more force you need to release the sheets.. If I get hit with an unseen gust, I want to be able to release the jib sheet instantly and easily, and not have to struggle with a jib sheet jammed into a V cleat. I want to be able to get instant jib sheet release just by jerking the jib sheet out of the cam cleat.
So, both jib sheet V cleats were replaced with cam cleats, and thereafter life was pleasant, and jib sheets were instantly releasable, whenever I deemed it necessary.
My $0.02 worth
Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO
Jared Prindle wrote:
After the first sail, I found that I really need to change the jib sheet V-cleats as they are really worn down and hardly hold the line at all. I'm looking for advice to what would be best and and using the original holes in the cabin. Option 1. Just replace the V cleats with new ones of the same size. The only reason I don't go right out and do this is that the existing ones seem to be made for a min of 5/16 line. Wouldn't it be better to have a Med size one that could accept 1/4" and 5/16" line? I also couldn't find any V cleat at this size with a fairlead built in which seems better to have one then not.
Option 2. Get the Medium size V cleat with the fairlead built in. Use some Starboard or hardwood to build a base (maybe even wedge to give a better yank angle). Mount the V-cleat into the wood and the wood into the original holes in the cabin.
Option 3. Make a wood base as above but add moving cam cleats like what's used on the mainsheet.
Thanks for your advice. Jared "Lil p"
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I replaced mine with the same size alumninm version and they did not last a full season. I then did a variation of your option 3 and I have been quite happy with it. I did not use the rotating cleats but used a fixed cam cleat with the wide angle sheet leads from Harken. They have been in place for 4 years and they work great. Thanks Doug Kelch --- On Thu, 4/9/09, Jared Prindle <jared@tonyhawk.com> wrote: From: Jared Prindle <jared@tonyhawk.com> Subject: M_Boats: M15 V cleat change ideas To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 2:12 PM After the first sail, I found that I really need to change the jib sheet V-cleats as they are really worn down and hardly hold the line at all. I'm looking for advice to what would be best and and using the original holes in the cabin. Option 1. Just replace the V cleats with new ones of the same size. The only reason I don't go right out and do this is that the existing ones seem to be made for a min of 5/16 line. Wouldn't it be better to have a Med size one that could accept 1/4" and 5/16" line? I also couldn't find any V cleat at this size with a fairlead built in which seems better to have one then not. Option 2. Get the Medium size V cleat with the fairlead built in. Use some Starboard or hardwood to build a base (maybe even wedge to give a better yank angle). Mount the V-cleat into the wood and the wood into the original holes in the cabin. Option 3. Make a wood base as above but add moving cam cleats like what's used on the mainsheet. Thanks for your advice. Jared "Lil p" _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
What are 'wide angle sheet leads'? How do I search on them? Thanks, Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Kelch" <doug_kelch@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 8:52 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 V cleat change ideas I replaced mine with the same size alumninm version and they did not last a full season. I then did a variation of your option 3 and I have been quite happy with it. I did not use the rotating cleats but used a fixed cam cleat with the wide angle sheet leads from Harken. They have been in place for 4 years and they work great. Thanks Doug Kelch --- On Thu, 4/9/09, Jared Prindle <jared@tonyhawk.com> wrote: From: Jared Prindle <jared@tonyhawk.com> Subject: M_Boats: M15 V cleat change ideas To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 2:12 PM After the first sail, I found that I really need to change the jib sheet V-cleats as they are really worn down and hardly hold the line at all. I'm looking for advice to what would be best and and using the original holes in the cabin. Option 1. Just replace the V cleats with new ones of the same size. The only reason I don't go right out and do this is that the existing ones seem to be made for a min of 5/16 line. Wouldn't it be better to have a Med size one that could accept 1/4" and 5/16" line? I also couldn't find any V cleat at this size with a fairlead built in which seems better to have one then not. Option 2. Get the Medium size V cleat with the fairlead built in. Use some Starboard or hardwood to build a base (maybe even wedge to give a better yank angle). Mount the V-cleat into the wood and the wood into the original holes in the cabin. Option 3. Make a wood base as above but add moving cam cleats like what's used on the mainsheet. Thanks for your advice. Jared "Lil p" _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/... Or go to the West Marine web page, search on harken cleats you will see a picture at the bottom right corner. Paper West Marine 2009 catalog page 670. It is called an extreme angle fairlead. It is actually number 476 or 375 in the list. Micro or standard cam cleat fits inside of it so you have to already have the cam cleat or you need to buy both. It lets me release the jib sheet when heeled without moving to the lee side. Thanks Doug --- On Fri, 4/10/09, Joe Murphy <seagray@embarqmail.com> wrote: From: Joe Murphy <seagray@embarqmail.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 V cleat change ideas To: doug_kelch@yahoo.com, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, April 10, 2009, 8:44 AM What are 'wide angle sheet leads'? How do I search on them? Thanks, Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Kelch" <doug_kelch@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2009 8:52 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 V cleat change ideas I replaced mine with the same size alumninm version and they did not last a full season. I then did a variation of your option 3 and I have been quite happy with it. I did not use the rotating cleats but used a fixed cam cleat with the wide angle sheet leads from Harken. They have been in place for 4 years and they work great. Thanks Doug Kelch --- On Thu, 4/9/09, Jared Prindle <jared@tonyhawk.com> wrote: From: Jared Prindle <jared@tonyhawk.com> Subject: M_Boats: M15 V cleat change ideas To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Date: Thursday, April 9, 2009, 2:12 PM After the first sail, I found that I really need to change the jib sheet V-cleats as they are really worn down and hardly hold the line at all. I'm looking for advice to what would be best and and using the original holes in the cabin. Option 1. Just replace the V cleats with new ones of the same size. The only reason I don't go right out and do this is that the existing ones seem to be made for a min of 5/16 line. Wouldn't it be better to have a Med size one that could accept 1/4" and 5/16" line? I also couldn't find any V cleat at this size with a fairlead built in which seems better to have one then not. Option 2. Get the Medium size V cleat with the fairlead built in. Use some Starboard or hardwood to build a base (maybe even wedge to give a better yank angle). Mount the V-cleat into the wood and the wood into the original holes in the cabin. Option 3. Make a wood base as above but add moving cam cleats like what's used on the mainsheet. Thanks for your advice. Jared "Lil p" _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Jared, I have gone through two sets of V-cleats on my 1984 M-15 in the 15 years I have owned her. About 5 years ago I switched to carbon fiber C-Cleats, which I like much better and they don't seem to wear out. I mounted a teak block base on the cabin roof using the holes from the original V-Cleats, so I did not have to drill new holes, and placed the new C-Cleats on the block. I have a medium sized cleat for the jib sheet and a small C-Cleat for the jib downhaul and Main backstay. I use the jib downhaul when raising/lowering the mast, and the Main backstay to raise the boom while anchored. I have never used a fairlead on the jib sheet, but I think it would be nothing but trouble. When tacking, the free jib sheet can often find ways to catch on something when pulling the jib across; adding a fairlead would almost guarantee a hangup. And stay with the 5/16" line. When its blowing it can be really, really hard to ease the jib sheet and you will want the thicker line to pull on. My 2 cents worth. Good luck, Bob M15 #208 Jared Prindle wrote:
After the first sail, I found that I really need to change the jib sheet V-cleats as they are really worn down and hardly hold the line at all. I'm looking for advice to what would be best and and using the original holes in the cabin.
Option 1. Just replace the V cleats with new ones of the same size. The only reason I don't go right out and do this is that the existing ones seem to be made for a min of 5/16 line. Wouldn't it be better to have a Med size one that could accept 1/4" and 5/16" line? I also couldn't find any V cleat at this size with a fairlead built in which seems better to have one then not.
Option 2. Get the Medium size V cleat with the fairlead built in. Use some Starboard or hardwood to build a base (maybe even wedge to give a better yank angle). Mount the V-cleat into the wood and the wood into the original holes in the cabin.
Option 3. Make a wood base as above but add moving cam cleats like what's used on the mainsheet.
Thanks for your advice. Jared "Lil p"
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participants (6)
-
chbenneck＠sbcglobal.net -
Doug Kelch -
George Burmeyer -
Jared Prindle -
Joe Murphy -
Robert Becker