Anybody have experience with these things? Out for a second sail of the season on Chatfield Res south of Denver on a chilly, misty May Day, my companion Mike got me to set up the spinnaker pole to the jib on a run. We were admiring how well it worked in the 4 to 5 mph wind, running wing on wing. Probably in first stage hypothermia, I recalled William Snaith writing in The Wind's Way about running with the centerboard up to reduce wetted area, during his early 60's trans-atlantic race on Figaro III (he won). So I tried that myself. I got a full extra knot out of my M17. So, question: what other centerboard tricks don't I know? (I have already learned that I tack less at anchor with the centerboard up, and that I "sag to leeward like a pig" when I forget to lower it on a reach.) Second question, for anyone who might have tried it: coming into the docks with almost no wind, we discussed and tried sculling our way to the dock using the Ida-Sail rudder, brought up to just under the surface of the water. It makes a pretty powerful scull. (One of my personal challenges is to sail to and away from the dock with no engine, if possible.) Darned if it didn't work a treat. Anything someone knows about this technique, aside from strain on the tiller head, which I found myself watching, I'd love to hear it. Especially any cautions. As a second season sailor, I need to collect warnings. Thanks, David (M17 #393)
David, This is great news. I have used that sculling technique for 30 years on my old Potter with a similar (but less robust) kickup rudder, but I thought the 17 would be too heavy to move. You did the experiment for us. As for sailing into a dock, I ran my Potter without a motor for 20 years, and it is fun (and occasionally challenging, and dare I say green) to dock with wind alone. The problem comes with a hairy tailwind that gets you cranking toward the dock under bare poles. Steering with one hand while getting a line around a dock cleat can get the adrenaline pumping, because you are never allowed to miss. I finally left a short line attached to the dock cleat and grabbed it on the way in (you need a longish slip), but it darn near pulls your arm off if you don't get a loop around the stern cleat at just the right moment. If you have a cleat near your shrouds, it is easier to stop on a short finger, but the stern lurches to port when the line comes up short, and you need a second line from the stern cleat. Repeatedly pulling to a stop alongside a buoy from every wind direction has always been a mandatory exercise for me, because sail handling around hard objects is so much more consequential than it is in free water. Now I have a larger, heavier, and more pristine boat that I don't want to scratch, so I will have to practice even harder. Sorry about going on about this; it is probably all obvious. I guess it is time to go sailing. Tom Jenkins 2004 M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David C. Patterson" <davidcpatterson@msn.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 11:34 AM Subject: M_Boats: Raising the centerboard on a run; sculling with an IDA-SAIL rudder
Anybody have experience with these things? Out for a second sail of the season on Chatfield Res south of Denver on a chilly, misty May Day, my companion Mike got me to set up the spinnaker pole to the jib on a run. We were admiring how well it worked in the 4 to 5 mph wind, running wing on wing. Probably in first stage hypothermia, I recalled William Snaith writing in The Wind's Way about running with the centerboard up to reduce wetted area, during his early 60's trans-atlantic race on Figaro III (he won). So I tried that myself. I got a full extra knot out of my M17. So, question: what other centerboard tricks don't I know? (I have already learned that I tack less at anchor with the centerboard up, and that I "sag to leeward like a pig" when I forget to lower it on a reach.) Second question, for anyone who might have tried it: coming into the docks with almost no wind, we discussed and tried sculling our way to the dock using the Ida-Sail rudder, brought up to just under the surface of the water. It makes a pretty powerful scull. (One of my personal challenges is to sail to and away from the dock with no engine, if possible.) Darned if it didn't work a treat. Anything someone knows about this technique, aside from strain on the tiller head, which I found myself watching, I'd love to hear it. Especially any cautions. As a second season sailor, I need to collect warnings. Thanks, David (M17 #393)
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Good stuff, guys. A dock line around the M17 sheet winch can stop the boat without skewing it much, at least some times! Now I have a long dock and can do a U-turn to it at the last moment which slows the boat nicely. --Gary ☺ On May 2, 2009, at 1:20 PM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
David,
This is great news. I have used that sculling technique for 30 years on my old Potter with a similar (but less robust) kickup rudder, but I thought the 17 would be too heavy to move. You did the experiment for us. As for sailing into a dock, I ran my Potter without a motor for 20 years, and it is fun (and occasionally challenging, and dare I say green) to dock with wind alone. The problem comes with a hairy tailwind that gets you cranking toward the dock under bare poles. Steering with one hand while getting a line around a dock cleat can get the adrenaline pumping, because you are never allowed to miss. I finally left a short line attached to the dock cleat and grabbed it on the way in (you need a longish slip), but it darn near pulls your arm off if you don't get a loop around the stern cleat at just the right moment. If you have a cleat near your shrouds, it is easier to stop on a short finger, but the stern lurches to port when the line comes up short, and you need a second line from the stern cleat. Repeatedly pulling to a stop alongside a buoy from every wind direction has always been a mandatory exercise for me, because sail handling around hard objects is so much more consequential than it is in free water. Now I have a larger, heavier, and more pristine boat that I don't want to scratch, so I will have to practice even harder. Sorry about going on about this; it is probably all obvious. I guess it is time to go sailing.
Tom Jenkins 2004 M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: "David C. Patterson" <davidcpatterson@msn.com
To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 11:34 AM Subject: M_Boats: Raising the centerboard on a run; sculling with an IDA-SAIL rudder
Anybody have experience with these things? Out for a second sail of the season on Chatfield Res south of Denver on a chilly, misty May Day, my companion Mike got me to set up the spinnaker pole to the jib on a run. We were admiring how well it worked in the 4 to 5 mph wind, running wing on wing. Probably in first stage hypothermia, I recalled William Snaith writing in The Wind's Way about running with the centerboard up to reduce wetted area, during his early 60's trans-atlantic race on Figaro III (he won). So I tried that myself. I got a full extra knot out of my M17. So, question: what other centerboard tricks don't I know? (I have already learned that I tack less at anchor with the centerboard up, and that I "sag to leeward like a pig" when I forget to lower it on a reach.) Second question, for anyone who might have tried it: coming into the docks with almost no wind, we discussed and tried sculling our way to the dock using the Ida-Sail rudder, brought up to just under the surface of the water. It makes a pretty powerful scull. (One of my personal challenges is to sail to and away from the dock with no engine, if possible.) Darned if it didn't work a treat. Anything someone knows about this technique, aside from strain on the tiller head, which I found myself watching, I'd love to hear it. Especially any cautions. As a second season sailor, I need to collect warnings. Thanks, David (M17 #393)
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I have heard that a bucket pitched out and then a turn on a cleat or wench will stop a small boat. I haven't tried it yet but I will. At your service Larry Pegg Pilgrim M-17 #55 -----Original Message----- From: Gary M Hyde <gmhyde1@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sun, 3 May 2009 2:34 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Raising the centerboard on a run; sculling with an IDA-SAIL rudder Good stuff, guys. A dock line around the M17 sheet winch can stop the boat without skewing it much, at least some times! Now I have a long dock and can do a U-turn to it at the last moment which slows the boat nicely. --Gary ☺ On May 2, 2009, at 1:20 PM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
David,
This is great news. I have used that sculling technique for 30 > years on my old Potter with a similar (but less robust) kickup > rudder, but I thought the 17 would be too heavy to move. You did > the experiment for us. As for sailing into a dock, I ran my Potter > without a motor for 20 years, and it is fun (and occasionally > challenging, and dare I say green) to dock with wind alone. The > problem comes with a hairy tailwind that gets you cranking toward > the dock under bare poles. Steering with one hand while getting a > line around a dock cleat can get the adrenaline pumping, becaus e you > are never allowed to miss. I finally left a short line attached to > the dock cleat and grabbed it on the way in (you need a longish > slip), but it darn near pulls your arm off if you don't get a loop > around the stern cleat at just the right moment. If you have a > cleat near your shrouds, it is easier to stop on a short finger, but > the stern lurches to port when the line comes up short, and you need > a second line from the stern cleat.
Repeatedly pulling to a stop alongside a buoy from every wind > direction has always been a mandatory exercise for me, because sail > handling around hard objects is so much more consequential than it > is in free water. Now I have a larger, heavier, and more pristine > boat that I don't want to scratch, so I will have to practice even > harder.
Sorry about going on about this; it is probably all obvious. I > guess it is time to go sailing.
Tom Jenkins
2004 M17
----- Original Message ----- From: "David C. Patterson" <davidcpatterson@msn.com> >
To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 11:34 AM
Subject: M_Boats: Raising the centerboard on a run; sculling with an > IDA-SAIL rudder
Anybody have experience with these things? Out for a second sail >> of the
season on Chatfield Res south of Denver on a chilly, misty May Day, >> my
companion Mike got me20to set up the spinnaker pole to the jib on a >> run. We
were admiring how well it worked in the 4 to 5 mph wind, running >> wing on
wing. Probably in first stage hypothermia, I recalled William Snaith
writing in The Wind's Way about running with the centerboard up to >> reduce
wetted area, during his early 60's trans-atlantic race on Figaro >> III (he
won). So I tried that myself. I got a full extra knot out of my >> M17. So,
question: what other centerboard tricks don't I know? (I have >> already
learned that I tack less at anchor with the centerboard up, and >> that I "sag
to leeward like a pig" when I forget to lower it on a reach.) Second
question, for anyone who might have tried it: coming into the docks >> with
almost no wind, we discussed and tried sculling our way to the dock >> using
the Ida-Sail rudder, brought up to just under the surface of the >> water. It
makes a pretty powerful scull. (One of my personal challenges is >> to sail to
and away from the dock with no engine, if possible.) Darned if it >> didn't
work a treat. Anything someone knows about this technique, aside >> from
strain on the tiller head, which I found myself watching, I'd love >> to hear
it. Especially any cautions. As a second season sailor, I need to >> collect
warnings. Thanks,=2 0David (M17 #393)
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larrypegg@aol.com wrote:
I have heard that a bucket pitched out and then a turn on a cleat or wench will stop a small boat. I haven't tried it yet but I will.
At your service
Larry Pegg
Pilgrim M-17 #55
-----Original Message----- From: Gary M Hyde <gmhyde1@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sun, 3 May 2009 2:34 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Raising the centerboard on a run; sculling with an IDA-SAIL rudder
Good stuff, guys.
A dock line around the M17 sheet winch can stop the boat without skewing it much, at least some times!
Now I have a long dock and can do a U-turn to it at the last moment which slows the boat nicely.
--Gary ☺
On May 2, 2009, at 1:20 PM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
David,
This is great news. I have used that sculling technique for 30 > years on my old Potter with a similar (but less robust) kickup > rudder, but I thought the 17 would be too heavy to move. You did > the experiment for us. As for sailing into a dock, I ran my Potter > without a motor for 20 years, and it is fun (and occasionally > challenging, and dare I say green) to dock with wind alone. The > problem comes with a hairy tailwind that gets you cranking toward > the dock under bare poles. Steering with one hand while getting a > line around a dock cleat can get the adrenaline pumping, becaus
e you > are never allowed to miss. I finally left a short line attached to > the dock cleat and grabbed it on the way in (you need a longish > slip), but it darn near pulls your arm off if you don't get a loop > around the stern cleat at just the right moment. If you have a > cleat near your shrouds, it is easier to stop on a short finger, but > the stern lurches to port when the line comes up short, and you need > a second line from the stern cleat.
Repeatedly pulling to a stop alongside a buoy from every wind > direction has always been a mandatory exercise for me, because sail > handling around hard objects is so much more consequential than it > is in free water. Now I have a larger, heavier, and more pristine > boat that I don't want to scratch, so I will have to practice even > harder.
Sorry about going on about this; it is probably all obvious. I > guess it is time to go sailing.
Tom Jenkins
2004 M17
----- Original Message ----- From: "David C. Patterson" <davidcpatterson@msn.com> >
To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 11:34 AM
Subject: M_Boats: Raising the centerboard on a run; sculling with an > IDA-SAIL rudder
Anybody have experience with these things? Out for a second sail >> of the
season on Chatfield Res south of Denver on a chilly, misty May Day, >> my
companion Mike got me20to set up the spinnaker pole to the jib on a >> run. We
were admiring how well it worked in the 4 to 5 mph wind, running >> wing on
wing. Probably in first stage hypothermia, I recalled William Snaith
writing in The Wind's Way about running with the centerboard up to >> reduce
wetted area, during his early 60's trans-atlantic race on Figaro >> III (he
won). So I tried that myself. I got a full extra knot out of my >> M17. So,
question: what other centerboard tricks don't I know? (I have >> already
learned that I tack less at anchor with the centerboard up, and >> that I "sag
to leeward like a pig" when I forget to lower it on a reach.) Second
question, for anyone who might have tried it: coming into the docks >> with
almost no wind, we discussed and tried sculling our way to the dock >> using
the Ida-Sail rudder, brought up to just under the surface of the >> water. It
makes a pretty powerful scull. (One of my personal challenges is >> to sail to
and away from the dock with no engine, if possible.) Darned if it >> didn't
work a treat. Anything someone knows about this technique, aside >> from
strain on the tiller head, which I found myself watching, I'd love >> to hear
it. Especially any cautions. As a second season sailor, I need to >> collect
warnings. Thanks,=2
0David (M17 #393)
_______________________________________________
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Hi Larry, A good looking wench will always stop a boat..... Connie
A "wench" stops my boat e-v-e-r-y time. ; ) AAArrrrrrrrrrrrr -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Conbert H. Benneck Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 11:40 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Raising the centerboard on a run; sculling with an IDA-SAIL rudder larrypegg@aol.com wrote:
I have heard that a bucket pitched out and then a turn on a cleat or wench will stop a small boat. I haven't tried it yet but I will.
At your service
Larry Pegg
Pilgrim M-17 #55
-----Original Message----- From: Gary M Hyde <gmhyde1@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sun, 3 May 2009 2:34 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Raising the centerboard on a run; sculling with an IDA-SAIL rudder
Good stuff, guys.
A dock line around the M17 sheet winch can stop the boat without skewing it much, at least some times!
Now I have a long dock and can do a U-turn to it at the last moment which slows the boat nicely.
--Gary ☺
On May 2, 2009, at 1:20 PM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
David,
This is great news. I have used that sculling technique for 30 > years on my old Potter with a similar (but less robust) kickup > rudder, but I thought the 17 would be too heavy to move. You did > the experiment for us. As for sailing into a dock, I ran my Potter > without a motor for 20 years, and it is fun (and occasionally > challenging, and dare I say green) to dock with wind alone. The > problem comes with a hairy tailwind that gets you cranking toward > the dock under bare poles. Steering with one hand while getting a > line around a dock cleat can get the adrenaline pumping, becaus
e you > are never allowed to miss. I finally left a short line attached to > the dock cleat and grabbed it on the way in (you need a longish > slip), but it darn near pulls your arm off if you don't get a loop > around the stern cleat at just the right moment. If you have a > cleat near your shrouds, it is easier to stop on a short finger, but > the stern lurches to port when the line comes up short, and you need > a second line from the stern cleat.
Repeatedly pulling to a stop alongside a buoy from every wind > direction has always been a mandatory exercise for me, because sail > handling around hard objects is so much more consequential than it > is in free water. Now I have a larger, heavier, and more pristine > boat that I don't want to scratch, so I will have to practice even > harder.
Sorry about going on about this; it is probably all obvious. I > guess it is time to go sailing.
Tom Jenkins
2004 M17
----- Original Message ----- From: "David C. Patterson" <davidcpatterson@msn.com> >
To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 11:34 AM
Subject: M_Boats: Raising the centerboard on a run; sculling with an
IDA-SAIL rudder
Anybody have experience with these things? Out for a second sail >> of the
season on Chatfield Res south of Denver on a chilly, misty May Day,
my
companion Mike got me20to set up the spinnaker pole to the jib on a
run. We
were admiring how well it worked in the 4 to 5 mph wind, running >> wing on
wing. Probably in first stage hypothermia, I recalled William Snaith
writing in The Wind's Way about running with the centerboard up to
reduce
wetted area, during his early 60's trans-atlantic race on Figaro >> III (he
won). So I tried that myself. I got a full extra knot out of my >> M17. So,
question: what other centerboard tricks don't I know? (I have >> already
learned that I tack less at anchor with the centerboard up, and >> that I "sag
to leeward like a pig" when I forget to lower it on a reach.) Second
question, for anyone who might have tried it: coming into the docks
with
almost no wind, we discussed and tried sculling our way to the dock
using
the Ida-Sail rudder, brought up to just under the surface of the >> water. It
makes a pretty powerful scull. (One of my personal challenges is >> to sail to
and away from the dock with no engine, if possible.) Darned if it
didn't
work a treat. Anything someone knows about this technique, aside >> from
strain on the tiller head, which I found myself watching, I'd love
to hear
it. Especially any cautions. As a second season sailor, I need to
collect
warnings. Thanks,=2
0David (M17 #393)
_______________________________________________
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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_______________________________________________
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Hi Larry, A good looking wench will always stop a boat..... Connie _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Now you're talking. I knew they were good for something besides emergency fenders :). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hughston, Larry" <Larry.Hughston@dgs.ca.gov> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 3:58 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Raising the centerboard on a run; sculling with an IDA-SAIL rudder
A "wench" stops my boat e-v-e-r-y time. ; ) AAArrrrrrrrrrrrr
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Conbert H. Benneck Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 11:40 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Raising the centerboard on a run; sculling with an IDA-SAIL rudder
larrypegg@aol.com wrote:
I have heard that a bucket pitched out and then a turn on a cleat or wench will stop a small boat. I haven't tried it yet but I will.
At your service
Larry Pegg
Pilgrim M-17 #55
-----Original Message----- From: Gary M Hyde <gmhyde1@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sun, 3 May 2009 2:34 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Raising the centerboard on a run; sculling with an IDA-SAIL rudder
Good stuff, guys.
A dock line around the M17 sheet winch can stop the boat without skewing it much, at least some times!
Now I have a long dock and can do a U-turn to it at the last moment which slows the boat nicely.
--Gary ☺
On May 2, 2009, at 1:20 PM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
David,
This is great news. I have used that sculling technique for 30 > years on my old Potter with a similar (but less robust) kickup > rudder, but I thought the 17 would be too heavy to move. You did > the experiment for us. As for sailing into a dock, I ran my Potter > without a motor for 20 years, and it is fun (and occasionally > challenging, and dare I say green) to dock with wind alone. The > problem comes with a hairy tailwind that gets you cranking toward > the dock under bare poles. Steering with one hand while getting a > line around a dock cleat can get the adrenaline pumping, becaus
e you > are never allowed to miss. I finally left a short line attached to > the dock cleat and grabbed it on the way in (you need a longish > slip), but it darn near pulls your arm off if you don't get a loop > around the stern cleat at just the right moment. If you have a > cleat near your shrouds, it is easier to stop on a short finger, but > the stern lurches to port when the line comes up short, and you need > a second line from the stern cleat.
Repeatedly pulling to a stop alongside a buoy from every wind > direction has always been a mandatory exercise for me, because sail > handling around hard objects is so much more consequential than it > is in free water. Now I have a larger, heavier, and more pristine > boat that I don't want to scratch, so I will have to practice even > harder.
Sorry about going on about this; it is probably all obvious. I > guess it is time to go sailing.
Tom Jenkins
2004 M17
----- Original Message ----- From: "David C. Patterson" <davidcpatterson@msn.com> >
To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2009 11:34 AM
Subject: M_Boats: Raising the centerboard on a run; sculling with an
IDA-SAIL rudder
Anybody have experience with these things? Out for a second sail >> of the
season on Chatfield Res south of Denver on a chilly, misty May Day,
my
companion Mike got me20to set up the spinnaker pole to the jib on a
run. We
were admiring how well it worked in the 4 to 5 mph wind, running >> wing on
wing. Probably in first stage hypothermia, I recalled William Snaith
writing in The Wind's Way about running with the centerboard up to
reduce
wetted area, during his early 60's trans-atlantic race on Figaro >> III (he
won). So I tried that myself. I got a full extra knot out of my >> M17. So,
question: what other centerboard tricks don't I know? (I have >> already
learned that I tack less at anchor with the centerboard up, and >> that I "sag
to leeward like a pig" when I forget to lower it on a reach.) Second
question, for anyone who might have tried it: coming into the docks
with
almost no wind, we discussed and tried sculling our way to the dock
using
the Ida-Sail rudder, brought up to just under the surface of the >> water. It
makes a pretty powerful scull. (One of my personal challenges is >> to sail to
and away from the dock with no engine, if possible.) Darned if it
didn't
work a treat. Anything someone knows about this technique, aside >> from
strain on the tiller head, which I found myself watching, I'd love
to hear
it. Especially any cautions. As a second season sailor, I need to
collect
warnings. Thanks,=2
0David (M17 #393)
_______________________________________________
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Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Hi Larry,
A good looking wench will always stop a boat.....
Connie
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participants (6)
-
Conbert H. Benneck -
David C. Patterson -
Gary M Hyde -
Hughston, Larry -
larrypegg＠aol.com -
Tom Jenkins