How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope? How much chain do you carry? Thanks Capt Jim Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
So far I have just marked anchor rode intervals with a thick black permanent marking pen ("Sharpie" or similar). It fades out after a while but it's pretty quick & easy to just re-mark. The more durable/long lasting and more visible way I have seen (and may do some day :-) is to get some bright colored tubular nylon webbing, 1/2" or 3/8" will do, cut short pieces with a hot knife (or heat seal ends some other way after cutting), and weave the pieces thru the rode at the desired intervals with a bit sticking out (assuming 3-strand rode, which is easy to do this with). cheers, John On 2/20/24 22:45, Jim Sadler wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Whipping twine works nicely and available in all the colors of the rainbow. It’s good for holding together the ends of all your halyards and jib sheets etc too. On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 11:05 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
So far I have just marked anchor rode intervals with a thick black permanent marking pen ("Sharpie" or similar). It fades out after a while but it's pretty quick & easy to just re-mark.
The more durable/long lasting and more visible way I have seen (and may do some day :-) is to get some bright colored tubular nylon webbing, 1/2" or 3/8" will do, cut short pieces with a hot knife (or heat seal ends some other way after cutting), and weave the pieces thru the rode at the desired intervals with a bit sticking out (assuming 3-strand rode, which is easy to do this with).
cheers, John
On 2/20/24 22:45, Jim Sadler wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Great idea, I didn't even think about colored whipping twine! (I just use waxed sail thread for whipping line ends 'cause I have some already and it sticks well when pulled under itself due to waxiness). cheers, John On 2/21/24 09:37, Jason Leckie wrote:
Whipping twine works nicely and available in all the colors of the rainbow. It’s good for holding together the ends of all your halyards and jib sheets etc too.
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 11:05 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
So far I have just marked anchor rode intervals with a thick black permanent marking pen ("Sharpie" or similar). It fades out after a while but it's pretty quick & easy to just re-mark.
The more durable/long lasting and more visible way I have seen (and may do some day :-) is to get some bright colored tubular nylon webbing, 1/2" or 3/8" will do, cut short pieces with a hot knife (or heat seal ends some other way after cutting), and weave the pieces thru the rode at the desired intervals with a bit sticking out (assuming 3-strand rode, which is easy to do this with).
cheers, John
On 2/20/24 22:45, Jim Sadler wrote: > How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope? > > How much chain do you carry? > > Thanks > > Capt Jim > > Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net <mailto:john@eco-living.net> - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net <http://eco-living.net> http://sociocracyconsulting.com <http://sociocracyconsulting.com>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed. So yes can tie together 600' of rope. Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope. Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit! :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
Re chain... My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.). Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode. cheers, John All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose. On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John. SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Yep, that's what "they" say, whoever "they" are...:-) There are other perspectives out there - as Groucho famously said, "Those are my principles! If you don't like them...I have others!" Silliness aside, for my uses to date, it makes zero sense to wrestle with 17 ft of chain to no benefit and much extra weight and muddiness. And when I'm eventually cruising more challenging tidal waters I'll have approximately as much chain as "they" say. Some point out that boat length per se has little to do with how the anchor, chain, rode, and lake/sea bottom actually interact. And boat length does not necessarily correlate to boat weight and/or windage (think multi-hulls; unballasted camp cruisers; expedition loaded vs. day-sailing; chunky pilot house motor-sailors vs. low-slung minimum-windage designs; etc.). It's a bit like choosing anchor size, to me. Most manufacturer charts are based on very generic assumptions about boat size and weight correlation. Works well perhaps for medium to huge ballasted monohulls. But what if one's boat doesn't fit those standard assumptions? M17s often don't - they tend to be in one length category, but a different displacement category. We can say "when in doubt go bigger," but what about the possible downsides of trying to manage an oversized, overweight anchor on a small boat? Just some thoughts to ponder. I'm all for reason-and-testing backed SOP, but not much for Stale Old Protocol. cheers, John On 2/21/24 15:48, Dave Scobie wrote:
John.
SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
" On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Hi John: "They' are professional and liveaboard boaters and cruisers (aka myself). The reason is the greater weight and therefore better bite angle for the anchor and to keep wear on the rope to a minimum (or none). Around the Salish Sea the rocks and barnacles will quickly saw through rope. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 16:44 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Yep, that's what "they" say, whoever "they" are...:-)
There are other perspectives out there - as Groucho famously said, "Those are my principles! If you don't like them...I have others!"
Silliness aside, for my uses to date, it makes zero sense to wrestle with 17 ft of chain to no benefit and much extra weight and muddiness. And when I'm eventually cruising more challenging tidal waters I'll have approximately as much chain as "they" say.
Some point out that boat length per se has little to do with how the anchor, chain, rode, and lake/sea bottom actually interact. And boat length does not necessarily correlate to boat weight and/or windage (think multi-hulls; unballasted camp cruisers; expedition loaded vs. day-sailing; chunky pilot house motor-sailors vs. low-slung minimum-windage designs; etc.).
It's a bit like choosing anchor size, to me. Most manufacturer charts are based on very generic assumptions about boat size and weight correlation. Works well perhaps for medium to huge ballasted monohulls. But what if one's boat doesn't fit those standard assumptions? M17s often don't - they tend to be in one length category, but a different displacement category. We can say "when in doubt go bigger," but what about the possible downsides of trying to manage an oversized, overweight anchor on a small boat?
Just some thoughts to ponder. I'm all for reason-and-testing backed SOP, but not much for Stale Old Protocol.
cheers, John
On 2/21/24 15:48, Dave Scobie wrote:
John.
SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
" On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
And another thought: For people who lift anchor every day, they can't help but continually inspect their rode but it's onlygoing to be 24 hours worth of wear, but for big time cruisers...heck I could imagine that they don't even see their anchor for weeks or months,so naturally they worry more, because it's potentially more time to wear things down....and they might not even be able to seethe damage done.....So having lot's of chain means less worry. Anyway, I'm just hypothesizing. On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 05:01:45 PM PST, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote: Hi John: "They' are professional and liveaboard boaters and cruisers (aka myself). The reason is the greater weight and therefore better bite angle for the anchor and to keep wear on the rope to a minimum (or none). Around the Salish Sea the rocks and barnacles will quickly saw through rope. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 16:44 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Yep, that's what "they" say, whoever "they" are...:-)
There are other perspectives out there - as Groucho famously said, "Those are my principles! If you don't like them...I have others!"
Silliness aside, for my uses to date, it makes zero sense to wrestle with 17 ft of chain to no benefit and much extra weight and muddiness. And when I'm eventually cruising more challenging tidal waters I'll have approximately as much chain as "they" say.
Some point out that boat length per se has little to do with how the anchor, chain, rode, and lake/sea bottom actually interact. And boat length does not necessarily correlate to boat weight and/or windage (think multi-hulls; unballasted camp cruisers; expedition loaded vs. day-sailing; chunky pilot house motor-sailors vs. low-slung minimum-windage designs; etc.).
It's a bit like choosing anchor size, to me. Most manufacturer charts are based on very generic assumptions about boat size and weight correlation. Works well perhaps for medium to huge ballasted monohulls. But what if one's boat doesn't fit those standard assumptions? M17s often don't - they tend to be in one length category, but a different displacement category. We can say "when in doubt go bigger," but what about the possible downsides of trying to manage an oversized, overweight anchor on a small boat?
Just some thoughts to ponder. I'm all for reason-and-testing backed SOP, but not much for Stale Old Protocol.
cheers, John
On 2/21/24 15:48, Dave Scobie wrote:
John.
SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
" On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Yeah those are all good considerations IMO. If I'm going to be anchoring on crusty ground, I'll use more chain, honestly I will Dave! ;-) But also I won't be anchoring there for weeks and months, maybe a day or two, and maybe only with anchor down overnight each day, off cruising around in between. So I'll see what's happening to my rode frequently. Whereas someone with anchor down for days in a row, weeks, months, unless they are diving to inspect it frequently, they understandably want way more security in their ground tackle. There's an interesting article I came across that advocates - for boats large enough to carry & stow it - to use chain for the whole rode. Their reasoning seems quite sound, but it's not a reasonable option for our craft. The extreme I've seen is moorings...a permanent anchor basically. Everything is ideally super heavy duty, maybe some redundancy in places, and should be inspected (by diving on it) "often enough" to spot & repair wear problems before something breaks and a boat is lost. I can throw in this tidbit, which is, if you're anchoring for a while (or putting a mooring down) in estuarine conditions - where fresh and salt water mix regularly - double down on your beefiness, quality, and vigilance on ground tackle metal parts. The constant fresh/salt water mixing is often way more corrosive than straight up sea water. cheers, John On 2/21/24 17:26, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats wrote:
And another thought: For people who lift anchor every day, they can't help but continually inspect their rode but it's onlygoing to be 24 hours worth of wear, but for big time cruisers...heck I could imagine that they don't even see their anchor for weeks or months,so naturally they worry more, because it's potentially more time to wear things down....and they might not even be able to seethe damage done.....So having lot's of chain means less worry. Anyway, I'm just hypothesizing.
On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 05:01:45 PM PST, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi John:
"They' are professional and liveaboard boaters and cruisers (aka myself).
The reason is the greater weight and therefore better bite angle for the anchor and to keep wear on the rope to a minimum (or none). Around the Salish Sea the rocks and barnacles will quickly saw through rope.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 16:44 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Yep, that's what "they" say, whoever "they" are...:-)
There are other perspectives out there - as Groucho famously said, "Those are my principles! If you don't like them...I have others!"
Silliness aside, for my uses to date, it makes zero sense to wrestle with 17 ft of chain to no benefit and much extra weight and muddiness. And when I'm eventually cruising more challenging tidal waters I'll have approximately as much chain as "they" say.
Some point out that boat length per se has little to do with how the anchor, chain, rode, and lake/sea bottom actually interact. And boat length does not necessarily correlate to boat weight and/or windage (think multi-hulls; unballasted camp cruisers; expedition loaded vs. day-sailing; chunky pilot house motor-sailors vs. low-slung minimum-windage designs; etc.).
It's a bit like choosing anchor size, to me. Most manufacturer charts are based on very generic assumptions about boat size and weight correlation. Works well perhaps for medium to huge ballasted monohulls. But what if one's boat doesn't fit those standard assumptions? M17s often don't - they tend to be in one length category, but a different displacement category. We can say "when in doubt go bigger," but what about the possible downsides of trying to manage an oversized, overweight anchor on a small boat?
Just some thoughts to ponder. I'm all for reason-and-testing backed SOP, but not much for Stale Old Protocol.
cheers, John
On 2/21/24 15:48, Dave Scobie wrote:
John.
SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
" On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Thanks Skipper Most M15 M17 are not cruising in unchartered water. Just bring aboard the ground tackle for the condition. Leave the rest in the dock box. Im going to anchor PELICAM M15 at little harbor in Little Harbor Catalina (20 ft depth with sandy bottom. (20 ft chain 150 rope Danforth 20#) one for bow and stern just in case they are using 2 anchors If bad weather is forecast I will get out of there and spent the night at sea sailing back to oceanside instead of the windward side of Catalina (plan B). This from is great and make owing a Mongomery fun. Capt Jim -----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2024 4:44 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Cc: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain Yep, that's what "they" say, whoever "they" are...:-) There are other perspectives out there - as Groucho famously said, "Those are my principles! If you don't like them...I have others!" Silliness aside, for my uses to date, it makes zero sense to wrestle with 17 ft of chain to no benefit and much extra weight and muddiness. And when I'm eventually cruising more challenging tidal waters I'll have approximately as much chain as "they" say. Some point out that boat length per se has little to do with how the anchor, chain, rode, and lake/sea bottom actually interact. And boat length does not necessarily correlate to boat weight and/or windage (think multi-hulls; unballasted camp cruisers; expedition loaded vs. day-sailing; chunky pilot house motor-sailors vs. low-slung minimum-windage designs; etc.). It's a bit like choosing anchor size, to me. Most manufacturer charts are based on very generic assumptions about boat size and weight correlation. Works well perhaps for medium to huge ballasted monohulls. But what if one's boat doesn't fit those standard assumptions? M17s often don't - they tend to be in one length category, but a different displacement category. We can say "when in doubt go bigger," but what about the possible downsides of trying to manage an oversized, overweight anchor on a small boat? Just some thoughts to ponder. I'm all for reason-and-testing backed SOP, but not much for Stale Old Protocol. cheers, John On 2/21/24 15:48, Dave Scobie wrote:
John.
SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
" On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I don't know much. but I'm like John, I just have a few feet of chain right next to the anchor...and often don't even bother with that. I don't like messing with a bunch of chain and for my limited weight carrying capacity of an m15, I'd rather have a bigger anchor than lots of chain. If I lived in an area with a bunch of sharp coral I might think differently. But Dave, you live aboard a much bigger boat, so you may be anchored for long periods of time right? I could see that for piece of mind, you might like lots of chain...cuz..why not? You've got the space and like to sleep without worrying.. Also when the anchor get's over 50lbs, it's probably get's unwieldy and the chain starts to make more sense as a way to increase holding power rather than risk injury dealing with a huge anchor with all it's concentrated weight. Is that a reasonable take on why people might have different ideas about chain? On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 03:49:32 PM PST, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote: John. SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Can anyone help re my Monty 15....my cockpit screen drain is clogged (see pic attached, I moved water but its clogged) that runs out thru swing keel, I believe, how do I unclog, from top or bottom, I've never removed that screen ? Thx all Monty 15 captains!! Robert Melb Bch On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 12:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
That is owner modified setup andnot stock. You need to remove the wooden bit and then the screen and the tube that contains the pennant line. You can get at the cockpit drain, which also directs the pendant line, and drains through the centerboard trunk. Once all of those bits are off I would just use a hose and power all the gunk through the trunk via the cockpit.. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 06:59 Robert Tintera <tinterapalmisle@gmail.com> wrote:
Can anyone help re my Monty 15....my cockpit screen drain is clogged (see pic attached, I moved water but its clogged) that runs out thru swing keel, I believe, how do I unclog, from top or bottom, I've never removed that screen ? Thx all Monty 15 captains!! Robert Melb Bch
On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 12:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
participants (6)
-
Dave Scobie -
Jason Leckie -
Jim Sadler -
John Schinnerer -
Lawrence Winiarski -
Robert Tintera