Towing report - Subaru Outback and M17
Hi all, As promised a while back, a report on towing. In particular for those wondering about what a "small" car can do with an M17. Yesterday I drove from Maple Valley, WA to Ashland, OR, 450 miles, mostly on I-5, towing my recently purchased 1974 M17 "Pajarita" with my 2001 Subaru Outback wagon. Basically, it works just fine. I had to shift down for some of the steeper uphill grades on I-5 in southern Oregon. I cruised at around 60 mph on the freeway, except for a few slower uphills. Nothing I wasn't used to from owning a 71 VW van for many years a while back :-). I can definitely tell there's something wagging my tail a bit, but got used to it eventually. Just needs thoughtful driving, taking a bit more care than without the tow. So now outings to various nearby lakes or Pacific coast won't seem like much of a long tow! ;-) Specs of tow vehicle: base model Outback wagon, 2.5L engine, 165 HP rated, 5 speed manual transmission. Official tow rating is max 2000 lbs. load, max 200 lbs. tongue weight. Has overload rear springs (std. height) from RalliTek: http://www.rallitek.com/lifted-springs-kits/5634-rallitek-rear-overload-spri... Front brakes are high carbon disks and ceramic pads (in plain English, a small upgrade from original equipment). Hitch rig is this one: http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch/Subaru/Outback+Wagon/2001/90176.html?v... ...which I installed myself some time ago, easy-peasy. Along with electrical rig identified on etrailer.com - the car has a plug and play plug, no splicing or manual wiring required. Sometime fairly soon I will try and get the boat & trailer on a scale and see what it actually weighs. Also sometime soon I will be doing the boat ramp shuffle, so will see how it handles that part. cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Lol ... A VW van is about slow in almost all situations. Growing up the family's car was a 1969 van. Loved it and great for loading up all my friends. Folks sold it for more than they paid around 1990. Over 300,000 miles and three engines. :: Dave Scobie On Sep 17, 2015 6:19 PM, "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
As promised a while back, a report on towing. In particular for those wondering about what a "small" car can do with an M17.
Yesterday I drove from Maple Valley, WA to Ashland, OR, 450 miles, mostly on I-5, towing my recently purchased 1974 M17 "Pajarita" with my 2001 Subaru Outback wagon.
Basically, it works just fine. I had to shift down for some of the steeper uphill grades on I-5 in southern Oregon. I cruised at around 60 mph on the freeway, except for a few slower uphills. Nothing I wasn't used to from owning a 71 VW van for many years a while back :-). I can definitely tell there's something wagging my tail a bit, but got used to it eventually. Just needs thoughtful driving, taking a bit more care than without the tow.
So now outings to various nearby lakes or Pacific coast won't seem like much of a long tow! ;-)
Specs of tow vehicle: base model Outback wagon, 2.5L engine, 165 HP rated, 5 speed manual transmission. Official tow rating is max 2000 lbs. load, max 200 lbs. tongue weight.
Has overload rear springs (std. height) from RalliTek:
http://www.rallitek.com/lifted-springs-kits/5634-rallitek-rear-overload-spri...
Front brakes are high carbon disks and ceramic pads (in plain English, a small upgrade from original equipment).
Hitch rig is this one:
http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch/Subaru/Outback+Wagon/2001/90176.html?v...
...which I installed myself some time ago, easy-peasy. Along with electrical rig identified on etrailer.com - the car has a plug and play plug, no splicing or manual wiring required.
Sometime fairly soon I will try and get the boat & trailer on a scale and see what it actually weighs.
Also sometime soon I will be doing the boat ramp shuffle, so will see how it handles that part.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Lolloolol,,,, RIGHT ON DAVE,,,, I had a 68 or 69 VW Camper once.... LOVED IT....wish I had it now (at 73) might hit the road again.. Don't remember which year it was for sure,,, and then that's another story.... Bill Tosh www.tcboat.com Henderson, TX. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2015 7:36 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Towing report - Subaru Outback and M17 Lol ... A VW van is about slow in almost all situations. Growing up the family's car was a 1969 van. Loved it and great for loading up all my friends. Folks sold it for more than they paid around 1990. Over 300,000 miles and three engines. :: Dave Scobie On Sep 17, 2015 6:19 PM, "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
As promised a while back, a report on towing. In particular for those wondering about what a "small" car can do with an M17.
Yesterday I drove from Maple Valley, WA to Ashland, OR, 450 miles, mostly on I-5, towing my recently purchased 1974 M17 "Pajarita" with my 2001 Subaru Outback wagon.
Basically, it works just fine. I had to shift down for some of the steeper uphill grades on I-5 in southern Oregon. I cruised at around 60 mph on the freeway, except for a few slower uphills. Nothing I wasn't used to from owning a 71 VW van for many years a while back :-). I can definitely tell there's something wagging my tail a bit, but got used to it eventually. Just needs thoughtful driving, taking a bit more care than without the tow.
So now outings to various nearby lakes or Pacific coast won't seem like much of a long tow! ;-)
Specs of tow vehicle: base model Outback wagon, 2.5L engine, 165 HP rated, 5 speed manual transmission. Official tow rating is max 2000 lbs. load, max 200 lbs. tongue weight.
Has overload rear springs (std. height) from RalliTek:
http://www.rallitek.com/lifted-springs-kits/5634-rallitek-rear-overloa d-springs-outback-1999-2014.html
Front brakes are high carbon disks and ceramic pads (in plain English, a small upgrade from original equipment).
Hitch rig is this one:
http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch/Subaru/Outback+Wagon/2001/90176. html?vehicleid=2001201023
...which I installed myself some time ago, easy-peasy. Along with electrical rig identified on etrailer.com - the car has a plug and play plug, no splicing or manual wiring required.
Sometime fairly soon I will try and get the boat & trailer on a scale and see what it actually weighs.
Also sometime soon I will be doing the boat ramp shuffle, so will see how it handles that part.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I am interested in your boat/trailer weight and tongue weight. I have a 2015 Subaru Outback 3.6 six cylinder that calls for 3000# total weight and 200# tongue weight. I am guessing my trailer weight approaches 3,000 lbs and the tongue weight over 300#. This is high to the printed standers but I am interested is seeing weights for people that are actually towing with this set up. I think I could just hook this rig up and it would tow ok. I currently tow with my 2089 Ford F-250 with a Lance Camper which is a large rig to tow a 17ft sailboat around and I am sure I could save some gas and time with some other set up. On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 5:19 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
As promised a while back, a report on towing. In particular for those wondering about what a "small" car can do with an M17.
Yesterday I drove from Maple Valley, WA to Ashland, OR, 450 miles, mostly on I-5, towing my recently purchased 1974 M17 "Pajarita" with my 2001 Subaru Outback wagon.
Basically, it works just fine. I had to shift down for some of the steeper uphill grades on I-5 in southern Oregon. I cruised at around 60 mph on the freeway, except for a few slower uphills. Nothing I wasn't used to from owning a 71 VW van for many years a while back :-). I can definitely tell there's something wagging my tail a bit, but got used to it eventually. Just needs thoughtful driving, taking a bit more care than without the tow.
So now outings to various nearby lakes or Pacific coast won't seem like much of a long tow! ;-)
Specs of tow vehicle: base model Outback wagon, 2.5L engine, 165 HP rated, 5 speed manual transmission. Official tow rating is max 2000 lbs. load, max 200 lbs. tongue weight.
Has overload rear springs (std. height) from RalliTek:
http://www.rallitek.com/lifted-springs-kits/5634-rallitek-rear-overload-spri...
Front brakes are high carbon disks and ceramic pads (in plain English, a small upgrade from original equipment).
Hitch rig is this one:
http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch/Subaru/Outback+Wagon/2001/90176.html?v...
...which I installed myself some time ago, easy-peasy. Along with electrical rig identified on etrailer.com - the car has a plug and play plug, no splicing or manual wiring required.
Sometime fairly soon I will try and get the boat & trailer on a scale and see what it actually weighs.
Also sometime soon I will be doing the boat ramp shuffle, so will see how it handles that part.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
As I understand it, the real safety issue is about stopping more than pulling. And extra weight at the tongue lessens the weight of the front wheels where the majority of stopping power is. Consider putting brakes on the trailer. Regards, Mike G. Montgomery 15 ComPac Sun Cat
On Sep 17, 2015, at 7:19 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
As promised a while back, a report on towing. In particular for those wondering about what a "small" car can do with an M17.
Yesterday I drove from Maple Valley, WA to Ashland, OR, 450 miles, mostly on I-5, towing my recently purchased 1974 M17 "Pajarita" with my 2001 Subaru Outback wagon.
Basically, it works just fine. I had to shift down for some of the steeper uphill grades on I-5 in southern Oregon. I cruised at around 60 mph on the freeway, except for a few slower uphills. Nothing I wasn't used to from owning a 71 VW van for many years a while back :-). I can definitely tell there's something wagging my tail a bit, but got used to it eventually. Just needs thoughtful driving, taking a bit more care than without the tow.
So now outings to various nearby lakes or Pacific coast won't seem like much of a long tow! ;-)
Specs of tow vehicle: base model Outback wagon, 2.5L engine, 165 HP rated, 5 speed manual transmission. Official tow rating is max 2000 lbs. load, max 200 lbs. tongue weight.
Has overload rear springs (std. height) from RalliTek: http://www.rallitek.com/lifted-springs-kits/5634-rallitek-rear-overload-spri...
Front brakes are high carbon disks and ceramic pads (in plain English, a small upgrade from original equipment).
Hitch rig is this one: http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch/Subaru/Outback+Wagon/2001/90176.html?v...
...which I installed myself some time ago, easy-peasy. Along with electrical rig identified on etrailer.com - the car has a plug and play plug, no splicing or manual wiring required.
Sometime fairly soon I will try and get the boat & trailer on a scale and see what it actually weighs.
Also sometime soon I will be doing the boat ramp shuffle, so will see how it handles that part.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
That makes sense that the increased tongue weight would give you less stopping power up front. My plan is to get trailer brakes if I decide to retire the 1989 Ford and tow full time with the Subaru. Jim E M-17 #603 Grace On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 5:55 AM, Mike Graf <grafsriverhouse@me.com> wrote:
As I understand it, the real safety issue is about stopping more than pulling. And extra weight at the tongue lessens the weight of the front wheels where the majority of stopping power is.
Consider putting brakes on the trailer.
Regards, Mike G. Montgomery 15 ComPac Sun Cat
On Sep 17, 2015, at 7:19 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
As promised a while back, a report on towing. In particular for those wondering about what a "small" car can do with an M17.
Yesterday I drove from Maple Valley, WA to Ashland, OR, 450 miles, mostly on I-5, towing my recently purchased 1974 M17 "Pajarita" with my 2001 Subaru Outback wagon.
Basically, it works just fine. I had to shift down for some of the steeper uphill grades on I-5 in southern Oregon. I cruised at around 60 mph on the freeway, except for a few slower uphills. Nothing I wasn't used to from owning a 71 VW van for many years a while back :-). I can definitely tell there's something wagging my tail a bit, but got used to it eventually. Just needs thoughtful driving, taking a bit more care than without the tow.
So now outings to various nearby lakes or Pacific coast won't seem like much of a long tow! ;-)
Specs of tow vehicle: base model Outback wagon, 2.5L engine, 165 HP rated, 5 speed manual transmission. Official tow rating is max 2000 lbs. load, max 200 lbs. tongue weight.
Has overload rear springs (std. height) from RalliTek:
http://www.rallitek.com/lifted-springs-kits/5634-rallitek-rear-overload-spri...
Front brakes are high carbon disks and ceramic pads (in plain English, a
small upgrade from original equipment).
Hitch rig is this one:
http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch/Subaru/Outback+Wagon/2001/90176.html?v...
...which I installed myself some time ago, easy-peasy. Along with electrical rig identified on etrailer.com - the car has a
plug and play plug, no splicing or manual wiring required.
Sometime fairly soon I will try and get the boat & trailer on a scale
and see what it actually weighs.
Also sometime soon I will be doing the boat ramp shuffle, so will see
how it handles that part.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I tow my M17 with a 6 cylinder Subaru Outback and have also successfully towed it with a turbo-charged 2004 Subaru Forester. The key is TRAILER BRAKES. ~~~_/)~~~ Gary Sent from my iPhone :-)
On Sep 18, 2015, at 7:36 AM, Jim Ellsworth <jellsworth603@gmail.com> wrote:
That makes sense that the increased tongue weight would give you less stopping power up front. My plan is to get trailer brakes if I decide to retire the 1989 Ford and tow full time with the Subaru.
Jim E M-17 #603 Grace
On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 5:55 AM, Mike Graf <grafsriverhouse@me.com> wrote:
As I understand it, the real safety issue is about stopping more than pulling. And extra weight at the tongue lessens the weight of the front wheels where the majority of stopping power is.
Consider putting brakes on the trailer.
Regards, Mike G. Montgomery 15 ComPac Sun Cat
On Sep 17, 2015, at 7:19 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
As promised a while back, a report on towing. In particular for those wondering about what a "small" car can do with an M17.
Yesterday I drove from Maple Valley, WA to Ashland, OR, 450 miles, mostly on I-5, towing my recently purchased 1974 M17 "Pajarita" with my 2001 Subaru Outback wagon.
Basically, it works just fine. I had to shift down for some of the steeper uphill grades on I-5 in southern Oregon. I cruised at around 60 mph on the freeway, except for a few slower uphills. Nothing I wasn't used to from owning a 71 VW van for many years a while back :-). I can definitely tell there's something wagging my tail a bit, but got used to it eventually. Just needs thoughtful driving, taking a bit more care than without the tow.
So now outings to various nearby lakes or Pacific coast won't seem like much of a long tow! ;-)
Specs of tow vehicle: base model Outback wagon, 2.5L engine, 165 HP rated, 5 speed manual transmission. Official tow rating is max 2000 lbs. load, max 200 lbs. tongue weight.
Has overload rear springs (std. height) from RalliTek: http://www.rallitek.com/lifted-springs-kits/5634-rallitek-rear-overload-spri...
Front brakes are high carbon disks and ceramic pads (in plain English, a small upgrade from original equipment).
Hitch rig is this one: http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch/Subaru/Outback+Wagon/2001/90176.html?v...
...which I installed myself some time ago, easy-peasy. Along with electrical rig identified on etrailer.com - the car has a plug and play plug, no splicing or manual wiring required.
Sometime fairly soon I will try and get the boat & trailer on a scale and see what it actually weighs.
Also sometime soon I will be doing the boat ramp shuffle, so will see how it handles that part.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I will check my tongue weight also, forgot to mention that. Will be easier than getting the whole rig on a scale! Also forgot to mention that of course towing kicked my MPG in the head. Got about 18.5 mpg on the one full tank used along the way. Compared to ~26 without the trailer. Not bad actually considering the load. Yes, definitely more about stopping. Shifting down will get up most any hill. I did not experience any major concern with stopping. My stopping distance was increased, obviously, but still felt adequate. I drive on the cautious side anyhow so I often have more of a safety margin than what seems average. Also that I could downshift for some of the braking effect. Going down interstate grades (6% or less) I didn't need to touch the brakes, coasting speed in fifth gear was the same 55-60 mph I was cruising at. The overload rear springs keep my rear end sag from tongue weight (or any heavy loads in the cargo area) to a minimum and when braking the trailer felt like it was pushing straight, not down. In other words, not pushing the stern of the car down, so it's still my front brakes that do most of the work. Subaru owners note that 2001 and later saw a significant improvement in braking power. 2000 year models had smaller front brakes, which some consider inadequate just for the car if heavily loaded, never mind towing. cheers, John S. On 09/18/2015 05:55 AM, Mike Graf wrote:
As I understand it, the real safety issue is about stopping more than pulling. And extra weight at the tongue lessens the weight of the front wheels where the majority of stopping power is.
Consider putting brakes on the trailer.
Regards, Mike G. Montgomery 15 ComPac Sun Cat
On Sep 17, 2015, at 7:19 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Hi all,
As promised a while back, a report on towing. In particular for those wondering about what a "small" car can do with an M17.
Yesterday I drove from Maple Valley, WA to Ashland, OR, 450 miles, mostly on I-5, towing my recently purchased 1974 M17 "Pajarita" with my 2001 Subaru Outback wagon.
Basically, it works just fine. I had to shift down for some of the steeper uphill grades on I-5 in southern Oregon. I cruised at around 60 mph on the freeway, except for a few slower uphills. Nothing I wasn't used to from owning a 71 VW van for many years a while back :-). I can definitely tell there's something wagging my tail a bit, but got used to it eventually. Just needs thoughtful driving, taking a bit more care than without the tow.
So now outings to various nearby lakes or Pacific coast won't seem like much of a long tow! ;-)
Specs of tow vehicle: base model Outback wagon, 2.5L engine, 165 HP rated, 5 speed manual transmission. Official tow rating is max 2000 lbs. load, max 200 lbs. tongue weight.
Has overload rear springs (std. height) from RalliTek: http://www.rallitek.com/lifted-springs-kits/5634-rallitek-rear-overload-spri...
Front brakes are high carbon disks and ceramic pads (in plain English, a small upgrade from original equipment).
Hitch rig is this one: http://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Hitch/Subaru/Outback+Wagon/2001/90176.html?v...
...which I installed myself some time ago, easy-peasy.
Along with electrical rig identified on etrailer.com - the car has a plug and play plug, no splicing or manual wiring required.
Sometime fairly soon I will try and get the boat & trailer on a scale and see what it actually weighs.
Also sometime soon I will be doing the boat ramp shuffle, so will see how it handles that part.
cheers, John S.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (6)
-
Bill Tosh -
Dave Scobie -
GARY M HYDE -
Jim Ellsworth -
John Schinnerer -
Mike Graf