We've discussed this before, but want opinions again. Scobie? Yesterday I was in 15-20 knot winds. 1 reef point just wasn't enough. So, I'm going to add another. Now, with 2 reef points and a working jib, will I have good balance in an M15? Or, do I need a storm jib too? I don't have one. How does the M15 sail on 2 reefed main alone with a dropped jib? Any chance of going to windward that way? Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
I had 2 reefs and a storm jib with 4 adults on board and it was comfortable blowing hard white caps on Lake Pleasant in AZ one afternoon then when the wind laid down went back with just one reef didn't change the jib could have. One other time blowing 25 with just main only 2 reefs couldn't get it to go to weather and the crew wasn't responsive ( didn't want to get wet and stayed in cabin) and that same day Doug Kelch was out in his cutter rigged 15 by himself with shorten sail but did have a little head sail and was going to weather. Too hot in AZ for sailing my new to me Desert Dawn a Catalina 22. Bill On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
We've discussed this before, but want opinions again. Scobie?
Yesterday I was in 15-20 knot winds. 1 reef point just wasn't enough. So, I'm going to add another. Now, with 2 reef points and a working jib, will I have good balance in an M15? Or, do I need a storm jib too? I don't have one. How does the M15 sail on 2 reefed main alone with a dropped jib? Any chance of going to windward that way?
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
I have read an M15 sails best in higher winds with 2 reefs in the main and a working jib - haven't tested that mtself tho' -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Bill Kaiser Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 7:37 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 reefing and storm jib I had 2 reefs and a storm jib with 4 adults on board and it was comfortable blowing hard white caps on Lake Pleasant in AZ one afternoon then when the wind laid down went back with just one reef didn't change the jib could have. One other time blowing 25 with just main only 2 reefs couldn't get it to go to weather and the crew wasn't responsive ( didn't want to get wet and stayed in cabin) and that same day Doug Kelch was out in his cutter rigged 15 by himself with shorten sail but did have a little head sail and was going to weather. Too hot in AZ for sailing my new to me Desert Dawn a Catalina 22. Bill On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
We've discussed this before, but want opinions again. Scobie?
Yesterday I was in 15-20 knot winds. 1 reef point just wasn't enough. So, I'm going to add another. Now, with 2 reef points and a working jib, will I have good balance in an M15? Or, do I need a storm jib too? I don't have one. How does the M15 sail on 2 reefed main alone with a dropped jib? Any chance of going to windward that way?
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
The only I've been in fierce and furious winds in a 15 was in mexico- it blew in the high 20's and 30's for a week straight. We used one reef in the main and a storm jib most of the time. We got knocked down a few times but in general did very well. I remember passing a Balboa 26 out in the middle of the gulf, upwind! They were really loaded down and had horrible-looking sails. The storm jib doesn't put much pressure on the forestay; the pull of the reefed main did a fine job of keeping things straight. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gus trometer" <atrometer@gmail.com> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 4:44 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 reefing and storm jib
I have read an M15 sails best in higher winds with 2 reefs in the main and a working jib - haven't tested that mtself tho'
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Bill Kaiser Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 7:37 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 reefing and storm jib
I had 2 reefs and a storm jib with 4 adults on board and it was comfortable blowing hard white caps on Lake Pleasant in AZ one afternoon then when the wind laid down went back with just one reef didn't change the jib could have. One other time blowing 25 with just main only 2 reefs couldn't get it to go to weather and the crew wasn't responsive ( didn't want to get wet and stayed in cabin) and that same day Doug Kelch was out in his cutter rigged 15 by himself with shorten sail but did have a little head sail and was going to weather. Too hot in AZ for sailing my new to me Desert Dawn a Catalina 22. Bill
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
We've discussed this before, but want opinions again. Scobie?
Yesterday I was in 15-20 knot winds. 1 reef point just wasn't enough. So, I'm going to add another. Now, with 2 reef points and a working jib, will I have good balance in an M15? Or, do I need a storm jib too? I don't have one. How does the M15 sail on 2 reefed main alone with a dropped jib? Any chance of going to windward that way?
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 6807 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
to add to Bill's comment - the M15, when the wind is up, REALLY sails better with a crew of two. the 'movable ballast' can be a great help and you can really get the 15 to 'haul the mail'. two is really better than one on the M15 when the wind is above 15 knots. if you have the opportunity to see Doug Kelch sail take the time to watch and evaluate what he is doing. he KNOWS his stuff! it is even more fun to watch him on the M15 gaff cutter as the boat does have a lower center of effort so can take a lot of wind and SEAS THE DAY stay 'on her feet'. it is also a sight when Doug tacks ... he is a superman as he tends two jibs and the main sheet all at once. :: Dave Scobie --- On Thu, 7/5/12, Bill Kaiser <whkaiser@gmail.com> wrote:
I had 2 reefs and a storm jib with 4 adults on board and it was comfortable blowing hard white caps on Lake Pleasant in AZ one afternoon then when the wind laid down went back with just one reef didn't change the jib could have. One other time blowing 25 with just main only 2 reefs couldn't get it to go to weather and the crew wasn't responsive ( didn't want to get wet and stayed in cabin) and that same day Doug Kelch was out in his cutter rigged 15 by himself with shorten sail but did have a little head sail and was going to weather. Too hot in AZ for sailing my new to me Desert Dawn a Catalina 22. Bill
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
We've discussed this before, but want opinions again. Scobie?
Yesterday I was in 15-20 knot winds. 1 reef point just wasn't enough. So, I'm going to add another. Now, with 2 reef points and a working jib, will I have good balance in an M15? Or, do I need a storm jib too? I don't have one. How does the M15 sail on 2 reefed main alone with a dropped jib? Any chance of going to windward that way?
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
Yeah, that is how I felt. I was solo sailing, and the M15 is really a cross between a dingy and a keel boat. Amazing how much difference weighting makes in the boat. It would have been nice to have a crew for that reason, plus the company! I have no problem single handing the boat, since the M15 is so easy to sail, but it would have been nice. I would love to watch Doug tack that thing! Daniel On Jul 5, 2012, at 5:00 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
to add to Bill's comment -
the M15, when the wind is up, REALLY sails better with a crew of two. the 'movable ballast' can be a great help and you can really get the 15 to 'haul the mail'. two is really better than one on the M15 when the wind is above 15 knots.
if you have the opportunity to see Doug Kelch sail take the time to watch and evaluate what he is doing. he KNOWS his stuff! it is even more fun to watch him on the M15 gaff cutter as the boat does have a lower center of effort so can take a lot of wind and SEAS THE DAY stay 'on her feet'. it is also a sight when Doug tacks ... he is a superman as he tends two jibs and the main sheet all at once.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Thu, 7/5/12, Bill Kaiser <whkaiser@gmail.com> wrote:
I had 2 reefs and a storm jib with 4 adults on board and it was comfortable blowing hard white caps on Lake Pleasant in AZ one afternoon then when the wind laid down went back with just one reef didn't change the jib could have. One other time blowing 25 with just main only 2 reefs couldn't get it to go to weather and the crew wasn't responsive ( didn't want to get wet and stayed in cabin) and that same day Doug Kelch was out in his cutter rigged 15 by himself with shorten sail but did have a little head sail and was going to weather. Too hot in AZ for sailing my new to me Desert Dawn a Catalina 22. Bill
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
We've discussed this before, but want opinions again. Scobie?
Yesterday I was in 15-20 knot winds. 1 reef point just wasn't enough. So, I'm going to add another. Now, with 2 reef points and a working jib, will I have good balance in an M15? Or, do I need a storm jib too? I don't have one. How does the M15 sail on 2 reefed main alone with a dropped jib? Any chance of going to windward that way?
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
yeah .. the M15 does have some dinghy characteristics. BUT, i will go out in a blow on the 15 ... not in a dinghy. the 15 is much more reassuring (and a dryer ride) than my old Kent Range Minto. :: Dave Scobie --- On Thu, 7/5/12, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah, that is how I felt. I was solo sailing, and the M15 is really a cross between a dingy and a keel boat. Amazing how much difference weighting makes in the boat. It would have been nice to have a crew for that reason, plus the company! I have no problem single handing the boat, since the M15 is so easy to sail, but it would have been nice. I would love to watch Doug tack that thing!
Daniel On Jul 5, 2012, at 5:00 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
to add to Bill's comment -
the M15, when the wind is up, REALLY sails better with a crew of two. the 'movable ballast' can be a great help and you can really get the 15 to 'haul the mail'. two is really better than one on the M15 when the wind is above 15 knots.
if you have the opportunity to see Doug Kelch sail take the time to watch and evaluate what he is doing. he KNOWS his stuff! it is even more fun to watch him on the M15 gaff cutter as the boat does have a lower center of effort so can take a lot of wind and SEAS THE DAY stay 'on her feet'. it is also a sight when Doug tacks ... he is a superman as he tends two jibs and the main sheet all at once.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Thu, 7/5/12, Bill Kaiser <whkaiser@gmail.com> wrote:
I had 2 reefs and a storm jib with 4 adults on board and it was comfortable blowing hard white caps on Lake Pleasant in AZ one
afternoon
then when the wind laid down went back with just one reef didn't change the jib could have. One other time blowing 25 with just main only 2 reefs couldn't get it to go to weather and the crew wasn't responsive ( didn't want to get wet and stayed in cabin) and that same day Doug Kelch was out in his cutter rigged 15 by himself with shorten sail but did have a little head sail and was going to weather. Too hot in AZ for sailing my new to me Desert Dawn a Catalina 22. Bill
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
We've discussed this before, but want opinions again. Scobie?
Yesterday I was in 15-20 knot winds. 1 reef point just wasn't enough. So, I'm going to add another. Now, with 2 reef points and a working jib, will I have good balance in an M15? Or, do I need a storm jib too? I don't have one. How does the M15 sail on 2 reefed main alone with a dropped jib? Any chance of going to windward that way?
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
Oh, ain't that the truth. That is the reason I bought an M15. I sail usually in Tomales Bay, but lots of other places where it blows. I sailed a Vagabond 14 dinghy. Great dinghy. But, just not made for that kind of sailing without a wetsuit! If I wanted that I would get a Laser. No, the M15 is such a great design. Thanks, Jerry! It is really amazing what it packs into a 15 foot space. I feel very secure sailing it. Just terrific. Daniel On Jul 5, 2012, at 5:09 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
yeah .. the M15 does have some dinghy characteristics. BUT, i will go out in a blow on the 15 ... not in a dinghy. the 15 is much more reassuring (and a dryer ride) than my old Kent Range Minto.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Thu, 7/5/12, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Yeah, that is how I felt. I was solo sailing, and the M15 is really a cross between a dingy and a keel boat. Amazing how much difference weighting makes in the boat. It would have been nice to have a crew for that reason, plus the company! I have no problem single handing the boat, since the M15 is so easy to sail, but it would have been nice. I would love to watch Doug tack that thing!
Daniel On Jul 5, 2012, at 5:00 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
to add to Bill's comment -
the M15, when the wind is up, REALLY sails better with a crew of two. the 'movable ballast' can be a great help and you can really get the 15 to 'haul the mail'. two is really better than one on the M15 when the wind is above 15 knots.
if you have the opportunity to see Doug Kelch sail take the time to watch and evaluate what he is doing. he KNOWS his stuff! it is even more fun to watch him on the M15 gaff cutter as the boat does have a lower center of effort so can take a lot of wind and SEAS THE DAY stay 'on her feet'. it is also a sight when Doug tacks ... he is a superman as he tends two jibs and the main sheet all at once.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Thu, 7/5/12, Bill Kaiser <whkaiser@gmail.com> wrote:
I had 2 reefs and a storm jib with 4 adults on board and it was comfortable blowing hard white caps on Lake Pleasant in AZ one
afternoon
then when the wind laid down went back with just one reef didn't change the jib could have. One other time blowing 25 with just main only 2 reefs couldn't get it to go to weather and the crew wasn't responsive ( didn't want to get wet and stayed in cabin) and that same day Doug Kelch was out in his cutter rigged 15 by himself with shorten sail but did have a little head sail and was going to weather. Too hot in AZ for sailing my new to me Desert Dawn a Catalina 22. Bill
On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 4:23 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
We've discussed this before, but want opinions again. Scobie?
Yesterday I was in 15-20 knot winds. 1 reef point just wasn't enough. So, I'm going to add another. Now, with 2 reef points and a working jib, will I have good balance in an M15? Or, do I need a storm jib too? I don't have one. How does the M15 sail on 2 reefed main alone with a dropped jib? Any chance of going to windward that way?
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
Doug can do all that and might be shooting video of it at the same time. There are tapes to prove it. On Jul 5, 2012, at 7:00 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
to add to Bill's comment -
the M15, when the wind is up, REALLY sails better with a crew of two. the 'movable ballast' can be a great help and you can really get the 15 to 'haul the mail'. two is really better than one on the M15 when the wind is above 15 knots.
if you have the opportunity to see Doug Kelch sail take the time to watch and evaluate what he is doing. he KNOWS his stuff! it is even more fun to watch him on the M15 gaff cutter as the boat does have a lower center of effort so can take a lot of wind and SEAS THE DAY stay 'on her feet'. it is also a sight when Doug tacks ... he is a superman as he tends two jibs and the main sheet all at once.
:: Dave Scobie
sailing the M15 i recommend you go to a double reef main about 18(ish) knots. about(ish) 25kts go to a storm jib. all of this has to do with each captain's, crew's and/or admiral's personal comfort level. the M15 doesn't sail well at all under main or jib alone. on my M15 i got caught out in a 20 knot blow going against the tide. 3'+ seas and gusty wind. tried to sail off a lee shore (not really in danger, but wanted to go to a secure harbor that was up wind)). the boat needed a second reef as i was constantly luffing the main through the gusts. i was new to the M15 at the time and tried sailing main alone. i didn't loose ground, but gained none tacking back and forth. i then switched to jib alone ... not as over powered, the M15's jib is small, but still could do no better than 90 degrees off the wind made good. the GPS track told me i could sail all day and not made any forward progress. my solution was to drop sail and motor, very slowly, to weather. i also had an enjoyable 4th of July sail. was on Lake Dillon, CO. winds became gusty (normal for mountain sailing); but mostly in the 15 knot range. had a few periods, lasting for 15 or so minutes each, with wind 20+ with gust above 25 (the rigging was whistling). Lake Dillon doesn't have a long fetch so even when the wind is blowing a gale the seas don't get large. the most i saw was 1.5' ... called 'large seas' by the lake's 'old timers'. i had a blast and it was great fun! one minute video linked below showing the beginning of the holiday sailing day in a 'light breeze' of 10 kts. wind didn't even start to blow until 11AM ... lake was like glass when i arrived at 9AM. you will notice in the video the boat is under powered as i expected the wind to rise. went onto the lake with full main and working jib (standard procedure for sailing on Dillon) - http://youtu.be/85VC7IWYzN8 :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Thu, 7/5/12, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
We've discussed this before, but want opinions again. Scobie?
Yesterday I was in 15-20 knot winds. 1 reef point just wasn't enough. So, I'm going to add another. Now, with 2 reef points and a working jib, will I have good balance in an M15? Or, do I need a storm jib too? I don't have one. How does the M15 sail on 2 reefed main alone with a dropped jib? Any chance of going to windward that way?
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
OK, very useful. I figured as much. The boat has so much weather helm with 1 reef and the working jib, that I can imagine no chance of beating to windward on main alone. Fair enough. I too was luffing the main through the gusts. So, I'll get the other reef point made. I can't imagine being out on purpose in 25 kts in my M15. But, it pays to be prepared. Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com On Jul 5, 2012, at 4:53 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
sailing the M15 i recommend you go to a double reef main about 18(ish) knots. about(ish) 25kts go to a storm jib. all of this has to do with each captain's, crew's and/or admiral's personal comfort level.
the M15 doesn't sail well at all under main or jib alone.
on my M15 i got caught out in a 20 knot blow going against the tide. 3'+ seas and gusty wind. tried to sail off a lee shore (not really in danger, but wanted to go to a secure harbor that was up wind)). the boat needed a second reef as i was constantly luffing the main through the gusts. i was new to the M15 at the time and tried sailing main alone. i didn't loose ground, but gained none tacking back and forth. i then switched to jib alone ... not as over powered, the M15's jib is small, but still could do no better than 90 degrees off the wind made good. the GPS track told me i could sail all day and not made any forward progress. my solution was to drop sail and motor, very slowly, to weather.
i also had an enjoyable 4th of July sail. was on Lake Dillon, CO. winds became gusty (normal for mountain sailing); but mostly in the 15 knot range. had a few periods, lasting for 15 or so minutes each, with wind 20+ with gust above 25 (the rigging was whistling). Lake Dillon doesn't have a long fetch so even when the wind is blowing a gale the seas don't get large. the most i saw was 1.5' ... called 'large seas' by the lake's 'old timers'. i had a blast and it was great fun!
one minute video linked below showing the beginning of the holiday sailing day in a 'light breeze' of 10 kts. wind didn't even start to blow until 11AM ... lake was like glass when i arrived at 9AM. you will notice in the video the boat is under powered as i expected the wind to rise. went onto the lake with full main and working jib (standard procedure for sailing on Dillon) -
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Thu, 7/5/12, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
We've discussed this before, but want opinions again. Scobie?
Yesterday I was in 15-20 knot winds. 1 reef point just wasn't enough. So, I'm going to add another. Now, with 2 reef points and a working jib, will I have good balance in an M15? Or, do I need a storm jib too? I don't have one. How does the M15 sail on 2 reefed main alone with a dropped jib? Any chance of going to windward that way?
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
luffing the main on the M15 is really bad as the mast rotates forward and bags the jib (because there is no backstay). this results in really poor windward ability and you can actually heel more as the jib bags on the now loose forestay. my habit was to luff the main as little as possible and 'pinch' into the wind to de-power the rig. takes some practice, but is very effective. Stan 'paintboy' Susman is REALLY good at doing this ... which he needs to be as he installs those oversized square-topped main sails on his boats. :: Dave Scobie --- On Thu, 7/5/12, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
OK, very useful. I figured as much. The boat has so much weather helm with 1 reef and the working jib, that I can imagine no chance of beating to windward on main alone. Fair enough. I too was luffing the main through the gusts.
So, I'll get the other reef point made. I can't imagine being out on purpose in 25 kts in my M15. But, it pays to be prepared.
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
On Jul 5, 2012, at 4:53 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
sailing the M15 i recommend you go to a double reef main about 18(ish) knots. about(ish) 25kts go to a storm jib. all of this has to do with each captain's, crew's and/or admiral's personal comfort level.
the M15 doesn't sail well at all under main or jib alone.
on my M15 i got caught out in a 20 knot blow going against the tide. 3'+ seas and gusty wind. tried to sail off a lee shore (not really in danger, but wanted to go to a secure harbor that was up wind)). the boat needed a second reef as i was constantly luffing the main through the gusts. i was new to the M15 at the time and tried sailing main alone. i didn't loose ground, but gained none tacking back and forth. i then switched to jib alone ... not as over powered, the M15's jib is small, but still could do no better than 90 degrees off the wind made good. the GPS track told me i could sail all day and not made any forward progress. my solution was to drop sail and motor, very slowly, to weather.
i also had an enjoyable 4th of July sail. was on Lake Dillon, CO. winds became gusty (normal for mountain sailing); but mostly in the 15 knot range. had a few periods, lasting for 15 or so minutes each, with wind 20+ with gust above 25 (the rigging was whistling). Lake Dillon doesn't have a long fetch so even when the wind is blowing a gale the seas don't get large. the most i saw was 1.5' ... called 'large seas' by the lake's 'old timers'. i had a blast and it was great fun!
one minute video linked below showing the beginning of the holiday sailing day in a 'light breeze' of 10 kts. wind didn't even start to blow until 11AM ... lake was like glass when i arrived at 9AM. you will notice in the video the boat is under powered as i expected the wind to rise. went onto the lake with full main and working jib (standard procedure for sailing on Dillon) -
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Thu, 7/5/12, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
We've discussed this before, but want opinions again. Scobie?
Yesterday I was in 15-20 knot winds. 1 reef point
just
wasn't enough. So, I'm going to add another. Now, with 2 reef points and a working jib, will I have good balance in an M15? Or, do I need a storm jib too? I don't have one. How does the M15 sail on 2 reefed main alone with a dropped jib? Any chance of going to windward that way?
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
Yeah, that is exactly what I do, as luffing the main much definitely does exactly what you say. The jib fills more and you heel quite a bit as the boat falls off. Combine that with waves on the broadside, and it makes for some exciting sailing. My lunch kept falling off the seat! Daniel On Jul 5, 2012, at 5:06 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
luffing the main on the M15 is really bad as the mast rotates forward and bags the jib (because there is no backstay). this results in really poor windward ability and you can actually heel more as the jib bags on the now loose forestay.
my habit was to luff the main as little as possible and 'pinch' into the wind to de-power the rig. takes some practice, but is very effective. Stan 'paintboy' Susman is REALLY good at doing this ... which he needs to be as he installs those oversized square-topped main sails on his boats.
:: Dave Scobie
--- On Thu, 7/5/12, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
OK, very useful. I figured as much. The boat has so much weather helm with 1 reef and the working jib, that I can imagine no chance of beating to windward on main alone. Fair enough. I too was luffing the main through the gusts.
So, I'll get the other reef point made. I can't imagine being out on purpose in 25 kts in my M15. But, it pays to be prepared.
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
On Jul 5, 2012, at 4:53 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
sailing the M15 i recommend you go to a double reef main about 18(ish) knots. about(ish) 25kts go to a storm jib. all of this has to do with each captain's, crew's and/or admiral's personal comfort level.
the M15 doesn't sail well at all under main or jib alone.
on my M15 i got caught out in a 20 knot blow going against the tide. 3'+ seas and gusty wind. tried to sail off a lee shore (not really in danger, but wanted to go to a secure harbor that was up wind)). the boat needed a second reef as i was constantly luffing the main through the gusts. i was new to the M15 at the time and tried sailing main alone. i didn't loose ground, but gained none tacking back and forth. i then switched to jib alone ... not as over powered, the M15's jib is small, but still could do no better than 90 degrees off the wind made good. the GPS track told me i could sail all day and not made any forward progress. my solution was to drop sail and motor, very slowly, to weather.
i also had an enjoyable 4th of July sail. was on Lake Dillon, CO. winds became gusty (normal for mountain sailing); but mostly in the 15 knot range. had a few periods, lasting for 15 or so minutes each, with wind 20+ with gust above 25 (the rigging was whistling). Lake Dillon doesn't have a long fetch so even when the wind is blowing a gale the seas don't get large. the most i saw was 1.5' ... called 'large seas' by the lake's 'old timers'. i had a blast and it was great fun!
one minute video linked below showing the beginning of the holiday sailing day in a 'light breeze' of 10 kts. wind didn't even start to blow until 11AM ... lake was like glass when i arrived at 9AM. you will notice in the video the boat is under powered as i expected the wind to rise. went onto the lake with full main and working jib (standard procedure for sailing on Dillon) -
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Thu, 7/5/12, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
We've discussed this before, but want opinions again. Scobie?
Yesterday I was in 15-20 knot winds. 1 reef point
just
wasn't enough. So, I'm going to add another. Now, with 2 reef points and a working jib, will I have good balance in an M15? Or, do I need a storm jib too? I don't have one. How does the M15 sail on 2 reefed main alone with a dropped jib? Any chance of going to windward that way?
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
As I have been reading these e-mails I have found them very helpful! I had my first bout with gusty winds and it definitely spooked me a bit. Has anyone here on the list ever tipped their monty over due to high winds or a gust that caught them off guard? If you have tipped the boat over...what did you do and if you didn't how did you overcome the situation? The only sailing I have ever done has been on a lot bigger boats I am not quite as familiar with the risk of tipping the boat over! -Ted
Hi Ted, I've been reading posts on this site since 1998 and don't remember any stories of an M-15 tipping over or swamping. A few of us have scooped a bit of water into the cockpit. Okay, I scooped enough to fill the cockpit to the top of the bridge deck, but little or none got into the cabin. By the time water is coming over the rail, the sail is horizontal and no longer exerting downward pressure. The most dangerous situation, as Sal mentioned, is when the boat has very little way on; with a little speed, she'll head up and luff on her own. I just noticed your UNM.edu email address. I live in Cochiti Lake. Bill Riker M15 - #184 Storm Petrel -----Original Message----- From: Ted Weidenbach Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 6:43 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 reefing and storm jib As I have been reading these e-mails I have found them very helpful! I had my first bout with gusty winds and it definitely spooked me a bit. Has anyone here on the list ever tipped their monty over due to high winds or a gust that caught them off guard? If you have tipped the boat over...what did you do and if you didn't how did you overcome the situation? The only sailing I have ever done has been on a lot bigger boats I am not quite as familiar with the risk of tipping the boat over! -Ted
some years ago i remember an email exchange that an M15 owner purchased his boat for a 'steal of a price' because it had been swamped. the new owner was looking for recommendations on how to renovate/repair the boat (see below). the story, if memory serves, is the M15 was being used by the seller's kid(s) and kid's friends. the boat had be taken out with many persons on board and had been somewhat intentionally knocked down and swamped. the boat didn't sink, or turtle, but was filled with dirty lake water and a complete mess (ie, the flotation foam stank, the cabin cushions were ruined, and the interior was coated in fine mud). the seller sold the boat not because of any failures in the safety/ability of the M15 ... he was just so pissed at his kid(s). anyhow, this is what i remember ... don't know how muddled my memory is on the story. :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Fri, 7/6/12, William B Riker <wriker@mindspring.com> wrote:
Hi Ted,
I've been reading posts on this site since 1998 and don't remember any stories of an M-15 tipping over or swamping. A few of us have scooped a bit of water into the cockpit. Okay, I scooped enough to fill the cockpit to the top of the bridge deck, but little or none got into the cabin. By the time water is coming over the rail, the sail is horizontal and no longer exerting downward pressure. The most dangerous situation, as Sal mentioned, is when the boat has very little way on; with a little speed, she'll head up and luff on her own.
I just noticed your UNM.edu email address. I live in Cochiti Lake.
Bill Riker M15 - #184 Storm Petrel
-----Original Message----- From: Ted Weidenbach Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 6:43 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 reefing and storm jib
As I have been reading these e-mails I have found them very helpful! I had my first bout with gusty winds and it definitely spooked me a bit. Has anyone here on the list ever tipped their monty over due to high winds or a gust that caught them off guard? If you have tipped the boat over...what did you do and if you didn't how did you overcome the situation?
The only sailing I have ever done has been on a lot bigger boats I am not quite as familiar with the risk of tipping the boat over!
-Ted
participants (8)
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Bill Kaiser -
Daniel Rich -
Gus trometer -
Howard Audsley -
jerry montgomery -
Ted Weidenbach -
W David Scobie -
William B Riker