Re: M_Boats: M17 whisker pole and headsail tack.
Gerry. Tack is supposed to be at the bow, not 'up in the air'. This is why the whisker pole angle isn't correct. Off the top of my head the spinnaker eye is about 20" from the bottom of the mast. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com On Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 1:31 PM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
So today we lowered the mast to put in halyards, then raised it again and tried putting the sails on/up. So far so good. I raised the jib enough so the foot cleared the pulpit, then checked the fit of the whisker pole. If it's supposed to work with this sail and if it should be close to horizontal, that pad eye on the mast should move up to about 40" from the base. Right now it's 22" up from base. Everything else looks good to me; we took a lot of measurements so we know where the boom sits and where to open up the slot for inserting the gooseneck. Next step, order the mast and get the boat off the trailer to remove the centerboard.
Also, when it comes time to actually sail, the jib/genoa sheet lead blocks should be much further aft. You will see about 20 more closely spaced holes in the toerail. That is the normal range of adjustment. With the jib, the blocks should be around 1/3 of the way back within that range. You can fine tune sail twist by moving the blocks forward or back from there. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 4:36 PM To: Gerry Lempicki <ka1stz@yahoo.com>; For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 whisker pole and headsail tack. Gerry. Tack is supposed to be at the bow, not 'up in the air'. This is why the whisker pole angle isn't correct. Off the top of my head the spinnaker eye is about 20" from the bottom of the mast. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com On Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 1:31 PM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
So today we lowered the mast to put in halyards, then raised it again and tried putting the sails on/up. So far so good. I raised the jib enough so the foot cleared the pulpit, then checked the fit of the whisker pole. If it's supposed to work with this sail and if it should be close to horizontal, that pad eye on the mast should move up to about 40" from the base. Right now it's 22" up from base. Everything else looks good to me; we took a lot of measurements so we know where the boom sits and where to open up the slot for inserting the gooseneck. Next step, order the mast and get the boat off the trailer to remove the centerboard.
Jib block location... In theory you want the blocks placed so that the luff (noun) of the jib (front edge, if you're not all caught up on terminology yet ;-) luffs (verb - softens and starts to flutter, because you're heading too much into the wind to catch the wind in the sail any more) evenly from top to bottom. So you can go out and sail on a light to moderate day and put the blocks somewhere, get on a close reach (sailing about as much into the wind as the boat will manage), and then turn a bit more into the wind ("head up") and watch the luff of the jib - does it start to soften and flutter evenly? Or does the top luff first, or the bottom? If the top luffs first, move your blocks forward a bit. Your sheet is pulling more aft than down so there's less tension on the upper part of the jib. If the bottom luffs first, move your blocks aft a bit, reverse explanation of above. And yeah, normally the tack of your jib is right down by the deck, shackle goes onto something at the bow fitting (varies by vintage, if yours is OEM '74 like mine there is an aluminum casting at the bow, with multiple holes fore to aft, the forward-most is for your forestay and then one or two behind that is for attaching the tack of your jib). If what Connie said about visibility matters for you, you can put a spacer in there and fly your jib higher above the bow. But it will heel your boat more, all else equal, because the force is applied higher. May affect sailing trim and/ or helm in other ways, I'll leave it to the racers and other more technically knowledgeable to speak to that. cheers, John On 03/20/2019 02:12 PM, swwheatley@comcast.net wrote:
Also, when it comes time to actually sail, the jib/genoa sheet lead blocks should be much further aft. You will see about 20 more closely spaced holes in the toerail. That is the normal range of adjustment. With the jib, the blocks should be around 1/3 of the way back within that range. You can fine tune sail twist by moving the blocks forward or back from there.
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 4:36 PM To: Gerry Lempicki <ka1stz@yahoo.com>; For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 whisker pole and headsail tack.
Gerry.
Tack is supposed to be at the bow, not 'up in the air'. This is why the whisker pole angle isn't correct.
Off the top of my head the spinnaker eye is about 20" from the bottom of the mast.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 1:31 PM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
So today we lowered the mast to put in halyards, then raised it again and tried putting the sails on/up. So far so good. I raised the jib enough so the foot cleared the pulpit, then checked the fit of the whisker pole. If it's supposed to work with this sail and if it should be close to horizontal, that pad eye on the mast should move up to about 40" from the base. Right now it's 22" up from base. Everything else looks good to me; we took a lot of measurements so we know where the boom sits and where to open up the slot for inserting the gooseneck. Next step, order the mast and get the boat off the trailer to remove the centerboard.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
OK, so you mean you keep the foot down low on the deck? I ASSuMEd it had to clear the pulpit. So the tack gets shackled right down low behind the forestay connection? I guess then we don't worry about sail wear against the pulpit. I actually had it that way first, and said that can't be right. LOL. I should have grabbed any of the books I bought to look at the pictures; I see now they have jibs out rubbing against the rails, and low down. OK, so I guess the pad eye is located OK! Thanks! On Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 4:36:16 PM EDT, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote: Gerry. Tack is supposed to be at the bow, not 'up in the air'. This is why the whisker pole angle isn't correct. Off the top of my head the spinnaker eye is about 20" from the bottom of the mast. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com On Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 1:31 PM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: So today we lowered the mast to put in halyards, then raised it again and tried putting the sails on/up. So far so good. I raised the jib enough so the foot cleared the pulpit, then checked the fit of the whisker pole. If it's supposed to work with this sail and if it should be close to horizontal, that pad eye on the mast should move up to about 40" from the base. Right now it's 22" up from base. Everything else looks good to me; we took a lot of measurements so we know where the boom sits and where to open up the slot for inserting the gooseneck. Next step, order the mast and get the boat off the trailer to remove the centerboard.
Gerry, From your photo your mast looks straight to me. Why do you want to buy a new one? What's the problem? Does it have some corrosion at the base? Cut off 1/2", and do a bit if shroud adjustment Oxidation? Looks old? Elbow grease and an abrasive pad takes care of that. If you still don't like it, you can always paint it and the boom white, and it will be elegant again. As for the tack of the jib: On my M15 I had the tack about a foot up from the bow fitting. When I'm sailing I want visibility forward so I can see the traffic. A jib with the tack down on the deck kills all visibility. That's why the racing people add a big transparent window to their deck-sweeping head sails. Connie On 3/20/2019 4:22 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote:
OK, so you mean you keep the foot down low on the deck? I ASSuMEd it had to clear the pulpit. So the tack gets shackled right down low behind the forestay connection? I guess then we don't worry about sail wear against the pulpit. I actually had it that way first, and said that can't be right. LOL. I should have grabbed any of the books I bought to look at the pictures; I see now they have jibs out rubbing against the rails, and low down. OK, so I guess the pad eye is located OK! Thanks! On Wednesday, March 20, 2019, 4:36:16 PM EDT, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Gerry. Tack is supposed to be at the bow, not 'up in the air'. This is why the whisker pole angle isn't correct. Off the top of my head the spinnaker eye is about 20" from the bottom of the mast.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com
On Wed, Mar 20, 2019, 1:31 PM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
So today we lowered the mast to put in halyards, then raised it again and tried putting the sails on/up. So far so good. I raised the jib enough so the foot cleared the pulpit, then checked the fit of the whisker pole. If it's supposed to work with this sail and if it should be close to horizontal, that pad eye on the mast should move up to about 40" from the base. Right now it's 22" up from base. Everything else looks good to me; we took a lot of measurements so we know where the boom sits and where to open up the slot for inserting the gooseneck. Next step, order the mast and get the boat off the trailer to remove the centerboard.
participants (5)
-
Conbert Benneck -
Dave Scobie -
Gerry Lempicki -
John Schinnerer -
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