Dave, I am also looking at RF for my M17. I am looking hard at the Snapfurl because of its purported ease of changing sails. I have a pretty complete inventory of newish hank on sails (110, 135, 150, all tanbark, 2 drifters, and a storm jib.) I would probably convert the 110 and 150 luffs for RF, and eventually get a purpose made sail with a foam luff after a season or two. I would, at least initially, use a sock for UV protection. Does this sail selection make sense? My drifter does not hank to the forestay and can be set free-flying. I was originally thinking of adding a removable Solent stay for the storm jib but am now wondering if it would work to convert the luff and raise it in the Snapfurl instead? It would only be used in heavy weather and not roller reefed. Or would it be sufficient to reef the 110 down to storm jib size? Henry Monita On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 5:06 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:

Kevin:

Get a 150%. This jib the size the M17 is design to use. A 135 under powers the boat!

If you don't want to do foredeck get a Schaefer Snapfurl, a much better system than CDI.

To improve reefed sail shape on furler get a foam luff.

Talk with Harry at E/P Sailmakers. Hw know the Mboats. He is making me a new set for SWALLOW as I type this.

:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com

On Sat, Jan 12, 2019, 2:31 PM Kevin Sandwick <ksandwick@hotmail.com wrote:

...

________________________________ From: Kevin Sandwick

Time to open a can of worms. On the fence over two new head sails or roller furling for my M-17. Not a kid anymore and I sail 95 % single handed. 1985 model. Currently 105 % headsail with single reef in main. Thinking of adding a 80% and a 135% or a 135 on CDI furller. Asymmetrical spinnaker is on the list for down the road a bit. Is the CDI the go to furller? Appreciate any feedback, This is a tough decision for me. I tried to access searchable archives with no luck. Thanks Kevin Hull #400

-- Sent from Gmail Mobile on Windows 10 phone

Henry: A hank-on sail cut to work with a furler isn't going to set well - ESPECIALLY when reefed!!! I recommend saving up so you can buy the Snapful and sail together. Get a foam luff to make the reefed sail better shaped. IMO, unless you are sailing in winds above 15-20kts almost all the time, get a 150% genoa. Going to a smaller genoa only makes sense if you find a sail above 120/130% is to large most of the time. I know some that have smaller sails for the Snapful - they change the headsail before leaving the dock. IMO changing a furler headsail is much more difficult than changing a hank-on headsail because the halyard is aft and if the luff jams when going up you need to go forward and then aft again to continue raising the sail (for example). Others can comment on their furler headsail changes on a M/S17 as my _underway_ changes have been done only with hankon types ... in winds 15-20+ knots. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com> FOR SALE! :: SV SWALLOW - https://sv-swallow.com :: Montgomery 6'8" #650 :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 10:05 AM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:

Dave, I am also looking at RF for my M17. I am looking hard at the Snapfurl because of its purported ease of changing sails. I have a pretty complete inventory of newish hank on sails (110, 135, 150, all tanbark, 2 drifters, and a storm jib.) I would probably convert the 110 and 150 luffs for RF, and eventually get a purpose made sail with a foam luff after a season or two. I would, at least initially, use a sock for UV protection. Does this sail selection make sense? My drifter does not hank to the forestay and can be set free-flying. I was originally thinking of adding a removable Solent stay for the storm jib but am now wondering if it would work to convert the luff and raise it in the Snapfurl instead? It would only be used in heavy weather and not roller reefed. Or would it be sufficient to reef the 110 down to storm jib size?

Henry Monita

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On 01/17/2019 04:35 PM, Henry Rodriguez wrote: ...

I'm thinking of only changing sails at the dock, according to conditions of the day. I am probably overthinking this but I look at it as a coarse-tune/fine tune situation, with inital sail selection being the "coarse" tune and roller reefing the "fine" tune. Dumb view?

If you're willing to fuss with it...worth trying and see if it works for you.

Another thought: I could put a swivel block at the mast base so the halyard could be brought forward for the initial hoist, then back to the mast or cockpit for tensioning.

FWIW the CDI furler has its own internal halyard so you could change sails on the furler more easily (and the jib halyard is available for other headsails if/as relevant). Still not going to be as easy as a hank-on since you have to feed the whole luff into the slot on the furler (as with any furler using a foil) instead of just clipping on the hanks. And even on the CDI, to bring the halyard all the way down you normally need to attach/detach a messenger line (or somehow have a way to keep excess halyard from fouling when furling and unfurling).

And is the Snapfurl extrusion strong enough to support the storm sail? It would not be reefed so should set ok. Or is a Solent stay a better option?

I had to look up Solent stay...from what I read, it would be in the way of tacking to windward? Hard to get the regular jib across, or have to furl to tack. Sounds like it's mostly beneficial for long downwind runs (like two weeks downwind :-), with a jib out on each side. So not sure how suited it would be to your lake sailing? cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

The extrusion is over the forestay, right? So it's as strong as the forestay, or so I'd assume. But if I understand right, you'd need the removable solent stay because you'd already have the furled regular jib on the furler, and couldn't attach the storm jib to it...yes? That's what I see they did with the Spindrift project anyhow. Good ideas there. Only penalty would appear to be windage from the furled regular jib. Might reduce pointing ability a little bit. But way more convenient than other options. cheers, John On 01/17/2019 09:06 PM, Henry Rodriguez wrote:

Thanks. I understand that changing jibs on a furler is not as simple as with hank on. I have been lead to believe that the process is easier with the Snapfurl than with the CDI. (I don't have any experience with either; that's why I'm asking questions.) I would probably only change sails at the dock. I already have two jib halyards.

The Solent stay would be a removable Dyneema line that would be stowed at the mast when not needed for the storm jib. It would be quickly deployed when needed and attached to a secondary bow fitting (U-bolt?) 6-10" aft of the furled jib with a Forespar quick release forestay lever and a Ball-Loc pin. There are pictures of a Solent stay configuration on the MSOGphotosite under Technical Projects, Spindrift. The owners went this route to be able to fly a dedicated storm jib behind their CDI furler when conditions warranted. I could do a similar installation for next to nothing using parts I already have.

Which brings me back to the question: Is the Snapfurl extrusion stout enough to support a storm sail or is a removable Solent stay a better option? I don't like the idea of rolling a big jib down to storm jib size.

Henry

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 9:02 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

...

On 01/17/2019 04:35 PM, Henry Rodriguez wrote: ...

...

I'm thinking of only changing sails at the dock, according to conditions of the day. I am probably overthinking this but I look at it as a coarse-tune/fine tune situation, with inital sail selection being the "coarse" tune and roller reefing the "fine" tune. Dumb view?

If you're willing to fuss with it...worth trying and see if it works for you.

...

Another thought: I could put a swivel block at the mast base so the halyard could be brought forward for the initial hoist, then back to the mast or cockpit for tensioning.

FWIW the CDI furler has its own internal halyard so you could change sails on the furler more easily (and the jib halyard is available for other headsails if/as relevant). Still not going to be as easy as a hank-on since you have to feed the whole luff into the slot on the furler (as with any furler using a foil) instead of just clipping on the hanks. And even on the CDI, to bring the halyard all the way down you normally need to attach/detach a messenger line (or somehow have a way to keep excess halyard from fouling when furling and unfurling).

...

And is the Snapfurl extrusion strong enough to support the storm sail? It would not be reefed so should set ok. Or is a Solent stay a better option?

I had to look up Solent stay...from what I read, it would be in the way of tacking to windward? Hard to get the regular jib across, or have to furl to tack. Sounds like it's mostly beneficial for long downwind runs (like two weeks downwind :-), with a jib out on each side.

So not sure how suited it would be to your lake sailing?

cheers, John

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

Henry. The Snapfurl is more than strong enough for a heavy weather jib. The weak link is the forestay swage fitting that is already on the boat. Be sure to install a toggle at the upper end of the forestay (so there is one at both ends). I repaired a M17 that this wasn't done ... owner lucky he didn't loose the mast. Loading the jib on a Snapfurl is much easier than the CDI. You can never correctly tension the luff on a CDI. Many headsails is just a matter of money! ;-) :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com On Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 8:10 AM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com wrote:

Exactly! It would be simpler, though, if the rolled up jib was removed and replaced with the storm jib. I'm trying to determine if it is practical to do so. Not easy with the CDI, not sure about the Snapfurl. If doable I would add a luff tape to my storm jib. If not I will use a Solent stay.

Dave, you seem to have experience with the Snapfurl. What do you think?

Henry

On Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 12:09 AM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net wrote:

...

The extrusion is over the forestay, right? So it's as strong as the forestay, or so I'd assume.

But if I understand right, you'd need the removable solent stay because you'd already have the furled regular jib on the furler, and couldn't attach the storm jib to it...yes?

That's what I see they did with the Spindrift project anyhow. Good ideas there. Only penalty would appear to be windage from the furled regular jib. Might reduce pointing ability a little bit. But way more convenient than other options.

cheers, John

On 01/17/2019 09:06 PM, Henry Rodriguez wrote:

...

Thanks. I understand that changing jibs on a furler is not as simple as with hank on. I have been lead to believe that the process is easier with the Snapfurl than with the CDI. (I don't have any experience with either; that's why I'm asking questions.) I would probably only change sails at the dock. I already have two jib halyards.

The Solent stay would be a removable Dyneema line that would be stowed at the mast when not needed for the storm jib. It would be quickly deployed when needed and attached to a secondary bow fitting (U-bolt?) 6-10" aft of the furled jib with a Forespar quick release forestay lever and a Ball-Loc pin. There are pictures of a Solent stay configuration on the MSOGphotosite under Technical Projects, Spindrift. The owners went this route to be able to fly a dedicated storm jib behind their CDI furler when conditions warranted. I could do a similar installation for next to nothing using parts I already have.

Which brings me back to the question: Is the Snapfurl extrusion stout enough to support a storm sail or is a removable Solent stay a better option? I don't like the idea of rolling a big jib down to storm jib size.

Henry

On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 9:02 PM John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

...

On 01/17/2019 04:35 PM, Henry Rodriguez wrote: ...

...

I'm thinking of only changing sails at the dock, according to conditions of the day. I am probably overthinking this but I look at it as a coarse-tune/fine tune situation, with inital sail selection being the "coarse" tune and roller reefing the "fine" tune. Dumb view?

If you're willing to fuss with it...worth trying and see if it works for you.

...

Another thought: I could put a swivel block at the mast base so the halyard could be brought forward for the initial hoist, then back to the mast or cockpit for tensioning.

FWIW the CDI furler has its own internal halyard so you could change sails on the furler more easily (and the jib halyard is available for other headsails if/as relevant). Still not going to be as easy as a hank-on since you have to feed the whole luff into the slot on the furler (as with any furler using a foil) instead of just clipping on the hanks. And even on the CDI, to bring the halyard all the way down you normally need to attach/detach a messenger line (or somehow have a way to keep excess halyard from fouling when furling and unfurling).

...

And is the Snapfurl extrusion strong enough to support the storm sail? It would not be reefed so should set ok. Or is a Solent stay a better option?

I had to look up Solent stay...from what I read, it would be in the way of tacking to windward? Hard to get the regular jib across, or have to furl to tack. Sounds like it's mostly beneficial for long downwind runs (like two weeks downwind :-), with a jib out on each side.

So not sure how suited it would be to your lake sailing?

cheers, John

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

Henry: 'storm' is really small. for the Mboats & Sages it is better in a blow, meaning 25 knots or so, to use a heavy weather jib at about 85%. a storm jib is much smaller. a 110% rolled to about 85% is still a well shaped sail (foam luff and well designed by the loft). the issue in making a small sail is moving the center of effort forward and having lee helm. this is where a solent stay sail can assist. converting sails really doesn't work as the cut for a roller furled sail is different than a hang-on ... also adding a foam luff ... and also luff, assuming the current sail is full hoist, will be many inches to long in the furler's extrusion length (meaning you either cut off the sail's head or foot and change the shape (for the worse). the toggle will add length to the forestay. for example using a 1/4" Eye Jaw Toggle, https://www.fisheriessupply.com/alexander-roberts-chrome-eye-x-jaw-fixed-tog... , will add ~1 1/16". This can be taken up by the turnbuckle if it isn't already turned down more than about 1/3 to 1/2 its available length. adding a little rake to the mast likely wouldn't hurt if you can take up the tension with the backstay turnbuckle. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com> FOR SALE! :: SV SWALLOW - https://sv-swallow.com :: Montgomery 6'8" #650 :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 9:55 PM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks! That’s what I wanted to know. There is no need, then, for a Solent stay arrangement if the Genoa can be swapped out for a smaller sail fairly easily. Can the 110 be furled down to storm jib size or would it be better to convert the luff of my existing storm jib? I would try doing the 110 and storm jib conversions myself with a Sailrite kit and possibly the 150 while I save for a “real” RF 150.

Also, does adding a toggle require shortening the forestay to keep the same overall length?

Henry

On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 9:17 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Henry.

The Snapfurl is more than strong enough for a heavy weather jib. The weak link is the forestay swage fitting that is already on the boat.

Be sure to install a toggle at the upper end of the forestay (so there is one at both ends). I repaired a M17 that this wasn't done ... owner lucky he didn't loose the mast.

Loading the jib on a Snapfurl is much easier than the CDI. You can never correctly tension the luff on a CDI.

Many headsails is just a matter of money! ;-)

:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com

On Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 8:10 AM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com wrote:

...

Exactly! It would be simpler, though, if the rolled up jib was removed and replaced with the storm jib. I'm trying to determine if it is practical to do so. Not easy with the CDI, not sure about the Snapfurl. If doable I would add a luff tape to my storm jib. If not I will use a Solent stay.

Dave, you seem to have experience with the Snapfurl. What do you think?

Henry

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Hi all: Planning my cruise in the San Juans and Canada for August. Wondering about launching at Port Angeles and crossing over to Victoria in my M15. Been on several cruises in the SJs but never on this larger open water. Any warnings, advice, suggestions. Thanks all, Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky) outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors "Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.

On Jan 26, 2019, at 11:46 AM, Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:

Interesting. I have only had occasion to use my storm jib once on the M17. Winds were 25-30 mph with gusts up to 40. I was very glad I had it. The sail is the recommended size for a Catalina 22: 12’ x 6’ x 9’ Making it 26sq ft, 65% of LP but only 35% of the foretriangle.

It turns out that the working staysail on my VN23 has almost exactly the same dimensions as the 110 on my M17. I could have saved some money there since I can only sail one boat at a time. But I also have a heavy weather staysail for Chiquita that is 14’ x 6’ x 11.5’ , 35 sq ft and 76% of LP but only 48% of the actual foretriangle of the M17. I will have to try that on Monita in heavy weather before I commit to anything additional.

If I go the roller furling route it might be best to sell Monita’s 110, 135, and 150 in order to buy a purpose made RF 150. I could put a luff tape on either the storm jib or on Chiquita’s heavy weather staysail and change sails when conditions warrant. I would not roller reef the heavy weather sail, it would only be flown full size, such as it is.

Henry

On Fri, Jan 25, 2019 at 3:27 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Henry:

'storm' is really small. for the Mboats & Sages it is better in a blow, meaning 25 knots or so, to use a heavy weather jib at about 85%. a storm jib is much smaller. a 110% rolled to about 85% is still a well shaped sail (foam luff and well designed by the loft).

the issue in making a small sail is moving the center of effort forward and having lee helm. this is where a solent stay sail can assist.

converting sails really doesn't work as the cut for a roller furled sail is different than a hang-on ... also adding a foam luff ... and also luff, assuming the current sail is full hoist, will be many inches to long in the furler's extrusion length (meaning you either cut off the sail's head or foot and change the shape (for the worse).

the toggle will add length to the forestay. for example using a 1/4" Eye Jaw Toggle,

https://www.fisheriessupply.com/alexander-roberts-chrome-eye-x-jaw-fixed-tog... , will add ~1 1/16". This can be taken up by the turnbuckle if it isn't already turned down more than about 1/3 to 1/2 its available length. adding a little rake to the mast likely wouldn't hurt if you can take up the tension with the backstay turnbuckle.

:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com> FOR SALE! :: SV SWALLOW - https://sv-swallow.com :: Montgomery 6'8" #650 :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred

On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 9:55 PM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Thanks! That’s what I wanted to know. There is no need, then, for a Solent stay arrangement if the Genoa can be swapped out for a smaller sail fairly easily. Can the 110 be furled down to storm jib size or would it be better to convert the luff of my existing storm jib? I would try doing the 110 and storm jib conversions myself with a Sailrite kit and possibly the 150 while I save for a “real” RF 150.

Also, does adding a toggle require shortening the forestay to keep the same overall length?

Henry

On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 9:17 PM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Henry.

The Snapfurl is more than strong enough for a heavy weather jib. The weak link is the forestay swage fitting that is already on the boat.

Be sure to install a toggle at the upper end of the forestay (so there is one at both ends). I repaired a M17 that this wasn't done ... owner lucky he didn't loose the mast.

Loading the jib on a Snapfurl is much easier than the CDI. You can never correctly tension the luff on a CDI.

Many headsails is just a matter of money! ;-)

:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com

On Fri, Jan 18, 2019, 8:10 AM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com wrote:

...

Exactly! It would be simpler, though, if the rolled up jib was removed and replaced with the storm jib. I'm trying to determine if it is practical to do so. Not easy with the CDI, not sure about the Snapfurl. If doable I would add a luff tape to my storm jib. If not I will use a Solent stay.

Dave, you seem to have experience with the Snapfurl. What do you think?

Henry

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Wow Dave: Incredible info. Thanks. I will be going with a group of sailboats from the Southern Idaho Sailing Association as we have done for the past two years in August when we launched from Anacortes and looped the SJ islands. This year folks want to hit more Canadian harbors and it sounds like fun. However, as cautious as I am, I’m leery of the crossing from Port Angeles and Victoria. Looks like about 22 miles or so. Even though I’ve crossed over from Sucia to Pember without any problems, I think this crossing might be out of my ability level. I know I don’t give the M15 it’s do, but I seem to always doubt myself. Thanks again, appreciate it. Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky) outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors "Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.

On Jan 27, 2019, at 8:36 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:

Peter:

The things to know about crossing the Juan de Fuca Straits -

#1 understand the wind pattern - late spring, summer and early fall lightest winds are morning to early afternoon. wind builds from the west and likely a SCA to gale in the mid-afternoon through nightfall. In general if it is blowing in the morning don't go. some of the worse winds are in the Race Rocks area. In a westerly once north of this area headed the final way to the Victoria Harbour entrance you starting getting into the lee of Vancouver Island. winds are usually lighter east of the 'constriction' between Race Rocks and the WA coast.

review forecasts the days prior to see how the weather is cycling and the difference between what was predicted and actually happened.

Weather forecasts from NOAA are in three zones for the Strait: west, central and east. the US reports to read/listen are central and east -

central - https://marine.weather.gov/MapClick.php?zoneid=PZZ131#.XE3J5VVKiUk <https://marine.weather.gov/MapClick.php?zoneid=PZZ131#.XE3J5VVKiUk> east - https://marine.weather.gov/MapClick.php?zoneid=pzz132#.XE3JfFVKiUk <https://marine.weather.gov/MapClick.php?zoneid=pzz132#.XE3JfFVKiUk>

the Canadian forecasts use slightly different zone names. East in CN forecasts are the waters north of the NOAA central area -

https://weather.gc.ca/marine/forecast_e.html?mapID=02&siteID=07003 <https://weather.gc.ca/marine/forecast_e.html?mapID=02&siteID=07003>

the Haro Strait CN forecast helps understand what is happening on the NW 'side' of NOAAs East Strait forecast -

https://weather.gc.ca/marine/forecast_e.html?mapID=02&siteID=06100 <https://weather.gc.ca/marine/forecast_e.html?mapID=02&siteID=06100>

further reading that assists one understand the wind's behaviors along the entire Salish Sea -

'Taken By the Wind: The Northwest Coast: A Guide to Sailing the Coasts of British Columbia and Southeast Alaska' by Marilyn Johnson ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1532895666/ <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1532895666/> )

#2 fog: calm winds and warm air means fog. usually this comes up overnight or just as the sun rises. if there is no wind it may never clear. Spring and Fall are the worse fog 'seasons'.

#3 wind against current: if there is a strong west wind against the ebb tide the Strait can get UGLY. same can be said for a flood tide against the rare late spring, summer and early fall easterly blow. FYI - August is commonly called FOGust.

#4 BIG SHIPS GOING FAST. keep an eye out for these ;-) you can listen to VHF channel 5A as large ships will report. you can also let Vessel Traffic know you are in the area if fog and/or heavy winds.

The crossing is doable and has been done, many times, by M15s. During the first run of the Race to Alaska (R2AK 2015) a M15 took part in Sage 1 (Port Townsend to Victoria). The day started winds 20-25kts and seas 2-5'. The dayswas different in the winds moderated - not at all normal. The team crossed with no issues ... and when they arrived i checked their rig: it was way to loose. as it wasn't lost shows you how Jerry overdesinged the rig!

:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com/> FOR SALE! :: SV SWALLOW - https://sv-swallow.com <https://sv-swallow.com/> :: Montgomery 6'8" #650 :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ <https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/> :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ <https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/> :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred <http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred>

On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 12:57 PM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote: Hi all: Planning my cruise in the San Juans and Canada for August. Wondering about launching at Port Angeles and crossing over to Victoria in my M15. Been on several cruises in the SJs but never on this larger open water. Any warnings, advice, suggestions. Thanks all,

Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)

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That’s a pretty awesome book, I read it last month. My next goal is to do the self steering set up that is in the book. Randy M-17 No Worries Sent from Mail for Windows 10 From: Steve Trapp Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 12:52 PM To: Peter Zimowsky; For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Post Angeles-Victoria crossing Peter, Read the book, A Little Breeze to the West, about an M-15 sailing from San Diego to Hawaii. Steve M-15 # 335 -----Original Message----- From: Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2019 9:02 AM To: Dave Scobie Cc: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Post Angeles-Victoria crossing Wow Dave: Incredible info. Thanks. I will be going with a group of sailboats from the Southern Idaho Sailing Association as we have done for the past two years in August when we launched from Anacortes and looped the SJ islands. This year folks want to hit more Canadian harbors and it sounds like fun. However, as cautious as I am, I’m leery of the crossing from Port Angeles and Victoria. Looks like about 22 miles or so. Even though I’ve crossed over from Sucia to Pember without any problems, I think this crossing might be out of my ability level. I know I don’t give the M15 it’s do, but I seem to always doubt myself. Thanks again, appreciate it. Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky) outdoors writer and photographer www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com <http://www.getoutdoorsnorthwest.com/> Twitter: @zimosoutdoors "Be with Tahlequah" Tahlequah, you did this. From the day you lost your baby in the summer of 2018, then your 17-day tour of grief, you've brought the KEY crucial issues to the world to help us save your Orca family.

On Jan 27, 2019, at 8:36 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:

Peter:

The things to know about crossing the Juan de Fuca Straits -

#1 understand the wind pattern - late spring, summer and early fall lightest winds are morning to early afternoon. wind builds from the west and likely a SCA to gale in the mid-afternoon through nightfall. In general if it is blowing in the morning don't go. some of the worse winds are in the Race Rocks area. In a westerly once north of this area headed the final way to the Victoria Harbour entrance you starting getting into the lee of Vancouver Island. winds are usually lighter east of the 'constriction' between Race Rocks and the WA coast.

review forecasts the days prior to see how the weather is cycling and the difference between what was predicted and actually happened.

Weather forecasts from NOAA are in three zones for the Strait: west, central and east. the US reports to read/listen are central and east -

central - https://marine.weather.gov/MapClick.php?zoneid=PZZ131#.XE3J5VVKiUk <https://marine.weather.gov/MapClick.php?zoneid=PZZ131#.XE3J5VVKiUk> east - https://marine.weather.gov/MapClick.php?zoneid=pzz132#.XE3JfFVKiUk <https://marine.weather.gov/MapClick.php?zoneid=pzz132#.XE3JfFVKiUk>

the Canadian forecasts use slightly different zone names. East in CN forecasts are the waters north of the NOAA central area -

https://weather.gc.ca/marine/forecast_e.html?mapID=02&siteID=07003 <https://weather.gc.ca/marine/forecast_e.html?mapID=02&siteID=07003>

the Haro Strait CN forecast helps understand what is happening on the NW 'side' of NOAAs East Strait forecast -

https://weather.gc.ca/marine/forecast_e.html?mapID=02&siteID=06100 <https://weather.gc.ca/marine/forecast_e.html?mapID=02&siteID=06100>

further reading that assists one understand the wind's behaviors along the entire Salish Sea -

'Taken By the Wind: The Northwest Coast: A Guide to Sailing the Coasts of British Columbia and Southeast Alaska' by Marilyn Johnson ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1532895666/ <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1532895666/> )

#2 fog: calm winds and warm air means fog. usually this comes up overnight or just as the sun rises. if there is no wind it may never clear. Spring and Fall are the worse fog 'seasons'.

#3 wind against current: if there is a strong west wind against the ebb tide the Strait can get UGLY. same can be said for a flood tide against the rare late spring, summer and early fall easterly blow. FYI - August is commonly called FOGust.

#4 BIG SHIPS GOING FAST. keep an eye out for these ;-) you can listen to VHF channel 5A as large ships will report. you can also let Vessel Traffic know you are in the area if fog and/or heavy winds.

The crossing is doable and has been done, many times, by M15s. During the first run of the Race to Alaska (R2AK 2015) a M15 took part in Sage 1 (Port Townsend to Victoria). The day started winds 20-25kts and seas 2-5'. The dayswas different in the winds moderated - not at all normal. The team crossed with no issues ... and when they arrived i checked their rig: it was way to loose. as it wasn't lost shows you how Jerry overdesinged the rig!

:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com/> FOR SALE! :: SV SWALLOW - https://sv-swallow.com <https://sv-swallow.com/> :: Montgomery 6'8" #650 :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ <https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/> :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ <https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/> :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred <http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred>

On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 12:57 PM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote: Hi all: Planning my cruise in the San Juans and Canada for August. Wondering about launching at Port Angeles and crossing over to Victoria in my M15. Been on several cruises in the SJs but never on this larger open water. Any warnings, advice, suggestions. Thanks all,

Pete Winter Sky (Zimowsky)

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link> <x-msg://7/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>