There is a great account of a guy on Lake Michigan in a Potter: http://home.att.net/~e.zeiser/sailing/sosmall.htm A watertight boat would be important with a way to pump out water that makes its way inside and secure hatches on the berth to keep stuff - weight - in the bottom. After that it would seem that if the boat weren't taking on water (so you didn't have to pump) and you weren't near shore there wouldn't be much you could do but ride it out and hope things hold together. (imagine being in the cabin with the tiller lashed and your lashing doesn't hold so the rudder starts to flop around or - as Doug had happen - the gooseneck disconnects and the boom starts flailing around beating things). Here's some You Tube videos of boats in rough weather: A sailboat in breaking waves gets rolled & dismasted (personally, it doesn't look all that bad out there except that he appears to be getting into some surf): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiRgKXs92fc A big yawl wallowing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKusg6Jyc9Y A ship pitching in large seas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G10KuLTQWzU Fishing boats: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edOUDbFtFk0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_8hOai9hGQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRO6H8puHF8 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Frank Durant Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:35 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 :Wild Conditions Well Harry....I doubt that you would find naval architect that would consider a 750lb boat capable of handling the conditions mentioned (by memory :extreme wind/waves) Even in "hove-to" position with a drogue...the light dispacement would not create a significant 'calming' slick if taken in the context of 20+ft breaking waves.I feel that it a rollover would be hard to avoid.After several.....damage would occour...enough damage and ???? There certainly are small craft that have made amazing passages, but if I remember the conditions described correctly that started this....they were EXTREME (I have deleted that e-mail..but I believe Oregon's storm with high wind/wave hieghts was mentioned) Could someone repost that original storm post? You may not cry "mommy" (intended for humour)..but as I replied originally...all sails off,set a drogue to maintain hove-to position,stay low in cabin...then PRAY ;-)

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I thoght I would pose the question to John Welsford, a respected small craft designer....."how would a 15ft boat like an M15 handle these conditions...45-50 knot winds,open ocean,32ft+ waves"...he responded..."I've only seen pictures in magazines of a Monty 15, but expect that its fairly typical in construction for a small moulded glass boat and perhaps a little better than most of its size in seaworthiness. But the conditions you describe are going to roll that boat, over and over! The only way to control that is a parachute sea anchor holding her dead bow on, and that needs to be streamed off the bow and be big enough to haul the boat bodily through each wave. Now the question will be, whats happening to the boats stability when that happens, and is the hull strong enough to take the loads of the sea anchor line and the crushing action of the wave as it goes through the crests. I dont think a skipper of one of those is going to be a good prospect from the point of view of a life insurance company" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Durant" <fdurant@webhart.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:43 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 :Wild Conditions

Found the post in 'deleted"...here it is...."Hey, since we're comparing weather notes, it is currently blowing 45 kts with gusts over 50 with wave heights of 32' at 9 second intervals 16 miles off the Oregon coast. It's raining too. Coastal headlands are seeing sustained winds of 80+ mph with gusts up to 109!! The Oregon coast can be somewhat inhospitable to small boat sailors this time of year! These conditions have been consistent all day and will continue until tomorrow evening." ...............45 knots, gusting over 50,wave heights of 32ft/9 second intervals...sustained over a period of time offshore/open water=violent !! How would any 750lb boat handle...."any way the water wanted it to"

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was the survey specific about which part of the trip the craft was 'unfit'? my guess is that the concern would be west of the island. i have friends that have taken larger craft, 32' + sail and motor boats, around the island. they said that things can get interesting in a blow on the west coast. the east side of the passage is 'easy' as one has multiple options for finding shelter. dave scobie M15 #288 Shawn Boles <shawn@ori.org> wrote: Hi: Back when I was somewhat younger, and much more foolish, I considered single-handing a 17 around Vancouver Island. I contacted a surveyor to see what needed to be done to prepare the boat. He did the survey, but strongly advised against the plan. He used a surveyor's term that stuck with me - "The boat is manifestly unfit for the journey". Lyle Hess designed boats to come back, but there appear to be conditions that even tough little Monty's should avoid. cheers, Shawn Boles Grey Mist (M17 #276 1978) -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Frank Durant Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 4:54 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 :Wild Conditions I thoght I would pose the question to John Welsford, a respected small craft designer....."how would a 15ft boat like an M15 handle these conditions...45-50 knot winds,open ocean,32ft+ waves"...he responded..."I've only seen pictures in magazines of a Monty 15, but expect that its fairly typical in construction for a small moulded glass boat and perhaps a little better than most of its size in seaworthiness. But the conditions you describe are going to roll that boat, over and over! The only way to control that is a parachute sea anchor holding her dead bow on, and that needs to be streamed off the bow and be big enough to haul the boat bodily through each wave. Now the question will be, whats happening to the boats stability when that happens, and is the hull strong enough to take the loads of the sea anchor line and the crushing action of the wave as it goes through the crests. I dont think a skipper of one of those is going to be a good prospect from the point of view of a life insurance company" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Durant" To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 9:43 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 :Wild Conditions

Found the post in 'deleted"...here it is...."Hey, since we're

comparing

weather notes, it is currently blowing 45 kts with gusts over 50 with wave heights of 32' at 9 second intervals 16 miles off the Oregon coast. It's raining too. Coastal headlands are seeing sustained winds of 80+ mph with gusts up to 109!! The Oregon coast can be somewhat inhospitable to small boat sailors this time of year! These conditions have been consistent all day and will continue until tomorrow evening." ...............45 knots, gusting over 50,wave heights of 32ft/9 second intervals...sustained over a period of time offshore/open water=violent !! How would any 750lb boat handle...."any way the water

wanted it to"

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Shawn Boles wrote:

Back when I was somewhat younger, and much more foolish, I considered single-handing a 17 around Vancouver Island. I contacted a surveyor to see what needed to be done to prepare the boat. He did the survey, but strongly advised against the plan. He used a surveyor's term that stuck with me - "The boat is manifestly unfit for the journey". Lyle Hess designed boats to come back, but there appear to be conditions that even tough little Monty's should avoid.

There was an article in Small Craft Advisor that settled my thoughts about the Monty's, about two years ago. The author opined that a suitable blue water cruiser needed, among other things: a high bridgedeck to keep water out of the cabin; a solid keel so when you get rolled, your stability isn't compromised when the centerboard flops back into the trunk; and a sealed mast, so that it floats. Monty's don't have these. Flicka's and NorSea's do. Nevertheless, a M15 was sailed to Hawaii from SoCal some years ago, In the right weather, it's doable. But not up on the west side of Vancouver Island. John Fleming M-17 #337: "Star Cross'd"