Happy Holidays Listers..... I just received in the mail the Christmas present I bought my M17. It is a 30 watt solar power briefcase from a company called Goal Zero. They have a fabulous line of outdoor battery packs, cables, solar panels, and inverters.View the panel I bought at: http://store.goal0.com/index.php?p=product&id=14This will be a great addition to topping up your boat house battery when you away from shore power exploring the wild wilderness. I'm looking at all the snow outside my window, thinking about pleasant boating trips that await me...... Go small, go now.... Bones ____________________________________________________________ AIU Online® Official Site 90% Of Students are Satisfied With Their Experience at AIU. See Why! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d0cc89bda6e57bf2b7st06vuc
Hope everyone is having a good holiday! I just took off my C clamps and tried to remove the tubular rod that had been setting the position of the bushings I had epoxied into my centerboard and the bushings also broke out. I had some weeks ago asked about bonding in brass bushings to the steel centerboard and based on the advise I got decided that teflon or in the case of what I got Rulon bushings (reinforced PTFE) would be best for the center pin hole on the M-23 board I am trying to finish. So I let the epoxy set for a week and a half over some days that exceeded the 35 degree min for the fast hardner mix. The epoxy had definitely cured but the bushings did not bond in very well apparently. The bushings are meant to be very slippery so I suspect I am going to need to help give a rough surface for mechanical bonding by scuffing up or roughing up the surface that mates with the centerboard. I know some sailors said they had teflon bushings in the centerboard hole. Are these bonded in? Press fit? Any ideas of suggestions that might improve the outcome of a second try would be much appreciated. Thanks Robbin M-23 & M-10
Sorry folks, never mind. The System 3 epoxy book says that it does not bond Teflon. Guess I just proved that. It does say it will bond "Thermoplastic materials like vinyl plastics or ABS". Does Nylon fit in the category of a material that epoxy will bond to well? Thanks Robbin On 12/27/2010 7:43 PM, robbin roddewig wrote:
Hope everyone is having a good holiday! I just took off my C clamps and tried to remove the tubular rod that had been setting the position of the bushings I had epoxied into my centerboard and the bushings also broke out. I had some weeks ago asked about bonding in brass bushings to the steel centerboard and based on the advise I got decided that teflon or in the case of what I got Rulon bushings (reinforced PTFE) would be best for the center pin hole on the M-23 board I am trying to finish. So I let the epoxy set for a week and a half over some days that exceeded the 35 degree min for the fast hardner mix. The epoxy had definitely cured but the bushings did not bond in very well apparently. The bushings are meant to be very slippery so I suspect I am going to need to help give a rough surface for mechanical bonding by scuffing up or roughing up the surface that mates with the centerboard. I know some sailors said they had teflon bushings in the centerboard hole. Are these bonded in? Press fit? Any ideas of suggestions that might improve the outcome of a second try would be much appreciated.
Thanks Robbin M-23 & M-10
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Hi Robbin, I haven't seen all your posts ,so I hope I'm not repeating what has already been said. I would forget plastic all together,all that type of plastic will flow (squish) out of shape,maybe Delrin would work but it could crack. Use a bronze bushing, it is very happy next to the SS pin and the cast iron. Look for something with the correct I D and bore the centerboard if necessary or find bronze rod and drill the i d. If trunk clearance allows you can make it a little proud of the centerboard width. I can't think why it should be bonded with epoxy, if it's only close to being the right size it can't go anywhere. Let me know if I can help Stan --- On Mon, 12/27/10, robbin roddewig <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote: From: robbin roddewig <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bonding in bushings To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 5:29 PM Sorry folks, never mind. The System 3 epoxy book says that it does not bond Teflon. Guess I just proved that. It does say it will bond "Thermoplastic materials like vinyl plastics or ABS". Does Nylon fit in the category of a material that epoxy will bond to well? Thanks Robbin On 12/27/2010 7:43 PM, robbin roddewig wrote:
Hope everyone is having a good holiday! I just took off my C clamps and tried to remove the tubular rod that had been setting the position of the bushings I had epoxied into my centerboard and the bushings also broke out. I had some weeks ago asked about bonding in brass bushings to the steel centerboard and based on the advise I got decided that teflon or in the case of what I got Rulon bushings (reinforced PTFE) would be best for the center pin hole on the M-23 board I am trying to finish. So I let the epoxy set for a week and a half over some days that exceeded the 35 degree min for the fast hardner mix. The epoxy had definitely cured but the bushings did not bond in very well apparently. The bushings are meant to be very slippery so I suspect I am going to need to help give a rough surface for mechanical bonding by scuffing up or roughing up the surface that mates with the centerboard. I know some sailors said they had teflon bushings in the centerboard hole. Are these bonded in? Press fit? Any ideas of suggestions that might improve the outcome of a second try would be much appreciated.
Thanks Robbin M-23 & M-10
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Thanks Stan, I actually have two bronze flanged sleeve bearings already from my original plan. I routed out the board with a roto-zip and a grinding wheel to allow the flange of each bushing to sit flush. I am not sure this is much room to leave the bearing proud based on the board being held in the slot (all 300+ lbs of it) by the extra width caused by the rust scale when I was taking it out. I do not want to find that the bushing is a bit too wide for the slot during install, awkward! I was picturing the two flanged bearings bonded in (one from each side) since I expect the new pin to put some lateral force on the bearings when it is pounded in during the install of the board. I plan on rounding the end of the pin. Perhaps a flanged sleeve with a flange on only one side would be a better arrangement. I would put the pivot pin in from the flanged side. I could make it long enough to go through the width of the board. I plan on using silicon bronze for the pivot pin so the only worry would be the bronze and the cast iron. If that is not an issue then bronze bushing it will be! Appreciate your help. Robbin On 12/27/2010 9:39 PM, Stan Susman wrote:
Hi Robbin,
I haven't seen all your posts ,so I hope I'm not repeating what has already been said. I would forget plastic all together,all that type of plastic will flow (squish) out of shape,maybe Delrin would work but it could crack. Use a bronze bushing, it is very happy next to the SS pin and the cast iron. Look for something with the correct I D and bore the centerboard if necessary or find bronze rod and drill the i d. If trunk clearance allows you can make it a little proud of the centerboard width. I can't think why it should be bonded with epoxy, if it's only close to being the right size it can't go anywhere. Let me know if I can help
Stan
--- On Mon, 12/27/10, robbin roddewig<robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
From: robbin roddewig<robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bonding in bushings To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats"<montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 5:29 PM
Sorry folks, never mind. The System 3 epoxy book says that it does not bond Teflon. Guess I just proved that. It does say it will bond "Thermoplastic materials like vinyl plastics or ABS". Does Nylon fit in the category of a material that epoxy will bond to well?
Thanks Robbin
On 12/27/2010 7:43 PM, robbin roddewig wrote:
Hope everyone is having a good holiday! I just took off my C clamps and tried to remove the tubular rod that had been setting the position of the bushings I had epoxied into my centerboard and the bushings also broke out. I had some weeks ago asked about bonding in brass bushings to the steel centerboard and based on the advise I got decided that teflon or in the case of what I got Rulon bushings (reinforced PTFE) would be best for the center pin hole on the M-23 board I am trying to finish. So I let the epoxy set for a week and a half over some days that exceeded the 35 degree min for the fast hardner mix. The epoxy had definitely cured but the bushings did not bond in very well apparently. The bushings are meant to be very slippery so I suspect I am going to need to help give a rough surface for mechanical bonding by scuffing up or roughing up the surface that mates with the centerboard. I know some sailors said they had teflon bushings in the centerboard hole. Are these bonded in? Press fit? Any ideas of suggestions that might improve the outcome of a second try would be much appreciated.
Thanks Robbin M-23& M-10
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Robbin, I'm not a metal expert, ( perhaps someone out there is ?) but I'd be careful with the choice of the pivot pin material. You for sure wouldn't want anything less stiff then stainless, and silicon bronze may be less stiff. The stiffest and higher psi bronze is alumabronze I think it's 2/3 s more stiff then silicon bronze, remember that it's not just the weight of the board but you might want about a 3-4 to 1 safety margin to account for the banging and abuse that all things get (shock loads) . All that kind of data is on the net. I think most 304 stainless runs about 110,000 PSI and you should compare other material to that. If there is any air gap between your board/bushing and the centerboard trunk you could easily slide a big washer or 2 up the trunk when installing the board. use something like a steel ruler and lightly tape the washer to it and slide it up. Should be optional but it sounds like you are trying to be very careful over all. Stan --- On Tue, 12/28/10, robbin roddewig <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote: From: robbin roddewig <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bonding in bushings To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tuesday, December 28, 2010, 4:56 AM Thanks Stan, I actually have two bronze flanged sleeve bearings already from my original plan. I routed out the board with a roto-zip and a grinding wheel to allow the flange of each bushing to sit flush. I am not sure this is much room to leave the bearing proud based on the board being held in the slot (all 300+ lbs of it) by the extra width caused by the rust scale when I was taking it out. I do not want to find that the bushing is a bit too wide for the slot during install, awkward! I was picturing the two flanged bearings bonded in (one from each side) since I expect the new pin to put some lateral force on the bearings when it is pounded in during the install of the board. I plan on rounding the end of the pin. Perhaps a flanged sleeve with a flange on only one side would be a better arrangement. I would put the pivot pin in from the flanged side. I could make it long enough to go through the width of the board. I plan on using silicon bronze for the pivot pin so the only worry would be the bronze and the cast iron. If that is not an issue then bronze bushing it will be! Appreciate your help. Robbin On 12/27/2010 9:39 PM, Stan Susman wrote:
Hi Robbin, I haven't seen all your posts ,so I hope I'm not repeating what has already been said. I would forget plastic all together,all that type of plastic will flow (squish) out of shape,maybe Delrin would work but it could crack. Use a bronze bushing, it is very happy next to the SS pin and the cast iron. Look for something with the correct I D and bore the centerboard if necessary or find bronze rod and drill the i d. If trunk clearance allows you can make it a little proud of the centerboard width. I can't think why it should be bonded with epoxy, if it's only close to being the right size it can't go anywhere. Let me know if I can help Stan --- On Mon, 12/27/10, robbin roddewig<robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> wrote:
From: robbin roddewig<robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Bonding in bushings To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats"<montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 5:29 PM
Sorry folks, never mind. The System 3 epoxy book says that it does not bond Teflon. Guess I just proved that. It does say it will bond "Thermoplastic materials like vinyl plastics or ABS". Does Nylon fit in the category of a material that epoxy will bond to well?
Thanks Robbin
On 12/27/2010 7:43 PM, robbin roddewig wrote:
Hope everyone is having a good holiday! I just took off my C clamps and tried to remove the tubular rod that had been setting the position of the bushings I had epoxied into my centerboard and the bushings also broke out. I had some weeks ago asked about bonding in brass bushings to the steel centerboard and based on the advise I got decided that teflon or in the case of what I got Rulon bushings (reinforced PTFE) would be best for the center pin hole on the M-23 board I am trying to finish. So I let the epoxy set for a week and a half over some days that exceeded the 35 degree min for the fast hardner mix. The epoxy had definitely cured but the bushings did not bond in very well apparently. The bushings are meant to be very slippery so I suspect I am going to need to help give a rough surface for mechanical bonding by scuffing up or roughing up the surface that mates with the centerboard. I know some sailors said they had teflon bushings in the centerboard hole. Are these bonded in? Press fit? Any ideas of suggestions that might improve the outcome of a second try would be much appreciated.
Thanks Robbin M-23& M-10
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We delivered the race boat for its winter treatment the other day. A Laser 28, having the hull faired and recoated. We drove 200 miles to the boat shop that we had arranged with, a nice days drive hauling 2 tons. We dropped it off with the boat guy, and as we prepared to hop in the truck and go back to Lawrence, I saw a familiar shape under a tarp. I asked Nate, the hand at the yard, is that a Montgomery/ He said I think so, so I sidled over to it to look under the tarp. As I drew closer, I could tell that it was an older model, with the cutout transom. Looked to be in good condition, no name on the stern. I lifted the tarp on the port side to see if there was a name there, but by this time I had a close enough look to know that my suspicion was right. The traveler detail confirmed it, the aluminum rail was another piece of the puzzle, but as I moved forward and looked down at the trailer, my last name painted on the trailer really told me that this was Ausasea, ex-Osprey, my first M-17. Howard has taken great care of her, and it really made me feel good to see my former charge being looked after so well. She is in for a new bottom job, similar to what I have arranged for Osprey II for this spring. I always enjoy seeing M boats, and this one was more special than most. Thomas Howe Mailto:Thomas@TEHowe.com O --------(\ ---------- ~ (\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
nothing like finding an old friend. thanks for sharing the story Thomas. : Dave Scobie : M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com : Sage Marine - www.sagemarine.us --- On Wed, 2/2/11, Thomas Howe <Thomas@ThomasHoweOnline.com> wrote: We delivered the race boat for its winter treatment the other day. A Laser 28, having the hull faired and recoated. We drove 200 miles to the boat shop that we had arranged with, a nice days drive hauling 2 tons. We dropped it off with the boat guy, and as we prepared to hop in the truck and go back to Lawrence, I saw a familiar shape under a tarp. I asked Nate, the hand at the yard, is that a Montgomery/ He said I think so, so I sidled over to it to look under the tarp. As I drew closer, I could tell that it was an older model, with the cutout transom. Looked to be in good condition, no name on the stern. I lifted the tarp on the port side to see if there was a name there, but by this time I had a close enough look to know that my suspicion was right. The traveler detail confirmed it, the aluminum rail was another piece of the puzzle, but as I moved forward and looked down at the trailer, my last name painted on the trailer really told me that this was Ausasea, ex-Osprey, my first M-17. Howard has taken great care of her, and it really made me feel good to see my former charge being looked after so well. She is in for a new bottom job, similar to what I have arranged for Osprey II for this spring. I always enjoy seeing M boats, and this one was more special than most. Thomas Howe Mailto:Thomas@TEHowe.com O --------(\ ---------- ~ (\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Great story! A close friend of mine Tom had a Drascombe coaster 22' I think about 25 years ago. he sold it and got into F -27 boats about the time I met him. We had a ball for years. He recently dumped me for a new wife so the road trips are a thing of the past. He recently found his old Drascombe and bourht it again! I do not know if the boat found him of visa versa. Full circle once again! ________________________________ From: Thomas Howe <Thomas@ThomasHoweOnline.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 10:11:52 AM Subject: M_Boats: A nice trot down memory lane We delivered the race boat for its winter treatment the other day. A Laser 28, having the hull faired and recoated. We drove 200 miles to the boat shop that we had arranged with, a nice days drive hauling 2 tons. We dropped it off with the boat guy, and as we prepared to hop in the truck and go back to Lawrence, I saw a familiar shape under a tarp. I asked Nate, the hand at the yard, is that a Montgomery/ He said I think so, so I sidled over to it to look under the tarp. As I drew closer, I could tell that it was an older model, with the cutout transom. Looked to be in good condition, no name on the stern. I lifted the tarp on the port side to see if there was a name there, but by this time I had a close enough look to know that my suspicion was right. The traveler detail confirmed it, the aluminum rail was another piece of the puzzle, but as I moved forward and looked down at the trailer, my last name painted on the trailer really told me that this was Ausasea, ex-Osprey, my first M-17. Howard has taken great care of her, and it really made me feel good to see my former charge being looked after so well. She is in for a new bottom job, similar to what I have arranged for Osprey II for this spring. I always enjoy seeing M boats, and this one was more special than most. Thomas Howe Mailto:Thomas@TEHowe.com O --------(\ ---------- ~ (\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Good to hear the tarp was still on. We had 14 inches of snow yesterday. Would hate to think of that cockpit full of snow. Was the bottom paint on yet? Was going to go with green this time, but realized the blue sail cover wouldn't work and of course a green sail cover would cry out for new tan bark sails. Sanity took hold at the last minute, so blue it is. Sigh......... When are you picking your boat up? It could be that I need to drive down to meet you and we splash her for a day sail? She is stripped bare for the winter, but I know where the parts are. Howard On Feb 2, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Thomas Howe wrote:
We delivered the race boat for its winter treatment the other day. A Laser 28, having the hull faired and recoated. We drove 200 miles to the boat shop that we had arranged with, a nice days drive hauling 2 tons. We dropped it off with the boat guy, and as we prepared to hop in the truck and go back to Lawrence, I saw a familiar shape under a tarp. I asked Nate, the hand at the yard, is that a Montgomery/ He said I think so, so I sidled over to it to look under the tarp. As I drew closer, I could tell that it was an older model, with the cutout transom. Looked to be in good condition, no name on the stern. I lifted the tarp on the port side to see if there was a name there, but by this time I had a close enough look to know that my suspicion was right. The traveler detail confirmed it, the aluminum rail was another piece of the puzzle, but as I moved forward and looked down at the trailer, my last name painted on the trailer really told me that this was Ausasea, ex-Osprey, my first M-17. Howard has taken great care of her, and it really made me feel good to see my former charge being looked after so well. She is in for a new bottom job, similar to what I have arranged for Osprey II for this spring. I always enjoy seeing M boats, and this one was more special than most.
Thomas Howe Mailto:Thomas@TEHowe.com O --------(\ ---------- ~ (\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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This was before the snow, on Saturday it was 62 degrees in Stockton, today here it's 8. No bottom paint yet, and the tarp was secure. I don't think that they would let your boat come to harm. My cockpit is in fact full of snow and ice today. I made the same decision on my Montgomery as well, a whole set of dominos lean on the color choice! I'm not sure yet when we'll go pick up Dr. Go (Here's a shot of her from our club website http://tinyurl.com/6depjrx ). My racing buddies might be the ones to pick her up, if I go and we can coordinate it I think that it would be great to rendezvous. Thomas Howe Mailto:Thomas@TEHowe.com O --------(\ ---------- ~ (\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Howard Audsley Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 12:21 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: A nice trot down memory lane Good to hear the tarp was still on. We had 14 inches of snow yesterday. Would hate to think of that cockpit full of snow. Was the bottom paint on yet? Was going to go with green this time, but realized the blue sail cover wouldn't work and of course a green sail cover would cry out for new tan bark sails. Sanity took hold at the last minute, so blue it is. Sigh......... When are you picking your boat up? It could be that I need to drive down to meet you and we splash her for a day sail? She is stripped bare for the winter, but I know where the parts are. Howard On Feb 2, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Thomas Howe wrote:
We delivered the race boat for its winter treatment the other day. A Laser 28, having the hull faired and recoated. We drove 200 miles to the boat shop that we had arranged with, a nice days drive hauling 2 tons. We dropped it off with the boat guy, and as we prepared to hop in the truck and go back to Lawrence, I saw a familiar shape under a tarp. I asked Nate, the hand at the yard, is that a Montgomery/ He said I think so, so I sidled over to it to look under the tarp. As I drew closer, I could tell that it was an older model, with the cutout transom. Looked to be in good condition, no name on the stern. I lifted the tarp on the port side to see if there was a name there, but by this time I had a close enough look to know that my suspicion was right. The traveler detail confirmed it, the aluminum rail was another piece of the puzzle, but as I moved forward and looked down at the trailer, my last name painted on the trailer really told me that this was Ausasea, ex-Osprey, my first M-17. Howard has taken great care of her, and it really made me feel good to see my former charge being looked after so well. She is in for a new bottom job, similar to what I have arranged for Osprey II for this spring. I always enjoy seeing M boats, and this one was more special than most.
Thomas Howe Mailto:Thomas@TEHowe.com O --------(\ ---------- ~ (\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ (\ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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participants (7)
-
bownez＠juno.com -
Howard Audsley -
Louis Remmers -
robbin roddewig -
Stan Susman -
Thomas Howe -
W David Scobie