Re: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 251, Issue 3
So I am not sure how best to respond but I moore my 17 Ft Montgomery Blue Jay in a freshwater MN lake each year and found a anchor system that has stood the test of some hellacious summer storms and the boat is still where I left it . Please investigate ( Quality Anchors - EZANCHOR ) https://ezanchor.ca/ | | | | | | | | | | | Quality Anchors - EZANCHOR EZANCHOR, the anchor that holds through the storm. Manufactured in Stony Plain, AB. Explore installation instruc... | | | I found that this system has been engineered perfectly for mooring and has far more holding strength than other options especially for the sail boats we are sailing. Its very easy to install and portable enough to sail with you too your cruse destinations . Each year I simply screw it in the rocky sand all the way down in chest high water ( comes with a main screw post with special installation tube attachments , ample chain, a buoy and part of a rubber tire which acts as shock absorber a key component in the system. ) I enjoys sailing my 2008 M17 - Blue Jay Vincent Facchiano OD FAAO please text only - 815-218-7777Independent Primary Eye Care Optometrist www.aacoeyes.org/for-great-vision affiliated for 40 years with Lenscrafters & Pearle Vision www.RentVIP.US Important Confidentiality Notice: This message and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this message or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by returning or forwarding it to the sender and deleting this copy from your system. And if you read this far, may God Bless you and the fine service you provide the world. On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 07:01:48 PM CST, <montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Anchor chain (John Schinnerer) 2. Re: Anchor chain (Dave Scobie) 3. Re: Anchor chain (John Schinnerer) 4. Re: Anchor chain (Dave Scobie) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 15:43:25 -0800 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <4fd4dc8a-3963-4f0e-8dbf-4d28cd0a2c5b@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Re chain... My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.). Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode. cheers, John All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose. On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 15:48:48 -0800 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <CAGjBOA4Br-OKUtMx1Uhr2a-H==H8HFXMS=EVo-L2ydPyHwhwaA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" John. SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 16:43:41 -0800 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <ac341edd-07f1-435d-b48c-3adde0877ad4@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Yep, that's what "they" say, whoever "they" are...:-) There are other perspectives out there - as Groucho famously said, "Those are my principles! If you don't like them...I have others!" Silliness aside, for my uses to date, it makes zero sense to wrestle with 17 ft of chain to no benefit and much extra weight and muddiness. And when I'm eventually cruising more challenging tidal waters I'll have approximately as much chain as "they" say. Some point out that boat length per se has little to do with how the anchor, chain, rode, and lake/sea bottom actually interact. And boat length does not necessarily correlate to boat weight and/or windage (think multi-hulls; unballasted camp cruisers; expedition loaded vs. day-sailing; chunky pilot house motor-sailors vs. low-slung minimum-windage designs; etc.). It's a bit like choosing anchor size, to me. Most manufacturer charts are based on very generic assumptions about boat size and weight correlation. Works well perhaps for medium to huge ballasted monohulls. But what if one's boat doesn't fit those standard assumptions? M17s often don't - they tend to be in one length category, but a different displacement category. We can say "when in doubt go bigger," but what about the possible downsides of trying to manage an oversized, overweight anchor on a small boat? Just some thoughts to ponder. I'm all for reason-and-testing backed SOP, but not much for Stale Old Protocol. cheers, John On 2/21/24 15:48, Dave Scobie wrote:
John.
SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
" On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 17:01:04 -0800 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <CAGjBOA4y4QWAUoDf_vc4vVk887Vqxx5UcWqP7gDqeGgcJmqw=g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi John: "They' are professional and liveaboard boaters and cruisers (aka myself). The reason is the greater weight and therefore better bite angle for the anchor and to keep wear on the rope to a minimum (or none). Around the Salish Sea the rocks and barnacles will quickly saw through rope. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 16:44 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Yep, that's what "they" say, whoever "they" are...:-)
There are other perspectives out there - as Groucho famously said, "Those are my principles! If you don't like them...I have others!"
Silliness aside, for my uses to date, it makes zero sense to wrestle with 17 ft of chain to no benefit and much extra weight and muddiness. And when I'm eventually cruising more challenging tidal waters I'll have approximately as much chain as "they" say.
Some point out that boat length per se has little to do with how the anchor, chain, rode, and lake/sea bottom actually interact. And boat length does not necessarily correlate to boat weight and/or windage (think multi-hulls; unballasted camp cruisers; expedition loaded vs. day-sailing; chunky pilot house motor-sailors vs. low-slung minimum-windage designs; etc.).
It's a bit like choosing anchor size, to me. Most manufacturer charts are based on very generic assumptions about boat size and weight correlation. Works well perhaps for medium to huge ballasted monohulls. But what if one's boat doesn't fit those standard assumptions? M17s often don't - they tend to be in one length category, but a different displacement category. We can say "when in doubt go bigger," but what about the possible downsides of trying to manage an oversized, overweight anchor on a small boat?
Just some thoughts to ponder. I'm all for reason-and-testing backed SOP, but not much for Stale Old Protocol.
cheers, John
On 2/21/24 15:48, Dave Scobie wrote:
John.
SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
" On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list -- montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To unsubscribe send an email to montgomery_boats-leave@mailman.xmission.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! ------------------------------ End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 251, Issue 3 ************************************************
Those sorts of anchor-auger systems can be super strong in the right soils and pretty good even in crappy soils and sand. I got a set at Harbor Freight for cheap and used them for all sorts of purposes. For geeking out, as a rough approximation, I think you can estimate the holding power to be the weight of the soil of a cone that starts at the tip and goes out at the 90 deg- "angle-of-repose" (which is basically the angle of a pile of soil). Basically if it fails, it's going to pull out a giant cone of dirt. the better the soil, the wider the cone. This cone of dirt is going to go as the cube of the depth, so a 6 foot auger is going to be WAY stronger than a 3 foot auger...even if the tip looks more or less the same. The tire as a shock-absorber is pretty good redneck idea too. I suppose the disadvantage for underwater is that the soil or sand could be eroded and it might lose it's depth over time if you weren't monitoring it. On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 06:13:55 PM PST, Dr Vince Facchiano via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: So I am not sure how best to respond but I moore my 17 Ft Montgomery Blue Jay in a freshwater MN lake each year and found a anchor system that has stood the test of some hellacious summer storms and the boat is still where I left it . Please investigate ( Quality Anchors - EZANCHOR ) https://ezanchor.ca/ | | | | | | | | | | | Quality Anchors - EZANCHOR EZANCHOR, the anchor that holds through the storm. Manufactured in Stony Plain, AB. Explore installation instruc... | | | I found that this system has been engineered perfectly for mooring and has far more holding strength than other options especially for the sail boats we are sailing. Its very easy to install and portable enough to sail with you too your cruse destinations . Each year I simply screw it in the rocky sand all the way down in chest high water ( comes with a main screw post with special installation tube attachments , ample chain, a buoy and part of a rubber tire which acts as shock absorber a key component in the system. ) I enjoys sailing my 2008 M17 - Blue Jay Vincent Facchiano OD FAAO please text only - 815-218-7777Independent Primary Eye Care Optometrist www.aacoeyes.org/for-great-vision affiliated for 40 years with Lenscrafters & Pearle Vision www.RentVIP.US Important Confidentiality Notice: This message and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this message or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by returning or forwarding it to the sender and deleting this copy from your system. And if you read this far, may God Bless you and the fine service you provide the world. On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 07:01:48 PM CST, <montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Anchor chain (John Schinnerer) 2. Re: Anchor chain (Dave Scobie) 3. Re: Anchor chain (John Schinnerer) 4. Re: Anchor chain (Dave Scobie) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 15:43:25 -0800 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <4fd4dc8a-3963-4f0e-8dbf-4d28cd0a2c5b@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Re chain... My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.). Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode. cheers, John All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose. On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 15:48:48 -0800 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <CAGjBOA4Br-OKUtMx1Uhr2a-H==H8HFXMS=EVo-L2ydPyHwhwaA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" John. SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 16:43:41 -0800 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <ac341edd-07f1-435d-b48c-3adde0877ad4@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Yep, that's what "they" say, whoever "they" are...:-) There are other perspectives out there - as Groucho famously said, "Those are my principles! If you don't like them...I have others!" Silliness aside, for my uses to date, it makes zero sense to wrestle with 17 ft of chain to no benefit and much extra weight and muddiness. And when I'm eventually cruising more challenging tidal waters I'll have approximately as much chain as "they" say. Some point out that boat length per se has little to do with how the anchor, chain, rode, and lake/sea bottom actually interact. And boat length does not necessarily correlate to boat weight and/or windage (think multi-hulls; unballasted camp cruisers; expedition loaded vs. day-sailing; chunky pilot house motor-sailors vs. low-slung minimum-windage designs; etc.). It's a bit like choosing anchor size, to me. Most manufacturer charts are based on very generic assumptions about boat size and weight correlation. Works well perhaps for medium to huge ballasted monohulls. But what if one's boat doesn't fit those standard assumptions? M17s often don't - they tend to be in one length category, but a different displacement category. We can say "when in doubt go bigger," but what about the possible downsides of trying to manage an oversized, overweight anchor on a small boat? Just some thoughts to ponder. I'm all for reason-and-testing backed SOP, but not much for Stale Old Protocol. cheers, John On 2/21/24 15:48, Dave Scobie wrote:
John.
SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
" On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 17:01:04 -0800 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <CAGjBOA4y4QWAUoDf_vc4vVk887Vqxx5UcWqP7gDqeGgcJmqw=g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi John: "They' are professional and liveaboard boaters and cruisers (aka myself). The reason is the greater weight and therefore better bite angle for the anchor and to keep wear on the rope to a minimum (or none). Around the Salish Sea the rocks and barnacles will quickly saw through rope. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 16:44 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Yep, that's what "they" say, whoever "they" are...:-)
There are other perspectives out there - as Groucho famously said, "Those are my principles! If you don't like them...I have others!"
Silliness aside, for my uses to date, it makes zero sense to wrestle with 17 ft of chain to no benefit and much extra weight and muddiness. And when I'm eventually cruising more challenging tidal waters I'll have approximately as much chain as "they" say.
Some point out that boat length per se has little to do with how the anchor, chain, rode, and lake/sea bottom actually interact. And boat length does not necessarily correlate to boat weight and/or windage (think multi-hulls; unballasted camp cruisers; expedition loaded vs. day-sailing; chunky pilot house motor-sailors vs. low-slung minimum-windage designs; etc.).
It's a bit like choosing anchor size, to me. Most manufacturer charts are based on very generic assumptions about boat size and weight correlation. Works well perhaps for medium to huge ballasted monohulls. But what if one's boat doesn't fit those standard assumptions? M17s often don't - they tend to be in one length category, but a different displacement category. We can say "when in doubt go bigger," but what about the possible downsides of trying to manage an oversized, overweight anchor on a small boat?
Just some thoughts to ponder. I'm all for reason-and-testing backed SOP, but not much for Stale Old Protocol.
cheers, John
On 2/21/24 15:48, Dave Scobie wrote:
John.
SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
" On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list -- montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To unsubscribe send an email to montgomery_boats-leave@mailman.xmission.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! ------------------------------ End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 251, Issue 3 ************************************************
I’m sorry, but after watching the video on this I think this is absurd. No way I’d leave my boat moored to this thing. Not to mention the difficulty of installing it in the 2’ range of water depth recommended. No way… www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Feb 21, 2024, at 7:29 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Those sorts of anchor-auger systems can be super strong in the right soils and pretty good even in crappy soils and sand. I got a set at Harbor Freight for cheap and used them for all sorts of purposes.
For geeking out, as a rough approximation, I think you can estimate the holding power to be the weight of the soil of a cone that starts at the tip and goes out at the 90 deg- "angle-of-repose" (which is basically the angle of a pile of soil). Basically if it fails, it's going to pull out a giant cone of dirt. the better the soil, the wider the cone. This cone of dirt is going to go as the cube of the depth, so a 6 foot auger is going to be WAY stronger than a 3 foot auger...even if the tip looks more or less the same.
The tire as a shock-absorber is pretty good redneck idea too. I suppose the disadvantage for underwater is that the soil or sand could be eroded and it might lose it's depth over time if you weren't monitoring it.
On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 06:13:55 PM PST, Dr Vince Facchiano via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
So I am not sure how best to respond but I moore my 17 Ft Montgomery Blue Jay in a freshwater MN lake each year and found a anchor system that has stood the test of some hellacious summer storms and the boat is still where I left it . Please investigate ( Quality Anchors - EZANCHOR ) https://ezanchor.ca/
| | | | | |
|
| | | | Quality Anchors - EZANCHOR
EZANCHOR, the anchor that holds through the storm. Manufactured in Stony Plain, AB. Explore installation instruc... |
|
|
I found that this system has been engineered perfectly for mooring and has far more holding strength than other options especially for the sail boats we are sailing. Its very easy to install and portable enough to sail with you too your cruse destinations . Each year I simply screw it in the rocky sand all the way down in chest high water ( comes with a main screw post with special installation tube attachments , ample chain, a buoy and part of a rubber tire which acts as shock absorber a key component in the system. )
I enjoys sailing my 2008 M17 - Blue Jay
Vincent Facchiano OD FAAO please text only - 815-218-7777Independent Primary Eye Care Optometrist www.aacoeyes.org/for-great-vision affiliated for 40 years with Lenscrafters & Pearle Vision www.RentVIP.US
Important Confidentiality Notice: This message and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this message or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by returning or forwarding it to the sender and deleting this copy from your system. And if you read this far, may God Bless you and the fine service you provide the world.
On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 07:01:48 PM CST, <montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Anchor chain (John Schinnerer) 2. Re: Anchor chain (Dave Scobie) 3. Re: Anchor chain (John Schinnerer) 4. Re: Anchor chain (Dave Scobie)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 15:43:25 -0800 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <4fd4dc8a-3963-4f0e-8dbf-4d28cd0a2c5b@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote: 20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 15:48:48 -0800 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <CAGjBOA4Br-OKUtMx1Uhr2a-H==H8HFXMS=EVo-L2ydPyHwhwaA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
John.
SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 16:43:41 -0800 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <ac341edd-07f1-435d-b48c-3adde0877ad4@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Yep, that's what "they" say, whoever "they" are...:-)
There are other perspectives out there - as Groucho famously said, "Those are my principles! If you don't like them...I have others!"
Silliness aside, for my uses to date, it makes zero sense to wrestle with 17 ft of chain to no benefit and much extra weight and muddiness. And when I'm eventually cruising more challenging tidal waters I'll have approximately as much chain as "they" say.
Some point out that boat length per se has little to do with how the anchor, chain, rode, and lake/sea bottom actually interact. And boat length does not necessarily correlate to boat weight and/or windage (think multi-hulls; unballasted camp cruisers; expedition loaded vs. day-sailing; chunky pilot house motor-sailors vs. low-slung minimum-windage designs; etc.).
It's a bit like choosing anchor size, to me. Most manufacturer charts are based on very generic assumptions about boat size and weight correlation. Works well perhaps for medium to huge ballasted monohulls. But what if one's boat doesn't fit those standard assumptions? M17s often don't - they tend to be in one length category, but a different displacement category. We can say "when in doubt go bigger," but what about the possible downsides of trying to manage an oversized, overweight anchor on a small boat?
Just some thoughts to ponder. I'm all for reason-and-testing backed SOP, but not much for Stale Old Protocol.
cheers, John
On 2/21/24 15:48, Dave Scobie wrote: John.
SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
" On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 17:01:04 -0800 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <CAGjBOA4y4QWAUoDf_vc4vVk887Vqxx5UcWqP7gDqeGgcJmqw=g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi John:
"They' are professional and liveaboard boaters and cruisers (aka myself).
The reason is the greater weight and therefore better bite angle for the anchor and to keep wear on the rope to a minimum (or none). Around the Salish Sea the rocks and barnacles will quickly saw through rope.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 16:44 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Yep, that's what "they" say, whoever "they" are...:-)
There are other perspectives out there - as Groucho famously said, "Those are my principles! If you don't like them...I have others!"
Silliness aside, for my uses to date, it makes zero sense to wrestle with 17 ft of chain to no benefit and much extra weight and muddiness. And when I'm eventually cruising more challenging tidal waters I'll have approximately as much chain as "they" say.
Some point out that boat length per se has little to do with how the anchor, chain, rode, and lake/sea bottom actually interact. And boat length does not necessarily correlate to boat weight and/or windage (think multi-hulls; unballasted camp cruisers; expedition loaded vs. day-sailing; chunky pilot house motor-sailors vs. low-slung minimum-windage designs; etc.).
It's a bit like choosing anchor size, to me. Most manufacturer charts are based on very generic assumptions about boat size and weight correlation. Works well perhaps for medium to huge ballasted monohulls. But what if one's boat doesn't fit those standard assumptions? M17s often don't - they tend to be in one length category, but a different displacement category. We can say "when in doubt go bigger," but what about the possible downsides of trying to manage an oversized, overweight anchor on a small boat?
Just some thoughts to ponder. I'm all for reason-and-testing backed SOP, but not much for Stale Old Protocol.
cheers, John
On 2/21/24 15:48, Dave Scobie wrote: John.
SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
" On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------
Subject: Digest Footer
_______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list -- montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To unsubscribe send an email to montgomery_boats-leave@mailman.xmission.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
------------------------------
End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 251, Issue 3 ************************************************
If you’ve tied up to a recently installed state parks or DNR mooring buoy in Puget Sound you’ve likely used a helical anchor. They work great for permanent anchors- but yes, unlikely to be practical as a cruising anchor to be put out each night at any significant depth. In the right lake setting, perhaps! Alex On Thu, Feb 22, 2024 at 3:41 PM Rusty Knorr via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I’m sorry, but after watching the video on this I think this is absurd. No way I’d leave my boat moored to this thing. Not to mention the difficulty of installing it in the 2’ range of water depth recommended. No way… www.rustyknorr.weebly.com
On Feb 21, 2024, at 7:29 PM, Lawrence Winiarski via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Those sorts of anchor-auger systems can be super strong in the right soils and pretty good even in crappy soils and sand. I got a set at Harbor Freight for cheap and used them for all sorts of purposes.
For geeking out, as a rough approximation, I think you can estimate the holding power to be the weight of the soil of a cone that starts at the tip and goes out at the 90 deg- "angle-of-repose" (which is basically the angle of a pile of soil). Basically if it fails, it's going to pull out a giant cone of dirt. the better the soil, the wider the cone. This cone of dirt is going to go as the cube of the depth, so a 6 foot auger is going to be WAY stronger than a 3 foot auger...even if the tip looks more or less the same.
The tire as a shock-absorber is pretty good redneck idea too. I suppose the disadvantage for underwater is that the soil or sand could be eroded and it might lose it's depth over time if you weren't monitoring it.
On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 06:13:55 PM PST, Dr Vince Facchiano via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
So I am not sure how best to respond but I moore my 17 Ft Montgomery Blue Jay in a freshwater MN lake each year and found a anchor system that has stood the test of some hellacious summer storms and the boat is still where I left it . Please investigate ( Quality Anchors - EZANCHOR ) https://ezanchor.ca/
| | | | | |
|
| | | | Quality Anchors - EZANCHOR
EZANCHOR, the anchor that holds through the storm. Manufactured in Stony Plain, AB. Explore installation instruc... |
|
|
I found that this system has been engineered perfectly for mooring and has far more holding strength than other options especially for the sail boats we are sailing. Its very easy to install and portable enough to sail with you too your cruse destinations . Each year I simply screw it in the rocky sand all the way down in chest high water ( comes with a main screw post with special installation tube attachments , ample chain, a buoy and part of a rubber tire which acts as shock absorber a key component in the system. )
I enjoys sailing my 2008 M17 - Blue Jay
Vincent Facchiano OD FAAO please text only - 815-218-7777Independent Primary Eye Care Optometrist www.aacoeyes.org/for-great-vision affiliated for 40 years with Lenscrafters & Pearle Vision www.RentVIP.US
Important Confidentiality Notice: This message and any attachments are confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this message or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by returning or forwarding it to the sender and deleting this copy from your system. And if you read this far, may God Bless you and the fine service you provide the world.
On Wednesday, February 21, 2024 at 07:01:48 PM CST, < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com
You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Anchor chain (John Schinnerer) 2. Re: Anchor chain (Dave Scobie) 3. Re: Anchor chain (John Schinnerer) 4. Re: Anchor chain (Dave Scobie)
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Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 15:43:25 -0800 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <4fd4dc8a-3963-4f0e-8dbf-4d28cd0a2c5b@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote: 20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
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Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 15:48:48 -0800 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <CAGjBOA4Br-OKUtMx1Uhr2a-H==H8HFXMS=EVo-L2ydPyHwhwaA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
John.
SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
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Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 16:43:41 -0800 From: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <ac341edd-07f1-435d-b48c-3adde0877ad4@eco-living.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Yep, that's what "they" say, whoever "they" are...:-)
There are other perspectives out there - as Groucho famously said, "Those are my principles! If you don't like them...I have others!"
Silliness aside, for my uses to date, it makes zero sense to wrestle with 17 ft of chain to no benefit and much extra weight and muddiness. And when I'm eventually cruising more challenging tidal waters I'll have approximately as much chain as "they" say.
Some point out that boat length per se has little to do with how the anchor, chain, rode, and lake/sea bottom actually interact. And boat length does not necessarily correlate to boat weight and/or windage (think multi-hulls; unballasted camp cruisers; expedition loaded vs. day-sailing; chunky pilot house motor-sailors vs. low-slung minimum-windage designs; etc.).
It's a bit like choosing anchor size, to me. Most manufacturer charts are based on very generic assumptions about boat size and weight correlation. Works well perhaps for medium to huge ballasted monohulls. But what if one's boat doesn't fit those standard assumptions? M17s often don't - they tend to be in one length category, but a different displacement category. We can say "when in doubt go bigger," but what about the possible downsides of trying to manage an oversized, overweight anchor on a small boat?
Just some thoughts to ponder. I'm all for reason-and-testing backed SOP, but not much for Stale Old Protocol.
cheers, John
On 2/21/24 15:48, Dave Scobie wrote: John.
SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
" On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope?
How much chain do you carry?
Thanks
Capt Jim
Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
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Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 17:01:04 -0800 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Anchor chain To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <CAGjBOA4y4QWAUoDf_vc4vVk887Vqxx5UcWqP7gDqeGgcJmqw=g@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Hi John:
"They' are professional and liveaboard boaters and cruisers (aka myself).
The reason is the greater weight and therefore better bite angle for the anchor and to keep wear on the rope to a minimum (or none). Around the Salish Sea the rocks and barnacles will quickly saw through rope.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 16:44 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Yep, that's what "they" say, whoever "they" are...:-)
There are other perspectives out there - as Groucho famously said, "Those are my principles! If you don't like them...I have others!"
Silliness aside, for my uses to date, it makes zero sense to wrestle with 17 ft of chain to no benefit and much extra weight and muddiness. And when I'm eventually cruising more challenging tidal waters I'll have approximately as much chain as "they" say.
Some point out that boat length per se has little to do with how the anchor, chain, rode, and lake/sea bottom actually interact. And boat length does not necessarily correlate to boat weight and/or windage (think multi-hulls; unballasted camp cruisers; expedition loaded vs. day-sailing; chunky pilot house motor-sailors vs. low-slung minimum-windage designs; etc.).
It's a bit like choosing anchor size, to me. Most manufacturer charts are based on very generic assumptions about boat size and weight correlation. Works well perhaps for medium to huge ballasted monohulls. But what if one's boat doesn't fit those standard assumptions? M17s often don't - they tend to be in one length category, but a different displacement category. We can say "when in doubt go bigger," but what about the possible downsides of trying to manage an oversized, overweight anchor on a small boat?
Just some thoughts to ponder. I'm all for reason-and-testing backed SOP, but not much for Stale Old Protocol.
cheers, John
On 2/21/24 15:48, Dave Scobie wrote: John.
SOP is for chain length to be at least the length of the boat.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
" On Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 15:43 John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Re chain...
My all purpose anchor is a Rocna 4, I have about 5 ft of chain on it. To date, only about 70 ft of rode on that one, as I am in lakes with no tidal action, and anchoring in shallow and sheltered waters (around 5-15 ft.).
Not fully set up yet, but for eventual harder-core situations, is a slightly heavier Mantus M2 for which I have about 15 ft of chain and much longer rode, don't recall length at the moment, it's stored for the winter. When I get to cruising tidal waters I'll also be carrying extra length of rode.
cheers, John
All the lake anchoring I've done to date doesn't need lots of chain so I am not going to wrestle with lots of chain to no purpose.
On 2/21/24 05:59, Dave Scobie wrote:
20' of chain and 200' of rope. Also have a secondary anchor with the same rode. Carry a extra 200' of rope if needed.
So yes can tie together 600' of rope.
Tide range on Salish Sea is 10-15' (usually). Even with all this rode I've only ever needed to put out 200' of rope.
Nice thing about a small boat is can anchor in shallow areas where larger boats cannot fit!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: Baba 30 #233 DEJA VU :: former owner SV SWALLOW - sailboatswallow.wordpress.com/ :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com
On Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 22:45 Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
> How are you skippers marking anchor chain/rope? > > How much chain do you carry? > > Thanks > > Capt Jim > > Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> >
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
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participants (4)
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Alex Conley -
Dr Vince Facchiano -
Lawrence Winiarski -
Rusty Knorr