Have these organized now so easy to find and send. Need to get them up on my website some day for even easier reference. This is on an M17 so might be a bit tighter for space on an M15 boom but then maybe could use smaller cleats, line, etc. also. Two pics show the outhaul rigged as in the now-gone video I mentioned last post. Bowline loop at end of line. You can just see the tip of the loop between boom and boltrope. Feed free end under & around boom, through bowline loop, through cringle, then to outhaul block. Keeps clew close to boom without any other line or hardware needed. Other pics show (may not be attached in this order): Rear of boom with outhaul routing block and first reef block with lines in place. Clamcleats forward on boom for outhaul and first and second reef. Boom from rear to clamcleats (big picture view of the setup). There's no second reef line in place in the pics but you can see the block and clamcleat for it. Clamcleats are just aft of the vang bail, you can see it forward of them in a couple of the pics. If anyone wants the full size pics for seeing more detail let me know off list. HTH, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Thanks Skipper Nice simple rigging. Capt Jim SV Pelican -----Original Message----- From: John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2021 11:33 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Subject: M_Boats: My clew reefing setup and outhaul - pictures Have these organized now so easy to find and send. Need to get them up on my website some day for even easier reference. This is on an M17 so might be a bit tighter for space on an M15 boom but then maybe could use smaller cleats, line, etc. also. Two pics show the outhaul rigged as in the now-gone video I mentioned last post. Bowline loop at end of line. You can just see the tip of the loop between boom and boltrope. Feed free end under & around boom, through bowline loop, through cringle, then to outhaul block. Keeps clew close to boom without any other line or hardware needed. Other pics show (may not be attached in this order): Rear of boom with outhaul routing block and first reef block with lines in place. Clamcleats forward on boom for outhaul and first and second reef. Boom from rear to clamcleats (big picture view of the setup). There's no second reef line in place in the pics but you can see the block and clamcleat for it. Clamcleats are just aft of the vang bail, you can see it forward of them in a couple of the pics. If anyone wants the full size pics for seeing more detail let me know off list. HTH, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Excuse my delayed comment as I have been on vacation and do not do typing on my phone. I noticed in your pictures of the loose footed main that it is attached to the boom with sail slugs. I had my sail converted a number of years ago from a bolt rope attachment to the boom to a Main that has its foot completely free of any attachment to the boom. As I understand It is attached only at the tack and gooseneck so as to be able to produce an aerodynamic shape down low on the sail Can any one speak to the benefits of each type of loose footed Main described above? George 96 M15 #602 Merry Helen II "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails" 😎😎😎 On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 1:33 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Have these organized now so easy to find and send. Need to get them up on my website some day for even easier reference.
This is on an M17 so might be a bit tighter for space on an M15 boom but then maybe could use smaller cleats, line, etc. also.
Two pics show the outhaul rigged as in the now-gone video I mentioned last post. Bowline loop at end of line. You can just see the tip of the loop between boom and boltrope. Feed free end under & around boom, through bowline loop, through cringle, then to outhaul block. Keeps clew close to boom without any other line or hardware needed.
Other pics show (may not be attached in this order):
Rear of boom with outhaul routing block and first reef block with lines in place.
Clamcleats forward on boom for outhaul and first and second reef.
Boom from rear to clamcleats (big picture view of the setup).
There's no second reef line in place in the pics but you can see the block and clamcleat for it.
Clamcleats are just aft of the vang bail, you can see it forward of them in a couple of the pics.
If anyone wants the full size pics for seeing more detail let me know off list.
HTH, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Yeah my main is not loose footed, it's slugs in the boom track. If at some point I get a new main, it will be loose footed, for better shape control. As far as the outhaul and reefing setup I think it's pretty much the same. At least on boats I've seen. I don't imagine I'd need to change my outhaul & reefing setup for a loose footed main. cheers, John On 9/21/21 3:27 PM, George Iemmolo wrote:
Excuse my delayed comment as I have been on vacation and do not do typing on my phone.
I noticed in your pictures of the loose footed main that it is attached to the boom with sail slugs. I had my sail converted a number of years ago from a bolt rope attachment to the boom to a Main that has its foot completely free of any attachment to the boom. As I understand It is attached only at the tack and gooseneck so as to be able to produce an aerodynamic shape down low on the sail
Can any one speak to the benefits of each type of loose footed Main described above?
George 96 M15 #602 Merry Helen II
"We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails" 😎😎😎
On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 1:33 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Have these organized now so easy to find and send. Need to get them up on my website some day for even easier reference.
This is on an M17 so might be a bit tighter for space on an M15 boom but then maybe could use smaller cleats, line, etc. also.
Two pics show the outhaul rigged as in the now-gone video I mentioned last post. Bowline loop at end of line. You can just see the tip of the loop between boom and boltrope. Feed free end under & around boom, through bowline loop, through cringle, then to outhaul block. Keeps clew close to boom without any other line or hardware needed.
Other pics show (may not be attached in this order):
Rear of boom with outhaul routing block and first reef block with lines in place.
Clamcleats forward on boom for outhaul and first and second reef.
Boom from rear to clamcleats (big picture view of the setup).
There's no second reef line in place in the pics but you can see the block and clamcleat for it.
Clamcleats are just aft of the vang bail, you can see it forward of them in a couple of the pics.
If anyone wants the full size pics for seeing more detail let me know off list.
HTH, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net <mailto:john@eco-living.net> - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net <http://eco-living.net> http://sociocracyconsulting.com <http://sociocracyconsulting.com>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Here's one of various concise summary articles on loose-footed mains vs. tracked. http://www.fxsails.com/article_loosefoot.php Though I would add that performance dinghies (Laser, Holder, etc.) were all using loose footed mains a decade+ before the America's Cup racing sail shift to loose foot in the 80's that this piece mentions. Also in terms of rigging for reefing, as this piece points out, with a loose footed main you can just tie the bitter end of clew reefing lines around the boom. Don't need pad-eyes. cheers, John On 9/21/21 4:45 PM, John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats wrote:
Yeah my main is not loose footed, it's slugs in the boom track.
If at some point I get a new main, it will be loose footed, for better shape control.
As far as the outhaul and reefing setup I think it's pretty much the same. At least on boats I've seen. I don't imagine I'd need to change my outhaul & reefing setup for a loose footed main.
cheers, John
On 9/21/21 3:27 PM, George Iemmolo wrote:
Excuse my delayed comment as I have been on vacation and do not do typing on my phone.
I noticed in your pictures of the loose footed main that it is attached to the boom with sail slugs. I had my sail converted a number of years ago from a bolt rope attachment to the boom to a Main that has its foot completely free of any attachment to the boom. As I understand It is attached only at the tack and gooseneck so as to be able to produce an aerodynamic shape down low on the sail
Can any one speak to the benefits of each type of loose footed Main described above?
George 96 M15 #602 Merry Helen II
"We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails" 😎😎😎
On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 1:33 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Have these organized now so easy to find and send. Need to get them up on my website some day for even easier reference.
This is on an M17 so might be a bit tighter for space on an M15 boom but then maybe could use smaller cleats, line, etc. also.
Two pics show the outhaul rigged as in the now-gone video I mentioned last post. Bowline loop at end of line. You can just see the tip of the loop between boom and boltrope. Feed free end under & around boom, through bowline loop, through cringle, then to outhaul block. Keeps clew close to boom without any other line or hardware needed.
Other pics show (may not be attached in this order):
Rear of boom with outhaul routing block and first reef block with lines in place.
Clamcleats forward on boom for outhaul and first and second reef.
Boom from rear to clamcleats (big picture view of the setup).
There's no second reef line in place in the pics but you can see the block and clamcleat for it.
Clamcleats are just aft of the vang bail, you can see it forward of them in a couple of the pics.
If anyone wants the full size pics for seeing more detail let me know off list.
HTH, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net <mailto:john@eco-living.net> - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net <http://eco-living.net> http://sociocracyconsulting.com <http://sociocracyconsulting.com>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John Thanks you for the link on the subject. Similar to ones I ran across during my investigation. I noticed that it mentioned that the reef was easier to place around the boom I have been in the habit of tying the reef lines around the bunt of the sail at it's foot rather than the boom. Can't remember where I picked that up from. Maybe because i am just lazy and I found it easier for me.😈 Anyone have thoughts on that. I am a real old dog but still open to change if it will improve my sailing. George 96 M15 #602 Merry Helen "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails" On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 7:26 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Here's one of various concise summary articles on loose-footed mains vs. tracked.
http://www.fxsails.com/article_loosefoot.php
Though I would add that performance dinghies (Laser, Holder, etc.) were all using loose footed mains a decade+ before the America's Cup racing sail shift to loose foot in the 80's that this piece mentions.
Also in terms of rigging for reefing, as this piece points out, with a loose footed main you can just tie the bitter end of clew reefing lines around the boom. Don't need pad-eyes.
cheers, John
On 9/21/21 4:45 PM, John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats wrote:
Yeah my main is not loose footed, it's slugs in the boom track.
If at some point I get a new main, it will be loose footed, for better shape control.
As far as the outhaul and reefing setup I think it's pretty much the same. At least on boats I've seen. I don't imagine I'd need to change my outhaul & reefing setup for a loose footed main.
cheers, John
On 9/21/21 3:27 PM, George Iemmolo wrote:
Excuse my delayed comment as I have been on vacation and do not do typing on my phone.
I noticed in your pictures of the loose footed main that it is attached to the boom with sail slugs. I had my sail converted a number of years ago from a bolt rope attachment to the boom to a Main that has its foot completely free of any attachment to the boom. As I understand It is attached only at the tack and gooseneck so as to be able to produce an aerodynamic shape down low on the sail
Can any one speak to the benefits of each type of loose footed Main described above?
George 96 M15 #602 Merry Helen II
"We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails" 😎😎😎
On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 1:33 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Have these organized now so easy to find and send. Need to get them up on my website some day for even easier reference.
This is on an M17 so might be a bit tighter for space on an M15 boom but then maybe could use smaller cleats, line, etc. also.
Two pics show the outhaul rigged as in the now-gone video I mentioned last post. Bowline loop at end of line. You can just see the tip of the loop between boom and boltrope. Feed free end under & around boom, through bowline loop, through cringle, then to outhaul block. Keeps clew close to boom without any other line or hardware needed.
Other pics show (may not be attached in this order):
Rear of boom with outhaul routing block and first reef block with lines in place.
Clamcleats forward on boom for outhaul and first and second reef.
Boom from rear to clamcleats (big picture view of the setup).
There's no second reef line in place in the pics but you can see the block and clamcleat for it.
Clamcleats are just aft of the vang bail, you can see it forward of them in a couple of the pics.
If anyone wants the full size pics for seeing more detail let me know off list.
HTH, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net <mailto:john@eco-living.net> - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net <http://eco-living.net> http://sociocracyconsulting.com <http://sociocracyconsulting.com>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Yeah there's lots of articles about that question! The article was talking about just the bitter end of clew reefing lines I believe - not the points in between, for the lines that just gather up the loose sail, in between the tack and clew. The bitter end of the clew reefing lines can just be tied around the boom, since no sail in the way or slugs that need to slide. Then as usual up thru the reef grommet and back down to the block on the other side. Of course one could still use a pad eye. Those intermediate lines (reef points) that just hold extra sail from flapping should always be around sail only, if possible. For loose foot or with slugs. With bolt-rope of course there's no way to tie them except around the boom. There's something about that in the reefing article I posted a while back. Reason being as I recall, those lines and points are not supposed to be and not designed to be taking any working strain - just holding the loose sail from flapping around. If tied around the boom they could end up tearing the sail, or at the least affecting the sail shape negatively by pulling against the boom. Plus if you are rushing to shake out the reef and forget to untie them...not good, but worse if they are around the boom than just around the sail! cheers, John On 9/21/21 5:53 PM, George Iemmolo wrote:
John
Thanks you for the link on the subject. Similar to ones I ran across during my investigation.
I noticed that it mentioned that the reef was easier to place around the boom I have been in the habit of tying the reef lines around the bunt of the sail at it's foot rather than the boom. Can't remember where I picked that up from. Maybe because i am just lazy and I found it easier for me.😈
Anyone have thoughts on that. I am a real old dog but still open to change if it will improve my sailing. George 96 M15 #602 Merry Helen
"We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 7:26 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Here's one of various concise summary articles on loose-footed mains vs. tracked.
http://www.fxsails.com/article_loosefoot.php <http://www.fxsails.com/article_loosefoot.php>
Though I would add that performance dinghies (Laser, Holder, etc.) were all using loose footed mains a decade+ before the America's Cup racing sail shift to loose foot in the 80's that this piece mentions.
Also in terms of rigging for reefing, as this piece points out, with a loose footed main you can just tie the bitter end of clew reefing lines around the boom. Don't need pad-eyes.
cheers, John
On 9/21/21 4:45 PM, John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats wrote: > Yeah my main is not loose footed, it's slugs in the boom track. > > If at some point I get a new main, it will be loose footed, for better > shape control. > > As far as the outhaul and reefing setup I think it's pretty much the > same. At least on boats I've seen. I don't imagine I'd need to change my > outhaul & reefing setup for a loose footed main. > > cheers, > John > > On 9/21/21 3:27 PM, George Iemmolo wrote: >> Excuse my delayed comment as I have been on vacation and do not do >> typing on my phone. >> >> I noticed in your pictures of the loose footed main that it is >> attached to the boom with sail slugs. I had my sail converted a number >> of years ago from a bolt rope attachment to the boom to a Main that >> has its foot completely free of any attachment to the boom. As I >> understand It is attached only at the tack and gooseneck so as to be >> able to produce an aerodynamic shape down low on the sail >> >> Can any one speak to the benefits of each type of loose footed Main >> described above? >> >> George >> 96 M15 #602 >> Merry Helen II >> >> "We Can Not Control the Wind >> But We Can Adjust Our Sails" 😎😎😎 >> >> >> On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 1:33 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats >> <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> >> <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>>> wrote: >> >> Have these organized now so easy to find and send. Need to get >> them up >> on my website some day for even easier reference. >> >> This is on an M17 so might be a bit tighter for space on an M15 boom >> but >> then maybe could use smaller cleats, line, etc. also. >> >> Two pics show the outhaul rigged as in the now-gone video I mentioned >> last post. >> Bowline loop at end of line. You can just see the tip of the loop >> between boom and boltrope. Feed free end under & around boom, through >> bowline loop, through cringle, then to outhaul block. Keeps clew >> close >> to boom without any other line or hardware needed. >> >> Other pics show (may not be attached in this order): >> >> Rear of boom with outhaul routing block and first reef block with >> lines >> in place. >> >> Clamcleats forward on boom for outhaul and first and second reef. >> >> Boom from rear to clamcleats (big picture view of the setup). >> >> There's no second reef line in place in the pics but you can see the >> block and clamcleat for it. >> >> Clamcleats are just aft of the vang bail, you can see it forward of >> them >> in a couple of the pics. >> >> If anyone wants the full size pics for seeing more detail let me know >> off list. >> >> HTH, >> John >> >> >> >> -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >> -------------------------------------------- >> - Eco-Living - >> Whole Systems Design Services >> People - Place - Learning - Integration >> john@eco-living.net <mailto:john@eco-living.net> <mailto:john@eco-living.net <mailto:john@eco-living.net>> - 510.982.1334 >> http://eco-living.net <http://eco-living.net> <http://eco-living.net <http://eco-living.net>> >> http://sociocracyconsulting.com <http://sociocracyconsulting.com> <http://sociocracyconsulting.com <http://sociocracyconsulting.com>> >> >
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net <mailto:john@eco-living.net> - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net <http://eco-living.net> http://sociocracyconsulting.com <http://sociocracyconsulting.com>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John Could you not just remove the slugs. it appears that your sail would then met the requirements of a full loose footed Main. Others on the list are better qualified to answer that question. I was just going by the looks of my Main and yours. Might be worth a try. You can always reattach the slugs if it doesn't work out. I had my Main converted this season to a full batten Main but due to circumstances I did not sail. I am looking forward to next season to try it out (Northwest INdiana, slip on inland lake). It will be my last season as my plan always has been to swallow the anchor at 90. I have proposed to my middle daughter that the boat is available to her and her family. They retired to Virginia to the mouth of the Rappahannock River @ Windmill Point, across from Deltaville, VA . I just spent 2 weeks at her place it was great and the chances of adventure are multiplied as they have access to the River and Chesapeake Bay from their property. Of course I would have to go down and help with the rigging and shake down cruise on new waters. 🤐☺😎😀 George 96 M15 #602 Mery Helen ll "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails" On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 6:46 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Yeah my main is not loose footed, it's slugs in the boom track.
If at some point I get a new main, it will be loose footed, for better shape control.
As far as the outhaul and reefing setup I think it's pretty much the same. At least on boats I've seen. I don't imagine I'd need to change my outhaul & reefing setup for a loose footed main.
cheers, John
On 9/21/21 3:27 PM, George Iemmolo wrote:
Excuse my delayed comment as I have been on vacation and do not do typing on my phone.
I noticed in your pictures of the loose footed main that it is attached to the boom with sail slugs. I had my sail converted a number of years ago from a bolt rope attachment to the boom to a Main that has its foot completely free of any attachment to the boom. As I understand It is attached only at the tack and gooseneck so as to be able to produce an aerodynamic shape down low on the sail
Can any one speak to the benefits of each type of loose footed Main described above?
George 96 M15 #602 Merry Helen II
"We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails" 😎😎😎
On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 1:33 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Have these organized now so easy to find and send. Need to get them up on my website some day for even easier reference.
This is on an M17 so might be a bit tighter for space on an M15 boom but then maybe could use smaller cleats, line, etc. also.
Two pics show the outhaul rigged as in the now-gone video I mentioned last post. Bowline loop at end of line. You can just see the tip of the loop between boom and boltrope. Feed free end under & around boom, through bowline loop, through cringle, then to outhaul block. Keeps clew close to boom without any other line or hardware needed.
Other pics show (may not be attached in this order):
Rear of boom with outhaul routing block and first reef block with lines in place.
Clamcleats forward on boom for outhaul and first and second reef.
Boom from rear to clamcleats (big picture view of the setup).
There's no second reef line in place in the pics but you can see the block and clamcleat for it.
Clamcleats are just aft of the vang bail, you can see it forward of them in a couple of the pics.
If anyone wants the full size pics for seeing more detail let me know off list.
HTH, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net <mailto:john@eco-living.net> - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net <http://eco-living.net> http://sociocracyconsulting.com <http://sociocracyconsulting.com>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Good question George, Normally as I have understood it, a sail is cut differently for loose vs. attached foot. The article I just posted mentions one such difference, the 'shelf' sometimes built into an attached foot, that can be reduced (high wind) or increased (light wind) by outhaul tension. I am pretty sure I see this in the cut of my current attached foot main. There is definitely a 'belly' that fills out at the bottom (especially the bottom 12-18 inches) in lighter winds with the outhaul (and mainsheet) less taut. Some of that may be from aging and stretching but I don't think that can account for all the fullness I'm seeing. Were my sail's foot not attached via the slugs, the shape it makes looks like it would become a baggy flap of sail. I supposed I could try it to be sure, but it really doesn't look like it would shape right. Also my sail has what someone here identified as probably a "flattening reef" - just takes out the bottom 18" or so of the main - not much area reduction but it takes that fuller 'belly' part at the bottom out of play, making the bottom of the main much flatter. Anyhow, it looks different than shapes of loose foot cut sails I've seen. My experience with loose foot sails comes from performance dinghies (Laser and Holder Hawk/Hobie One mostly). To get more 'belly' in light air the outhaul and/or downhaul are slacked off, and tightened to flatten in higher winds. There's a lot more range of 'belly' control from those two lines than I have seen with an attached foot main - without reefing (a good thing since there is no reefing on those dinghies, best you can do is flatten the sail and hang on tight...!). I'd be curious to hear how your full batten main works out, please let us know once you get a chance to try it. Anyone else here have that modification? cheers, John On 9/21/21 5:31 PM, George Iemmolo wrote:
John
Could you not just remove the slugs. it appears that your sail would then met the requirements of a full loose footed Main. Others on the list are better qualified to answer that question. I was just going by the looks of my Main and yours. Might be worth a try. You can always reattach the slugs if it doesn't work out.
I had my Main converted this season to a full batten Main but due to circumstances I did not sail. I am looking forward to next season to try it out (Northwest INdiana, slip on inland lake). It will be my last season as my plan always has been to swallow the anchor at 90. I have proposed to my middle daughter that the boat is available to her and her family. They retired to Virginia to the mouth of the Rappahannock River @ Windmill Point, across from Deltaville, VA . I just spent 2 weeks at her place it was great and the chances of adventure are multiplied as they have access to the River and Chesapeake Bay from their property. Of course I would have to go down and help with the rigging and shake down cruise on new waters. 🤐☺😎😀
George 96 M15 #602 Mery Helen ll
"We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails"
On Tue, Sep 21, 2021 at 6:46 PM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Yeah my main is not loose footed, it's slugs in the boom track.
If at some point I get a new main, it will be loose footed, for better shape control.
As far as the outhaul and reefing setup I think it's pretty much the same. At least on boats I've seen. I don't imagine I'd need to change my outhaul & reefing setup for a loose footed main.
cheers, John
On 9/21/21 3:27 PM, George Iemmolo wrote: > Excuse my delayed comment as I have been on vacation and do not do > typing on my phone. > > I noticed in your pictures of the loose footed main that it is attached > to the boom with sail slugs. I had my sail converted a number of years > ago from a bolt rope attachment to the boom to a Main that has its foot > completely free of any attachment to the boom. As I understand It is > attached only at the tack and gooseneck so as to be able to produce an > aerodynamic shape down low on the sail > > Can any one speak to the benefits of each type of loose footed Main > described above? > > George > 96 M15 #602 > Merry Helen II > > "We Can Not Control the Wind > But We Can Adjust Our Sails" 😎😎😎 > > > On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 1:33 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats > <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> > <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>>> wrote: > > Have these organized now so easy to find and send. Need to get them up > on my website some day for even easier reference. > > This is on an M17 so might be a bit tighter for space on an M15 boom > but > then maybe could use smaller cleats, line, etc. also. > > Two pics show the outhaul rigged as in the now-gone video I mentioned > last post. > Bowline loop at end of line. You can just see the tip of the loop > between boom and boltrope. Feed free end under & around boom, through > bowline loop, through cringle, then to outhaul block. Keeps clew close > to boom without any other line or hardware needed. > > Other pics show (may not be attached in this order): > > Rear of boom with outhaul routing block and first reef block with lines > in place. > > Clamcleats forward on boom for outhaul and first and second reef. > > Boom from rear to clamcleats (big picture view of the setup). > > There's no second reef line in place in the pics but you can see the > block and clamcleat for it. > > Clamcleats are just aft of the vang bail, you can see it forward of > them > in a couple of the pics. > > If anyone wants the full size pics for seeing more detail let me know > off list. > > HTH, > John > > > > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john@eco-living.net <mailto:john@eco-living.net> <mailto:john@eco-living.net <mailto:john@eco-living.net>> - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net <http://eco-living.net> <http://eco-living.net <http://eco-living.net>> > http://sociocracyconsulting.com <http://sociocracyconsulting.com> <http://sociocracyconsulting.com <http://sociocracyconsulting.com>> >
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net <mailto:john@eco-living.net> - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net <http://eco-living.net> http://sociocracyconsulting.com <http://sociocracyconsulting.com>
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Even a loose footed main needs to be attached to the boom at the clew. The outhaul will allow fore and aft adjustment which will control sail shape but there also should be something to hold the clew down to keep it from "skying." On my new EP main this is accomplished with one heavy duty slug right at the clew. Some boats use several loose wraps of Velcro through the clew grommet and around the boom. Others use a loop of line. Either way it should be loose enough to allow the clew to move fore and aft with outhaul adjustment. The mainsail on my previous boat was not loose footed. It had a full length bolt rope along the foot. The sail was designed with a "shelf foot" which accomplishes nearly the same thing as a loose foot: it allows a very full shape at the bottom of the sail. The flattening reef was used to remove this fullness when desired. I think the advantage of this system is that the shelf prevents air from "escaping" out the bottom, between the foot and the boom. The disadvantage being the more limited adjustment and the extra friction of the bolt rope. Both mainsail foot/boom attachment methods are viable, IMHO. Henry M17 Monita On Tue, Sep 21, 2021, 5:28 PM George Iemmolo <griemmolo2@gmail.com> wrote:
Excuse my delayed comment as I have been on vacation and do not do typing on my phone.
I noticed in your pictures of the loose footed main that it is attached to the boom with sail slugs. I had my sail converted a number of years ago from a bolt rope attachment to the boom to a Main that has its foot completely free of any attachment to the boom. As I understand It is attached only at the tack and gooseneck so as to be able to produce an aerodynamic shape down low on the sail
Can any one speak to the benefits of each type of loose footed Main described above?
George 96 M15 #602 Merry Helen II
"We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails" 😎😎😎
On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 1:33 AM John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Have these organized now so easy to find and send. Need to get them up on my website some day for even easier reference.
This is on an M17 so might be a bit tighter for space on an M15 boom but then maybe could use smaller cleats, line, etc. also.
Two pics show the outhaul rigged as in the now-gone video I mentioned last post. Bowline loop at end of line. You can just see the tip of the loop between boom and boltrope. Feed free end under & around boom, through bowline loop, through cringle, then to outhaul block. Keeps clew close to boom without any other line or hardware needed.
Other pics show (may not be attached in this order):
Rear of boom with outhaul routing block and first reef block with lines in place.
Clamcleats forward on boom for outhaul and first and second reef.
Boom from rear to clamcleats (big picture view of the setup).
There's no second reef line in place in the pics but you can see the block and clamcleat for it.
Clamcleats are just aft of the vang bail, you can see it forward of them in a couple of the pics.
If anyone wants the full size pics for seeing more detail let me know off list.
HTH, John
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
On 9/21/21 8:31 PM, Henry Rodriguez wrote:
Even a loose footed main needs to be attached to the boom at the clew. The outhaul will allow fore and aft adjustment which will control sail shape but there also should be something to hold the clew down to keep it from "skying." On my new EP main this is accomplished with one heavy duty slug right at the clew. Some boats use several loose wraps of Velcro through the clew grommet and around the boom. Others use a loop of line. Either way it should be loose enough to allow the clew to move fore and aft with outhaul adjustment.
Yes - one way is as in the pics I posted, description below.
Two pics show the outhaul rigged as in the now-gone video I mentioned last post. Bowline loop at end of line. You can just see the tip of the loop between boom and boltrope. Feed free end under & around boom, through bowline loop, through cringle, then to outhaul block. Keeps clew close to boom without any other line or hardware needed.
cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (4)
-
George Iemmolo -
Henry Rodriguez -
Jim Sadler -
John Schinnerer