Henry, The Yamaha 4hp is a 4 stroke, so, vastly different from your Mariner. My 1976 M17 came off Lake Superior and had a Honda BF100 10hp 4 stroke on her! Talk about overkill. I purchased a new Yamaha 4hp 20" model in 2001. It is a wonderful outboard and fit the M17 perfectly. I did use an motor mount to get the engine completely out of the water while sailing. I imagine that outboard comes up for sale on the used market occasionally. Before the Yamaha I had an older Johnson 6hp 2 stroke, circa 1965 or so. Frustrating little devil. It worked, but had this nasty habit of killing and not restarting at the most inopportune times, like pulling into a crowded marina. The BF100 Honda I used on my M23 for years, still have it and plan on mounting it on a fishing boat I'll be restoring. Mr. Bones Mpls ____________________________________________________________ Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_tagl... People Are Furious With NBC Over Trump Town Hall http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5f88477db8132477d5049st03vuc1 Dr. Fauci Broaches the Subject on Everyone's Mind http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5f88477dd73bf477d5049st03vuc2 Cops: Girl, 8, Died After Being Forced to Jump on Trampoline http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5f88477e2cdc477d5049st03vuc3
Thanks Mr. Bones, I thought the Yamaha Dave was talking about was the older 2-stroke. Dave? I had read somewhere that Jerry originally intended the M17 notch for the then current Evinrude 4hp. I watched Craigslist for several years and finally found an older long shaft 4 hp Evinrude Deluxe (FNR) at a reasonable price. I am a bit disappointed in that motor as far as the M17 is concerned. It is heavier than the Mariner (54lb vs 47lb) and the power head is bigger, intruding into the cockpit and creating more interference with the tiller. It also has way less thrust in reverse, even after replacing the stock prop with a larger diameter/lower pitch. The one big advantage it has is that it is quieter and has far less vibration with the two cylinders. Nonetheless I went back to using the Mariner and have the Evinrude in storage. Henry On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 8:25 AM bownez@Juno.com <bownez@juno.com> wrote:
Henry,
The Yamaha 4hp is a 4 stroke, so, vastly different from your Mariner. My 1976 M17 came off Lake Superior and had a Honda BF100 10hp 4 stroke on her! Talk about overkill. I purchased a new Yamaha 4hp 20" model in 2001. It is a wonderful outboard and fit the M17 perfectly. I did use an motor mount to get the engine completely out of the water while sailing. I imagine that outboard comes up for sale on the used market occasionally. Before the Yamaha I had an older Johnson 6hp 2 stroke, circa 1965 or so. Frustrating little devil. It worked, but had this nasty habit of killing and not restarting at the most inopportune times, like pulling into a crowded marina. The BF100 Honda I used on my M23 for years, still have it and plan on mounting it on a fishing boat I'll be restoring.
Mr. Bones Mpls ____________________________________________________________ Sponsored by https://www.newser.com/?utm_source=part&utm_medium=uol&utm_campaign=rss_tagl...
People Are Furious With NBC Over Trump Town Hall http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5f88477db8132477d5049st03vuc1 Dr. Fauci Broaches the Subject on Everyone's Mind http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5f88477dd73bf477d5049st03vuc2 Cops: Girl, 8, Died After Being Forced to Jump on Trampoline http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5f88477e2cdc477d5049st03vuc3
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile
Henry: The Yamaha I speak was made, likely, '90s through late '00s. A true 4HP powerhead four cycle. Yamaha, like all other outboard companies, now build only a 6HP powerhead and then bolt in a smaller carb and fewer bells and whistles for the 4 and/or 5 HP models. I almost bought a Yamaha 4HP ~'07. Thought I had a deal worked out with a distributor and when I arrived they changed my trade-in value down by 70% and then dickered me on the new motor cost. I walked away and never returned (they were the service company for Suzuki so I found a different place for motor work). I'm still a bit sore about it! Classic bottom feeder bait and switch behavior. It is important to realize that the Jerry didn't intend for the outboards in the first gen M17s transom cutouts to be used to stering. That's what the rudder is for! ;-) The Suzuki on M17 SWEET PEA didn't have a working friction lock to keep the motor from turning (the engine tork would make motor turn). So the prior owner, and I, tied lines to cleats on the transom from the motor's carry handle to keep it pointing straight. Therefore used rudder to steer forward and back. It wasn't a challenge to me as I sailed for years on sailboats with inboards and the family boat was a fat Richards design Cheoy Lee 32 that hated backing - M17 in comparison was simple. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 9:11 AM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
...
I thought the Yamaha Dave was talking about was the older 2-stroke. Dave?
I had read somewhere that Jerry originally intended the M17 notch for the then current Evinrude 4hp. ...
Henry
I called Garhauer and ordered the OB-125 mount. Got it yesterday. I can see why it costs so much compared to other brackets from marine suppliers. It is very well made and very nicely finished. Definitely a quality product. But, man, was I surprised when I took it out of the box. It is so much bigger and heavier than I expected it to be. (I'm not in a marina and don't get to see other boats up close very often.) It weighs 18.5 lb on my bathroom scale! That's 1/3 the weight of any motor I would ever put on that boat. My current 5hp Mariner 2-stroke only weighs 47 lb. It just seems like way overkill for such a small motor on a small boat. I'm tempted to return it and get a smaller, lighter mount. And yet I understand that this is the same bracket that was shipped on new Sages and Montgomerys. Help me wrap my head around this, please. Henry Monita
Well, my two cents is, this does seem like overkill. The mount that came with my M17 was dealing with that oversize Tohatsu 6hp SailPro that came with it, at ~63 lbs or so, for the previous owners (and me a couple times) and is not so heavy or beefy as the Garhauer looks. Mine is fabricated of flat stainless stock, 4-link geometry (2 links each side, like your pic except flat arms not tubular). Stainless bolts with spacers for the pivot rods. Old enough that the motor mount plate is super-thick plywood not plastic. Four positions it can be adjusted to. Don't have a pic handy unfortunately... I have had it off the transom a few times. Didn't weigh it but I would estimate it was 8-10 lbs at most. cheers, John On 10/25/20 9:30 PM, Henry Rodriguez wrote:
I called Garhauer and ordered the OB-125 mount. Got it yesterday. I can see why it costs so much compared to other brackets from marine suppliers. It is very well made and very nicely finished. Definitely a quality product.
But, man, was I surprised when I took it out of the box. It is so much bigger and heavier than I expected it to be. (I'm not in a marina and don't get to see other boats up close very often.) It weighs 18.5 lb on my bathroom scale! That's 1/3 the weight of any motor I would ever put on that boat. My current 5hp Mariner 2-stroke only weighs 47 lb.
It just seems like way overkill for such a small motor on a small boat. I'm tempted to return it and get a smaller, lighter mount. And yet I understand that this is the same bracket that was shipped on new Sages and Montgomerys. Help me wrap my head around this, please.
Henry Monita
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Here's a crop from a crappy photo with flare on the lens and washed out...best I could find of my motor mount, gives the idea of size relative to transom cutout etc. at least. From first season I had it, so still has the honkin' big Tohatsu 6hp on it. HTH, John On 10/25/20 10:13 PM, John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats wrote:
Well, my two cents is, this does seem like overkill.
The mount that came with my M17 was dealing with that oversize Tohatsu 6hp SailPro that came with it, at ~63 lbs or so, for the previous owners (and me a couple times) and is not so heavy or beefy as the Garhauer looks.
Mine is fabricated of flat stainless stock, 4-link geometry (2 links each side, like your pic except flat arms not tubular). Stainless bolts with spacers for the pivot rods. Old enough that the motor mount plate is super-thick plywood not plastic. Four positions it can be adjusted to.
Don't have a pic handy unfortunately...
I have had it off the transom a few times. Didn't weigh it but I would estimate it was 8-10 lbs at most.
cheers, John
On 10/25/20 9:30 PM, Henry Rodriguez wrote:
I called Garhauer and ordered the OB-125 mount. Got it yesterday. I can see why it costs so much compared to other brackets from marine suppliers. It is very well made and very nicely finished. Definitely a quality product.
But, man, was I surprised when I took it out of the box. It is so much bigger and heavier than I expected it to be. (I'm not in a marina and don't get to see other boats up close very often.) It weighs 18.5 lb on my bathroom scale! That's 1/3 the weight of any motor I would ever put on that boat. My current 5hp Mariner 2-stroke only weighs 47 lb.
It just seems like way overkill for such a small motor on a small boat. I'm tempted to return it and get a smaller, lighter mount. And yet I understand that this is the same bracket that was shipped on new Sages and Montgomerys. Help me wrap my head around this, please.
Henry Monita
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I have that mount on my 2005 M 17 and it works great. I bought the M 17 two years ago and it was on the boat. Previous owner had a Honda 2.3 on it. I replaced it with a new Honda 4 hp at about 60 lbs. Charlie Sent from my iPad
On Oct 26, 2020, at 1:14 AM, John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Well, my two cents is, this does seem like overkill.
The mount that came with my M17 was dealing with that oversize Tohatsu 6hp SailPro that came with it, at ~63 lbs or so, for the previous owners (and me a couple times) and is not so heavy or beefy as the Garhauer looks.
Mine is fabricated of flat stainless stock, 4-link geometry (2 links each side, like your pic except flat arms not tubular). Stainless bolts with spacers for the pivot rods. Old enough that the motor mount plate is super-thick plywood not plastic. Four positions it can be adjusted to.
Don't have a pic handy unfortunately...
I have had it off the transom a few times. Didn't weigh it but I would estimate it was 8-10 lbs at most.
cheers, John
On 10/25/20 9:30 PM, Henry Rodriguez wrote: I called Garhauer and ordered the OB-125 mount. Got it yesterday. I can see why it costs so much compared to other brackets from marine suppliers. It is very well made and very nicely finished. Definitely a quality product. But, man, was I surprised when I took it out of the box. It is so much bigger and heavier than I expected it to be. (I'm not in a marina and don't get to see other boats up close very often.) It weighs 18.5 lb on my bathroom scale! That's 1/3 the weight of any motor I would ever put on that boat. My current 5hp Mariner 2-stroke only weighs 47 lb. It just seems like way overkill for such a small motor on a small boat. I'm tempted to return it and get a smaller, lighter mount. And yet I understand that this is the same bracket that was shipped on new Sages and Montgomerys. Help me wrap my head around this, please. Henry Monita
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Harry: If you want a mount this is the one you want. It is quality, it works and it reliable. I investigated many mounts before selecting the OB125 for the Sages. It is hands down the only one that reliably worked. Other mounts were flimsy and most were difficult to operate (meaning it was hard to impossible to get motor up/down - especially as they age). Some of the worse are made by Garelick. IMO the 1st gen M17s should use the motor in the cutout. Steer using the rudder. I helmed my M17 using only the rudder because the motor couldn't be turned (failure in the friction fitting) and didn't have problems (may because I sailed so long on a inboard powered sailboat growing up my default is to helm the boat with the rudder not the motor). :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 9:32 PM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
I called Garhauer and ordered the OB-125 mount. Got it yesterday. I can see why it costs so much compared to other brackets from marine suppliers. It is very well made and very nicely finished. Definitely a quality product.
But, man, was I surprised when I took it out of the box. It is so much bigger and heavier than I expected it to be. (I'm not in a marina and don't get to see other boats up close very often.) It weighs 18.5 lb on my bathroom scale! That's 1/3 the weight of any motor I would ever put on that boat. My current 5hp Mariner 2-stroke only weighs 47 lb.
It just seems like way overkill for such a small motor on a small boat. I'm tempted to return it and get a smaller, lighter mount. And yet I understand that this is the same bracket that was shipped on new Sages and Montgomerys. Help me wrap my head around this, please.
Henry Monita
Thanks for the input. That’s good to know. The primary reason I am looking to add an external mount is to get the motor a little lower in the water. Both my long shaft (20”) Mariner and Evinrude motors cavitate if I step out of the cockpit. They really get loud if I go up on the foredeck. I’m afraid the cooling intake might be coming out of the water. I guess that’s Monita’s way of saying I need to lose weight. Also, with the motor tilted up in the notch I can’t put the tiller hard over when approaching my mooring, it hits the motor head. That means I pretty much always have to plan my approach to end up with a hard turn to port no matter which way the wind is blowing. Since I only need to lower the outboard by about 5” or so, what do you think of a fixed external mount? The motor tilts up more than far enough as it sits now in the notch. I’m guessing it would still clear the water even if it was 5” lower, but I am not sure. Henry Monita On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 10:39 AM Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Harry:
If you want a mount this is the one you want. It is quality, it works and it reliable.
I investigated many mounts before selecting the OB125 for the Sages. It is hands down the only one that reliably worked. Other mounts were flimsy and most were difficult to operate (meaning it was hard to impossible to get motor up/down - especially as they age). Some of the worse are made by Garelick.
IMO the 1st gen M17s should use the motor in the cutout. Steer using the rudder. I helmed my M17 using only the rudder because the motor couldn't be turned (failure in the friction fitting) and didn't have problems (may because I sailed so long on a inboard powered sailboat growing up my default is to helm the boat with the rudder not the motor).
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 9:32 PM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
I called Garhauer and ordered the OB-125 mount. Got it yesterday. I can see why it costs so much compared to other brackets from marine suppliers. It is very well made and very nicely finished. Definitely a quality product.
But, man, was I surprised when I took it out of the box. It is so much bigger and heavier than I expected it to be. (I'm not in a marina and don't get to see other boats up close very often.) It weighs 18.5 lb on my bathroom scale! That's 1/3 the weight of any motor I would ever put on that boat. My current 5hp Mariner 2-stroke only weighs 47 lb.
It just seems like way overkill for such a small motor on a small boat. I'm tempted to return it and get a smaller, lighter mount. And yet I understand that this is the same bracket that was shipped on new Sages and Montgomerys. Help me wrap my head around this, please.
Henry Monita
-- Sent from Gmail Mobile
One issue with motor in transom cutout is that you have to have reverse gear on the motor, or you can only go forward. There's not room to swivel the motor 180 degrees, unless maybe for some old small powerhead 2-strokes? So for modern motors you will have at least a 60-lb motor (4hp and up to get reverse gear, see recent thread...). cheers, John On 10/26/20 8:38 AM, Dave Scobie wrote:
Harry:
If you want a mount this is the one you want. It is quality, it works and it reliable.
I investigated many mounts before selecting the OB125 for the Sages. It is hands down the only one that reliably worked. Other mounts were flimsy and most were difficult to operate (meaning it was hard to impossible to get motor up/down - especially as they age). Some of the worse are made by Garelick.
IMO the 1st gen M17s should use the motor in the cutout. Steer using the rudder. I helmed my M17 using only the rudder because the motor couldn't be turned (failure in the friction fitting) and didn't have problems (may because I sailed so long on a inboard powered sailboat growing up my default is to helm the boat with the rudder not the motor).
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Sun, Oct 25, 2020, 9:32 PM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
I called Garhauer and ordered the OB-125 mount. Got it yesterday. I can see why it costs so much compared to other brackets from marine suppliers. It is very well made and very nicely finished. Definitely a quality product.
But, man, was I surprised when I took it out of the box. It is so much bigger and heavier than I expected it to be. (I'm not in a marina and don't get to see other boats up close very often.) It weighs 18.5 lb on my bathroom scale! That's 1/3 the weight of any motor I would ever put on that boat. My current 5hp Mariner 2-stroke only weighs 47 lb.
It just seems like way overkill for such a small motor on a small boat. I'm tempted to return it and get a smaller, lighter mount. And yet I understand that this is the same bracket that was shipped on new Sages and Montgomerys. Help me wrap my head around this, please.
Henry Monita
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Henry, I have that same model mount on my 1988 M17 (although mine looks slightly different). I've been using it with a Yamaha 4 hp 4-cycle for 15 years. Up until this year it was with the lighter Yamaha 4 hp 4-cycle and the two springs balanced the motor weight perfectly. This summer I purchased a new (heavier) Yamaha 4 hp 4-cycle and the 2 springs counterbalance is still good, but needs a little help getting the motor up into the upper-locked position. Great mount and would recommend. Randy Graves M17 #410 On Sun, Oct 25, 2020 at 9:32 PM Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
I called Garhauer and ordered the OB-125 mount. Got it yesterday. I can see why it costs so much compared to other brackets from marine suppliers. It is very well made and very nicely finished. Definitely a quality product.
But, man, was I surprised when I took it out of the box. It is so much bigger and heavier than I expected it to be. (I'm not in a marina and don't get to see other boats up close very often.) It weighs 18.5 lb on my bathroom scale! That's 1/3 the weight of any motor I would ever put on that boat. My current 5hp Mariner 2-stroke only weighs 47 lb.
It just seems like way overkill for such a small motor on a small boat. I'm tempted to return it and get a smaller, lighter mount. And yet I understand that this is the same bracket that was shipped on new Sages and Montgomerys. Help me wrap my head around this, please.
Henry Monita
participants (6)
-
bownez＠juno.com -
Charles Adams -
Dave Scobie -
Henry Rodriguez -
John Schinnerer -
Randy Graves