In a message dated 8/4/2004 3:45:55 PM Central Standard Time, Saltm17@aol.com writes: Bill, I pull my M17 with a long bed,1984 F150, 300 cubic inch, 6 cylinder engine, 2 wheel drive with a 4 speed manual transmission. I've launched and retrieved my sailboat on many ramps and haven't ever had a problem with traction. However, first gear is a real "granny" and it helps a lot on steep ramps. John Edwards John, we had a 1980 F150 with the big six for many years. What an engine. Bombproof, practically unstallable, and loads of torque down low where you really need it. Its only rival on our farm was an old Chevy C20 dump truck with a 307 and truly low gearing. As I recall, one shifted into third at about 10 mph.... Cheers Steve Tyree, P-15