Wow, thanks. Totally awesome tips; I’ll start some modifications now Pete Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 9, 2019, at 14:18, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Pete,
A few other random thoughts:
The main thing that you have to do is to make certain that in the event of a knock-down, no water can get into your M15
This means, sail locker lids need closed cell foam gasketing between the locker lid, and the sealing surface.
The next thing that is a "must-have" is some form of locking mechanism to keep the sail locker lids closed, so that in the event of a knock-down sail locker lids can't fly open, ejecting boat equipment, and allowing water inside the boat. If water can't get inside, a boat keeps floating even if it is up-side-down.
The most water that can get inside is from the vent slots in the top companionway board.
I used small lock hasps, and fitted them so that when they were closed I had to exert force to pull them open, and lift the sail locker lid.
Just remember that the pint bottle the gallon jug, or the 55 gallon drum will all float indefinitely as long as the cap is on the container; no matter what the sea state.
For pleasant living on board, go to the M files and look for Charlie Matthews "Tool Box galley". Everything you need for cooking and living on board in a 19" tool box.
I needed a holder for 7 X 50 binoculars / Grundig radio / marine radio /and beverage. I bought the largest binocular holder from WEST, and then modified it to hold everything in the space of the lowest companionway hatch board.
To cook you need a galley working area. I took the Porta-Pottie cover; mounted two cleats on the bottom so that it fitted between the cockpit seats at the aft end of the cockpit. With the cleats I couldn't move sideways.
That's fine for good weather but there are times when you need a "tent" over your open air galley. A rain soaked steak with a butter-water sauce is not very appetizing. You need rain protection.
I made a BIMINI that covered the whole cockpit area and extended over the companionway hatch so that it could be kept open in the rain.
If your M15 has a port sail locker with the shallow tray you have to gain access to that whole volume of storage space that is below.
I cut a saw kerf all around the flat area that the sail locker lid rests on; removed the shallow tray; epoxied supports; added rope handles to the flat tray had supports. Now I had the best of both worlds. The shallow tray for car keys / boat lock keys / screwdriver / pliers / small lines; and by lifting it out, I now had access to the whole volume for storing the BIMINI top / cockpit cushions / PDFs / emergency paddle, and the boom with rolled up mainsail when trailering.
You also need a minimum of two anchors with l o n g anchor rodes. Safety is being able to anchor in 20 feet of water depth and have enough rode for a 10:1 rode length / water depth ratio. You have to have at least two anchors. If one is caught under a rock and you can get it loose, .... now what? If the weather deteriorates and you are anchored in a cove, two anchors out let you sleep much better.
From my big boat experience, I always carried three; even on our M15. Different bottoms require different anchor types to hold properly.
If you haven't got a dinghy, that is also a necessity, unless you can walk on water.
I built and enjoyed using a Bolger NYMPH. Tows easily behind the M15, and is light enough for easy car topping on a roof rack. Is big enough for two people and a lot of supplies; food / fuel / beer, and is great fun to row when there is no wind.
Happy sailing,
Connie
On 3/9/2019 11:47 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote:
Thanks for sharing all your experiences. I’ve sailed from Anacortes to circumnavigate the SJs and into Canada with my M15 and the group with no problems. The ferry idea is a good one. To avoid the big crossing to Victoria from Port Townsend. Lots of options, again thanks Pete M15 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 9, 2019, at 09:33, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Pete,
You are asking a sailor's perennial question; "is bigger better? safer? for what I want to do,and where I want to sail?
Another foot of length, or even 6 " of length really does nothing for you.
The main advantage of "bigger" is more interior volume for storing food, water and equipment; and room for a larger number of people that can go on the trip.
We owned a 29' Tripp-Lentsch for 26 years. I had been working in Europe for United Aircraft Corp. so had the opportunity to sail in the Baltic, sail our 29'er down the English Channel; crossed the Adriatic to Yugoslavia several times; sail in the Med on friend's boats (Elba; Corsica; Italian coast).
New top management at United fired all of us at the International Marketing Division in '74. Now what?
Our children were 15 and 16 years old, and good sailors. I had obtained my German Captain's License, and was a celestial navigator.
The Company was going to pay me 6 months salary. The time of the year (June) was excellent for our thinking - truck our boat to Italy, sail from Italy to the Greek islands (with American two week vacations that was an impossibility while I was working - but now it was possible. Get out of the Med by mid to late October and head for the Canary Islands; wait there till the winter trade winds set in and then sail across to Barbados on a broad reach..... It would have been a great trip.
However, my friends at the German aircraft engine company in Munich offered me a job, but wanted me on the job in Connecticut ASAP. There went our Atlantic crossing....
Years later on a business trip to Munich I picked up a German yachting magazine and during dinner read an ad for the big brother of our T-L29, a Northeast 38. (another Bill Tripp design)
We bought it, fully equipped. Picked it up the following spring in Hamburg, and then sailed the Danish islands for 5 weeks to see what sort of problems I had bought, and get them fixed.
The following spring, our plan was to pick up the newly Algripped, and repaired boat, sail to the Greek island and then back to the USA.
Back in Connecticut, sailing our T-L29 the rest of the season we examined our navels, and came to the conclusion; bigger really isn't better.
- With just my wife and myself on board all the interior volume is much more than we need.
- We aren't getting younger and the crew is out of the house
- On a bigger boat, everything is bigger heavier, and more expensive than on a small boat.
- Yes, hard on the wind in a seaway the 38' footer is a more comfortable ride, but if I have to reef, the 18 foot long solid spruce boom is too heavy for my Admirable to pick if I lower the main and the boom misses the boom crutch.
We finally decided to keep the T-L29 - we could sail that by ourselves for many more years than we could the Northeast 38; dock space / storage space cost a lot less.
Finally we downsized to the M15 and discovered a whole new sailing world; a world of peace and quiet; low to "0" cost: you only pay for dock space for the days you need it, not for the whole season. Winter storage is next to the garage and costs nothing.
As far as seaworthiness is concerned, an M15 was sailed from San Diego to Hawaii by a single-hander many years ago.
The point I'm making is that where you can sail and how far you can go is solely determined by *_your_*_*knowledge and sailing experience*_, and is not a function of boat size to sail the SJ.
Remember Captain Bligh sailed across the Pacific with crew members in an open lifeboat from the BOUNTY. The boat size only limits the amount of food, water and crew you can carry.
Connie
ex T-L28
ex Northeast 38
ex Bolger MICRO
ex M-15 #400 LEPPO
On 3/9/2019 9:35 AM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats wrote: Wow! All this food for thought. Great group of boaters. For me, I think small boat vs. big boat is a personal debate on safety on being on open water in a small boat. I love the open water of the islands, but would I be safer in a larger boat. Sometimes I feel guilty that I’m a burden on other members of the Southern Idaho Sailing Association when we come over each August to do our cruise. Just wondering. Thanks for listening,
Pete Chinook Breeze M15 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 8, 2019, at 20:25, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
True, that! And ironically the M15 V-berth is a little bit longer than the M17 (actual sleeping length).
That said, being a tall (but thin) guy, there's no room inside an M15 to do anything other than crawl into the V-berth!
The M17 has that ~3 ft. of (wider higher) cabin space aft of V-berth for cooking, lounging, etc. in less than clement weather.
It's quite a bit more space inside.
cheers, John
On 03/08/2019 07:11 PM, Kirby Stross wrote: m15 vs M17....M-15 bunks easier to crawl into than M-17 because of M-17 deck support stanchion inside cabin. Best Kirby S. M-17hull 395 On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 1:01 PM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) > 2. Re: M17 vs M15 (Bob Eeg) > 3. Re: M17 vs M15 (Lawrence Winiarski) > 4. Re: M17 vs M15 (John Schinnerer) > 5. Re: M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) > 6. Re: M17 vs M15 (islandergirl80@yahoo.com) > 7. Re: M17 vs M15 (Thomas Buzzi) > 8. Re: M17 vs M15 (Douglas Kelch) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 19:35:49 -0800 > From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 > Message-ID: <62D24DB5-4B02-4588-B7AF-B96040609716@mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi all: > I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m > doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. > Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island > hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 > Pete > Chinook Breeze; 377 > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote: >> >> Capt David >> >> I did it about 10 yrs ago >> I will look for pic >> Capt Jim >> >> >> >> >>> On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: >>> Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15 >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> >>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> >>> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am >>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard >>> >>> Skipper >>> On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and > expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller >>> I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel > ballast with lead. >>> If you what more details sand me an email >>> >>> Captain Dos Colitas >>> Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15 >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> > On Behalf Of Burton Lowry >>> Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM >>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> >>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard >>> >>> Hi James, >>> >>> Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust > that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to > do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay > to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. > If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca > cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the >>> molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a > lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that > way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. >>> I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to > last forever. >>> --Burt in Maine >>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com> > wrote: >>>> My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 >>>> M17(Not >>>> Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, >>>> but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's >>>> not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the >>>> cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . >>>> Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the >>>> top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, >>>> floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was >>>> able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to >>>> have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - >>>> since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop >>>> all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail >>>> with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the >>>> amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely >>>> hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and >>>> lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it >>>> from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig > out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to > avoid. >>>> If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap > for >>>> the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge >>>> works. Jim in Denton Texas >>>> > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 04:08:11 +0000 > From: Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> > To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery > Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 > Message-ID: > < > MWHPR1701MB19366B7493719DA1D92BF472B74D0@MWHPR1701MB1936.namprd17.prod.outlook.com > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Pete > > Get one built after 1995. Bring a magnet with you to make sure Lead > ballast. > > Bob.... > > > [image1.jpeg] > > Sent from my iPad > > On Mar 7, 2019, at 7:36 PM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote: > > Hi all: > I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m > doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. > Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island > hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 > Pete > Chinook Breeze; 377 > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: > jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> wrote: > > Capt David > > I did it about 10 yrs ago > I will look for pic > Capt Jim > > > > > On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote: > > Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: > jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> > Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard > > Skipper > On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and > expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller > I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel > ballast with lead. > If you what more details sand me an email > > Captain Dos Colitas > Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15 > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com > <mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>> On Behalf Of > Burton Lowry > Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: > montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard > > Hi James, > > Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust > that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to > do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay > to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. > If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca > cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the > molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a > lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that > way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. > I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to > last forever. > > --Burt in Maine > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com<mailto: > jamesehymes@gmail.com>> wrote: > > My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 > M17(Not > Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, > but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's > not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the > cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . > Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the > top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, > floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was > able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to > have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - > since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop > all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail > with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the > amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely > hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and > lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it > from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out > the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to > avoid. > If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for > the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge > works. Jim in Denton Texas > > > > >