Hi Pete, We've never sailed the San Juan's, but have spent most our time on the waters of the Maine coast, which I hear are similar. My advice: boat size is just one factor. Seaworthiness can be elusive. Our lesson learned: be used to whatever you are sailing in so that you can respond without thinking. We got knocked down in the West Wight Potter 15 on the bay. Not the boats fault-- the habit of lifting up to release the main sheet was intuitive for me and I had rigged the Potter with a space-saving mod I found on the 'net-- re-locating the mainsheet block to the transom. Releasing the mainsheet then required pulling DOWN. Convenient, yes. Smart? Well, after about thirty years of sailing many boats with the motion "up" to release the main we got hit with a combination of wind, tide, and waves that was laying us on our side as I could not get the main to release! Force of habit caused me to pull up harder on the main sheet block as we were starting to take on water. Before we had a capsize I got it figured out and the Potter came back up, but it was a close call. This mod I did nearly sunk us due to learned response of years of sailing pulling UP. Small things can make big consequences-- these sorts of things are more critical than boat size. Burt Lowry Surry, Maine Monty 12 and son's Bristol 24 e Potter to pull down to release the main sheet, as it was a modification others had done due to limited space. Well, we got into a spot where wave and wind were heeling us past the comfort zone and I could not get the sheet released as I kept On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 11:15 AM Alex Conley <conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Pete, sounds like for you it’s a question of perceived safety, rather than amount of living space that makes you consider a larger boat. So let’s look at it from how the differences between the two would play out in the San Juan’s. I’ve yet to take my 15 to the San Juan’s, and haven’t sailed a 17, so all, jump on me where I get this wrong!
The 17 will have a smidge more speed under both sail n power, but both will still require planning to hit the tides right for the passages with the strongest current. Neither will power through a 6 knot ebb while you drink a cocktail.
The two boats will be the same re probably the greatest hazard to small boats in summer, ship/boat traffic in fog in the passages to/from the islands. A horn, radar reflector n radio fit on both.
The volume and greater ballast of a 17 may make her a more comfortable boat in a heavy sea (?) but the San Juans are mostly pretty protected waters without an ocean swell except for the sw of San Juan island. If you were dead set on crossing the Straights from Port Townsend, then you’ve got a real open water challenge- one both boats are probably up to, but a long trip in a small boat in an area where strong winds and swell can come up quickly and not a lot of easy refuges. Sounds like a nervous crossing in either boat. But there’s no reason to do that if you don’t want.
I’ve heard of folks taking their boats on the ferry and launching from a ramp on Friday Harbor, and sticking to the inner islands in order to avoid the crossing from Anacortes. The 15 would be easier n cheaper to put on the ferry... Likewise one can trailer to the Vancouver island shore and sail the Gulf Islands with no need for a crossing. Both options would keep you in pretty protected waters yet let you make some outer passages as weather and comfort allow.
I’m imagining the 15 as more prone to a knockdown in a sudden gust- but I’d ask others how often in summer they have faced that kind of squally condition in the San Juans. If you are comfortable sailing squirrelly Idaho Lakes in winter, I suspect you’d be fine in a San Juan summer. Lack of wind is the more common complaint, and space to carry gas might be the main limit on the 15....
Curious on others thoughts on differences in seaworthiness between the two boats n how that would play out in the San Juan’s. Looking forward to getting up there myself this summer!
Alex
On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 7:36 AM Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Wow! All this food for thought. Great group of boaters. For me, I think small boat vs. big boat is a personal debate on safety on being on open water in a small boat. I love the open water of the islands, but would I be safer in a larger boat. Sometimes I feel guilty that I’m a burden on other members of the Southern Idaho Sailing Association when we come over each August to do our cruise. Just wondering. Thanks for listening,
Pete Chinook Breeze M15 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 8, 2019, at 20:25, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
True, that! And ironically the M15 V-berth is a little bit longer than the M17 (actual sleeping length).
That said, being a tall (but thin) guy, there's no room inside an M15 to do anything other than crawl into the V-berth!
The M17 has that ~3 ft. of (wider higher) cabin space aft of V-berth for cooking, lounging, etc. in less than clement weather.
It's quite a bit more space inside.
cheers, John
On 03/08/2019 07:11 PM, Kirby Stross wrote: m15 vs M17....M-15 bunks easier to crawl into than M-17 because of M-17 deck support stanchion inside cabin. Best Kirby S. M-17hull 395 On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 1:01 PM < montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 2. Re: M17 vs M15 (Bob Eeg) 3. Re: M17 vs M15 (Lawrence Winiarski) 4. Re: M17 vs M15 (John Schinnerer) 5. Re: M17 vs M15 (Peter Zimowsky) 6. Re: M17 vs M15 (islandergirl80@yahoo.com) 7. Re: M17 vs M15 (Thomas Buzzi) 8. Re: M17 vs M15 (Douglas Kelch)
Message: 1 Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2019 19:35:49 -0800 From: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: <62D24DB5-4B02-4588-B7AF-B96040609716@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since
I?m
doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
> On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > > Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard > > Skipper > On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller > I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. > If you what more details sand me an email > > Captain Dos Colitas > Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15 > > -----Original Message----- > From: montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry > Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard > > Hi James, > > Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the > molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. > I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever. > > --Burt in Maine > >> On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com
wrote:
>> >> My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 >> M17(Not >> Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, >> but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's >> not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the >> cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . >> Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the >> top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, >> floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was >> able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to >> have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind
>> since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop >> all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail >> with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the >> amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely >> hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and >> lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it >> from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. >> If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for >> the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge >> works. Jim in Denton Texas >>
------------------------------
Message: 2 Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2019 04:08:11 +0000 From: Bob Eeg <montgomeryboats@hotmail.com> To: Peter Zimowsky <rapidz@mac.com>, For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 vs M15 Message-ID: <
MWHPR1701MB19366B7493719DA1D92BF472B74D0@MWHPR1701MB1936.namprd17.prod.outlook.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Pete
Get one built after 1995. Bring a magnet with you to make sure Lead ballast.
Bob....
[image1.jpeg]
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 7, 2019, at 7:36 PM, Peter Zimowsky via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Hi all: I have a M15 which I love foe ease of local sailing; however since I?m doing more trips in the SJs I think I need a M17. It?s the age old debate. Small boat for 51 weeks of local sailing vs one or two weeks of island hopping. Should I think of trading the M15 for a 17 Pete Chinook Breeze; 377
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:44, Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com <mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> wrote:
Capt David
I did it about 10 yrs ago I will look for pic Capt Jim
On Mar 7, 2019, at 10:07 AM, David Eisner via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> wrote:
Jim,Do you have pictures of your repairs?David EisnerDancer M-15
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com<mailto: jimsadler@jascopacific.com>> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Sent: Tue, Mar 5, 2019 8:33 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Skipper On my M15 the steel ballast in the centerboard and keel rusted and expanded. To get the centerboard down I fabricated a puller I then replaced the CB with a lead filled board and replaced the keel ballast with lead. If you what more details sand me an email
Captain Dos Colitas Skipper sailing vessel Pelican M-15
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com <mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>> On Behalf Of Burton Lowry Sent: Monday, March 4, 2019 3:23 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com<mailto: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Possible solution for stuck centerboard
Hi James,
Before you do something so drastic as to start cutting-- if it is rust that is the problem you may be able to do it chemically. I almost had to do this once.... Was going to pack the keel slot from underneath with clay to make it watertight, then fill it from above with something to eat rust. If not in a hurry, high sulfur molasses does a great job, and so will coca cola., vinegar, etc. You can go on Youtube and see the recipe on the molasses-- five gallons from the feed store is cheap and will last a lifetime it seems. Thinned down... I've de-rusted a lot of stuff that way... just gotta' stir it around a bit every few days. Amazing. Stinks. I keep a 55 gallon plastic barrel ready to go with the stuff-- seems to last forever.
--Burt in Maine
On Mon, Mar 4, 2019 at 5:14 PM James Hymes <jamesehymes@gmail.com <mailto: jamesehymes@gmail.com>> wrote:
My CB has been stuck the past several times I've taken her (#69 M17(Not Coyote- I believe the boat named Coyote has the same number as mine, but was modified for racing - doesn't have a full cabin--but that 's not important right now). anyways, I drilled a 3/4" hole in the cockpit floor just aft of the doorway into the cabin above the CB . Drilled it there so that the steel rod will have good contact with the top of the stuck CB. I used a steel rod and a 10 lb sledgehammer, floated the boat but kept it on the trailer at the boat ramp. I was able to lower the CB a little, didn't have the motor so didn't want to have to struggle getting the boat back on the trailer in the wind - since it was not in open water I didn't get to see if it would drop all the way, will find that out next time. The last time I did sail with the CB up, it was too windy, and I was uncomfortable with the amount of heeling it did and also didnt point so well. I'm extremely hopefull the CB will drop all the way, cause if not I'll take ti and lift the boat on land and try wiggling the CB out while hitting it from above, may have to get drastic and cut open the keel and dig out the old steel slugs and replace with lead ballast - something I hope to avoid. If it works out, I'll put in some sort of plastic with a removable cap for the steel rod to fit into. I'll repost to let ya'll know if the sledge works. Jim in Denton Texas