Hello fellow Monty sailors, my 1987 Montgomery 17 "Seaweed" needs some refurbishing done. The three main things are: -- new halyards-- new sail(s)-- solve an issue with the rudder I already sent an email about the halyards, whether I should use 1/4" or 5/16" line. I hope some of you will reply to that. My sails are the original McKibbin ones that came with the boat almost 35 years ago. I have a main sail (with rope that slides through the boom, so it is not loose-footed), a jib and a 155 genoa. The genoa is in good shape; the jib is ok, though I have had to use sail tape to fix it in a couple of places. The main is the worst; though it has no tears, it is quite baggy so my upwind performance suffers. I will certainly need to replace the main, and possibly the jib too. My question is, who have people used for ordering new sails? And roughly how much would a main and jib cost? I have heard that there are some places in China that do a good job at a lower price, is that an option, or does the quality difference not justify the difference in price? Final question. This summer I decided to moor my boat on Lake Michigan. The place where I've put down the mooring has about 5 feet of water, which usually is plenty for the boat even with the rudder down. My boat has the original one-piece wood rudder, supported on a three-foot-long bronze bar that goes through three pintles. The first few times I left the boat by itself it was without a rudder. But two weeks ago I left the rudder on, lowered, thinking that it had plenty of room. I was wrong: a south wind came while I was away, bringing with it big waves, the boat hobby-horsed and hit the rudder on the rocky bottom. Luckily the rudder itself appears mostly undamaged (it needs a few small fiberglass repairs that I can do). The bronze bar bent, so I'll need a new one, but I think I have found a source for it. The bigger question is what I will do after I fix everything. Putting the rudder in/out every time I sail is not an option -- it is too complicated to do with the boat on the water. Leaving the boat with the rudder in the up position is not ideal either -- the rope holding the rudder up rubs constantly against the rudder (from the wave action) and will probably chafe and break. A kick up rudder from RudderCraft is $700, which I find ridiculously expensive. But I may have to bite the bullet if nothing better comes along. Do people have a good experience with the kick-up rudder? Or are there good ways of holding the rudder up in a way that won't constantly squeak? Any other ideas? Thanks,Andrei. On Monday, June 14, 2021, 02:40:55 PM CDT, montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com <montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com> wrote: Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request@mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner@mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? (Edward Epifani) 2. Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? (Dave Scobie) 3. Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? (Charlie Fortner) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 15:54:31 +0000 From: Edward Epifani <edepifani@hotmail.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> Message-ID: <CO1PR10MB4771D21E4D4ADD93423AD1EBB2319@CO1PR10MB4771.nam prd10.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Useful article on “Marine How To” site advocating Butyl tape. Especially useful technique of using a cone bevel to increase available sealant directly under fastener. Thanks for all input. Improper sealing obviously can lead to core rot, a mess, if not a boat killer , if neglected. Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 13, 2021, at 11:31 PM, John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I second, or third, or wherever we're at, the butyl tape.
The 3M products are also known as "Satan's glue" - for good reason. They have their uses, but for bedding most of what's above waterline on an M17 or M15 or most other boats I've messed with I'd use butyl tape.
I've re-bedded pretty much everything on my M17 with it in the last few years, and used it for all added hardware. Some of my boat's original hardware had no original bedding, which I found interesting. And some had been (re-)done by some previous owner with silicone, oh what a PITA to undo!
The butyl tape will in some applications continue to squeeze out excess over time, which is probably what the other post is referring to. I have had a bit of that. It's easy to just trim off, if you tighten or re-tighten something and notice that squeezing out, which will attract dust & grit if you leave it there.
Also if you have bedded stuff with butyl in the spring, or the previous fall, and then your boat is out in sun and hot weather in the summer, the additional expansion from additional heat of some parts & pieces may squeeze out a bit more butyl than in the days after you originally installed it. I have had some of that too, I just trim or scrape away the extra butyl.
cheers, John
On 6/13/21 3:31 PM, Charlie Fortner wrote: Hello Wrinkleboat lovers! What's you're favorite material for re-bedding deck hardware? I've used some sort of caulk-like stuff -- can't remember what -- in the past. It was goo in a tube. I've seen butyl tape recommended, but never used it. Do you have experience with butyl tape? Does it hold up? Are there other bedding materials I should look at? It'd be great if I could re-bed and then immediately go sail. Thanks, Charlie
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:05:25 -0700 From: Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <CAGjBOA6P3CN9EJzHzmy-EiDGYy27kZ3OxAhmTVBX+8Mm5B4L=Q@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Edward and others following along: Yes it is neglect that kills these boats. The balsa cored deck and transom are not a problem if one rebeds hardware when signs of leaking appear: rust weeping out from under deck fittings, rusty nuts and washers inside the cabin and the obvious dripping water. The lack of a headliner means removing hardware isn't to challenging (non-removable headliners are carpet glued to the inside of boats is just bad design IMO). :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - m15namedscred.wordpress.com <<-- new site! On Mon, Jun 14, 2021, 8:54 AM Edward Epifani <edepifani@hotmail.com> wrote:
Useful article on “Marine How To” site advocating Butyl tape. Especially useful technique of using a cone bevel to increase available sealant directly under fastener. Thanks for all input. Improper sealing obviously can lead to core rot, a mess, if not a boat killer , if neglected.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 13, 2021, at 11:31 PM, John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I second, or third, or wherever we're at, the butyl tape.
The 3M products are also known as "Satan's glue" - for good reason. They have their uses, but for bedding most of what's above waterline on an M17 or M15 or most other boats I've messed with I'd use butyl tape.
I've re-bedded pretty much everything on my M17 with it in the last few years, and used it for all added hardware. Some of my boat's original hardware had no original bedding, which I found interesting. And some had been (re-)done by some previous owner with silicone, oh what a PITA to undo!
The butyl tape will in some applications continue to squeeze out excess over time, which is probably what the other post is referring to. I have had a bit of that. It's easy to just trim off, if you tighten or re-tighten something and notice that squeezing out, which will attract dust & grit if you leave it there.
Also if you have bedded stuff with butyl in the spring, or the previous fall, and then your boat is out in sun and hot weather in the summer, the additional expansion from additional heat of some parts & pieces may squeeze out a bit more butyl than in the days after you originally installed it. I have had some of that too, I just trim or scrape away the extra butyl.
cheers, John
On 6/13/21 3:31 PM, Charlie Fortner wrote: Hello Wrinkleboat lovers! What's you're favorite material for re-bedding deck hardware? I've used some sort of caulk-like stuff -- can't remember what -- in the past. It was goo in a tube. I've seen butyl tape recommended, but never used it. Do you have experience with butyl tape? Does it hold up? Are there other bedding materials I should look at? It'd be great if I could re-bed and then immediately go sail. Thanks, Charlie
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2021 15:01:28 -0400 From: "Charlie Fortner" <charlie@rentrof.net> Subject: M_Boats: Re: Tape for deck hardware re-bedding? To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <4b9c29fe-5b23-475a-b667-5e238cae76b6@www.fastmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain On Sun, Jun 13, 2021, at 21:08, Dave Scobie wrote:
Please don't use silicone nor 3M5200 on the boat. (On a Montgomery/Sage there is ONE exception to the silicone rule.)
No worries about me using silicone. I hate the stuff, both on the boat and in the house. And I've read enough about 5200 to be wary of it. For posterity and my curiosity, what's the one Monty/Sage silicon exception? Charlie ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list -- montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com To unsubscribe send an email to montgomery_boats-leave@mailman.xmission.com %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! ------------------------------ End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 220, Issue 3 ************************************************