October 2017 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Re: M_Boats: Season finale adventures, and "hove to" on main
by Dan Farrell 17 Oct '17

17 Oct '17

Awesome, I know those conditions! Great sailing if you have the right amount of canvas.. Last time I saw 20 some mph gusts on my little late, I had my 150 and a full main flying and the wind picked up. I was a little over canvased, but once the reef was in and the lapper on (I typically sail with a 110 on moderate conditions) the boat was galloping to weather. Always nice to tuck in a reef; it means we have enough wind to have fun :) Ah sailing, I miss it already and the snow isn't even flying. Guess I should pull the boat somewhere and go sailing this weekend. Dan Farrell M17 #301 John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> wrote: >Wish I were better at estimating...or had a wind meter. > > From the windy.com forecast and NOAA forecast extrapolations for that >day, and prior experience with lesser wind on the same lake, and times >out with friends elsewhere who did have wind meters...I would guess the >peak gusts were hitting ~25+, and wind varying between 15-20 in between. >They're the kind of lake gusts where the very first burst might be even >more than the duration of the gust, then it backs off for the duration >of the gust, then back to the "prevailing" wind for a while. > >cheers, >John S. > >On 10/14/2017 04:58 PM, Dan Farrell wrote: >> Any idea what the wind speeds might have been? >> >> Dan Farrell >> M17 #301 >> >> John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> wrote: >> >>> You're welcome...the lake and the County park & marina are a great >>> resource - when there's water enough to fill it, at least (this is the >>> first year it got full in last six years; last year it maxed at 70%, >>> this year we still have about 74%; the shallow end of docks goes aground >>> at about 70%). >>> >>> Speaking of Howard Prairie lake, yesterday was the windiest I've ever >>> sailed there. >>> I headed out with the usual 80% jib and first (relatively small) >>> "flattening" reef in main, 'cause it looked like "the usual" winds. >>> >>> But it was more, especially some of the gusts were more intense, and it >>> picked up a bit even. I ended up putting the next reef in the main - the >>> first "full" reef that really takes a bite out of sail area (I've got >>> three reef points - a relatively small one that someone here said was >>> probably a "flattening" reef, and then two more bigger ones). >>> >>> First time I've done that since I got the boat. Definitely made it more >>> manageable. And surprising how fast she still moved along, with the 80% >>> jib still on. >>> >>> cheers, >>> John S. >>> >>> >>> On 10/08/2017 04:35 AM, Burton Lowry wrote: >>>> Hi John S, >>>> >>>> Your mention of Howard Prarie brings back many memories for me, thank you. >>>> >>>> Back in the mid 60's, we would go fishing there in our wooden drift boat >>>> and often come away with all getting nearly full limits of 10 each. Those, >>>> into the smoker. >>>> >>>> Back then, sailboats were a mystery to me but I got involved with the Sea >>>> Scouts, Ship 3, in Medford and learned to sail. (Graduated from Medford >>>> High '72). Now we live in Maine on the coast and have had a number of >>>> boats--now, for sail just a little Montgomery 12. By the way, with the >>>> wind, tide, and currents here the waves are steep--more like a lake than >>>> the Pacific. >>>> >>>> Thanks for the reminder of those days. >>>> >>>> Blessings, >>>> >>>> Burt L. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 1:09 AM, John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> Just to report that I put Pajarita back in the water at Howard Prairie >>>>> lake up in the hills Thursday for a brief while...we're having a last blast >>>>> of mild early fall weather. >>>>> >>>>> First couple days, there were very light winds early afternoon and I >>>>> actually got to use the 150 (Genoa) first time in quite a while. >>>>> >>>>> Yesterday I started with that and then after ghosting for maybe 20 >>>>> minutes, in 15 minutes as lake winds do around here, it reversed and kicked >>>>> up to overpowered... >>>>> So I "hove to" on main, and did a headsail change mid-lake. >>>>> >>>>> I have experimented before with some ideas I've read about how to sort of >>>>> "heave to" on main - it's not like the classic with the backwinded jib. >>>>> It's more of a slightly luffing windward experience. >>>>> Basically, somewhere above beam reach, and, not super close to the wind. >>>>> Rudder set to turn very slightly to windward, and mainsheet a bit soft. >>>>> >>>>> My M17 at least does this quite well, sort of "scalloping" gently to >>>>> windward (with extra sideways drift of course). She loses way as the slight >>>>> rudder turns her to windward, but there's not enough speed or rudder to >>>>> anywhere near come through the wind, so the bow blows off the wind again >>>>> and luffing reduces and she gains just enough way for the rudder to swing >>>>> her gently back to slightly luffing...and so on. >>>>> >>>>> This was gusty conditions, without any complications. I have a bungee & >>>>> jam cleat "tiller holder" and I suspect the flex in the system helps make >>>>> it smoother - the tiller will give some, but then spring back to its >>>>> setting, if a gust suddenly blows the bow off faster or scoots her forward >>>>> faster. >>>>> >>>>> I also wanted to get her out to test having moved the jib sheet cam cleats >>>>> to a better position than where they were when I got her. >>>>> I will post some pix separately to show the modification. >>>>> Suffice to say for now it is WAY better, whether single-handing or with >>>>> passengers, and I still have no idea why some previous owner put those cam >>>>> cleats where they did...! >>>>> >>>>> cheers, >>>>> John S. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>>>> -------------------------------------------- >>>>> - Eco-Living - >>>>> Whole Systems Design Services >>>>> People - Place - Learning - Integration >>>>> john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >>>>> http://eco-living.net >>>>> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> - Eco-Living - >>> Whole Systems Design Services >>> People - Place - Learning - Integration >>> john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >>> http://eco-living.net >>> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >>> > >-- >John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >-------------------------------------------- >- Eco-Living - >Whole Systems Design Services >People - Place - Learning - Integration >john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >http://eco-living.net >http://sociocracyconsulting.com >

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5 day Monty 15 cruise Choptank
by sheppardtb＠yahoo.com 17 Oct '17

17 Oct '17

Thanks for sharing your sail trip. I was hoping to sail there this fall but couldn't. Maybe next year . Tom. Sent from my iPad

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Re: M_Boats: Season finale adventures, and "hove to" on main
by Dan Farrell 16 Oct '17

16 Oct '17

Any idea what the wind speeds might have been? Dan Farrell M17 #301 John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> wrote: >You're welcome...the lake and the County park & marina are a great >resource - when there's water enough to fill it, at least (this is the >first year it got full in last six years; last year it maxed at 70%, >this year we still have about 74%; the shallow end of docks goes aground >at about 70%). > >Speaking of Howard Prairie lake, yesterday was the windiest I've ever >sailed there. >I headed out with the usual 80% jib and first (relatively small) >"flattening" reef in main, 'cause it looked like "the usual" winds. > >But it was more, especially some of the gusts were more intense, and it >picked up a bit even. I ended up putting the next reef in the main - the >first "full" reef that really takes a bite out of sail area (I've got >three reef points - a relatively small one that someone here said was >probably a "flattening" reef, and then two more bigger ones). > >First time I've done that since I got the boat. Definitely made it more >manageable. And surprising how fast she still moved along, with the 80% >jib still on. > >cheers, >John S. > > >On 10/08/2017 04:35 AM, Burton Lowry wrote: >> Hi John S, >> >> Your mention of Howard Prarie brings back many memories for me, thank you. >> >> Back in the mid 60's, we would go fishing there in our wooden drift boat >> and often come away with all getting nearly full limits of 10 each. Those, >> into the smoker. >> >> Back then, sailboats were a mystery to me but I got involved with the Sea >> Scouts, Ship 3, in Medford and learned to sail. (Graduated from Medford >> High '72). Now we live in Maine on the coast and have had a number of >> boats--now, for sail just a little Montgomery 12. By the way, with the >> wind, tide, and currents here the waves are steep--more like a lake than >> the Pacific. >> >> Thanks for the reminder of those days. >> >> Blessings, >> >> Burt L. >> >> On Sun, Oct 8, 2017 at 1:09 AM, John Schinnerer <john(a)eco-living.net> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Just to report that I put Pajarita back in the water at Howard Prairie >>> lake up in the hills Thursday for a brief while...we're having a last blast >>> of mild early fall weather. >>> >>> First couple days, there were very light winds early afternoon and I >>> actually got to use the 150 (Genoa) first time in quite a while. >>> >>> Yesterday I started with that and then after ghosting for maybe 20 >>> minutes, in 15 minutes as lake winds do around here, it reversed and kicked >>> up to overpowered... >>> So I "hove to" on main, and did a headsail change mid-lake. >>> >>> I have experimented before with some ideas I've read about how to sort of >>> "heave to" on main - it's not like the classic with the backwinded jib. >>> It's more of a slightly luffing windward experience. >>> Basically, somewhere above beam reach, and, not super close to the wind. >>> Rudder set to turn very slightly to windward, and mainsheet a bit soft. >>> >>> My M17 at least does this quite well, sort of "scalloping" gently to >>> windward (with extra sideways drift of course). She loses way as the slight >>> rudder turns her to windward, but there's not enough speed or rudder to >>> anywhere near come through the wind, so the bow blows off the wind again >>> and luffing reduces and she gains just enough way for the rudder to swing >>> her gently back to slightly luffing...and so on. >>> >>> This was gusty conditions, without any complications. I have a bungee & >>> jam cleat "tiller holder" and I suspect the flex in the system helps make >>> it smoother - the tiller will give some, but then spring back to its >>> setting, if a gust suddenly blows the bow off faster or scoots her forward >>> faster. >>> >>> I also wanted to get her out to test having moved the jib sheet cam cleats >>> to a better position than where they were when I got her. >>> I will post some pix separately to show the modification. >>> Suffice to say for now it is WAY better, whether single-handing or with >>> passengers, and I still have no idea why some previous owner put those cam >>> cleats where they did...! >>> >>> cheers, >>> John S. >>> >>> -- >>> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> - Eco-Living - >>> Whole Systems Design Services >>> People - Place - Learning - Integration >>> john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >>> http://eco-living.net >>> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >>> >>> > >-- >John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >-------------------------------------------- >- Eco-Living - >Whole Systems Design Services >People - Place - Learning - Integration >john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >http://eco-living.net >http://sociocracyconsulting.com >

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Five day Monty 15 cruise in Choptank Rvr/Chesapeake Bay
by brad kurlancheek 16 Oct '17

16 Oct '17

I was able to get my Monty 15 out to the the Cambridge MD area where the Choptank meets the Chesapeak during that first week of October when Indian summer hit. It was a 5 day cruise - the 2nd time I'd done that with this boat - my first being last October at Raystown Lake in Penna. I'm used to making such multi-day cruises in a wooden microcruiser some 13 feet long, a Shell Swifty, so sojourning in the Monty always seems to be a bit luxurious and spacious. It took a while for me to get to the launch ramp in Cambridge. I needed a day to clean the boat after a long winter outside, another day to practice rigging and reefing, a third day to marshall all the gear into one room, a 4th to pack it all into the Xterra and boat, and a 5th to drive everything down there (4 to 5 hr drive). The original plan, driving down there on Sunday Oct 1st, was to motel it that night and get an early start onto the water the next day, but the drive went so smoothly I nixed that plan and attempted instead to get the boat, me and gear into the water sailing and to Bolinbroke Creek under the Rte 50 Bridge and across the Choptank, all before dark. Right. With white knuckles and a thrill, it was fun sailing across the Choptank in Force 3 & 4 winds under the Rte 50 bridge in the dark (a first time ever for me as a sailor) - thankfully a good sized moon was out - as we sailed through the 1 to 2 foot shoal area at the entrance to Bolingbroke, thankful for the Monty's shallow draft. I spent the remainder of the evening sitting on the bow deck, in the sheltered flat water of Bolingbroke, untangling the anchor line, and hit the sack about 9 pm, with no dinner but grateful to have made it. Spent all that week sailing in delightful weather, reefing for the first time while at sail, discovering how simple and effective heaving-to is in the Monty, wondering if the oars and electric trawling motor I'd brought were even needed at all, ever, on a boat like this (maybe not!), and pretty much had the best single-handed sailing of this life yet. One day sailing out in the Choptank adjacent to the Tred Avon, I looked out into the Chesapeake and could see no land - another first for this novice sailor. Brought the boat in Friday afternoon after sailing all morning, sailing the Monty into the ramp area by main alone, and there commenced the hardest part of the cruise, the packing up and driving back. But I was fortunate to stop at the Annapolis Sailboat Show on the way back, and say hello to Sal Glesser and Dave Scobie at Sage, Geoff Marshall and wife over at Marshall Marine, Shawn Payment over at Gig Harbor, Mark Johannsen (owner/builder of the Trinka 10), and some good folks over at Com-Pac. For me there is just no better way to spend vacation time than cruising on a small sailboat like the M15 for a number of days single handed, anchoring out at night and sailing and exploring during the day. Fair winds - Brad

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Re: M_Boats: ..."hove to" on main
by Mark Dvorscak 16 Oct '17

16 Oct '17

I used the same technique on my M23 out on the Pacific a few weeks ago. I had started with the 150 Genoa but later in the day the wind picked up enough that I was overpowered. I was solo so I hove to then dropped the headsail. I watched to see how the boat would behave with the main and tiller set as John described. I had a 3-4' swell running from the NW with a 1-2' swell from the South and 2' wind waves from the north. The boat behaved very well and I tethered up, went forward and made the headsail change. It worked out very nicely and safely. Mark Dvorscak M23 Faith Salmon Harbor, Oregon On Oct 7, 2017 10:09 PM, "John Schinnerer" <john(a)eco-living.net> wrote: Hi all, Just to report that I put Pajarita back in the water at Howard Prairie lake up in the hills Thursday for a brief while...we're having a last blast of mild early fall weather. First couple days, there were very light winds early afternoon and I actually got to use the 150 (Genoa) first time in quite a while. Yesterday I started with that and then after ghosting for maybe 20 minutes, in 15 minutes as lake winds do around here, it reversed and kicked up to overpowered... So I "hove to" on main, and did a headsail change mid-lake. I have experimented before with some ideas I've read about how to sort of "heave to" on main - it's not like the classic with the backwinded jib. It's more of a slightly luffing windward experience. Basically, somewhere above beam reach, and, not super close to the wind. Rudder set to turn very slightly to windward, and mainsheet a bit soft. My M17 at least does this quite well, sort of "scalloping" gently to windward (with extra sideways drift of course). She loses way as the slight rudder turns her to windward, but there's not enough speed or rudder to anywhere near come through the wind, so the bow blows off the wind again and luffing reduces and she gains just enough way for the rudder to swing her gently back to slightly luffing...and so on. This was gusty conditions, without any complications. I have a bungee & jam cleat "tiller holder" and I suspect the flex in the system helps make it smoother - the tiller will give some, but then spring back to its setting, if a gust suddenly blows the bow off faster or scoots her forward faster. I also wanted to get her out to test having moved the jib sheet cam cleats to a better position than where they were when I got her. I will post some pix separately to show the modification. Suffice to say for now it is WAY better, whether single-handing or with passengers, and I still have no idea why some previous owner put those cam cleats where they did...! cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

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Selling my M15
by Blair Ashworth 15 Oct '17

15 Oct '17

Unfortunately I have to sell my M15 to pay for my daughter's college tuition. I am flexible on price. I listed a little high for craigslist purposes to allow for wiggle room but would love to see it go to someone in this great group. Give me a call or message me to see it. I live in North Orange County California about 10 minutes from Disneyland area. https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/boa/d/montgomery-15-sailboat/6302113429…

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Re: M_Boats: M-23 Pinch Me sold
by bownez＠juno.com 11 Oct '17

11 Oct '17

Hi Robbin, I have 16 years of memories with my M23 and will draw on them frequently. They really are dreamy boats. I know what you mean about potential buyers, there are loads of tire kickers out there. Did you buy that catboat you were talking about? Bones ____________________________________________________________ You Had One Job - Epic Construction Fails dietlast.com http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/59dd824c3008c24c77f1st01vuc

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Re: M_Boats: M-23 Pinch Me sold
by bownez＠juno.com 09 Oct '17

09 Oct '17

Congratulations Robbin! A bittersweet moment I'll wager, it was for me... Bones ____________________________________________________________ Avoid Botox: How To Remove Eye Bags & Wrinkles In 1 Minute Fit Mom Daily http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/59db6f17a863c6f174900st04vuc

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Jib cam cleat modification pics
by John Schinnerer 08 Oct '17

08 Oct '17

Here's some before and after shots of my latest functional improvement to jib sheet handling (not necessarily in before-after order as attached). The before pics show the original jam cleat in the original location, and the big hefty cam cleat that some previous owner added. The after pics show my relocation of the cam cleats, close to the winch, on a riser block, angled for easier handling. For some reason they put those cam cleats way aft on the coaming, and with no riser blocks. A really awkward location and mounting. Everything is in the way - the tiller, any passengers one might have in the cockpit, the coaming itself due to the angle of sheet from winch to cam cleat (can't get sheet into cleat with one hand if there's any tension on it). The reach is awkward. To get a solid pull on the sheet was awkward. I hadn't used a handle on the winch but that would be awkward too because of the distance from winch to cleat. Having tested the mod last few days out sailing, it is WAY better, for reasons that I think will be obvious from the pics. Angle, reach, location, height, ability to pull hard and get sheet in cam with one hand. Big thanks to Dave Scobie for the raw material that I made the risers out of (some scrap 1" brown starboard from his shop)! A nice bonus was that the fasteners for the cam cleats were way longer than needed for the original mounting, and just the right length for the new mounting on the riser blocks. cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

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Season finale adventures, and "hove to" on main
by John Schinnerer 08 Oct '17

08 Oct '17

Hi all, Just to report that I put Pajarita back in the water at Howard Prairie lake up in the hills Thursday for a brief while...we're having a last blast of mild early fall weather. First couple days, there were very light winds early afternoon and I actually got to use the 150 (Genoa) first time in quite a while. Yesterday I started with that and then after ghosting for maybe 20 minutes, in 15 minutes as lake winds do around here, it reversed and kicked up to overpowered... So I "hove to" on main, and did a headsail change mid-lake. I have experimented before with some ideas I've read about how to sort of "heave to" on main - it's not like the classic with the backwinded jib. It's more of a slightly luffing windward experience. Basically, somewhere above beam reach, and, not super close to the wind. Rudder set to turn very slightly to windward, and mainsheet a bit soft. My M17 at least does this quite well, sort of "scalloping" gently to windward (with extra sideways drift of course). She loses way as the slight rudder turns her to windward, but there's not enough speed or rudder to anywhere near come through the wind, so the bow blows off the wind again and luffing reduces and she gains just enough way for the rudder to swing her gently back to slightly luffing...and so on. This was gusty conditions, without any complications. I have a bungee & jam cleat "tiller holder" and I suspect the flex in the system helps make it smoother - the tiller will give some, but then spring back to its setting, if a gust suddenly blows the bow off faster or scoots her forward faster. I also wanted to get her out to test having moved the jib sheet cam cleats to a better position than where they were when I got her. I will post some pix separately to show the modification. Suffice to say for now it is WAY better, whether single-handing or with passengers, and I still have no idea why some previous owner put those cam cleats where they did...! cheers, John S. -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john(a)eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

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