September 2014 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Who is it is in need of M-17 CB winch ?
by GILASAILR＠aol.com 06 Sep '14

06 Sep '14

I am sorry - I seem to have lost/forgotten who needed a 17 CB winch - Please contact me at gila sailr at aol . com Thanks. Gary O.

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Forestry attachment
by gordonsaville80＠yahoo.com 05 Sep '14

05 Sep '14

Split rings wrapped with canvass Sent from my iPod

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Bahia de Los Angeles in October
by David Grah 05 Sep '14

05 Sep '14

We're planning a trip with our Montgomery 15 to Bahia de Los Angeles the first full week of October and would be interested if any one else in the group might be in the area then. We're learning a lot about Chubascos, Elefantes, and noseeums in preparation! David Grah Bishop California Montgomery 15 - Sky

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Re: M_Boats: forestay attachment
by nebwest2＠aol.com 04 Sep '14

04 Sep '14

Um....I don't think she did.....and there are a fair number of people that agree with her (some even residing here..lol)....but such is life. I'm over it. ;-) Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

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Forestay attachment
by Thomas Buzzi 04 Sep '14

04 Sep '14

Clevis pins, spring pins, etc. I started with pins of one sort of another and found that trying to hold tension on the forestay while trying to align the tiny holes for the pin to slide through the stemhead fitting as well as the ends of the turnbuckle was an exercise is frustration highlighted with the possibility of allowing the forestay to slip out of my hand altogether ending my sailing day with a mast bent double over the transom or the pin falling on the ground out of my reach unless I lowered the mast to retrieve it or that fatal "sploop" sound as it deep sixed itself. etc. etc. etc. What to do, what to do???? Stay home and drink pins coladas? No, find a way to make it so easy and fool proof and safe so that not even sitting on my patio with said pina colada would deter me from a day on the water. So....my placing a shackle through the holes on the stem head fitting I created a LARGE target to hit with whatever I was aiming with. Then I attached a three inch snap shackle to the end of the forestay. Voila! Now I had one hand for the forestay and ONE HAND to slip the pelican hook type end of the snap shackle through the large target shackle on the stem head fitting. My closing the snap shackle by simply squeezing it together I also tensioned the rig. The only thing easier is falling off the proverbial log, unless you prefer falling off the bow of your boat trying to align pins with holes while juggling a dancing forestay. Try it, you will like it. Sailing in Rockport, Tom B, Mont 17 #258, '77

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forestay attachment
by Thomas Buzzi 04 Sep '14

04 Sep '14

Thanks for your input on this subject, Nebwest2. (Did your mother not like you?[?]) Seriously though, experience like yours with West Marine is quite valuable. Thanks for the warning. Being a long standing "belt and suspenders man" I will engineer a second snap shackle into my stem head operation. It will probably consist of a "lazy"snap shackle on a regular shackle bridging the loaded snap shackle. All parts will still be within easy reach and remain attached to the boat. It will require less than five seconds to use and will double the odds in my favor of not parting my bald spot with a mast. Sounds too good to pass up. Fair winds, Tom B, Mont.17 #258,'77

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Re: M_Boats: Forestay attachment
by stevetrapp 04 Sep '14

04 Sep '14

I replaced the turnbuckle with a snapshackle. Attaches with pins and holders. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Davies" <jdavies104(a)gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 7:25 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Forestay attachment > Tom, > > How do you attach the snap shackle to the forestay, and how do you > compensate for the added forestay length? > > Do you replace the turnbuckle with the snap shackle? > > Rick > M17 #633 > Lynne L The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: M-15 forestay device 002 M-15 forestay device 003 Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.

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Re: M_Boats: Forestay attachment montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 138, Issue 16
by nebwest2＠aol.com 04 Sep '14

04 Sep '14

Spent a fair number of years working for West Marine. I cannot begin to even tell you how many times someone preached to me the virtues of ways to replace the foolproof clevis pin/split ring combo with some quick pin method. I'm talking ball detent pins, hitch pins, snap shackles, etc etc etc, all methods designed for quick release.I also cannot tell you how many times sad faced individuals returned to the store to describe how the quick release pin did its job remarkably well.....at the wrong time....ending with a total rig failure. No arguments from me, clevis pins and split rings are a pain in the arse. For me, they still remain the only thing I will use in a critical attachment point. One thing that can make life MUCH easier....is to purchase a "split ring pliers" made specifically to assist in spreading the split ring open while holding it securely for insertion. They are great. By the way...every sad face that came back into the store with their story of rig disaster....returned to the tried and true split ring with a wrap of rigging tape around it. Apparently the inconvenience of losing the rig far outweighed the inconvenience of the split ring. I know, I know....someone will post..."I've used such and such methods for eons and never had an issue". That's cool. I'm just saying ....in 13 years of employment with west marine....I have never had anyone come in having had a wrapped split ring fail....can't say the same for the other methods. Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

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Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 138, Issue 16
by Neil Dorf 04 Sep '14

04 Sep '14

Hi all, just returned from some great sailing on Humboldt Bay. Will post a few pics on the trailersailor forum when I get a minute. Daniel: Sorry you couldn't bring Kestrel up to join us. I was a blast. Quick wave as I trailered down 101 past Santa Rosa today. My 2 cents on the the pin for the forestay is this: When considering risk in general, I look at two factors: A) How likely, on a numerical scale, is a bad outcome (pin comes out, forestay swings loose, mast comes crashing down) likely to happen? B) IF that bad outcome were to happen, how severe, on the same numerical scale, would the outcome be? I you go with a 1-5 rating, I would put the first item at a "1" or "2", meaning not too likely under reasonable conditions; especially with the sensible precautions Judy B. suggests. However, for (B), I would peg at a "5", meaning not too cool. Especially in rough conditions. Mast could maybe rip off the tabernacle, worse, fall upon and severly injure skipper or crew. (B) alone--no matter how low you rate (A), is sufficient for me to forego any thoughts of deviating from the clevis pin and split ring approach. Just sayin' By the way, and not to veer too far from the subject, but not having a permanently mounted transom / swim ladder, in my estimation, would have similar A/B ratings. Actually maybe (A) would be three, depending upon how "flat" (or not) you like to sail. If I forgot to put up my vang, maybe I would be very likely to regret it and have to deal with more twist than I would prefer. (a 4 or 5) but the severity, except for maybe racing, would be "1" (probably not going to capsize, crash, or anyone get injured due to not having it rigged). Don't take risks when the stakes applicable to safety are high. fair winds, Neil '85 M15 "TwoCan", Northern Cal. On 8/31/2014 3:33 PM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: A Lesson (Judith Blumhorst, DC) > 2. Re: A Lesson (Conbert Benneck) > 3. Re: A Lesson (Mitch Carnes) > 4. Forestay attachment (Thomas Buzzi) > 5. Re: Forestay attachment (jerry montgomery) > 6. Re: A Lesson (Tom Jenkins) > 7. Re: (no subject) (Michael Murphy) > 8. : M-15 forestay device (stevetrapp) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 11:39:22 -0700 > From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> > To: David Grah <d_b_grah(a)yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery > Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: A Lesson > Message-ID: > <1409510362.67843.YahooMailNeo(a)web121602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi Dave, > > I have used a solid body push pin at the bottome of the forestay for decades, but I "mouse" it with thin line used as a lanyard to hold the pin on the toggle. The mousing gets wrapped with rigging tape. To remove the pin, I have to cut through the rigging tape with my knife to undo the mousing/lashing. > > So far, so good..... > > Judy > > > > Judy Blumhorst > Hyde Sails of Northern California > www.judybsails.com > judy(a)judybsails.com > > cell: 925.208.1692 > fax: 925.820.2327 > skype: judith.blumhorst > www.HydeSails.com > > > > > ________________________________ > From: David Grah via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:18 PM > Subject: M_Boats: A Lesson > > > I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. > > I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. > > > I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group that said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. > > > After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a bit from time to time. > > At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. > > I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the fore stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of the fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put the pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it should work fine. > > As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a safety clip. > > They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it has taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to connect the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! > > > David Grah > Bishop California > Montgomery 15 - Sky > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 13:51:57 -0500 > From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com> > To: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com>, For and about > Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: A Lesson > Message-ID: <54036ECD.70401(a)gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 31-Aug-14 1:39 PM, Judith Blumhorst, DC wrote: > > Hi Judy, > > I like your "belt & suspenders" approach. Never give MURPHY a chance to > do his dirty work. > > I used a ball clevis pin for all the years I owned the M15 and never had > a problem; but it's better to be safe than sorry. > > Connie, the boat-less sailor in Dallas. >> Hi Dave, >> >> I have used a solid body push pin at the bottome of the forestay for decades, but I "mouse" it with thin line used as a lanyard to hold the pin on the toggle. The mousing gets wrapped with rigging tape. To remove the pin, I have to cut through the rigging tape with my knife to undo the mousing/lashing. >> >> So far, so good..... >> >> Judy >> >> >> >> Judy Blumhorst >> Hyde Sails of Northern California >> www.judybsails.com >> judy(a)judybsails.com >> >> cell: 925.208.1692 >> fax: 925.820.2327 >> skype: judith.blumhorst >> www.HydeSails.com >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: David Grah via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:18 PM >> Subject: M_Boats: A Lesson >> >> >> I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. >> >> I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. >> >> >> I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group that said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. >> >> >> After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a bit from time to time. >> >> At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. >> >> I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the fore stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of the fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put the pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it should work fine. >> >> As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a safety clip. >> >> They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it has taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to connect the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! >> >> >> David Grah >> Bishop California >> Montgomery 15 - Sky > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 12:22:24 -0700 > From: Mitch Carnes <mitch_carnes(a)sbcglobal.net> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>, "Judith Blumhorst, DC" > <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: A Lesson > Message-ID: > <1409512944.23068.YahooMailNeo(a)web181605.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I use a Harken "Toggle Pin" which has a spring tension "T" on the end which has served me well for years. The only potential for failure I see is the small pin that holds the Toggle in place, which takes a constant salt water bath on the bow. > Mitch > > > On Sunday, August 31, 2014 11:52 AM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > On 31-Aug-14 1:39 PM, Judith Blumhorst, DC wrote: > > Hi Judy, > > I like your "belt & suspenders" approach. Never give MURPHY a chance to > do his dirty work. > > I used a ball clevis pin for all the years I owned the M15 and never had > a problem; but it's better to be safe than sorry. > > Connie, the boat-less sailor in Dallas. > >> Hi Dave, >> >> I have used a solid body push pin at the bottome of the forestay for decades, but I "mouse" it with thin line used as a lanyard to hold the pin on the toggle. The mousing gets wrapped with rigging tape. To remove the pin, I have to cut through the rigging tape with my knife to undo the mousing/lashing. >> >> So far, so good..... >> >> Judy >> >> >> >> Judy Blumhorst >> Hyde Sails of Northern California >> www.judybsails.com >> judy(a)judybsails.com >> >> cell: 925.208.1692 >> fax: 925.820.2327 >> skype: judith.blumhorst >> www.HydeSails.com >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: David Grah via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:18 PM >> Subject: M_Boats: A Lesson >> >> >> I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. >> >> I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. >> >> >> I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group that said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. >> >> >> After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a bit from time to time. >> >> At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. >> >> I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the fore stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of the fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put the pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it should work fine. >> >> As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a safety clip. >> >> They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it has taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to connect the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! >> >> >> David Grah >> Bishop California >> Montgomery 15 - Sky > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 14:32:07 -0500 > From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> > To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: M_Boats: Forestay attachment > Message-ID: > <CA+TbpAVkVr6vyaZcJFBObekynuuFhA0vhODZ4uSTZfOVRmdUug(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I have used a 3 inch snap shackle on the forestay. It is easy to get the > opened jaw through the shackle mounted on the stemhead fitting and by > closing the jaw I tension the forestay. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 13:03:53 -0700 > From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: Forestay attachment > Message-ID: <FC94F28DBD0643FF91D5650A7FF235C5@jerryws10> > Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="utf-8"; > reply-type="original" > > Great idea! > > jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> > To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" > <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2014 12:32 PM > Subject: M_Boats: Forestay attachment > > >> I have used a 3 inch snap shackle on the forestay. It is easy to get the >> opened jaw through the shackle mounted on the stemhead fitting and by >> closing the jaw I tension the forestay. >> > > -- > I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. > SPAMfighter has removed 12313 of my spam emails to date. > Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len > > Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 13:08:26 -0700 > From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> > To: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com>, For and about > Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: A Lesson > Message-ID: <40AE1D18-5B01-4958-AEBA-9F6375173656(a)gte.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 > > I use a quick-release pin on my M17 headstay-furler, and on my Potter 14 headstay and shrouds, and have had no backing-out problem (in the case of the Potter, for 35 years). However, on the Potter I recently discovered that the internal mechanism eventually wears out and keeps them from holding, so I had to replace all three. On new ones, I can?t back them out regardless of how hard I pull and change the stay tennsion. One has to be very careful that the fitting receiving the pin is not slightly oversize to start with, and I?m betting that the hole will wear larger with heavy use. In any case, on the ocean I would use some wraps of duct tape just in from the ball, or some thread with a constrictor knot. Of course, most quick pins have a hold for attaching a lanyard so the pin won?t get lost. > > Tom > > > On Aug 31, 2014, at 11:39 AM, Judith Blumhorst, DC <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> wrote: > >> Hi Dave, >> >> I have used a solid body push pin at the bottome of the forestay for decades, but I "mouse" it with thin line used as a lanyard to hold the pin on the toggle. The mousing gets wrapped with rigging tape. To remove the pin, I have to cut through the rigging tape with my knife to undo the mousing/lashing. >> >> So far, so good..... >> >> Judy >> >> >> >> Judy Blumhorst >> Hyde Sails of Northern California >> www.judybsails.com >> judy(a)judybsails.com >> >> cell: 925.208.1692 >> fax: 925.820.2327 >> skype: judith.blumhorst >> www.HydeSails.com >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: David Grah via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:18 PM >> Subject: M_Boats: A Lesson >> >> >> I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. >> >> I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. >> >> >> I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group that said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. >> >> >> After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a bit from time to time. >> >> At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. >> >> I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the fore stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of the fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put the pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it should work fine. >> >> As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a safety clip. >> >> They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it has taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to connect the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! >> >> >> David Grah >> Bishop California >> Montgomery 15 - Sky > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 18:03:50 -0400 > From: Michael Murphy <mikeandpaula48(a)gmail.com> > To: jake horine <smartypart(a)yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery > Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject) > Message-ID: > <CAE9+wJOEHdS3yjc5WBByDWa3MnYpV2MNrcPj2AfML8mZoph9nw(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I sailed Flying Scotts at least twice a month for about 3 years. It's a > fast boat; can be jiffy reefed for higher winds. Not exactly suitable for > single-handed sailing but could be done in mild weather if you changed the > sheeting arrangements. You can also set it up for a spinnaker. > > The few times we trailered boats raising the mast was not as easy as the > M-15 or M-17 mast. > > It's a dream in sheltered waters (rivers and lakes) for 2 people. Carries > 4 adults easily. Although the older capacity tabs said it could carry 6, > that is a stretch IMO unless 2 are kids. I also sailed a factory restored > boat several times. The boat looked good and handled well. > > You can occasionally come across Flying Scott racing groups. There used to > be one in the Beaufort NC area but I don't know how active they are at this > time. > > In summary, I think the Scott is a good stable boat that's easy and safe > to sail. > > Cheers, Mike M > > > On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 10:44 AM, jake horine via montgomery_boats < > montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: > >> I realize that this is a Montgomery site, but i thought i might be able to >> enlist some of your knowledge on another boat. I have a friend who has just >> recently started sailing and is interested in purchasing Flying Scot 19. >> Has anyone in the group had any experience with this boat? Any comments or >> advise would be appreciated. Cheers >> Jake Horine >> 1977 Montgomery 17 >> A-Koo-De-a >> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 15:33:01 -0700 > From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp(a)q.com> > To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: M_Boats: : M-15 forestay device > Message-ID: <3E2A798F52ED4206AE2DBB7CC8B5EE53@STEVEEW> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > These photos show the device I use on my M-15 forestay in place of a turnbuckle. It allows slack when open, but puts adequate tension on the forestay when closed, and locked. I bought it at a marine supply store, cost about the same as a turnbuckle. > Steve > M-15 # 335 > > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: > M-15 forestay device 002 > M-15 forestay device 003 > > Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. >

4 3

Re: M_Boats: Forestay attachment montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 138, Issue 16
by Keith R. Martin 03 Sep '14

03 Sep '14

While I have only had my M17 for about a year, I agree with Neil and Tyler with regard to risk versus benefit. Murphy has a habit of appearing at the worst possible times. I found you can make the clevis rings work much more quickly and easily by using the largest non-split clevis rings that will fit in the ring hole. By non-split I mean the type that have a large spiral lead into the centre. For a 1/4" clevis pin this is usually a 1 inch or 7/8 inch diameter clevis ring. The larger size makes them very easy to handle and they go on and come off literally in a couple of seconds... Keith *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* On 2 September 2014 18:36, Neil Dorf <ndorf(a)surfbest.net> wrote: > Hi all, > > just returned from some great sailing on Humboldt Bay. Will post a few > pics on the trailersailor forum when I get a minute. Daniel: Sorry you > couldn't bring Kestrel up to join us. I was a blast. Quick wave as I > trailered down 101 past Santa Rosa today. > > My 2 cents on the the pin for the forestay is this: When considering risk > in general, I look at two factors: > > A) How likely, on a numerical scale, is a bad outcome (pin comes out, > forestay swings loose, mast comes crashing down) likely to happen? > B) IF that bad outcome were to happen, how severe, on the same numerical > scale, would the outcome be? > > I you go with a 1-5 rating, I would put the first item at a "1" or "2", > meaning not too likely under reasonable conditions; especially with the > sensible precautions Judy B. suggests. > > However, for (B), I would peg at a "5", meaning not too cool. Especially > in rough conditions. Mast could maybe rip off the tabernacle, worse, fall > upon and severly injure skipper or crew. (B) alone--no matter how low you > rate (A), is sufficient for me to forego any thoughts of deviating from the > clevis pin and split ring approach. > > Just sayin' > > By the way, and not to veer too far from the subject, but not having a > permanently mounted transom / swim ladder, in my estimation, would have > similar A/B ratings. Actually maybe (A) would be three, depending upon how > "flat" (or not) you like to sail. > > If I forgot to put up my vang, maybe I would be very likely to regret it > and have to deal with more twist than I would prefer. (a 4 or 5) but the > severity, except for maybe racing, would be "1" (probably not going to > capsize, crash, or anyone get injured due to not having it rigged). > > Don't take risks when the stakes applicable to safety are high. > > fair winds, > > Neil > '85 M15 "TwoCan", Northern Cal. > > On 8/31/2014 3:33 PM, montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com wrote: > >> Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to >> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ >> montgomery_boats >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: A Lesson (Judith Blumhorst, DC) >> 2. Re: A Lesson (Conbert Benneck) >> 3. Re: A Lesson (Mitch Carnes) >> 4. Forestay attachment (Thomas Buzzi) >> 5. Re: Forestay attachment (jerry montgomery) >> 6. Re: A Lesson (Tom Jenkins) >> 7. Re: (no subject) (Michael Murphy) >> 8. : M-15 forestay device (stevetrapp) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 11:39:22 -0700 >> From: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> >> To: David Grah <d_b_grah(a)yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery >> Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: A Lesson >> Message-ID: >> <1409510362.67843.YahooMailNeo(a)web121602.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> Hi Dave, >> >> I have used a solid body push pin at the bottome of the forestay for >> decades, but I "mouse" it with thin line used as a lanyard to hold the pin >> on the toggle. The mousing gets wrapped with rigging tape. To remove the >> pin, I have to cut through the rigging tape with my knife to undo the >> mousing/lashing. >> >> So far, so good..... >> >> Judy >> >> >> >> Judy Blumhorst >> Hyde Sails of Northern California >> www.judybsails.com >> judy(a)judybsails.com >> cell: 925.208.1692 >> fax: 925.820.2327 >> skype: judith.blumhorst >> www.HydeSails.com >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: David Grah via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman. >> xmission.com> >> To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman. >> xmission.com> >> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:18 PM >> Subject: M_Boats: A Lesson >> >> I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our >> Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz >> Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta >> and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the >> Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of >> these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. >> >> I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the >> mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the >> five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple >> push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, >> when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be >> inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay >> which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up >> with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy >> on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. >> >> >> I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group that >> said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a >> Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often >> have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has >> worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never >> changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. >> >> >> After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to >> Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for >> a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down >> the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an >> hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles >> per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially >> unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the >> jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The >> combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a >> bit from time to time. >> >> At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had >> disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push >> pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay >> that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them >> back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. >> The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. >> >> I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the fore >> stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of the >> fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put the >> pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I >> decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it >> should work fine. >> >> As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good >> wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to >> enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got >> switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore >> stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) >> around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from >> the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this >> time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a >> safety clip. >> >> They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it has >> taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to connect >> the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! >> >> >> David Grah >> Bishop California >> Montgomery 15 - Sky >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 13:51:57 -0500 >> From: Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com> >> To: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com>, For and about >> Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: A Lesson >> Message-ID: <54036ECD.70401(a)gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> On 31-Aug-14 1:39 PM, Judith Blumhorst, DC wrote: >> >> Hi Judy, >> >> I like your "belt & suspenders" approach. Never give MURPHY a chance to >> do his dirty work. >> >> I used a ball clevis pin for all the years I owned the M15 and never had >> a problem; but it's better to be safe than sorry. >> >> Connie, the boat-less sailor in Dallas. >> >>> Hi Dave, >>> >>> I have used a solid body push pin at the bottome of the forestay for >>> decades, but I "mouse" it with thin line used as a lanyard to hold the pin >>> on the toggle. The mousing gets wrapped with rigging tape. To remove the >>> pin, I have to cut through the rigging tape with my knife to undo the >>> mousing/lashing. >>> >>> So far, so good..... >>> >>> Judy >>> >>> >>> >>> Judy Blumhorst >>> Hyde Sails of Northern California >>> www.judybsails.com >>> judy(a)judybsails.com >>> cell: 925.208.1692 >>> fax: 925.820.2327 >>> skype: judith.blumhorst >>> www.HydeSails.com >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: David Grah via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman. >>> xmission.com> >>> To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman. >>> xmission.com> >>> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:18 PM >>> Subject: M_Boats: A Lesson >>> >>> I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our >>> Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz >>> Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta >>> and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the >>> Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of >>> these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. >>> >>> I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the >>> mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the >>> five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple >>> push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, >>> when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be >>> inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay >>> which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up >>> with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy >>> on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. >>> >>> >>> I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group >>> that said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a >>> Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often >>> have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has >>> worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never >>> changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. >>> >>> >>> After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to >>> Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for >>> a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down >>> the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an >>> hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles >>> per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially >>> unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the >>> jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The >>> combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a >>> bit from time to time. >>> >>> At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had >>> disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push >>> pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay >>> that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them >>> back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. >>> The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. >>> >>> I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the >>> fore stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of >>> the fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put >>> the pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I >>> decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it >>> should work fine. >>> >>> As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good >>> wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to >>> enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got >>> switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore >>> stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) >>> around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from >>> the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this >>> time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a >>> safety clip. >>> >>> They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it >>> has taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to >>> connect the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! >>> >>> >>> David Grah >>> Bishop California >>> Montgomery 15 - Sky >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 12:22:24 -0700 >> From: Mitch Carnes <mitch_carnes(a)sbcglobal.net> >> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >> <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com>, "Judith Blumhorst, DC" >> <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: A Lesson >> Message-ID: >> <1409512944.23068.YahooMailNeo(a)web181605.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >> I use a Harken "Toggle Pin" which has a spring tension "T" on the end >> which has served me well for years. The only potential for failure I see is >> the small pin that holds the Toggle in place, which takes a constant salt >> water bath on the bow. >> Mitch >> >> >> On Sunday, August 31, 2014 11:52 AM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck(a)gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> >> On 31-Aug-14 1:39 PM, Judith Blumhorst, DC wrote: >> >> Hi Judy, >> >> I like your "belt & suspenders" approach. Never give MURPHY a chance to >> do his dirty work. >> >> I used a ball clevis pin for all the years I owned the M15 and never had >> a problem; but it's better to be safe than sorry. >> >> Connie, the boat-less sailor in Dallas. >> >> Hi Dave, >>> >>> I have used a solid body push pin at the bottome of the forestay for >>> decades, but I "mouse" it with thin line used as a lanyard to hold the pin >>> on the toggle. The mousing gets wrapped with rigging tape. To remove the >>> pin, I have to cut through the rigging tape with my knife to undo the >>> mousing/lashing. >>> >>> So far, so good..... >>> >>> Judy >>> >>> >>> >>> Judy Blumhorst >>> Hyde Sails of Northern California >>> www.judybsails.com >>> judy(a)judybsails.com >>> cell: 925.208.1692 >>> fax: 925.820.2327 >>> skype: judith.blumhorst >>> www.HydeSails.com >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: David Grah via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman. >>> xmission.com> >>> To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman. >>> xmission.com> >>> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:18 PM >>> Subject: M_Boats: A Lesson >>> >>> I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our >>> Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz >>> Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta >>> and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the >>> Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of >>> these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. >>> >>> I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the >>> mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the >>> five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple >>> push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, >>> when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be >>> inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay >>> which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up >>> with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy >>> on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. >>> >>> >>> I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group >>> that said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a >>> Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often >>> have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has >>> worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never >>> changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. >>> >>> >>> After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to >>> Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for >>> a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down >>> the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an >>> hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles >>> per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially >>> unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the >>> jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The >>> combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a >>> bit from time to time. >>> >>> At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had >>> disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push >>> pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay >>> that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them >>> back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. >>> The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. >>> >>> I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the >>> fore stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of >>> the fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put >>> the pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I >>> decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it >>> should work fine. >>> >>> As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good >>> wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to >>> enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got >>> switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore >>> stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) >>> around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from >>> the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this >>> time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a >>> safety clip. >>> >>> They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it >>> has taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to >>> connect the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! >>> >>> >>> David Grah >>> Bishop California >>> Montgomery 15 - Sky >>> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 14:32:07 -0500 >> From: Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> >> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats >> <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: M_Boats: Forestay attachment >> Message-ID: >> <CA+TbpAVkVr6vyaZcJFBObekynuuFhA0vhODZ4uSTZfOVRmdUug(a)mail.gmail. >> com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> I have used a 3 inch snap shackle on the forestay. It is easy to get the >> opened jaw through the shackle mounted on the stemhead fitting and by >> closing the jaw I tension the forestay. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 13:03:53 -0700 >> From: "jerry montgomery" <jerry(a)jerrymontgomery.org> >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" >> <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Forestay attachment >> Message-ID: <FC94F28DBD0643FF91D5650A7FF235C5@jerryws10> >> Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"; charset="utf-8"; >> reply-type="original" >> >> Great idea! >> >> jerry >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi(a)gmail.com> >> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" >> <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2014 12:32 PM >> Subject: M_Boats: Forestay attachment >> >> >> I have used a 3 inch snap shackle on the forestay. It is easy to get the >>> opened jaw through the shackle mounted on the stemhead fitting and by >>> closing the jaw I tension the forestay. >>> >>> >> -- >> I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. >> SPAMfighter has removed 12313 of my spam emails to date. >> Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len >> >> Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/ >> SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 6 >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 13:08:26 -0700 >> From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk(a)gte.net> >> To: "Judith Blumhorst, DC" <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com>, For and about >> Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: A Lesson >> Message-ID: <40AE1D18-5B01-4958-AEBA-9F6375173656(a)gte.net> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 >> >> I use a quick-release pin on my M17 headstay-furler, and on my Potter 14 >> headstay and shrouds, and have had no backing-out problem (in the case of >> the Potter, for 35 years). However, on the Potter I recently discovered >> that the internal mechanism eventually wears out and keeps them from >> holding, so I had to replace all three. On new ones, I can?t back them out >> regardless of how hard I pull and change the stay tennsion. One has to be >> very careful that the fitting receiving the pin is not slightly oversize to >> start with, and I?m betting that the hole will wear larger with heavy use. >> In any case, on the ocean I would use some wraps of duct tape just in from >> the ball, or some thread with a constrictor knot. Of course, most quick >> pins have a hold for attaching a lanyard so the pin won?t get lost. >> >> Tom >> >> >> On Aug 31, 2014, at 11:39 AM, Judith Blumhorst, DC <drjudyb(a)blumhorst.com> >> wrote: >> >> Hi Dave, >>> >>> I have used a solid body push pin at the bottome of the forestay for >>> decades, but I "mouse" it with thin line used as a lanyard to hold the pin >>> on the toggle. The mousing gets wrapped with rigging tape. To remove the >>> pin, I have to cut through the rigging tape with my knife to undo the >>> mousing/lashing. >>> >>> So far, so good..... >>> >>> Judy >>> >>> >>> >>> Judy Blumhorst >>> Hyde Sails of Northern California >>> www.judybsails.com >>> judy(a)judybsails.com >>> >>> cell: 925.208.1692 >>> fax: 925.820.2327 >>> skype: judith.blumhorst >>> www.HydeSails.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ________________________________ >>> From: David Grah via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman. >>> xmission.com> >>> To: For and About Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman. >>> xmission.com> >>> Sent: Saturday, August 30, 2014 2:18 PM >>> Subject: M_Boats: A Lesson >>> >>> >>> I had a couple nice overnight trips out of the area this summer on our >>> Montgomery 15. The first was with my son from Santa Barbara to Santa Cruz >>> Island for a couple of nights and the second was in the California Delta >>> and the San Francisco Bay. I have posted short videos of both trips to the >>> Facebook Montgomery page. I had the same lesson taught to me on each of >>> these trips - one that I admit I first learned from this group. >>> >>> I leave the shrouds always connected on the boat so that to put up the >>> mast you just have to push it up and connect the fore stay. For most of the >>> five years I have had the boat I have connected the fore stay with a simple >>> push pin. What I mean by a push pin is a pin with a button at one end that, >>> when pushed, allows a little ball to retract into the pin so it can be >>> inserted or removed. The pin makes it really easy to connect the fore stay >>> which I have liked because my method involves me just holding the mast up >>> with tension on the fore stay while I connect the fore stay to the thingy >>> on the bow. The process of getting up the mast goes very quickly this way. >>> >>> >>> I think it was Dave Scobie responding to another member of the group >>> that said a push pin was not a secure way to connect the fore stay on a >>> Montgomery 15, but maybe he was talking about all of our boats. I often >>> have thought about Dave's advice but have always found the push pin has >>> worked great so, although appreciated the advice (the lesson), never >>> changed to a different method of attaching the fore stay. Until recently. >>> >>> >>> After our first night on Santa Cruz island we motored up the coast to >>> Painted Cave, looked around there, started back, and stopped to snorkel for >>> a while. After the stop, the wind picked up so we had a nice sail back down >>> the coast with the west wind mostly behind us as we moved east. After an >>> hour or so the wind picked up nicely into the mid or higher teens of miles >>> per hour. With the wind behind the boat, the fore stay was essentially >>> unloaded most of the time and a little slack. With the wind picking up the >>> jib would flap from time to time and the waves also got bigger. The >>> combination of the flapping jib and the waves would shake the rig around a >>> bit from time to time. >>> >>> At one point I was sorry to see the bottom of the fore stay had >>> disconnected from the bow. I had a bit of a tense time replacing the push >>> pin with a spare. The two legs of the thingy at the bottom of fore stay >>> that the pin goes through had been spread a tiny bit so I squeezed them >>> back together and put the spare pin in without having the rig come down. >>> The next day I found the old pin laying against the toe rail. >>> >>> I remembered the "lesson" from this group about the push pin for the >>> fore stay, but figured from the way the legs of the thingy at the bottom of >>> the fore stay were spread, that the problem was probably that I hadn't put >>> the pin all the way through when I had assembled the boat the day before. I >>> decided to think about it some more, but the push pin still seemed like it >>> should work fine. >>> >>> As could be expected, our first day on the San Francisco Bay had good >>> wind, in the afternoon as we headed east in Racoon Straight and started to >>> enter Ayala Cove for the night, the wind, that was mostly behind us, got >>> switchy and gusty as we got in the wind shadow of Angel Island. The fore >>> stay was slack, there were waves, and the rig was gotten shook (shaken?) >>> around. Guess what happened? Sure enough, the fore stay disconnected from >>> the thingy on the bow again. The rig was nice enough not come down this >>> time too and I replaced the now-missing push pin with a regular pin with a >>> safety clip. >>> >>> They say fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me but it >>> has taken me three times to learn that a push pin is not a good way to >>> connect the fore stay to the bow on a Montgomery 15! >>> >>> >>> David Grah >>> Bishop California >>> Montgomery 15 - Sky >>> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 7 >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 18:03:50 -0400 >> From: Michael Murphy <mikeandpaula48(a)gmail.com> >> To: jake horine <smartypart(a)yahoo.com>, For and about Montgomery >> Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: Re: M_Boats: (no subject) >> Message-ID: >> <CAE9+wJOEHdS3yjc5WBByDWa3MnYpV2MNrcPj2AfML8mZoph9nw(a)mail.gmail. >> com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> I sailed Flying Scotts at least twice a month for about 3 years. It's >> a >> fast boat; can be jiffy reefed for higher winds. Not exactly suitable for >> single-handed sailing but could be done in mild weather if you changed the >> sheeting arrangements. You can also set it up for a spinnaker. >> >> The few times we trailered boats raising the mast was not as easy as >> the >> M-15 or M-17 mast. >> >> It's a dream in sheltered waters (rivers and lakes) for 2 people. Carries >> 4 adults easily. Although the older capacity tabs said it could carry 6, >> that is a stretch IMO unless 2 are kids. I also sailed a factory restored >> boat several times. The boat looked good and handled well. >> >> You can occasionally come across Flying Scott racing groups. There used >> to >> be one in the Beaufort NC area but I don't know how active they are at >> this >> time. >> >> In summary, I think the Scott is a good stable boat that's easy and safe >> to sail. >> >> Cheers, Mike M >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 31, 2014 at 10:44 AM, jake horine via montgomery_boats < >> montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> wrote: >> >> I realize that this is a Montgomery site, but i thought i might be able >>> to >>> enlist some of your knowledge on another boat. I have a friend who has >>> just >>> recently started sailing and is interested in purchasing Flying Scot 19. >>> Has anyone in the group had any experience with this boat? Any comments >>> or >>> advise would be appreciated. Cheers >>> Jake Horine >>> 1977 Montgomery 17 >>> A-Koo-De-a >>> >>> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 8 >> Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2014 15:33:01 -0700 >> From: "stevetrapp" <stevetrapp(a)q.com> >> To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> >> Subject: M_Boats: : M-15 forestay device >> Message-ID: <3E2A798F52ED4206AE2DBB7CC8B5EE53@STEVEEW> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >> >> These photos show the device I use on my M-15 forestay in place of a >> turnbuckle. It allows slack when open, but puts adequate tension on the >> forestay when closed, and locked. I bought it at a marine supply store, >> cost about the same as a turnbuckle. >> Steve >> M-15 # 335 >> >> The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link >> attachments: >> M-15 forestay device 002 >> M-15 forestay device 003 >> >> Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent >> sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail >> security settings to determine how attachments are handled. >>

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