February 2008 - montgomery_boats - mailman.xmission.com

Montgomery Sailboats are in high demand
by Bob Eeg 15 Jul '13

15 Jul '13

And are built with top-notch quality. There is nothing in the market place faster, better built and as good looking as a Montgomery Sailboat. I don't run a factory; I run a very small boatshop. I built to order on a boat by boat basis. I do a lot of custom work when asked. Bronze ports, Stainless ports, extra ballast, Custom electrical systems, Idasailor rudders, anchoring packages..etc. This work is labor intensive. Quality takes time. I have 3 employees. These people are highly experienced in Laminating, construction, assembly and finish. Woodworking and other skills result in a absolutely beautiful sailing vessel. I use the best sails the best rigging, the best custom stainless fasteners..and yes....(laughing) the best cushions. This last 15 months have been EXTREMELY busy; hiring new help was impossible because all the good people are gone. We had a tremendous BACKLOG and we caught a break only when Pacific Seacraft employees (let go) began filtering into our shop looking for work. We did add some additional crew in the Laminating Shop and because of that we are caught up. Pacific Seacrafts Bankruptcy was good for us. Bad for the dozens of good people who are out of work. The FIRST question of anyone buying a new boat should be 'How is the construction quality'? First and foremost that is the most important issue. I can say that everyone has experienced and will continue to experience a BACKLOG of orders; especially if the boat is as popular as a Montgomery Sailboat. When we had an 8 month backlog and I actually turned down 2 M_17 orders so we could catch our breath. It is impossible to work any harder or any faster. Now that were caught up we can get back to our normal 50-70 days (depending on model and options). Also custom work really adds to the production time. One beautiful M_17 we did we cut the V berth out of and installed an oval bulkhead, custom shelves and inline potti area; with 4 bronze ports she is an amazing boat, but custom work takes time. Expect delays if you go radical on the interior. (I think BONES has a photo of that one...) We are really one of the only builders that entertain changes and options to satisfy the customer. This new Passagemaker M_17 were building (and installing a windvane on tomorrow) is going to be amazing. Other actual boat factories that produce boats for DEALERS (that Tod mentioned) like Precision and Compac are built on Factory Production lines for a large Dealership Network. Dealers who have these boats in stock can supply them right away. But ask for major changes on a future production boat and the wait will be many months. International Marine builds boats faster with more employees but those boats are piss poor sailers (upwind) and many arrive with a list of problems that are pathetic. That's not me. So try not to focus on the TIME factor. We can only go so fast. Hiring additional help is not an option because by the time you train someone the season gets slow and you have to lay them off. I can't do that. I have people that have been with me for 20 years; I keep us small and efficient on purpose. So be surprised if we hit the delivery time; which we do quite often. Be a little disappointed when we miss it; but get over it when you see your boat. Dozens of you know me; you've arrived to see me rig your boat, pack you up and shake your hand. (Heck...Gary Hyde even brought me a bottle of wine..!..Thanks Gary.!) One man bought a new M_15 from us and a new M_17 a year later.! The C word...Cushions. I inspect everyboat before it leaves for home. Scott's boat was leaving for the Bay Area early Friday morning; I was at the boatshop at 10:30 PM Thursday night, sleeping at the picnic table just inside the door, waiting for the cushion guy to arrive with the (late) promised cushions. He drove up, woke me up and I watched as he stacked them on the deck. We left. My man arrived at 3AM and hooked up the boat and slid the cushions inside the boat. I should have loaded them myself then I would have noticed they looked good but didn't have the required 'Squeeze' factor. Let's move on, shall we....? Fair winds Bob Eeg (949) 489-8227 Boat Builder

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Re: M17 heavy weather capabilities
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 07 May '08

07 May '08

I'd have to second Gary's observations about the M17 hatch. I'm a pretty big boy and honestly I never tried it. My 17 had the backwards opening front hatch, so even if you fit, the hatch lid would prevent you from leaning forward. In this photo you can see the hinges are on the front of the hatch and that there's no way you'd be able to work around it to deal with the luff of the jib. _http://msogphotosite.com/MSOG/b17thomps/b17thomps7.jpg_ (http://msogphotosite.com/MSOG/b17thomps/b17thomps7.jpg) On later versions and I believe the new M17's that Bob builds the hatch opens from the front... Hey Gary H.! Doesn't your hatch open from the front??? Could you manage a headsail change through it??? (http://msogphotosite.com/MSOG/b17thomps/b17thomps7.jpg) Lately, I have been experimenting for the first time ever (for me) with a simple downhaul attached to the jib/genoa head. Holly cow, why I never did this before is beyond me. I don't mind going forward and pulling a sail down when someone's on the helm but when singlehanding it's a pain. When I'm alone I try to make sure I don't overcanvass for the conditions, but if I do, now I can at least get the sail down on the deck and secure before I ever leave the relative safety of the cockpit. It also allows me to hank on a jib at the dock , and attach the halyard without worry that the halyard is going to foul something by swinging around slack before I'm ready to raise it. I just hook up the downhaul and tension the halyard. I know, I know, roller furling would solve that issue. Someday I may go back to a furler, but for now I'm happy with hank-ons. Sean **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

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re: Kendall with more info
by Steve R. 18 Apr '08

18 Apr '08

Kendall, Good luck with your project. I am sure everything will turn out well. One thing to be concerned about in pressure washing the cockpit is the only drain is the opening for the centerboard pendant. You may spend more time clearing debris from the drain than washing. With the CB removed it should go better. If I were in you situation I would think about plugging the drain somehow and periodically bailing with a bucket. After pressure washing the fiberglass I would suggest wiping down with acetone. Just make sure you have some ventilation, especially if you will be on the interior. To each his own, but I have removed the plywood that covers the porta-potti and the cushion insert that goes on top of the plywood. I suggest you finish everything else and go sailing to see if you need those or can live without them. The plywood for the hatch boards is 3/8 inches thick, IIRC. A few years ago Tod M., Bill W. and I split a 4' x 8' sheet of teak faced ply from Boulter Plywood in Mass. They rough cut the sheet into four small pieces for each of us, which gave us enough for a spare. I think since Bill and I had a 15 our pieces were 30" wide and the ones for Tod's 17 were 36". The cost of cutting was not much and it really saved on shipping. They allowed us to pay separately and shipped directly to us. Maybe someone would like to split a sheet with you. I can trace the patterns out for my hatch boards but it may be a few weeks before I can get around to it. Let us know how everything turns out. steve Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY

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Typical Internet Stuff
by Bill Lamica 29 Feb '08

29 Feb '08

Hi All, Well, I still have not heard back from the server people and magically, the site is up once more. Not too bad if you consider this is the first time I've had server trouble in the four plus years I have used them. Anyway, thanks for your patience. Bill

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Forbidden 403/404 error...
by Nebwest2＠aol.com 29 Feb '08

29 Feb '08

Maybe those Potter Pirates are messing with us! **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du… 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

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Forbidden 403/404 error...
by Bill Lamica 29 Feb '08

29 Feb '08

Hi All, I'm working on it: I have checked the mechanical aspect of the Photo Site and that appears normal. Checked and found lots of error logs, showing the same 404 / 403 error, that we all are getting. And, the error logs began this morning. Lastly, I've contacted the server to see what their problem is. I have not heard back yet. Usually, the worst case is I have to reload the entire site. If that is what is directed, they will erase the information stored on their servers (our website) before I can begin and, I'm here to do that right away. On the other hand... best case is someone hits a reset button on one of their servers:-} If I hear from them this afternoon, It will be available in the morning. Patience, we are waiting on them. Bill Me... I think it's a government plot

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Re: M_Boats: wet lockers
by JDavies104＠aol.com 28 Feb '08

28 Feb '08

As a new M-17 single-handing sailor planning some Chesapeake Bay sailing this season, I'd also be interested in experiences of M-17 sailors in unexpected squalls, etc. Does a knock-down in an M-17 present a danger of swamping? Or (assuming the lockers are secure) does it reliably self-right? Any exciting sea-stories from the old hands? Thanks Rick M-17 #633 Lynne L ************** Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du…)

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M17 foam floatation
by brian gilbert 27 Feb '08

27 Feb '08

Hi folks: I have a '78 M17... no foam floatation. Because of the displacement (appx 1550 lbs, plus, maybe, 450 lbs for a battery, motor, my not-so-svelte self, and misc gear), it would require a large amount of foam. How much? ( I'm doing this from memory, so I might not get it right, but... ) Water weighs about 64 lbs per cubic foot, so dividing 2000/64= 31 cubic feet of foam, BUT... that's the amount of foam needed to float her on the design waterline. If you filled the boat with foam, it'd probably come to a foot above the cabin sole. You don't need that much foam to float a swamped boat, but I believe conventional practice is to use anywhere from 50-70% of that number. (One of my books says that reductions of 30-70 percent are possible.) So you'd still need 15 cu feet at minimum, and it would have to be distributed correctly... if you stuck it all under the V-berth, the boat might float, but it also might roll over with just the bow above water... not a good situation in a storm. That's why most larger, heavier boats don't have built-in floatation... it usually requires too much interior space to be practical. I suppose it would be possible to do it on a 17, 'cause there's plenty of dead space in the after end and some under the V-berth, but it would take a lot of space. And getting the calculation wrong might mean the difference in just barely floating above water and sinking to the bottom VERY slowly. Best BG -- Brian Gilbert Author, Fix It And Sail, The Complete Trailer-Sailor Marine Media 3404 Hartford Dr Chattanooga, TN 37415 www.sailingsmall.com From: montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com Reply-To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 00:25:06 +0000 To: montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 60, Issue 24 Send montgomery_boats mailing list submissions to montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to montgomery_boats-request(a)mailman.xmission.com You can reach the person managing the list at montgomery_boats-owner(a)mailman.xmission.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of montgomery_boats digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Havasu Winter 2008 Event (Steve R.) 2. Re: wet lockers (William Larson) 3. Re: wet lockers (JDavies104(a)aol.com) 4. Re: wet lockers (Gary M Hyde) 5. Re: wet lockers (Gary M Hyde) 6. Interior of an M15 (W David Scobie) 7. Re: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 60, Issue 23 (Ben Smith) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:35:29 -0800 From: "Steve R." <stever707(a)mail.saabnet.com> Subject: M_Boats: Havasu Winter 2008 Event To: " For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Cc: Sean <Nebwest2(a)aol.com> Message-ID: <20080226163529.57C299AA(a)resin17.mta.everyone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" We are back home and had a wonderful time on Lake Havasu. It was nice to meet the M-boaters, P-boaters and other boaters. I regret that some were not able to come and some could not get out on the water. You were missed. The weather was pleasant, although with little wind Saturday, and often times there were no other boats in sight. Sean and Jo were great hosts. Thanks for shuttling everyone around and organizing the event. steve Steve R. M-15 #119 Lexington, KY ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 16:37:47 -0800 (PST) From: William Larson <deuce3window(a)sbcglobal.net> Subject: Re: M_Boats: wet lockers To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <688485.75788.qm(a)web82908.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Dave: You're right on the M17 - no foam floatation. I have tried on occasion to bury the lee rail on a beam reach without success. Perhaps no need for the foam flotation in that it's stiffer than M15? Maybe some of our "seasoned" skippers can chime in on this one. Bill Larson M17 #632 W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> wrote: ben: the M15 has 'positive flotation' in the form of foam blocks installed at the factory. the two foam locations are: under the cockpit floor, in the bow (in a screwed shut locker). the hull is solid fiberglass - not a floating sandwich like a 'whaler. so without the foam the M15 would sink. i have no idea what the 'lift potential' is for a swamped M15. thing is ... i've never read that an M15 has been swamped - neither by accident or by design. i don't believe the M17 has positive flotation. i'll be corrected if wrong ;o)- in a short bit i'm going to post some interior shots of my M15. this will show the foam locations. the link will be shared on this email list. dave scobie M15 #288, not yet named Ben Smith wrote: So forgive me on the confusion but I don't yet own a Montgomery. Are these boats made with foam in them to give them buoyancy even if knocked down (like a Boston Whaler)? What is the extent of a Montgomery's reserve buoyancy, what is installed at the factory? Thanks, Ben --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:44:04 EST From: JDavies104(a)aol.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: wet lockers To: deuce3window(a)sbcglobal.net, montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <c8c.1c0690db.34f60c54(a)aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" As a new M-17 single-handing sailor planning some Chesapeake Bay sailing this season, I'd also be interested in experiences of M-17 sailors in unexpected squalls, etc. Does a knock-down in an M-17 present a danger of swamping? Or (assuming the lockers are secure) does it reliably self-right? Any exciting sea-stories from the old hands? Thanks Rick M-17 #633 Lynne L ************** Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du ffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:35:33 -0800 From: Gary M Hyde <gmhyde1(a)mac.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: wet lockers To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <52269559-BC98-4B67-ABE8-A4CD6A886A6F(a)mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Dave: I think you are right. The M15 is required to have floatation, about 10 cubic feet if I remember what Jerry emailed me once. The M17 is in a larger class and isn't required to have it. --Gary On Feb 26, 2008, at 4:11 PM, W David Scobie wrote: > ben: > > the M15 has 'positive flotation' in the form of foam blocks > installed at the factory. the two foam locations are: under the > cockpit floor, in the bow (in a screwed shut locker). > > the hull is solid fiberglass - not a floating sandwich like a > 'whaler. so without the foam the M15 would sink. i have no idea > what the 'lift potential' is for a swamped M15. thing is ... i've > never read that an M15 has been swamped - neither by accident or by > design. > > i don't believe the M17 has positive flotation. i'll be corrected > if wrong ;o)- > > in a short bit i'm going to post some interior shots of my M15. > this will show the foam locations. the link will be shared on this > email list. > > > dave scobie > M15 #288, not yet named > > > Ben Smith <productiongreatscott(a)hotmail.com> wrote: > > So forgive me on the confusion but I don't yet own a Montgomery. Are > these boats made with foam in them to give them buoyancy even if > knocked down (like a Boston Whaler)? What is the extent of a > Montgomery's reserve buoyancy, what is installed at the factory? > > > Thanks, > Ben > > --------------------------------- > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! > Search. > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:40:40 -0800 From: Gary M Hyde <gmhyde1(a)mac.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: wet lockers To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <C314B6EB-F951-48FB-9694-85868E8D7744(a)mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes The second time out in my M17 when new I couldn't release the main sheet in a jibe and shipped several gallons of water over the lee gunwale and all around my buddy Vince! But not went into the cabin even though the hatch boards were not in place. Vince had a change of clothes along, so all ended well. --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 sailboat #637 'Hydeaway 2' We can't change the wind, but we can trim our sails. Sailing is a bit like "African Queening" thru life. On Feb 26, 2008, at 4:44 PM, JDavies104(a)aol.com wrote: > As a new M-17 single-handing sailor planning some Chesapeake Bay > sailing this > season, I'd also be interested in experiences of M-17 sailors in > unexpected > squalls, etc. Does a knock-down in an M-17 present a danger of > swamping? Or > (assuming the lockers are secure) does it reliably self-right? Any > exciting > sea-stories from the old hands? > > Thanks > > Rick > M-17 #633 Lynne L > > > ************** > Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on > AOL Living. > > (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du ffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598 > ) > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 22:15:35 -0800 (PST) From: W David Scobie <wdscobie(a)yahoo.com> Subject: M_Boats: Interior of an M15 To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <790616.14160.qm(a)web38613.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Monty Fans: i've put together a short video slideshow that shows the interior spaces of an M15. http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g203/spankmeairlines/M15number288/?action =view&current=6b150b28.pbr individual slideshow images may be viewed through this link - http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g203/spankmeairlines/M15number288/ NOTE - password required to view album (not the video slideshow). the password is: monty15fan the album images are not in any order (photobucket wouldn't allow me to 'organize' within an album). if you watch the slideshow you can see the approx name of each picture. in the image album you can review details about each photo. if anyone has a challenge let me know. i'll then work at getting a different format for sharing these photos. dave scobie M15 #288 - not yet named --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:25:03 +0000 From: Ben Smith <productiongreatscott(a)hotmail.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 60, Issue 23 To: <montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <BAY123-W3016C561CC273DB64B2DE0D61A0(a)phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Thanks Dave, Does anyone know if the 17s have "positive flotation" blocks installed? Thanks, Ben ben: the M15 has 'positive flotation' in the form of foam blocks installed at the factory. the two foam locations are: under the cockpit floor, in the bow (in a screwed shut locker). the hull is solid fiberglass - not a floating sandwich like a 'whaler. so without the foam the M15 would sink. i have no idea what the 'lift potential' is for a swamped M15. thing is ... i've never read that an M15 has been swamped - neither by accident or by design. i don't believe the M17 has positive flotation. i'll be corrected if wrong ;o)- in a short bit i'm going to post some interior shots of my M15. this will show the foam locations. the link will be shared on this email list. dave scobie M15 #288, not yet named Ben Smith wrote: So forgive me on the confusion but I don't yet own a Montgomery. Are these boats made with foam in them to give them buoyancy even if knocked down (like a Boston Whaler)? What is the extent of a Montgomery's reserve buoyancy, what is installed at the factory? Thanks, Ben --------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Climb to the top of the charts!?Play the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ montgomery_boats mailing list montgomery_boats(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats End of montgomery_boats Digest, Vol 60, Issue 24 ************************************************

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Re: M_Boats: Interior of an M15
by JDavies104＠aol.com 27 Feb '08

27 Feb '08

Dave, That's a great slideshow. It's amazing how much "stuff" you can store in a small space if you're well organized. I'm in the process of equipping my M-17 for at least overnight cruising, so I am also using the slides to compile a list of basic supplies that I should be carrying. Thanks, Rick ************** Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-du…)

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Interior of an M15
by John and DesAnne Hippe 27 Feb '08

27 Feb '08

Hello Dave, Thanks for the video tour. I always like seeing how others have set up their boat. John Hippe M-15 Jester

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